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children please............

i'm sure if we were all in a room together none of this debauchery would go on

and though i'm not a big fan of slapping people...........

i am very very good with my hands

spank you very much :P

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Without "malice" then it would not be a murder. The malice in a 2nd degree murder case is implied by the level of aggravated assault, aggravated child abuse, or gross negligence that would lead a reasonable person to knowingly understand at the time of their actions that those actions are likely to result in great bodily harm, or even death. The 'malice' in a 2nd degree murder is subjectively determined to have been present during the criminal act by the intentional actions of the accused.

Of course there was malice.

Recklessness is an element in 2nd degree murder in some jurisdictions, so they don't need to prove malice to convict.

Now if you don't mind, bye.

Edited by Silver Rider
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I'll be honest and say I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I've always understood spanking as involving an open-palmed hand to the seat of the pants / butt.

Even a belt to the butt becomes a "whoopin'", not a spanking.

Within that context, I don't believe it's possible to cause death to any child 2 years or older under normal conditions, i.e., 10 or so seconds of open-palmed hand meeting butt.

That's my understanding of spanking.

Can a parent escalate from spanking into a beating?

Absolutely, and that is usually criminal.

Once contact is made elsewhere, particularly the face and head, there's not a lot of wiggle room in my mind before it becomes abuse.

I've only slapped any of my 3 kids maybe a couple or 3 times between them, and even that was a restrained slap from the wrist, not an arm-swinging slap.

Punching is absolutely abuse.

Kicking, other than a single, swift, soccer-style kick to the ass for punctuation is absolutely abuse.

And even that swift kick would be reserved for 12 and up, when they are at least 100 lbs or more.

And I'm half-joking about the kick.

I've never kicked my kids, but I could envision one of my sons getting a swift kick to the ass if they pulled some bullshit stunt that I know they know better of, e.g., engaging in criminal activity, inhumane treatment of another person or animal, etc.

And a belt should never be more than just a few swats, maybe 5 max, more likely 3 or 4.

I'm also opposed to the removing of clothes when spanking or using a belt.

Whatever they are wearing at the time they commit their offense is how they get their punishment.

Now, if they happen to be in their underwear when they do something, bad day for them, although I would keep that in consideration when administering the punishment.

But making them drop their jeans so they'll really feel it is sadistic, in my opinion.

Age is a whole 'nother factor.

A baby that can't even walk should not have any kind of punishment other than words ("no-no").

Once they're walking, mild "no-no" slaps to the back of the hand are pretty much it.

So anyone who spanks or beats any baby under 2 is pretty much committing a criminal act in my honest opinion.

At 2 and 3, quick swats to the butt that are more surprise and noise than actual pain are more than enough.

At 4, 5 and 6 you let them feel it, but even then the anticipation of the spanking is punishment in itself, so that the actual spanking need only be minimal.

And in all honesty, after that I rarely gave my kids spankings, maybe only a couple between them.

Lots of threats of spankings, but rarely actually carried out.

These are my personal ideas, not what I grew up enduring.

My dad was retired military, so he wasn't scared of lightin' my ass up with a belt in a blink, and frequently.

And him and my mom both were quick with a head-rattling slap to the face/mouth if I got mouthy.

I don't consider it abuse back then, but I probably would consider it so now.

So I have considerably more conservative ideas of what is OK now than what I considered normal when I was a kid.

So in conclusion, spanking in and of itself, applied in the correct context, is not going to result in death.

A parent can lose control, at which point it most likely becomes criminal.

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