Barack Obama vs. Internet rumors

[Hermit_]

Lets put your hypothesis to the test, Bill. Having made good use of the internet to

"try to get to the bottom of things that superficially or erroneously reported on"..

1. What've you concluded about the rumors claiming Obama to be a Muslim?

2. Do you have any doubts about Obama being a Christian?

My thoughts about Obama, (if anyone cares)

I don't think he's a Muslim. I wouldn't care if he was by the way. It's a non issue w/ me.

I'm guessing you replied elsewhere so as not to seem

that you were replying to me directly, eh Uncle BillyBoy?

Anyway..

I'm glad to see you haven't bought into the "Obama's a Muslim" smear rumor.

Now when your fellow "Nobama"-ites.. Pb Derigable and Del.. repeat that rumor, I'm sure you'll try to set them straight about it. You know, seeing as though you claim "I don't have anything personally against [Obama]". If that's true, I'd think you'd feel some responsibility to call BS on obvious smears against him.

[wanna be drummer]

Absolutely.

I've never understood this practice weither in my own country (like in hockey games...WTF?) or any other country throughout the whole wide world.

It's a sign of partiotism. It's symbolic for your willingness to serve your country. It shows that you're dedicated to the country, and you care for its well-being.

If someone refuses to do so (no I'm not saying Obama does) it seems to me that they are not willing to put forth all their energy to make this country a better place, a scary proposition for someone in the White House

[wanna be drummer]

Is he.. "practicing"?

Well,.. he declares Christ to be his Lord and Savior; he goes to church

regularly; and he works the betterment of the poor and disenfranchised.

..does that count as 'practicing Christianity'?

Not really. JFK did the same thing really.

Thats the thing about politics, it's hard to sift through the BS

You're a Catholic, right wanna be? Are you "practicing"?

You know..

Not using any drugs.

Not engaging in premarital sex.

Not taking the Lord's name in vain.

Number one, I'm drug-free...swear on my life

Secopnd, I try my best to follow the rules. It's not reasonable for anybody to be perfect to say that they're practicing, not for me, Obama, not for the 1 billion Catholics on this planet.

I go to church every weekend, I say my prayers, I go to confession, I stay away from drugs, I try my best dude. Am I practicing? Yes, I am.

Remember Hermit, I never said he wasn't devout, I'm just saying that I have no idea whether he's for real or not me

[Hermit_]

Remember Hermit, I never said he wasn't devout, I'm just saying that I have no idea whether he's for real or not me

As far as being a practicing Catholic (you) and Christian (Obama) goes.. fair enough, bro. I have no doubt that you're sincere in your religious beliefs. But it seems to me that if you accept that Obama's a devout Christian, then it'd follow that you'd accept that he's being "real" when he says he's a Christian.

..or am I missing something?

[devout |diˈvout| adjective. Having or showing deep religious

feeling or commitment; totally committed to a cause or belief]

Tying this to the topic of internet rumors.. when you say you 'have no idea whether he's for real or not', are you suggesting that you think he may be pretending to be Christian and that he may secretly be a Muslim? Or do you think he may just be posing as a Christian and that he may not be religious at all? Or what? What's your doubt about, exactly? Fwiw, I'm not bustin' your balls, wanna be,.. I'm genuinely trying to get clear about where you're coming from on this, bro.

[edited for typos]

[Electrophile]

People shouldn't be forced to show their patriotism to keep people from bitching and whining. I don't sing the national anthem, I don't wear flag pins on my clothes and I don't get all teary-eyed when I see the flag or fireworks.

I love this country, and I show it by exercising my right to complain about it when I feel it's being run into the ground. Singing a song and wearing costume jewelery does not an American make.

[Charles_Obscure]

It's a sign of partiotism. It's symbolic for your willingness to serve your country. It shows that you're dedicated to the country, and you care for its well-being.

If someone refuses to do so (no I'm not saying Obama does) it seems to me that they are not willing to put forth all their energy to make this country a better place, a scary proposition for someone in the White House

Well, I understand and respect your point of view.

But here's where I gotta disagree with you...

What if your country has done terrible things in its History like in the case of Native American, one of the worst genocide in Human History (both in Canada and US, and down south with the Conquistadores)... What if your country as done terrible things to foreign countries only to serve his corrupted interests... (i.e. when the CIA made a putsch against the democraticly elected gov. of Allende in Chile only to replace him by dictator Pinochet). Do you still have respect for your country? Yes, you can have pride for the soldier who fought during the 2 Great Wars or simply the good citizens in your country... but to show respect to the very symbol of corrupted government? No. I don't need a flag to show my respect to those brave men and women who saved our world from megalomaniac ideologies.

For myself, I don't have any respect for any form of government or any type of representation of the Canadian gov. for the simple fact that past administrations have been opressing the Native, and us, French speaking people of America (the continent) by trying to assimilate our cultures and languages.

In any case will I stand up for a song or a piece of cotton (the same cotton from centuries of slavery) representing what I'm fighting against... corruption and false democraty.

[Suz]

People shouldn't be forced to show their patriotism to keep people from bitching and whining. I don't sing the national anthem, I don't wear flag pins on my clothes and I don't get all teary-eyed when I see the flag or fireworks.

I love this country, and I show it by exercising my right to complain about it when I feel it's being run into the ground. Singing a song and wearing costume jewelery does not an American make.

I sing the anthem, but not God Bless America. I don't wear flags or pins, either, but I do get teary eyed once in awhile. If we all paid half as much attention to what's actually going on in our local communities (not to mention in our states and our nation) as we do to friggin lapel pins, imagine how much better things could be.

But, no. Let's get into a bitch fest about politicians demonstrating their patriotism in the most shallow ways. And politicians demonstrating their religious beliefs in certain ways......what the fuckity country is this???

-Glad you're posting agian, Electrophile.

-The word "fuckity" comes courtesy of Evster. I like it, so I used it.

[Charles_Obscure]

I sing the anthem, but not God Bless America. I don't wear flags or pins, either, but I do get teary eyed once in awhile. If we all paid half as much attention to what's actually going on in our local communities (not to mention in our states and our nation) as we do to friggin lapel pins, imagine how much better things could be.

But, no. Let's get into a bitch fest about politicians demonstrating their patriotism in the most shallow ways. And politicians demonstrating their religious beliefs in certain ways......what the fuckity country is this???

-Glad you're posting agian, Electrophile.

-The word "fuckity" comes courtesy of Evster. I like it, so I used it.

Thank you.

You said clearly what I'm thinking.

Isn't there a part of your Constitution where it's written that religion can't interfere with politics?

State religion is not a good thing in a free society.

[Electrophile]

I sing the anthem, but not God Bless America. I don't wear flags or pins, either, but I do get teary eyed once in awhile. If we all paid half as much attention to what's actually going on in our local communities (not to mention in our states and our nation) as we do to friggin lapel pins, imagine how much better things could be.

But, no. Let's get into a bitch fest about politicians demonstrating their patriotism in the most shallow ways. And politicians demonstrating their religious beliefs in certain ways......what the fuckity country is this???

-Glad you're posting agian, Electrophile.

-The word "fuckity" comes courtesy of Evster. I like it, so I used it.

I love fireworks, but they don't make me cry. They make me go "oooh" and "aahh", but that's it. I can understand how others can get choked up, sometimes they are quite beautiful, especially if they start sparkling or they make designs before they fizzle. I think people are so worried about others branding them as "un-American" they go beserk trying to show how much they love this slab of rock (that's not directed at you, BTW).

That said, style over substance is so fucking drilled into people nowadays that if a politician runs for public office to better their nation, that's not a big enough sign of patriotism. Who the hell runs for President if at first, they don't have a deep abiding love of the country? I don't need to see Barack Obama prostrate before the flag or bedecked with so much red, white and blue he looks like a hooker on the 4th of July just for me to be secure in the knowledge that he's an American. If others do, well.....they suck.

[wanna be drummer]

As far as being a practicing Catholic (you) and Christian (Obama) goes.. fair enough, bro. I have no doubt that you're sincere in your religious beliefs. But it seems to me that if you accept that Obama's a devout Christian, then it'd follow that you'd accept that he's being "real" when he says he's a Christian.

..or am I missing something?

[devout |diˈvout| adjective. Having or showing deep religious

feeling or commitment; totally committed to a cause or belief]

Tying this to the topic of internet rumors.. when you say you 'have no idea whether he's for real or not', are you suggesting that you think he may be pretending to be Christian and that he may secretly be a Muslim? Or do you think he may just be posing as a Christian and that he may not be religious at all? Or what? What's your doubt about, exactly? Fwiw, I'm not bustin' your balls, wanna be,.. I'm genuinely trying to get clear about where you're coming from on this, bro.

[edited for typos]

Actually, you did miss something but only because I mistyped it.

What I meant to say was that I don't honestly know if he is devout or not. But, just remember, I am not saying that he isn't. That being said, I am not saying that he is either. I have no idea, nor do I really care.

My apologies for the fuck up

Edited to add: I never meant to imply that I thought he was devout

[wanna be drummer]

Well, I understand and respect your point of view.

But here's where I gotta disagree with you...

What if your country has done terrible things in its History like in the case of Native American, one of the worst genocide in Human History (both in Canada and US, and down south with the Conquistadores)... What if your country as done terrible things to foreign countries only to serve his corrupted interests... (i.e. when the CIA made a putsch against the democraticly elected gov. of Allende in Chile only to replace him by dictator Pinochet). Do you still have respect for your country? Yes, you can have pride for the soldier who fought during the 2 Great Wars or simply the good citizens in your country... but to show respect to the very symbol of corrupted government? No. I don't need a flag to show my respect to those brave men and women who saved our world from megalomaniac ideologies.

Our country has done horrible things, no doubt. It has, however, also done great things. The flag is not the symbol of the government, as you seem to believe, it is a symbol for the country as a whole, the people in it, the communities, hell the states are even represented in it. The flag is a sign of hope, not governmental activities

For myself, I don't have any respect for any form of government or any type of representation of the Canadian gov. for the simple fact that past administrations have been opressing the Native, and us, French speaking people of America (the continent) by trying to assimilate our cultures and languages.

In any case will I stand up for a song or a piece of cotton (the same cotton from centuries of slavery) representing what I'm fighting against... corruption and false democraty.

It is your right to not salute a flag or sing a national anthem, I'm not denying that. But to have a president or a leader that refuses to do so simply doesn't make sense to me. It's like the police chief of a city refusing to swear an oath to protect the members of his community.

But hey, thats just me. Feel free to think whatever you want. It's your right

[Charles_Obscure]

On the same line, a president don't have to go to the church each Sunday and doesn't have to say God Bless America after each speech.

but heh! Let's agree to disagree!

[wanna be drummer]

cheers

[wanna be drummer]

Thank you.

You said clearly what I'm thinking.

Isn't there a part of your Constitution where it's written that religion can't interfere with politics?

State religion is not a good thing in a free society.

Common misonception, it first apeared in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote, not the Constitution

[Hermit_]

First Amendment to the United States Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Constitutional guarantee that there shall be no state-sanctioned and/or state-run religion,

and that citizens shall have the freedom and right to practice the religion of their choosing.]

[Uncle Bill]

More on nobama vs internet rumors:

Malik Obama confirms his half-brother Barack grew up a Muslim

"Apparently the Obamas of Kenya have been reading those scurrilous emails to which Barack likes to refer, because they have no doubt -- contrary to the claims of the Obama campaign, that the presidential candidate was raised a Moslem. They take that as a given.

As the Jerusalem Post reports, "Barack Obama's half brother Malik said Thursday that if elected his brother will be a good president for the Jewish people, despite his Muslim background."

"In a remarkable denial issued last November that still stands on the official campaign website, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs issued a statement explaining that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." "

"It is not clear whether Barack Obama will now disown his half-brother Malik for acknowledging that shared family background. In any case, some one should notify "Fight the Smear" tout de suite. Perhaps they can get him with the program."

source

[allthekingshorses]

More on nobama vs internet rumors:

Malik Obama confirms his half-brother Barack grew up a Muslim

"Apparently the Obamas of Kenya have been reading those scurrilous emails to which Barack likes to refer, because they have no doubt -- contrary to the claims of the Obama campaign, that the presidential candidate was raised a Moslem. They take that as a given.

As the Jerusalem Post reports, "Barack Obama's half brother Malik said Thursday that if elected his brother will be a good president for the Jewish people, despite his Muslim background."

"In a remarkable denial issued last November that still stands on the official campaign website, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs issued a statement explaining that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." "

"It is not clear whether Barack Obama will now disown his half-brother Malik for acknowledging that shared family background. In any case, some one should notify "Fight the Smear" tout de suite. Perhaps they can get him with the program."

source

Yep, more rumors, he became a Christian in his adult life(not that it matters what religion he is). He was raised by his mother and his grandparents. His mother wasn't religious. And big deal if people in his family are Muslim. It's America Stupid!

[Uncle Bill]

Yep, more rumors, he became a Christian in his adult life(not that it matters what religion he is). He was raised by his mother and his grandparents. His mother wasn't religious. And big deal if people in his family are Muslim. It's America Stupid!

It's clear you can't be objective, but what are you saying? Are you saying his brother is starting rumors for some reason?

you must have missed the part where his website says;

"In a remarkable denial issued last November that still stands on the official campaign website, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs issued a statement explaining that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim,"

his brother seems to be implying differently saying he has a "Muslim background".

I don't care what religion he is/ was, but it certainly looks like conflicting info to me.

[allthekingshorses]

It's clear you can't be objective, but what are you saying? Are you saying his brother is starting rumors for some reason?

you must have missed the part where his website says;

"In a remarkable denial issued last November that still stands on the official campaign website, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs issued a statement explaining that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim,"

his brother seems to be implying differently saying he has a "Muslim background".

I don't care what religion he is/ was, but it certainly looks like conflicting info to me.

No, I don't think his brother is starting rumors. Could Muslim background mean his family is Muslim??? He met this brother in 1985 from what I read in the article you posted. So they definitely had different backgrounds as they had different mothers. Barack's mother did not raise him as a Muslim.

You are saying Barack Obama is lying and was a Muslim in his youth?..... who's lost objectivity? Keep grasping....

[Uncle Bill]

You are saying Barack Obama is lying and was a Muslim in his youth?..... who's lost objectivity? Keep grasping....

I've stated clearly I don't care if he is/ was muslim it's a non issue with me. I don't think he is now, and wouldn't care if he was, it's no worse than any other religion. I'm an atheist and view all religions dimly.

The issue is why deny it if true, or why did his brother say it if not??

[Suz]

On the same line, a president don't have to go to the church each Sunday and doesn't have to say God Bless America after each speech.

You would think so.

[Suz]

I love fireworks, but they don't make me cry. They make me go "oooh" and "aahh", but that's it. I can understand how others can get choked up, sometimes they are quite beautiful, especially if they start sparkling or they make designs before they fizzle. I think people are so worried about others branding them as "un-American" they go beserk trying to show how much they love this slab of rock (that's not directed at you, BTW).

That said, style over substance is so fucking drilled into people nowadays that if a politician runs for public office to better their nation, that's not a big enough sign of patriotism. Who the hell runs for President if at first, they don't have a deep abiding love of the country? I don't need to see Barack Obama prostrate before the flag or bedecked with so much red, white and blue he looks like a hooker on the 4th of July just for me to be secure in the knowledge that he's an American. If others do, well.....they suck.

Yeah, I don't cry at fireworks, either. But about 10 years ago I was playing a military medley at a concert and all the old (and I man OLD) veterans were standing up when their song was played. Stuff like that chokes me up.

But I'm in complete agreement with you. They are pandering to us like we're a bunch of goddamned 4th graders and for some reason people just lap it up. I have known people who have never voted and they seem to be the ones who get off on that crap the most.

[allthekingshorses]

I've stated clearly I don't care if he is/ was muslim it's a non issue with me. I don't think he is now, and wouldn't care if he was, it's no worse than any other religion. I'm an atheist and view all religions dimly.

The issue is why deny it if true, or why did his brother say it if not??

It is possible that "background" would be refering to his other family members that are Muslim. He doesn't specifically say that Barack was Muslim. Barack is a very intelligent man, he's not going to lie about being Muslim. If he had been a practicing Muslim at any time in his life, I have no doubts he would have mentioned that.

Having had Muslim influences in his life could also be "background". Would you agree with that?

I've been to Catholic church many times in my life. But I'm not a Catholic, my family is.

[Uncle Bill]

Having had Muslim influences in his life could also be "background". Would you agree with that?

Yes. My point was that is it any wonder that people question if he has Muslim roots when his own brother makes such a statement. I posted it without comment because I didn't really know what to make of it. Your "explanation" seems plausible to me, but the nuance is hard to discern.