PLANET ROCK TOP 40 ROCK SINGERS OF ALL TIME ,EVER ETC

[040879]

Did anyone else listen to the 'Planet Rock Top 40 Rock Singers of All Time,Ever,In The World etc' yesterday[ist]? It was the usual list of oldish white males,dead white males and one token[dead]woman. Pretty predictable really.About the youngest singer there was W.Axl Rose,although Chris Cornell may have featured[i was in the bath and thought I heard Black Hole Sun being played] Anyway RP won and the DJ said it was a big winning margin over Fred Mercury who was second.Can anyone explain why this listeners poll seemed to ignore women in big way and was based on a set of values and assumptions that seem stuck firmly in about 1974? Thanks!

[croquet'n'cocaine]

Can anyone explain why this listeners poll seemed to ignore women in big way and was based on a set of values and assumptions that seem stuck firmly in about 1974? Thanks!

There's no shortage of fantastic female singers... but Rock singers? Janis and, er... who else? The great female singers tend to be Pop, Folk or out-on-their-own quirky (Kate Bush, Sinead O'Connor, Patti Smith etc etc). I really can't think of any top rank female Rock singers, but I'm bound to have overlooked some really important ones. Who did you have in mind?

[Reggie29]

Did anyone else listen to the 'Planet Rock Top 40 Rock Singers of All Time,Ever,In The World etc' yesterday[ist]? It was the usual list of oldish white males,dead white males and one token[dead]woman. Pretty predictable really.About the youngest singer there was W.Axl Rose,although Chris Cornell may have featured[i was in the bath and thought I heard Black Hole Sun being played] Anyway RP won and the DJ said it was a big winning margin over Fred Mercury who was second.Can anyone explain why this listeners poll seemed to ignore women in big way and was based on a set of values and assumptions that seem stuck firmly in about 1974? Thanks!

We're talking about a popularity contest here and the results are sometimes predictable, but random nonetheless.

It all comes down to who got the most call ins.

What was the criteria?

Contribution to modern culture?

Output?

Album sales?

Live performances?

IMO, I know of only three "non-white" performers that I would classify as rock singers:

Jimi Hendrix

Lenny Kravitz

Prince

Right or wrong rock singers are generally male.

Most female vocalists may have high registers, only some have lower.

There are a few that come to mind that IMO would be on par with males:

Janis Joplin

Annie Lennox

Dusty Springfield

The thing is that rock music has and always will be, dominated by males, right or wrong that is the reality.

[Melanie_72]

There's no shortage of fantastic female singers... but Rock singers? Janis and, er... who else? The great female singers tend to be Pop, Folk or out-on-their-own quirky (Kate Bush, Sinead O'Connor, Patti Smith etc etc). I really can't think of any top rank female Rock singers, but I'm bound to have overlooked some really important ones. Who did you have in mind?

Alongside Janis, you have Ann Wilson, Tina Turner, Stevie Nicks, Grace Slick, Pat Benatar, Chrissie Hynde............any of them ring a bell?

Glad to hear Robert won this poll though, but I do agree that they tend to overlook the women alot of times.

[040879]

There's no shortage of fantastic female singers... but Rock singers? Janis and, er... who else? The great female singers tend to be Pop, Folk or out-on-their-own quirky (Kate Bush, Sinead O'Connor, Patti Smith etc etc). I really can't think of any top rank female Rock singers, but I'm bound to have overlooked some really important ones. Who did you have in mind?

The 3 you've mentioned are all really good examples. I'd add Joni Mitchell,Beth Gibbons, Chrissie Hynde, Stevie Nicks[not for me,but I'd say she's a female rock singer],the woman from Evanesence[same words in brackets as for Stevie Nicks]Annie Lennox,Those are just off the top of my head. You're right in saying that most female singers could be slotted into different categories. The thing that made me wonder was the inclusion-high up on the list- of David Bowie,who I'd say has not always been a rock singer and Bruce Springsteen who,although he epitomises a certain kind of stadium shouting, is capable of a lot more in different genres,such as folk .With this in mind, those we've mentioned here seem as 'rock' as Bowie or Bruce to me.It's telling that the only woman listed was Joplin and the DJ talked about her as if she was a sort of honorary man. Are women judged by different standards? Bruce and Dave are allowed to'genre-hop'and still be deemed 'rock' singers yet women aren't? Confused?

[Levee]

1. Aretha Franklin

2. Madonna

3. Diana Ross & The Supremes

4. Joni Mitchell

5. Etta James

6. Ruth Brown

7. Janis Joplin

8. Mariah Carey

9. Tina Turner

10. Donna Summer

11. The Shirelles

12. Whitney Houston

13. Bonnie Raitt

14. Martha & The Vandellas

15. Patti Smith

16. Lavern Baker

17. Stevie Nicks (Fleetwood Mac/Solo)

18. Gladys Knight (Gladys Knights & the Pips/Solo)

19. Carole King

20. Janet Jackson

21. Chrissie Hynde (The Pretenders)

22. Annie Lennox

23. Debbie Harry (Blondie)

24. Linda Ronstadt

25. Cher

26. Chaka Khan ( Rufus/Solo)

27. Grace Slick (Jefferson Airplane)

28. Emmylou Harris

29. Pat Benatar

30. Tori Amos

31. Laura Nyro

32. Ricki Lee Jones

33. Joan Baez

34. Tracy Chapman

35. Ann Wilson & Nancy Wilson (Heart)

36. Sarah McLachlan

37. Roberta Flack

38. Kate Bush

39. Dusty Springfield

40. Salt-N-Pepa

41. Karen Carpenter (The Carpenters)

42. Carly Simon

43. Patti Labelle (Labelle/Solo)

44. Dionne Warwick

45. Brenda Lee

46. Connie Francis

47. Sade

48. Wanda Jackson

49. Joan Armatrading

50. Mavis Staples (The Staple Singers)

51. Alanis Morissette

52. Queen Latifah

53. Melissa Etheridge

54. Bjork

55. Joan Jett (Runaways/Solo)

56. Judy Collins

57. Gloria Estefan

58. Mary Wells

59. Anita Baker

60. Sheryl Crow

61. Missy Elliott

62. Bette Midler

63. Go-Go's

64. Kate Pierson & Cindy Wilson (The B-52s)

65. Cass Elliot & Michelle Phillips (Mama's & Papas)

66. The Pointer Sisters

67. Lucinda Williams

68. Exene Cervenka (X)

69. Celine Dion

70. Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth)

71. Lauryn Hill

72. Mary J. Blige

73. The Ronettes

74. Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac)

75. Esther Phillips

76. Gwen Stefani (No Doubt)

77. PJ Harvey

78. Olivia Newton John

79. Kim Deal (The Pixies)

80. Erykah Badu

81. Natalie Cole

82. The Marvelettes

83. TLC

84. Irma Thomas

85. Ani DiFranco

86. Cyndi Lauper

87. Tina Weymouth (The Talking Heads)

88. Indigo Girls

89. Marianne Faithful

90. Liz Phair

91. Laurie Anderson

92. Siouxsie Sioux (Siouxsie & the Banshees)

93. Alicia Keys

94. Petula Clark

95. Faye Adams

96. En Vogue

97. Jewel

98. Lesley Gore

99. Nico

100. Carla Thomas

[040879]

So...then...courtesy of Levee and others ,we've established that there are a lot of female singers who could have been in the Greatest etc poll. But they weren't. Having gathered names,to show that those singers actually exist-or existed-and established that genre-hopping seems to be a quality that allows men to still be rock singers but not women, my question still stands....why only one woman ?

Incidentally,I don't hold anyone here responsible for those results at all.It just struck myself and my girlfriend strongly that the list and the way it was presented seemed to be appealing to and endorsing a reactionary and very narrow view of'rock' music. Supplementary question-is this a fair summary of what 'rock' is at the start of 2009? Is it a more inclusive,capacious category than this poll would seem to show?

Do not use more than 2 sides of the paper...your time starts ...NOW!!

[Mr E]

So...then...courtesy of Levee and others ,we've established that there are a lot of female singers who could have been in the Greatest etc poll. But they weren't. Having gathered names,to show that those singers actually exist-or existed-and established that genre-hopping seems to be a quality that allows men to still be rock singers but not women, my question still stands....why only one woman ?

Incidentally,I don't hold anyone here responsible for those results at all.It just struck myself and my girlfriend strongly that the list and the way it was presented seemed to be appealing to and endorsing a reactionary and very narrow view of'rock' music. Supplementary question-is this a fair summary of what 'rock' is at the start of 2009? Is it a more inclusive,capacious category than this poll would seem to show?

Do not use more than 2 sides of the paper...your time starts ...NOW!!

You do realise that Planet Rock is a 'Classic Rock' radio station, which basically means it caters for mainly hard rock/heavy metal fans which happens to be a very male dominant form of music. This may explain why you found the list somewhat narrow minded. There are not many women in the list because there simply aren't many women in the hard rock/heavy metal genre. I wouldn't take the list too seriously.

Here's the list for people who missed the show:

1. Robert Plant

2. Freddie Mercury

3. Paul Rodgers

4. Ian Gillan

5. Roger Daltrey

6. David Coverdale

7. Axl Rose

8. Bruce Dickinson

9. Mick Jaggar

10. Bon Scott

11. David Bowie

12. Jon Bon Jovi

13. Steven Tyler

14. Jon Anderson

15. Bruce Springsteen

16. Steve Perry

17. Ozzy Osbourne

18. Bono

19. Peter Gabriel

20. James Hetfield

21. Janis Joplin

22. Brian Johnson

23. Roger Chapman

24. Phil Lynott

25. Glenn Hughes

26. Joe Cocker

27. Jim Morrison

28. Alex Harvey

29. Alice Cooper

30. Ronnie James Dio

31. Sammy Hagar

32. Meat Loaf

33. Rob Halford

34. Geddy Lee

35. Biff Byford

36. David Gilmour

37. Fish

38. Dave Lee Roth

39. Chris Cornell

40. Neil Young

[Reggie29]

Curiously John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Rory Gallagher and Jimi Hendrix were absent?

[glicine]

Curiously John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Rory Gallagher and Jimi Hendrix were absent?

This poll is called "the Greatest Voice", they are all wonderful singers but not necessary the best voices, that's probably the reason.

[Reggie29]

This poll is called "the Greatest Voice", they are all wonderful singers but not necessary the best voices, that's probably the reason.

They're a damn side better than Fish!

[glicine]

They're a damn side better than Fish!

I'd say you're right

[040879]

You do realise that Planet Rock is a 'Classic Rock' radio station, which basically means it caters for mainly hard rock/heavy metal fans which happens to be a very male dominant form of music. This may explain why you found the list somewhat narrow minded. There are not many women in the list because there simply aren't many women in the hard rock/heavy metal genre. I wouldn't take the list too seriously.

Thanks, Mr E. Your comments have helped me clarify my thoughts. Yes, I did understand what I was listening to. I guess you've hit the very centre of my feelings and ideas on this. What this essentially reminded me of was a list that could,for the most part,have been compiled by me and my contemporaries 30 years ago. Before anyone jumps on me,yes, there are one or two 'new'additions' but not many and they're not exactly fresh new talent,are they? I suppose this list could lead me to maybe think that ' hard rock/HM' as genres seem no more 'open' or inclusive or susceptible to wider influences than they did 25 or 30 years ago. I used the show as a sort of overview of the genre at the start of 2009.Who do people like? Who are the new stars?How has the music I used to be interested in altered? I hoped,possibly naively,to have my attention drawn to some new stuff I'd missed,if only with the early placings,before the established stars filled the top 10.Didn't happen.

Silly move,really,on my part...the only bit I took at all seriously was the first place,which I hoped RP would win but didn't entirely expect. Incidentally,Dazed and Confused was used as the RP track,presumably because it demonstrates everything that makes him Number One...

[Melanie_72]

1. Aretha Franklin

2. Madonna

3. Diana Ross & The Supremes

4. Joni Mitchell

5. Etta James

6. Ruth Brown

7. Janis Joplin

8. Mariah Carey

9. Tina Turner

10. Donna Summer

11. The Shirelles

12. Whitney Houston

13. Bonnie Raitt

14. Martha & The Vandellas

15. Patti Smith

16. Lavern Baker

17. Stevie Nicks (Fleetwood Mac/Solo)

18. Gladys Knight (Gladys Knights & the Pips/Solo)

19. Carole King

20. Janet Jackson

21. Chrissie Hynde (The Pretenders)

22. Annie Lennox

23. Debbie Harry (Blondie)

24. Linda Ronstadt

25. Cher

26. Chaka Khan ( Rufus/Solo)

27. Grace Slick (Jefferson Airplane)

28. Emmylou Harris

29. Pat Benatar

30. Tori Amos

31. Laura Nyro

32. Ricki Lee Jones

33. Joan Baez

34. Tracy Chapman

35. Ann Wilson & Nancy Wilson (Heart)

36. Sarah McLachlan

37. Roberta Flack

38. Kate Bush

39. Dusty Springfield

40. Salt-N-Pepa

41. Karen Carpenter (The Carpenters)

42. Carly Simon

43. Patti Labelle (Labelle/Solo)

44. Dionne Warwick

45. Brenda Lee

46. Connie Francis

47. Sade

48. Wanda Jackson

49. Joan Armatrading

50. Mavis Staples (The Staple Singers)

51. Alanis Morissette

52. Queen Latifah

53. Melissa Etheridge

54. Bjork

55. Joan Jett (Runaways/Solo)

56. Judy Collins

57. Gloria Estefan

58. Mary Wells

59. Anita Baker

60. Sheryl Crow

61. Missy Elliott

62. Bette Midler

63. Go-Go's

64. Kate Pierson & Cindy Wilson (The B-52s)

65. Cass Elliot & Michelle Phillips (Mama's & Papas)

66. The Pointer Sisters

67. Lucinda Williams

68. Exene Cervenka (X)

69. Celine Dion

70. Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth)

71. Lauryn Hill

72. Mary J. Blige

73. The Ronettes

74. Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac)

75. Esther Phillips

76. Gwen Stefani (No Doubt)

77. PJ Harvey

78. Olivia Newton John

79. Kim Deal (The Pixies)

80. Erykah Badu

81. Natalie Cole

82. The Marvelettes

83. TLC

84. Irma Thomas

85. Ani DiFranco

86. Cyndi Lauper

87. Tina Weymouth (The Talking Heads)

88. Indigo Girls

89. Marianne Faithful

90. Liz Phair

91. Laurie Anderson

92. Siouxsie Sioux (Siouxsie & the Banshees)

93. Alicia Keys

94. Petula Clark

95. Faye Adams

96. En Vogue

97. Jewel

98. Lesley Gore

99. Nico

100. Carla Thomas

Great list levee. Where did you find this?

[040879]

Great list levee. Where did you find this?

Indeed it is an interesting list. Just to add to the debate,I reckon maybe 20 of these singers could be in the 'Greatest etc etc of etc ever' list on exactly the same criteria as the men that were listed. I still have a suspicion that there are double standards being applied here.

Careful now...I'm not interested in asserting that Woman X is better than Man Y]or vice-versa].My point is that the Classic Rock genre seems to allow men to move in and out of various musical forms[and still be an exponent ofClassic Rock and thus worthy of consideration] but not women.

[ninelives]

This poll is called "the Greatest Voice", they are all wonderful singers but not necessary the best voices, that's probably the reason.

True and these lists are often based on a small group of people's thoughts, not necessarily representing the masses. I never get too wound up by them because it's all a matter of taste. While I agree with some of the names on this list for example, I'd have put them in a different order and probably left off others, etc.

[040879]

This 'll probably have to be my last comment on this thread for a while but I will keep an eye on it .I'm asking questions because I'd genuinely like to know if the worldview of Classic Rock fans is as it seems from looking at this poll.I'm very aware of the methodological issues and problems behind a poll such as this but still...the glaring exclusion of women seems very odd indeed.I don't think' methodological problems' can entirely explain such a big omission It seems that there are plenty of women candidates but they seem to be left out for not being'rock' enough or for daring to make music in other genres. But--Bowie,Springsteen and Neil Young have all made records that are not'rock' in this narrowly-defined sense and they still get included.

At bottom,I find it hard to forget the oft-stated criticism of HardRock/HM that it's basically sexist music,made for a sexist audience. Surely that's not true is it? Or is it?

[croquet'n'cocaine]

The replies on here do open up all sorts of questions. The male-dominated original list is mostly made up of pure Rock singers, to be fair. Bowie and Neil Young are the exeptions, and Bowie's most famous role was as Ziggy Stardust which is pretty definitive Rock really.

The female list is far more eclectic. This is something that women in music should get far more credit for, IMHO, instead of critics constantly banging on about how there aren't any good all-girl bands or whatever. There are only a handful out of that top 100 women list who could be defined purely as Rock singers really, however great they are or were.

[timothy5151]

I have to agree with most points here. Rock is mainly male dominated and these lists are truely subjective. Here's a selection of women in rock, as I see it. I am sure there are more, but these are what I can only recall from my vast collections of music cds.

These are in no particular order:

Janis Joplin

Gwen Stefani (No Doubt)

Donita Sparks & Suzi Gardner (L7)

Lee Aaron

Janet Gardner (Vixen)

Lita Ford

Chrissie Steele

Alanis Morissette

Joan Jett

Melissa Etheridge

Sass Jordan

Stevie Nicks & Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac)

Ann & Nancy Wilson (Heart)

Sheryl Crow

[TheZeppyWanderer]

So...then...courtesy of Levee and others ,we've established that there are a lot of female singers who could have been in the Greatest etc poll. But they weren't. Having gathered names,to show that those singers actually exist-or existed-and established that genre-hopping seems to be a quality that allows men to still be rock singers but not women, my question still stands....why only one woman ?

Incidentally,I don't hold anyone here responsible for those results at all.It just struck myself and my girlfriend strongly that the list and the way it was presented seemed to be appealing to and endorsing a reactionary and very narrow view of'rock' music. Supplementary question-is this a fair summary of what 'rock' is at the start of 2009? Is it a more inclusive,capacious category than this poll would seem to show?

Do not use more than 2 sides of the paper...your time starts ...NOW!!

Your campaign on behalf of women, and the points you raise are highly commendable. What we don't want however, is for music to be dragged into the politically correct world of social engineering.

Let there be women, midgets and martians on that list by all means - if, and only if they can be said to be there on merit, not merely because there SHOULD be a social diversity present.

Personally, I would put the legendary Grace Slick on any such list, and pretty high up too - along with the equally illustrious Karen Carpenter.

And just a thought on Planet Rock - for a long time I have been happy to plug this station and it's features. My appreciation has dipped very much though, in recent months - so many of their playlists, and 'listeners' polls seem to have taken on a new slant. This is POSSIBLY due to the fact that they clearly wish to publicise their new presenters - some of whom are musicians. EXAMPLE - Fish, who makes the list ahead of Neil Young and others. What an absolute joke.

EDITED for careless spelling.

[040879]

Your campaign on behalf of women, and the points you raise are highly commendable. What we don't want however, is for music to be dragged into the politically correct world of social engineering.

Let there be women, midgets and martians on that list by all means - if, and only if they can be said to be there on merit, not merely because there SHOULD be a social diversity present.

Personally, I would put the legendary Grace Slick on any such list, and pretty high up too - along with the equally illustrious Karen Carpenter.

And just a thought on Planet Rock - for a long time I have been happy to plug this station and it's features. My appreciation has dipped very much though, in recent months - so many of their playlists, and 'listeners' polls seem to have taken on a new slant. This is POSSIBLY due to the fact that they clearly wish to publicise their new presenters - some of whom are musicians. EXAMPLE - Fish, who makes the list ahead of Neil Young and others. What an absolute joke.

EDITED for careless spelling.

Thanks. I'm not really campaigning on anyone's behalf,but I can see what you mean from the general tone of my posts on this topic. Your social engineering/PC comments are apposite too and I agree, for what it's worth. I was really looking for some sort of explanation for this chart,that's all.It seems I've not really got that,as such, but I have seen a lot of very interesting and informative comments here.

There are plenty of women I'd put in the chart too,nearly all of whom have been named here by one person or another.Just seems odd that all of those creative people are ignored so completely.

[Reggie1971]

1. Aretha Franklin

2. Madonna

3. Diana Ross & The Supremes

4. Joni Mitchell

5. Etta James

6. Ruth Brown

7. Janis Joplin

8. Mariah Carey

9. Tina Turner

10. Donna Summer

11. The Shirelles

12. Whitney Houston

13. Bonnie Raitt

14. Martha & The Vandellas

15. Patti Smith

16. Lavern Baker

17. Stevie Nicks (Fleetwood Mac/Solo)

18. Gladys Knight (Gladys Knights & the Pips/Solo)

19. Carole King

20. Janet Jackson

21. Chrissie Hynde (The Pretenders)

22. Annie Lennox

23. Debbie Harry (Blondie)

24. Linda Ronstadt

25. Cher

26. Chaka Khan ( Rufus/Solo)

27. Grace Slick (Jefferson Airplane)

28. Emmylou Harris

29. Pat Benatar

30. Tori Amos

31. Laura Nyro

32. Ricki Lee Jones

33. Joan Baez

34. Tracy Chapman

35. Ann Wilson & Nancy Wilson (Heart)

36. Sarah McLachlan

37. Roberta Flack

38. Kate Bush

39. Dusty Springfield

40. Salt-N-Pepa

41. Karen Carpenter (The Carpenters)

42. Carly Simon

43. Patti Labelle (Labelle/Solo)

44. Dionne Warwick

45. Brenda Lee

46. Connie Francis

47. Sade

48. Wanda Jackson

49. Joan Armatrading

50. Mavis Staples (The Staple Singers)

51. Alanis Morissette

52. Queen Latifah

53. Melissa Etheridge

54. Bjork

55. Joan Jett (Runaways/Solo)

56. Judy Collins

57. Gloria Estefan

58. Mary Wells

59. Anita Baker

60. Sheryl Crow

61. Missy Elliott

62. Bette Midler

63. Go-Go's

64. Kate Pierson & Cindy Wilson (The B-52s)

65. Cass Elliot & Michelle Phillips (Mama's & Papas)

66. The Pointer Sisters

67. Lucinda Williams

68. Exene Cervenka (X)

69. Celine Dion

70. Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth)

71. Lauryn Hill

72. Mary J. Blige

73. The Ronettes

74. Christine McVie (Fleetwood Mac)

75. Esther Phillips

76. Gwen Stefani (No Doubt)

77. PJ Harvey

78. Olivia Newton John

79. Kim Deal (The Pixies)

80. Erykah Badu

81. Natalie Cole

82. The Marvelettes

83. TLC

84. Irma Thomas

85. Ani DiFranco

86. Cyndi Lauper

87. Tina Weymouth (The Talking Heads)

88. Indigo Girls

89. Marianne Faithful

90. Liz Phair

91. Laurie Anderson

92. Siouxsie Sioux (Siouxsie & the Banshees)

93. Alicia Keys

94. Petula Clark

95. Faye Adams

96. En Vogue

97. Jewel

98. Lesley Gore

99. Nico

100. Carla Thomas

No Kiki Dee?

[Levee]

Great list levee. Where did you find this?

It's called Digital Dream Door. Com Melanie, here's the link:

http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/

It's far from perfect, but it does have dozens of lists from all genre's.

I tend to go to it as apposed to magazines, that usually create lists that are sometimes aimed to pander to the artist of the month to get the all important "Cover Story"

It really is a fun and informative site, check it out!

[Mariuca]

Top 40 Rock Singers of All Time,Ever: am I blind, or what? No ELVIS????

[Melanie_72]

It's called Digital Dream Door. Com Melanie, here's the link:

http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/

It's far from perfect, but it does have dozens of lists from all genre's.

I tend to go to it as apposed to magazines, that usually create lists that are sometimes aimed to pander to the artist of the month to get the all important "Cover Story"

It really is a fun and informative site, check it out!

Great, thanks for the link Levee!