Slate Chocolate Marble
Slate Chocolate Marble

Led Zeppelin Official Forum

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

kaiser

Robert Plant on his Led Zeppelin royalties...

224 posts in this topic

On 1/23/2015 at 6:07 AM, raytuned said:

I agree w/every single post listed here, but somehow someway ,I find that very hard to believe,is it a joke or something ,I find this all very hard to believe. I do believe that someone always gets it no matter what .if Plant doesn't somebody will ,ex.handed down ,estate, family,designated party ,etc,etc,! The music industry is vicious. Let's review,....look what happened to Elvis ,Beatles,and James Brown (15 yrs dead and they still can't can't settle) , Liberace,another classic example. Bottom line,if the music is no longer profitable after any "7 " yr.stretch it becomes public domain and then its a whole new ballgame.ask yourself this ??...."Is someone claiming royalties to Beethoven??...You bet your sweet a$$ they are!!! . and I can start my own forum on how many legendary musicians died heartbroken,penniless,friendless,and way deep in debt. Record executives,,labels company's, are inhumane vultures,heartless and void of any self respect. I place Bob Geffen of Geffen Records on top of the list .Some one should off him!!!

You mentioned Elvis- what are you referring to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/8/2017 at 4:07 AM, JeffLZ said:

You mentioned Elvis- what are you referring to?

You won't get any replies from raytuned.  His stock reply to pretty much anything was 'I find this hard to believe', and was pretty incoherent in much of what he said in the 3 weeks or so he posted stuff on here.  Hasn't been seen here for a coupla years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/8/2017 at 1:07 PM, JeffLZ said:

You mentioned Elvis- what are you referring to?

Elvis was exploited by Colonel Tom Parker in life and exploited by so many profiteers after his death. The King of Rock was reduced to the King of Kitsch, at least for many years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 1/23/2015 at 1:14 PM, woz70 said:

In the early 80's Led Zeppelin weren't selling too many records, so Robert's royalty cheques must have been coming in less and less frequently and also for smaller and smaller amounts.

Old thread, but interesting.  I do wonder when Led Zeppelin records and tapes stopped selling in the U.S.?  Can't say for the rest of the world but Atlantic never stopped stocking the "original 10" throughout the 1980s as rock radio played Zep incessantly and "Get the Led Out" segments were lunchtime and drive-time necessities. The RIAA certified sales database indicates that there was never a time between the release of Led Zeppelin I and the onslaught of the CD in 1988-89 that the Zep records and tapes were not selling in the U.S.  If Robert's first four solo records sold 6 million in the 1980s, Zep sales more than doubled that.

Edited by Mercurious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mercurious said:

Old thread, but interesting.  I do wonder when Led Zeppelin records and tapes stopped selling in the U.S.?  Can't say for the rest of the world but Atlantic never stopped stocking the "original 10" throughout the 1980s as rock radio played Zep incessantly and "Get the Led Out" segments were lunchtime and drive-time necessities. The RIAA certified sales database indicates that there was never a time between the release of Led Zeppelin I and the onslaught of the CD in 1988-89 that the Zep records and tapes were not selling in the U.S.  If Robert's first four solo records sold 6 million in the 1980s, Zep sales more than doubled that.

I live in the UK,  and in the 80's Led Zeppelin albums were in the bargain bins. I bought CODA on vinyl in 1983 for £1. Being a Zeppelin fan was not cool until about '88/'89 - just before the first box sets appeared.

If the album sales had totally tanked he wouldn't have got a good price for selling the rights.  I think he took a pragmatic approach, saw a general downwards trend in royalties and decided to hedge his bets and cash in to get a lump sum to fund his solo career/divest himself of all things Zep/etc...

It's ironic that he did it just before the first CD releases reinvigorated sales, but those are the gambles you take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, woz70 said:

I live in the UK,  and in the 80's Led Zeppelin albums were in the bargain bins. I bought CODA on vinyl in 1983 for £1. Being a Zeppelin fan was not cool until about '88/'89 - just before the first box sets appeared.

If the album sales had totally tanked he wouldn't have got a good price for selling the rights.  I think he took a pragmatic approach, saw a general downwards trend in royalties and decided to hedge his bets and cash in to get a lump sum to fund his solo career/divest himself of all things Zep/etc...

It's ironic that he did it just before the first CD releases reinvigorated sales, but those are the gambles you take.

It's fascinating how different the markets were. Zep remained gods in the U.S.  I do remember seeing Coda in the discount bins, and maybe TSRTS (one could find double live albums in those bins, usually). But I can't honestly say I ever saw even Presence in a discount bin. I remember hoping it would but it never happened. Atlantic wasn't going to give me a break on presence or any other of the eight studio albums.

As I was looking up the actual sales numbers, I was floored how strong sales of ITTOD were. The album outsold just about everything else on the market 1979-82. It was released at about the same time as Van Halen II and Zenyatta Mondatta, to give two examples worlds apart as far as audience. ITTOD easily outsold them both, and outpaced sales of the first three Police records combined; and VH I and II combined.

ITTOD easily outsold Robert's first three solo records, too, all of which ended up in the cut out bins of America.  I realize Robert didn't want to be greedy, and had any number of reasons for selling the rights, but part of it may be that he just didn't want to look at how much more the Zep catalog was still selling in the states. :popcorn2: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 3/13/2017 at 7:23 AM, woz70 said:

I live in the UK,  and in the 80's Led Zeppelin albums were in the bargain bins. I bought CODA on vinyl in 1983 for £1. Being a Zeppelin fan was not cool until about '88/'89 - just before the first box sets appeared.

If the album sales had totally tanked he wouldn't have got a good price for selling the rights.  I think he took a pragmatic approach, saw a general downwards trend in royalties and decided to hedge his bets and cash in to get a lump sum to fund his solo career/divest himself of all things Zep/etc...

It's ironic that he did it just before the first CD releases reinvigorated sales, but those are the gambles you take.

To be honest, I don't think being a Zeppelin fan in the Uk was cool until the 2007 reunion show!  I lived there from 1994-2010 and man up until 2007 it felt like a drought.  I spoke with hardly anyone about the band except if I was in the presence of Dave Lewis or something like that.  It was depressing.  

After they announced the O2 it was like all my life everyone around me had been a huge Zeppelin fan but didn't bother to tell me until just then.  I had friend who I'd know for year and years who knew I was a huge fan and never once did they even express an interest or liking for the band get all excited and tried to get tickets for the show.  

Edited by Eddiel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Eddiel said:

To be honest, I don't think being a Zeppelin fan in the Uk was cool until the 2007 reunion show!  I lived there from 1994-2010 and many up until 2007 it felt like a drought.  I spoke with hardly anyone about the band except if I was in the presence of Dave Lewis or something like that.  It was depressing.  

After they announced the O2 it was like all my life everyone around me had been a huge Zeppelin fan but didn't bother to tell me until just then.  I had friend who I'd know for year and years who knew I was a huge fan and never once did they even express an interest or liking for the band get all excited and tried to get tickets for the show.  

Hey! nobody ever wore a Led Zeppelin t-shirt ironically!

 It's interesting how people's personal experiences differ so much. Admittedly I'd never heard of them till the late 80's. Then again at that time I had no interest in music. After a "road to Damascus " moment just before my 14 th birthday I was hooked and discovered Led Zeppelin pretty quickly. Then there was Remasters and the box set followed by the reissues, BBC, DVD, HTWWW, TSRTS remaster, EDALD, not to mention the Page and Plant reunion and other peripherals like the gradually increasing use of their music in TV shows like Noel's House Party and Shooting Stars, Rolf Harris covering Stairway and Dread Zeppelin. I remember trips to Candem market where they always had a strong presence in the bootleg stalls. While I was teaching guitar in the late 90's  their songs were some of the most requested by the kids which shocked me a bit. The first time I recall was this 11 yr old kid who wanted me to teach him "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Moby Dick". There were often articles about them in the press and they began to be cited as an influence by artists other than metal acts. I think this certainly aided the re-establishment of their reputation and helped cement their cool factor form the years to come.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Eddiel said:

To be honest, I don't think being a Zeppelin fan in the Uk was cool until the 2007 reunion show!  I lived there from 1994-2010 and man up until 2007 it felt like a drought.  I spoke with hardly anyone about the band except if I was in the presence of Dave Lewis or something like that.  It was depressing.  

After they announced the O2 it was like all my life everyone around me had been a huge Zeppelin fan but didn't bother to tell me until just then.  I had friend who I'd know for year and years who knew I was a huge fan and never once did they even express an interest or liking for the band get all excited and tried to get tickets for the show.  

I really think they've not been that big here in the UK for decades. The general population hasn't got a clue who they are.

Page and Plant's names aren't in the same stratosphere as a Jagger, Lennon, or Townshend etc. (From what I can tell from acquaintances).

Their lack of interest in having their faces all over the media is down to this solely as Zeppelin is just as or more huge as any next classic rock band in Britain.

I like their covertness though. Makes being a fan all that more special. They are just ours!

Edited by TheStairwayRemainsTheSame

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still selling well

 

 
August 9, 2015

Thirty-six years after Led Zeppelin's In Through the Out Door topped the Billboard 200, the band's eighth studio album was back in the Top 10 this week as the LP's new reissue reentered the charts at Number Nine. In Through the Out Door sold an additional 24,000 total units in its return to the Billboard 200, where it spent seven weeks at Number One in 1979, Billboard reportsOut Door also scored the highest reentry among the Zeppelin reissues since IV bowed in at Number Seven in November 2014.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Growing up in Chicago and moving to Phoenix in 83' when I was 15 I can say geography plays a big role. Zep were still massive in Chicago in 83' and when I visited there in the late 80's & early 90's they were still very popular. In Phoenix however...different story. With the exception of KSLX (classic rock station) no other station would touch a Zep tune with a 10' poll until Robert released Now & Zen. I remember driving to school in 84' listening to Dave Pratt one morning and he even brought up the topic, saying what a crime it was that programmers refused to play the Zep tunes and would not allow DJ's to play them. Pratt then vowed to be the only station in Phoenix, if need be, outside of KSLX to play them. Pratt played quite a bit of Zep in 84' and even went so far as to cause some controversy when his band recorded and released his Anti-Jackson Rap to prevent Michael Jackson from performing in the Phx area. New Wave was king in Phoenix in the 80's...that and the real shitty "rock" bands like Bryan Adams, Corey Hart, Huey Lewis, Night Ranger was all over the god damned place on one end of the dial and Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, The Bangles, Bananarama, and the GoGo's on the other end. Now I like the Madonna - GoGo's stuff along with the New Wave and Goth stuff (Cure, Souixsie, Bauhaus, Joy Division, The Smiths) but fucking Corey Hart? Hell no.

Truth be told I hated Pratt, he was / is an arrogant asshole. However he played Zep so, whatcha gonna do?

Me thinks old Robert's decision to sell out his royalties had more to do with his divorce from Maureen and less to do with dwindling returns. What I would like to know, the $64,000,000 question if you will is who bought Robert's rights? Was it Jimmy? Was it Michael Jackson? What about Bubbles???

Edited by IpMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, IpMan said:

What I would like to know, the $64,000,000 question if you will is who bought Robert's rights? Was it Jimmy? Was it Michael Jackson? What about Bubbles???

I already discussed this. Selling (or waiving) his rights to receive royalties on Led Zeppelin's back catalog was part of the deal Peter Grant made with Atlantic Records to help Robert launch his own label, Esperanza Records, as well as his solo career. In other words, it was a business deal involving Robert Plant and Atlantic Records, no one else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

I already discussed this. Selling (or waiving) his rights to receive royalties on Led Zeppelin's back catalog was part of the deal Peter Grant made with Atlantic Records to help Robert launch his own label, Esperanza Records, as well as his solo career. In other words, it was a business deal involving Robert Plant and Atlantic Records, no one else.

So, Atlantic holds the rights and not some individual. Thanks Steve

Edited by IpMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2017 at 6:19 AM, SteveAJones said:

Elvis was exploited by Colonel Tom Parker in life and exploited by so many profiteers after his death. The King of Rock was reduced to the King of Kitsch, at least for many years. 

Well, Col Parker was very good in one way - at the end of the day, Elvis still owned his own recordings, his publishing rights, etc.  Did Col Parker make bad decisions in Elvis' career?  Sure.  Did Col Parker take a big piece of the pie sometimes?  Sure.  But out of his cut he did pay for all the promotion - I don't know.  I wouldn't say he exploited Elvis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, IpMan said:

Robert's decision to sell out his royalties had more to do with his divorce from Maureen and less to do with dwindling returns.

I agree with this statement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, JeffLZ said:

Well, Col Parker was very good in one way - at the end of the day, Elvis still owned his own recordings, his publishing rights, etc.  Did Col Parker make bad decisions in Elvis' career?  Sure.  Did Col Parker take a big piece of the pie sometimes?  Sure.  But out of his cut he did pay for all the promotion - I don't know.  I wouldn't say he exploited Elvis.

We should probably take this to the Elvis Presley thread, if there is one. I just want to point out one of the main reasons why Elvis played Vegas again and again and again is because Parker was routinely running up gambling debts in the casinos. THE main reason why Elvis never toured outside of the US and Hawaii is because Parker was living in the United States as an illegal immigrant. Elvis never knew that...it did not become known until years after Elvis' death. That was also why Parker contacted Peter Grant circa 1976 to inquire if he'd manage a UK tour when and if one should be seriously considered. Finally, Larry Geller has told the story of a semi-comatose Elvis being revived in his hotel room with buckets of ice water. When he expressed his concern about Elvis' health and well-being, Parker turned to him and said "The only thing that matters is that man is onstage tonight". Knowingly applying such damaging constraints to an entertainer's career and demonstrating such careless disregard for that person's health is exploitation of the highest order.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

We should probably take this to the Elvis Presley thread, if there is one. I just want to point out one of the main reasons why Elvis played Vegas again and again and again is because Parker was routinely running up gambling debts in the casinos. THE main reason why Elvis never toured outside of the US and Hawaii is because Parker was living in the United States as an illegal immigrant. Elvis never knew that...it did not become known until years after Elvis' death. That was also why Parker contacted Peter Grant circa 1976 to inquire if he'd manage a UK tour when and if one should be seriously considered. Finally, Larry Geller has told the story of a semi-comatose Elvis being revived in his hotel room with buckets of ice water. When he expressed his concern about Elvis' health and well-being, Parker turned to him and said "The only thing that matters is that man is onstage tonight". Knowingly applying such damaging constraints to an entertainer's career and demonstrating such careless disregard for that person's health is exploitation of the highest order.   

Ehhh,  did he exploited him, yes, to some degree but  The Colonel protected Elvis' financial interests and at some point a person has to take responsibility for themselves and Elvis did a very poor job of taking care of himself.   The Colonel was just a manager and not his parent. Was he supposed to tell Elvis what to do in his personal life? Peter Grant sure  didn't tell Jimmy Page how to live in his personal life  and he kept  booking  tours so was he  exploiting  Jimmy?   And Elvis played Las Vegas because it was a great gig and it paid very well.   But how about that band called Led Zeppelin? They were pretty good too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, JeffLZ said:

Ehhh,  did he exploited him, yes, to some degree but  The Colonel protected Elvis' financial interests and at some point a person has to take responsibility for themselves and Elvis did a very poor job of taking care of himself.   The Colonel was just a manager and not his parent. Was he supposed to tell Elvis what to do in his personal life? Peter Grant sure  didn't tell Jimmy Page how to live in his personal life  and he kept  booking  tours so was he  exploiting  Jimmy?   And Elvis played Las Vegas because it was a great gig and it paid very well.   But how about that band called Led Zeppelin? They were pretty good too. 

I think you missed my point. I never suggested The Colonel was responsible for Elvis' personal life. Actually, what I did say was The Colonel's personal life/circumstances (gambling addict, illegal immigrant) had an exploitive effect on Elvis' career and ultimately his health and well being. Elvis did enjoy Vegas the first couple of visits, but he came to hate it as it became a rut. That's not my opinion, that's the eyewitness accounts and testimony of The Memphis Mafia as they were called. The Grant/Page relationship is an apples to oranges comparison to the Parker/Presley relationship. Page was already a self-made, successful and established musician long before he ever met Peter Grant. Parker joined forces with Presley when he was just a hick, and he often exploited THAT. Whenever Elvis would get mad enough mad to say he was going to can the Colonel, Parker would go to Vernon and present him with his long list of alleged outstanding debts he expected to be resolved as part of any dissolution of their partnership. He did so because he knew Vernon, who also enjoyed living well beyond his means, would then go to Elvis and talk him down from the ledge. This pseudo-parental manipulation went on for years. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Parker should be utterly despised and damned to hell. I am saying Elvis was most definitely exploited by Parker. A better manager would have meant a better back catalog and ultimately a bigger legacy than devolving into "that guy in a jumpsuit who is always singing in Vegas".       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JeffLZ said:

Ehhh,  did he exploited him, yes, to some degree but  The Colonel protected Elvis' financial interests and at some point a person has to take responsibility for themselves and Elvis did a very poor job of taking care of himself.   The Colonel was just a manager and not his parent. Was he supposed to tell Elvis what to do in his personal life? Peter Grant sure  didn't tell Jimmy Page how to live in his personal life  and he kept  booking  tours so was he  exploiting  Jimmy?   And Elvis played Las Vegas because it was a great gig and it paid very well.   But how about that band called Led Zeppelin? They were pretty good too. 

Col Parker was a piece of shit, period. I could get into the details but I am not in the mood for a long post so, let this link to an excellent, well researched article set the record straight. So, let me introduce you to Andreas van Kuijk-Dries from Breda in the Netherlands, better known by his alias Col. Tom Parker:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/colonel-parker-managed-elvis-career-but-was-he-a-killer-on-the-lam-108042206/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, JeffLZ said:

Well, Col Parker was very good in one way - at the end of the day, Elvis still owned his own recordings, his publishing rights, etc.  Did Col Parker make bad decisions in Elvis' career?  Sure.  Did Col Parker take a big piece of the pie sometimes?  Sure.  But out of his cut he did pay for all the promotion - I don't know.  I wouldn't say he exploited Elvis.

He didn't for the times they were in. May even have been comaratively generous compared to how some managers were treating their "stars".

I think Elvis never travelled outside of the US because Col Parker had some residency issue and would not be able to follow Elivs overseas, so at the very least, he had an iron clad grip on his young star.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/27/2017 at 11:58 PM, IpMan said:

Growing up in Chicago and moving to Phoenix in 83' when I was 15 I can say geography plays a big role. Zep were still massive in Chicago in 83' and when I visited there in the late 80's & early 90's they were still very popular. In Phoenix however...different story.

 

 

Can definitely confirm. Grew up in the industrial cities north of Chicago - Zep was king, FLoyd was big, too. The girls loved Robin Zander from Cheap Trick and Kevin Cronin from REO. Punk rock? Didn't need it - we had AC/DC and Van Halen and Cheap Trick. It took a while but people became very interested in Rush and the Police after they kept making good albums. A lot of Rush fans, as I recall.  Duran Duran was very controversial. Prince was not - he was loved.

In 1986 the Firm concert at the Rosemount Horizon in Chi was a big deal. We were finally getting a chance to see Jimmy Page, there was quite a buzz. I was looking at Firm and Outrider tour dates recently and I can say he definitely did not play as many dates as he could have and should have in the Midwest. I was in Austin, TX (Stevie owned that town) and Florida (MTV dominated) during that tour, and there wasn't much buzz for the Zep or Jimmy in either place, nothing like the Midwest. When Jack White says "I don't really trust anybody who doesn't like Led Zeppelin," he's certainly speaking as one of us. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2017 at 4:17 PM, SteveAJones said:

...demonstrating such careless disregard for that person's health is exploitation of the highest order.   

much depth here

when the event becomes the event the only thing that matters is that the band is on stage- he was already dead while he was alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plant must have been REALLY rich already, so as to not even care about selling his Zeppelin rights. Only someone super filthy rich would do something like that, especially with a band as lucrative and legendary as LZ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Tea41 said:

Plant must have been REALLY rich already, so as to not even care about selling his Zeppelin rights. Only someone super filthy rich would do something like that, especially with a band as lucrative and legendary as LZ.

It was hard to tell in 1981-3 that CD's and all these formats where going to come out and sell millions again. He also was ridiculously in stubborn in trying to get away from Zeppelin and not be the "lemon squeezing banshee" anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now