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snapper

Houston 5/21/77

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kdh   

I will say it again. Peter Grant destroyed the video footage. Everyone can keep on with the x-files thought process, but here it is: It does not exist. The love of Zeppelin is the allure that something did happen when in reality it did not. Jimmy Page created that sensation and it still exists to this day. God bless him. I wish and hope that the Silverdome show is there, but good people, wake up. It was destroyed, hence the name of the Cleveland show.

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I will say it again. Peter Grant destroyed the video footage. Everyone can keep on with the x-files thought process, but here it is: It does not exist. The love of Zeppelin is the allure that something did happen when in reality it did not. Jimmy Page created that sensation and it still exists to this day. God bless him. I wish and hope that the Silverdome show is there, but good people, wake up. It was destroyed, hence the name of the Cleveland show.

Kdh... Pardon my lack of knowledge here, but were there not other copies...I believe there were several cameras....at the very least, unedited versions, "May" exist........

Also, the footage was very expensive to film those days...many costs involved, granted, Zep lived very lavish Rock Star lifestyle (yes, one too many damage deposits), but when it came to business decisions, I wonder how easy was it to destroy a whole film, expensive...

Personally, I would like to understand role of Showco, and other companies present in the venue...they were there...as fans, we can speculate as much as we want..

...Here is roadie who was present in Capitol Arean via Showco..on a different note, but nevertheless interesting to me at least...(I value input of the roadies who were there...)

http://www.roadogz.com/stories/getdowntonight.htm

A Dallas company called Showco was doing the sound and lights. When they had an unusually large venue (like the Capital Center rigged for maximum capacity), they would contract for “supplemental sound”. Basically another company (me in this case) would truck in PA equipment and stack it on top of the existing gear. Mics and boards weren’t needed, just extra PA. In fact only one roadie was needed so I was solo tonight. Drive to DC, unload, hook up to Showco, load, drive home, easy money.

Edited by PlanetPage

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tom kid   
I will say it again. Peter Grant destroyed the video footage. Everyone can keep on with the x-files thought process, but here it is: It does not exist. The love of Zeppelin is the allure that something did happen when in reality it did not. Jimmy Page created that sensation and it still exists to this day. God bless him. I wish and hope that the Silverdome show is there, but good people, wake up. It was destroyed, hence the name of the Cleveland show.

Still haven't cited any evidence that proves this...

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Yeah, I must admit I find this whole story about Peter Grant "destroying" film of the Pontiac Silverdome show a bit hard to swallow...shit, you'd think that if the show was filmed (there are still photos over at RO from the day where you can clearly see cameras on stage) they would have kept the film if for no other reason that it was another attendance record breaking show!

Now, if someone was to produce a direct quote from PG (from his biography or an interview or something) where he says something along the lines of, "Yeah, we fucking destroyed the fucking film of the fucking Pontiac Silverdome show, ya daft cunts!" (sorry, just channelling the big man for a moment there) then I'd say there's some truth to the claims. Otherwise I'm still convinced that whatever film that may exist is being hoarded, or just lost, simple as that. I lean towards it being lost- even additional partial pro shot '77 footage (or any year, of course) would be worth probably a considerable amount to bootleg labels, even a dyed-in-the-wool hoarder would probably find it too much of a temptation.

And I tend to doubt very much that "The Destroyer" bootleg title has anything to do with the Silverdome film...hasn't "The Destroyer" -either night, the 27th or 28th- been available on vinyl since right after the shows? Just sayin' B)

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You sound certain but you have not proved it.

Forgive my bluntness, but odds are ol' kdh is just trying to wind us all up, Mr Jones. Christ knows anyone can blather away on an internet forum (myself included, of course), but like I said, show us definitive proof that could possibly even stand up in a court of law...till then, as far as I'm concerned kdh's talk is just talk. And by "proof", again, I want to hear it right from Big G, as it were...none of this "Oh, I heard from so-and-so that so-and-so said such-and-such..." on and on bullshit...too many of those fucking games get played in the Zeppelin community as it is.

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tom kid   
Now, if someone was to produce a direct quote from PG (from his biography or an interview or something) where he says something along the lines of, "Yeah, we fucking destroyed the fucking film of the fucking Pontiac Silverdome show, ya daft cunts!" (sorry, just channelling the big man for a moment there) then I'd say there's some truth to the claims. Otherwise I'm still convinced that whatever film that may exist is being hoarded, or just lost, simple as that. I lean towards it being lost- even additional partial pro shot '77 footage (or any year, of course) would be worth probably a considerable amount to bootleg labels, even a dyed-in-the-wool hoarder would probably find it too much of a temptation.

Jimmy might have the footage stored away in his archives, I think that this is a big possibility.

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Forgive my bluntness, but odds are ol' kdh is just trying to wind us all up, Mr Jones. Christ knows anyone can blather away on an internet forum (myself included, of course), but like I said, show us definitive proof that could possibly even stand up in a court of law...till then, as far as I'm concerned kdh's talk is just talk. And by "proof", again, I want to hear it right from Big G, as it were...none of this "Oh, I heard from so-and-so that so-and-so said such-and-such..." on and on bullshit...too many of those fucking games get played in the Zeppelin community as it is.

... and IF the footage resides within the "premises" of any Band members...I don't see any reason monetary/legal reasons for locating/availability...

sorry, I think Jimmy Page would have made it available by now...I am sure his archives can be accessed at his own will...

IMO...the footage resides with Industry/Arena associates or someone close to them...they will release it for the right timing monetary value...beyond this, the legalities thereafter...don't know..

This post is not for accusation, but possibilities

Edited by PlanetPage

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This is true, TK- Jimmy may have the footage stashed away; it wouldn't surprise me if Page has stuff in the archives he forgot he had. Maybe our boy needs to take inventory! :lol:

Having said that...let's say JP does have the Silverdome film- what I don't get is, supposing he had access to pro shot footage of at least two '77 shows, including Seattle, why he didn't use any of it on the official DVD. Sure, maybe it wouldn't be multitrack audio, but considering he used audience shot film and bootleg audio (even if it is a Mike Millard recording that puts most official live albums to shame) his excuse that the '77 stuff he has "wasn't good enough quality" seems kinda lame...more likely Page avoided 1977 because it probably reminds him of the bad old days when he was a featherweight junkie who was struggling with his guitar playing...seeing the '83 ARMS footage would probably turn Jimmy's hair white, if it wasn't already...

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tom kid   
... and IF the footage resides within the "premises" of any Band members...I don't see any reason monetary/legal reasons for locating/availability...

sorry, I think Jimmy Page would have made it available by now...I am sure his archives can be accessed at his own will...

IMO...the footage resides with Industry/Arena associates or someone close to them...they will release it for the right timing monetary value...beyond this, the legalities thereafter...don't know..

This post is not for accusation, but possibilities

Jimmy is a perfectionist when it comes to live releases though, he seems very self-conscious of his own playing. Add that to the fact that the '77 tour wasn't multi tracked recorded.

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Jimmy is a perfectionist when it comes to live releases though, he seems very self-conscious of his own playing. Add that to the fact that the '77 tour wasn't multi tracked recorded.

...yes, agreed, I am most definitely aware of his perfect instincts... he can "select"...

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NickZepp   

Yeah Jimmy you could see a release of something that is multitracked like the 73 Southhampton show for example but you won't ever see Jimmy release something that is even a soundboard recording or a good bootleg like the Japan shows 71 unless he has it multitracked. Jimmy has said in interviews that he has no more Zeppelin stuff that he can release. I'm not sure if that's really true or not, maybe it is for his standards. But at least there's hundreds of bootlegs we can get with just some clicks on the internet. To me that doesn't matter if it's official it's still available.

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Jimmy has said in interviews that he has no more Zeppelin stuff that he can release. I'm not sure if that's really true or not, maybe it is for his standards.

He has a lot more than he let's on, but it's subjective how much of what remains unreleased would merit a commercial release he and the others could live with. I

would be thrilled to see them release all of their "home movies" from Japan and

Bombay and so forth but I understand the marketplace demand is minimal. Unless

they set up their own label for obscure releases such as the Grateful Dead have

done these films may not be released for years, if ever.

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tom kid   
This is true, TK- Jimmy may have the footage stashed away; it wouldn't surprise me if Page has stuff in the archives he forgot he had. Maybe our boy needs to take inventory! :lol:

Having said that...let's say JP does have the Silverdome film- what I don't get is, supposing he had access to pro shot footage of at least two '77 shows, including Seattle, why he didn't use any of it on the official DVD. Sure, maybe it wouldn't be multitrack audio, but considering he used audience shot film and bootleg audio (even if it is a Mike Millard recording that puts most official live albums to shame) his excuse that the '77 stuff he has "wasn't good enough quality" seems kinda lame...more likely Page avoided 1977 because it probably reminds him of the bad old days when he was a featherweight junkie who was struggling with his guitar playing...seeing the '83 ARMS footage would probably turn Jimmy's hair white, if it wasn't already...

Yeah this is what I also think. But I honestly don't think Jimmy would release anything that isn't multi-track. Look at TYG from Knebworth, this was going to be released but Jimmy's guitar track was missing.

But really, nothing from Seattle is worth releasing officially imo. Even the shows high points (NQ, imo) are not that great. Jimmy's playing is all over the place.

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Geezer   

I'm seriosuly starting to think that this show was proshot. I read somewhere that The Summit was one of the only arenas which had in-house audio/video production, especially in that time period.

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tom kid   

The video screens at the Summit were NOT used for this show. I don't know how many times I've said this on here but there is a member here (The Rover) who was present at the show and he said the video screen was not in use and nor could he see any cameramen on stage. The only way that this show could have been shot was from one angle in the private boxes I think, and this is a very minimal possibility. At least some of it would have seen the light of day by now if it did indeed exist.

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tom kid   

I'm seriosuly starting to think that this show was proshot. I read somewhere that The Summit was one of the only arenas which had in-house audio/video production, especially in that time period.

The Silverdome had video screens in use, as did the Pontiac Silverdome.

It seems strange to me that the band sold out 6 nights at the Forum and the Garden and didn't think to film any of those shows, if even for their own perosnal collections. They were breaking records left right and centre, you would think they would have liked to have document it in some way.

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Geezer   

The video screens at the Summit were NOT used for this show. I don't know how many times I've said this on here but there is a member here (The Rover) who was present at the show and he said the video screen was not in use and nor could he see any cameramen on stage. The only way that this show could have been shot was from one angle in the private boxes I think, and this is a very minimal possibility. At least some of it would have seen the light of day by now if it did indeed exist.

I wouldn't exclude the possibility of a camera positioned somewhere here:

8e6defda1fb07458b90e786a2a52b032.png

This is a screenshot off of The Who's concert in 1975 at The Summit.

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The Silverdome had video screens in use, as did the Pontiac Silverdome.

It seems strange to me that the band sold out 6 nights at the Forum and the Garden and didn't think to film any of those shows, if even for their own perosnal collections. They were breaking records left right and centre, you would think they would have liked to have document it in some way.

What I'm starting to believe in is that what we think that doesn't exist, Jimmy has it!! And there is no way that at least one show from 1977 wasn't multi tracked. Jimmy said it himself that he just couldn't find any, that doesn't mean he doesn't have them. It would be darn logical to film or record something in the auge of their careers, wich in 1977 was happening. But we are all just supposing here!

I read somebody earlier in the thread saying that we shouldn't disregard the possibility of existence just because not a bit had surfaced, as it happened to the forum show from 1972, where no soundboards where known to exist, yet, Jimmy pulled off an amazing concert recorded 40 years ago that nobody new existed. It makes sense people!! And im not even considering the option of PG destroiyng his bands tapes. That doesn't make sense.

Didn't Jimmys house get robbed in the 80's? Just add that to the mixture.

EDIT: About the summit show - Well it's very weird to think that out of all the bands that played there and have filmed their shows in pro shot at the venue - from Aerosmith to Queen and Kiss, all in 1977, LED ZEPPELIN, way bigger than any of that, wouldn't think about recording it, specially if the venue had in house audio and video to use.

Edited by magerogue

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Geezer   
LED ZEPPELIN, way bigger than any of that, wouldn't think about recording it, specially if the venue had in house audio and video to use.

That's exactly why I think the show might have been filmed.

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That's exactly why I think the show might have been filmed.

Well it makes sense, doesn't it!? But if people who actually went to the show said that the screens weren't even used and no camera men was seen on stage, kinda kills our theary, huh? Edited by magerogue

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Taro: Texas Sports Investments, LLC operated the Summit from its inception in 1975 and filmed every event, both small and large, franchise lease events (Rockets etc) and short term venue rental. CCTV1 for security, CCTV2 split for security/monitors- both had mono audio. By 1977 the first upgrade to the CCTV equipment was made with additional cameras in more zones and with improved RCA audio. Far from "pro shot." Secondly, the professional sports teams had stand alone recording equipment installed. These guys had access to record anything they wanted from multiple angles simulatneously. They used them for practice and games.

House recordings were on Type C tape and were often used multiple times erasing and recording over what was previously there. Anyone can say anything, in addition to the house recordings and the sports guys recording(maybe) I simply have to believe that 5/21 was pro-shot even if done so internally by Showco or the like. LZ was on fire and I don't know anyone who could have passed up the opportunity to record this if only for selfish reasons.

Someone has it, likely several someones.

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