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irondirigible

I refuse to believe there won't be any more official release of live albums.

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11 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

What about all the ghost notes played on a bass drum that aren't heard, but felt; the use of the bass drum in complicated fills (he often inserts the bass drums between toms in that classic triplet fill); the subtle changes in force he hits the pedal (it's not just a thud at one volume level); etc, etc.

You're talking about reducing an art form to a "thud" inserted by an algorithm.

It would be an insult to Bonham's legacy and talent.

I'm all for fixing up the odd note and bum vocal here and there, but creating a whole bass drum score and pasting it in.

Nah, it wouldn't work and Page wouldn't entertain it.

Was that meant for me??

And for the record, I agree with you-Page wouldn't entertain this for 1/2 second.

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I too agree that Page would not support that idea.  Things like that (inserting a totally external sound) can be done and are done, but it just wouldn't be right

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Although, for the O2 dvd/cd, Jimmy was quite happy to let Alan Moulder add 'samples to beef up the kick and snare with a Native Instruments Battery 3 cell.' No, I dunno what that means either, but apparently, 'The reason we added these samples was for extra clarity and to add low-end weight on the kick drum, and also to add a little bit more body to the snare...I added a Waves Renaissance Bass plug-in for some low harmonics, to give it some beef. I had the Battery cell on another track, and all the sample kick sounds went to yet another track, and the live and sample kicks came up on different channels on the board, where I balanced them. It was the same with the snare tracks. I had also set up some drum reverb plug-ins'. That's quite a lot of 'external sounds' added to the mix that weren't there on the original recordings. How much of that info Jimmy wanted to get out is another matter!

http://www.soundonsound.com/people/inside-track-mixing-led-zeppelin-reunion 

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9 hours ago, irondirigible said:

I too agree that Page would not support that idea.  Things like that (inserting a totally external sound) can be done and are done, but it just wouldn't be right

 

HA~!  Page did this countless times and used foreign sound not associated with a particular show and mixed it in

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2 hours ago, SymphonyX said:

 

HA~!  Page did this countless times and used foreign sound not associated with a particular show and mixed it in

yep! the Southampton 73 mellotron that was 'flown in' on HTWWW 's Stairway to Heaven instead of the original Hammond organ track is proof of that. 

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On ‎05‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:00 PM, Dallas Knebs said:

 

For Celebration Day, which was taken as a single waveform, drum samples were used throughout as needed. If you listen for them you can hear them. If you didn't know this was the case, you probably didn't notice.

 

I hadn't heard of this before. any particular examples you can point me to?

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8 minutes ago, jsj said:

I hadn't heard of this before. any particular examples you can point me to?

In the sound on sound article posted further upthread, Alan Moulder says he put tom samples on Ramble On, as the original mix was a bit muddy and the drums got lost in the sound (I think he said that anyway, not being a sound techie frankly I could understand about 20% of the article, brilliant job though!).

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Generally speaking, what is the sound (recording quality) like for the 2007 live concert album (Celebration Day)?   I have read reviews on this that vary widely.  Its the only official LZ recording that I do not own.  I'll probably get it no matter what but I am curious to see what people here think about it in terms of the sonic quality only 

Edited by irondirigible

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On 6/6/2017 at 9:56 AM, chillumpuffer said:

I saw Patti Smith and she was fantastic - in my top 3 gigs ever. I blame Todd Rundgren myself :D

Could not agree more on Patti Smith- and no doubt about TR, kind of a special label mutant. Your post really made me think.

Think about the audiences. Such a VIP/Corporate audience environment now- and I speak in terms of audience appreciation for the artist. Anyone who has gigged/toured knows what I mean since we have all played in front of drunks and punks that were just there taking up space.  Sometimes we got an amazing audience that really gave all they had yet that didn't happen all that often. The scene became the scene- a place to be seen.

I understand people showing up to be seen- think about the O2. People walking around- probably didn't know better- and being generally nonchalant about the music.

Just bought tickets to The Eagles in Dodger Stadium in a few weeks. $2,750 for front row VIP package. Granted its a 2day deal with other artists however that price is just fleecing people.

Back on topic tho...

Add a kick to Earls Court [below] and it is every bit as good as Celebration Day... or better. I do not think it is disingenuous to use sample or borrow lines from other performances if the point is to release an effort for people to enjoy.  TSRTS was a quilt of patchwork from the first moment work began.

 

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Not to digress from this thread, but not everyone at the O2 gig were not just there "to be seen".  I got there at 0700 hours the day of the show and I was the 42nd person in line.  Those in the front of the line had camped out there for TWO DAYS!  Everyone around me were die-hard fans - we talked Zep the entire day.  One kid even dug out his acoustic guitar and we passed it around playing Zep tunes on it while others sang along.  People shared their food and drink.  If someone had to go to bathroom, the others held their spot in line (security at the event questioned everyone trying to "cut in line) and when that person came back, the others in line would say "Nah, he's cool, this is his/her spot".  it was like the 70's concerts all over again.  I had a standing ticket and was front row between Robert and Jimmy.  I had a better "seat" than Brian May and Marilyn Manson who were seated about 20 rows up, to the right of the stage on the first tier!

I won't even bore you on my tales of trying to get a ticket to that show......but I was going to be there no matter what it took!

  

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1 hour ago, Stryder1978 said:

Not to digress from this thread, but not everyone at the O2 gig were not just there "to be seen".  I got there at 0700 hours the day of the show and I was the 42nd person in line.  Those in the front of the line had camped out there for TWO DAYS!  Everyone around me were die-hard fans - we talked Zep the entire day.  One kid even dug out his acoustic guitar and we passed it around playing Zep tunes on it while others sang along.  People shared their food and drink.  If someone had to go to bathroom, the others held their spot in line (security at the event questioned everyone trying to "cut in line) and when that person came back, the others in line would say "Nah, he's cool, this is his/her spot".  it was like the 70's concerts all over again.  I had a standing ticket and was front row between Robert and Jimmy.  I had a better "seat" than Brian May and Marilyn Manson who were seated about 20 rows up, to the right of the stage on the first tier!

I won't even bore you on my tales of trying to get a ticket to that show......but I was going to be there no matter what it took!

  

I dunno... your tales of trying to get a ticket could be interesting.  Did you go by yourself or with others?

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I went alone - it was hard enough to find a single ticket.  The hunt involved calling and e-mailing radio stations, record companies, getting scammed by a ticket broker in London, the fear of buying the "pass codes" off Ebay and finally finding a guy in Ireland that was lucky enough to win the ticket lottery and had a brother who couldn't go! It cost, but was worth EVERY penny!

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I really wish for the early Zeppelin to be released like the Denmark session and definitely the Royal Albert Hall. RAH also has the best version of Moby Dick and you can only listen to it on YouTube which sucks for die hard Zeppelinites. 

 

One thing I don't understand is why Robert Plant says he doesn't want to release those recordings? Those are some of the best sounds from early not-album Zeppelin 

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7 hours ago, TheMadIrishman said:

RAH also has the best version of Moby Dick and you can only listen to it on YouTube which sucks for die hard Zeppelinites. 

 

:o. You could buy the DVD and listen to it in glorious sound at home on a DVD player, hooked up to an amp. Or do they not have such things in Ireland?

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17 hours ago, TheMadIrishman said:

I really wish for the early Zeppelin to be released like the Denmark session and definitely the Royal Albert Hall. RAH also has the best version of Moby Dick and you can only listen to it on YouTube which sucks for die hard Zeppelinites. 

 

One thing I don't understand is why Robert Plant says he doesn't want to release those recordings? Those are some of the best sounds from early not-album Zeppelin 

I can hook you up with ...pm if you're interested. 

Edited by porgie66

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<_<

1 hour ago, Dallas Knebs said:

I thought it was bootleggers code to only trade...

Edited by porgie66

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All this recorded material is out there.  And recording/editing technology only increases.  Plus there's money to be made.  So this equation, in my mind, guarantees more live albums in the future.

Of course, the reality is that compact disc sales have been steadily dropping for many years now.  But LP sales are grabbing a share as a niche market and digital sales are through the roof.

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14 minutes ago, irondirigible said:

All this recorded material is out there.  And recording/editing technology only increases.  Plus there's money to be made.  So this equation, in my mind, guarantees more live albums in the future.

Of course, the reality is that compact disc sales have been steadily dropping for many years now.  But LP sales are grabbing a share as a niche market and digital sales are through the roof.

Don't know how much more is out there... could be a lot, could be very little, to nothing.  I want what we know exists, that hasn't been released yet.  Like the rest of the 6/25 & 6/27/72 shows (ESPECIALLY Louie, Louie and Thank You) and the remainder of the EC shows (ESPECIALLY STH and TU from the 24th.).  Jesus, make them available flac downloads somewhere... I'd spend A LOT of money per song if this was done. Makes no sense that we don't have STH and TU from 5/24/75.  Some of the band's best playing EVER.

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In a nutshell, what prevents this material getting out?  Is it ownership rights and their control over it?   And beyond that, is it simply Page/Plant's preference that it not get released because they don't like it or don't feel it represents their best work?

If this stuff were packaged as an official release I would INSTANTLY buy 

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Basically, Page is the driving force behind it all. There has not been any official LZ release without Page´s supervision. IT is 99% HE who decides what, whan and how to put releases into the market.  

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7 hours ago, LedElvis75 said:

Don't know how much more is out there... could be a lot, could be very little, to nothing.  I want what we know exists, that hasn't been released yet.  Like the rest of the 6/25 & 6/27/72 shows (ESPECIALLY Louie, Louie and Thank You) and the remainder of the EC shows (ESPECIALLY STH and TU from the 24th.).  Jesus, make them available flac downloads somewhere... I'd spend A LOT of money per song if this was done. Makes no sense that we don't have STH and TU from 5/24/75.  Some of the band's best playing EVER.

Absolutely. For example , the version of Dazed and Confused from Long Beach 72 is monstrous, especially Page's playing. To have both concerts available would be welcomed by Zep lovers in a heartbeat. If all those multi tracks exist then having a HTWWW 2 would be amazing. CD , vinyl ( more expensive to produce) , Hi-Res downloads, whatever...just put it out there! Zep fans are starved for more live material. I doubt it wouldn't be a cost effective endeavor. 

Edited by porgie66

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7 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Absolutely. For example , the version of Dazed and Confused from Long Beach 72 is monstrous, especially Page's playing. To have both concerts available would be welcomed by Zep lovers in a heartbeat. If all those multi tracks exist then having a HTWWW 2 would be amazing. CD , vinyl ( more expensive to produce) , Hi-Res downloads, whatever...just put it out there! Zep fans are starved for more live material. I doubt it wouldn't be a cost effective endeavor. 

Yep-exactly what I'm talking about. I'd be all over those Hi-Res downloads like a homeless man on a bologna sandwich.

How hard could that possibly be?!! The D&C you mentioned above and Thank You from the 25th is absolutely GLORIOUS. If the royalty shit prevents you from putting out stuff like Louie, Louie and some of the other tracks inside WLL, fine.

But what exactly is the reason for not having STH and TU from 5/24/75?!! Those are two of the best performances from that entire year (and that STH might just be a top 3 Page moment live on stage).

Give it to us!!

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