Blaming Neil Young for Coldplay is way out of line. Especially for a Canadian. But it's clear why this group would be desperate to associate themselves with a musician who has artistic integrity. Long Live The Horse!

I'm thoroughly convinced Neil Young thinks for himself and always has.

Led Zeppelin was not a bigger draw than bands that had more mainstream appeal. It's simple math.

But other than your pretentious personal tastes, what is that conclusion based on? I don't understand how "Duece" is not a R&R classic in the same league as "Satisfaction" or "Communication Breakdown". It has raw, honest energy played by a band with an original sound. How else do you define R&R? Pretty please, with sugar on top, substantiate your claim. Is it really the make-up and flashpots? The Stones used make-up and flashpots. The Stones dabbled in disco. Gimmicks? All three of these bands had gimmicks coming out their asses. What's your actual knowledge of the band and their songs? They're not a great band because you don't like them? That's weak sauce. I bet you can do better. Otherwise you're talking out your ass.

"Abba? Abba? Swedish? I knew them when they were a Lancaster club-dancing trio" Although it pains me to agree with SAJ on anything, it's really not fair to compare Zep and The Stones as attractions in the 70's. It's easier to point out the differences than to compare the similarities. Going back to the sixties, The Stones have always been a part of American mainstream culture. They were a hit machine in the 60's and the 70's, on the radio, and in the mainstream media. Zeppelin and KISS were never mainstream, especially in the seventies. All three bands surely shared some of the same fanbase, but Zep and Kiss likely had fewer casual fans. So it is a credit to these two that they filled arenas with a limited audience. It does make more sense to compare Zep and KISS or The Stones and The Eagles. The truth is all of these bands sold lots of tickets and albums and were very successful. Any respect due Abba (Abba?), a pop vocal group, is most certainly due the producer. I mean, if you like "Dancing Queen", how can you not dig "I Was Made For Loving You"? It's all music for shakin' yer ass, right? As far as the "I hate KISS" badge of honor hogwash, I've got three words for you: "Whole Lotta Love". A three note riff, barely two chords, cheesy lyrics, and a bunch of sound effects. Who's gimmick free? If you think you're too cool for KISS, you ain't. If you don't like KISS, fine. But of you don't get KISS, you don't get Rock & Roll. Very few bands are more Rock & Roll than KISS. They've been successful doing their thing their way for 40+ years in spite of haters and and a lack of support from the mainstream media (kinda like Zep except for the longevity). I'd say that deserves some respect.

If the contributions of John Bonham and the chemistry between the four band members doesn't speak for itself, then I guess we're going to agree to disagree.

Fair enough. I do whole heartedly agree 1970-09-19 is a top 5 if not the top Zep show of all. Very special. I'm still not sure it's "easy at first bite" sound wise. But if you can turn somebody on to it, more power to you. And thank you for referencing Providence. It's been a while so I put it on today and it stopped me in my tracks. My new current favorite.

I really like the angle of this thread. Taking the mountain of material we have and narrowing it down to the most listenable performances that define the band's greatness. A challenge for sure with no real wrong or right answers. But it's obvious Mr. K is an informed fan and is looking beyond official releases. Let's review the parameters of Mr. K's challenge. -A list of five separate shows. He mentions this 3 times. -Nothing from 79/80 -Sound quality better than Providence 73 (sorry 1970-09-19!) -Shows with sustained energy, hell-dog perfection, variety, and great Plantations. -Shows which provide a valid explanation for burnt pot roast. My journey started with 1977-06-23. A high generation tape dub with lots of hiss that played fast. I still got sucked in, and for the reasons Mr. K is trying to spotlight. . It appears to me Mr. K is taking it a step beyond official releases and looking to lay some raw truth on someone. He knows what he wants. And if this forum can't help him, who can?

You lost me when you wanted to start comparing 1973 to 1980. If you're going to bother listening to Tour Over Europe, you have to accept it for what is is. It's another, different chapter of Led Zeppelin. I'll never accuse any of the '80 shows of being perfect, but i still enjoy listening to them. I'll also check out a four car pileup if i pass one on the freeway. (No analogy intended, of course) What's that old saying? One man's glimmer of hope is another man's wet book of matches.

1970-03-07 Montreux 1971-09-14 Berkeley 1973-03-24 Offenbach 1975-03-12 Long Beach 1977-06-23 Los Angeles

Contempt for the audience and/or the city? I think he's just disgusted with the acoustics of the venue. Otherwise he's business as usual.

Some of the frustration with Tour Over Europe is that none of the shows stand out in their entirety as knockout performances. This playlist ties some great moments together for a nice listen. My favorite moments are sprinkled throughout the tour, but my go-to shows have become Cologne and Hannover.

Excellent playlist worthy of compulsive listening.

Perfect Strangers Is not only a great album but a knockout comeback album. And despite production woes of the era. Certainly a more solid statement for Purple than Chocolate Factory has been for Primus. "Your lights are burning bright, but nobody's home"

There aren't any good songs on Perfect Strangers, Abandon, or Purpendicular (to begin with)? "Wring That Neck" isn't a worthy jam? Shit.

Led Zeppelin Live - Luis Rey

An omission in my list of omissions: The Flamin' Groovies Greil Marcus: "When I came up with the idea of the book (The History of Rock n Roll in 10 Songs) and had a sense of what I was going to do, I knew from that instant that the first song—the first chapter in the book—would be “Shake Some Action” by the Flamin’ Groovies. For years and years whenever I heard that song, on the radio or just playing it myself, I just thought, this is it. This is what rock ‘n’ roll is. Everything I want it to be. This could have been the first rock ‘n’ roll record. It could have been the last rock ‘n’ roll record. It has a spirit. It has a drive. It has a melodic momentum. It has a beat that didn’t exist before rock ‘n’ roll. It didn’t happen in the 50s or 60s; it happened in 1972 and wasn’t even heard until 1976. But none of that matters. This is more the thing itself than any other record I know". I've been waiting a long time for someone to agree with me on this.

Ick. This is like watered down Maroon 5. The over the top faux emotions are vomit inducing. Safe music for people who are desperate to belong.

Here's a short list just from the 70's: Jim Croce Gordon Lightfoot Joni Mitchell Neil Young Harry Chapin Bob Dylan James Taylor Don McLean Joan Baez Neil Diamond Maria Muldaur Carly Simon Arlo Guthrie John Denver Willie Nelson Waylon Jennings Bruce Springsteen Townes Van Zandt Paul Simon Patti Smith Stevie Wonder Paul McCartney John Lennon George Harrison Nick Drake Kris Kristofferson Johnny Cash Billy Joe Shaver Bill Withers Curtis Mayfield Lowell George Leo Kottke Jackson Browne Iggy Pop Gerry Rafferty Elton John/Bernie Taupin David Allen Coe Crosby, Stills, Nash The 70's was actually a time of great variety. It's often referred to as the singer-songwriter decade. Time will tell if any of the current crop will be remembered and overplayed in 40 years.

My -Tribute To Ronnie James Dio- Playlist 1973-06-10 ELF "Nevermore" Going Down Live at The Bank, Cortland, NY 1974 ELF "Rocking Chair Rock n Roll Blues" L.A. 59 1975 ELF "Prentice Wood" Trying To Burn The Sun 1975 Rainbow "Self Portrait" Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow 1976 Rainbow "A Light In The Black" Rising 1977 Rainbow "Catch The Rainbow" On Stage 1978 Rainbow "L.A. Connection","The Shed","Rainbow Eyes" Long Live Rock n Roll 1978 Rainbow "Man On The Silver Mountain" Finyl Vinyl Live in Atlanta 1980 Black Sabbath "Neon Knights" Heaven And Hell 1980-10-17 Black Sabbath "Heaven And Hell" Live at Nassau Coliseum 1981 Black Sabbath "Turn Up The Night" The Mob Rules 1982 Black Sabbath "Children Of The Sea" Live Evil 1983 DIO "Stand Up And Shout" Holy Diver 1984 DIO "Evil Eyes" The Last In Line 1984-10-05 DIO "The Last In Line" Live in London 1985 DIO "Sacred Heart" Sacred Heart 1987 DIO "I Could Have Been A Dreamer" Dream Evil 1987-10-04 DIO "Stars" Live in Tokyo 1990 DIO "Wild One" Lock Up The Wolves 1992 Black Sabbath "TV Crimes" Dehumanizer 1992-09-08 Black Sabbath "Time Machine" Live in Boston 1994 DIO "Strange Highways" Strange Highways 1996 DIO "Golden Rules" Angry Machines 2000 DIO "Turn to Stone" Magica 2002 DIO "Better In the Dark" Killing The Dragon 2004 DIO "I Am" Master Of The Moon 2007 Heaven and Hell "Lonely Is The Word" Live at Radio City Music Hall 2009 Heaven and Hell "Breaking Into Heaven" The Devil You Know All Hail Ronnie James Dio A man who dedicated his life to his vision, his fans, and rock and roll.

So if I understand Chuckles correctly, N.W.A. belongs in the hall and Springteen and Dylan don't? (Wrong) He probably thinks Madonna deserves her spot (She Doesn't). And that's the real problem. That there is no universal definition for rock n roll. It means one thing to me, another to you, something else to him, and whatever to Chucky. It's all subjective and ultimately, it's a nice but flawed idea. But this isn't a general music hall of fame. It's the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Well, RnR according to Jan Wenner's narrow tastes. And if you can agree Jan and is crew are the problem, then you need to ask yourself if you can be objective enough to judge a band or artist on their own merits rather than on whether they are your personal cup o' tea. And also consider that hits and popularity aren't the best way to determine a great rock band's effect on culture and influence on the bands who followed in their footsteps. Along with Deep Purple, the most notable current omissions would be The MC5, Blue Oyster Cult, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Thin Lizzy. But really, fuckin' Sting as a solo artist? What a slap in the face to rock n roll. Michael Bolton and David Hassellhoff can't be far behind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW59FXjwzVs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfDoUIh23Wg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSo9CC2wKVI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NGKDx4DqXA

"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines and dates by which bills must be paid" - FZ "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - FZ "With a tongue like a cow she can make you go wow" - FZ