Revolution?

[Nathan]

Is America on the Verge of Revolution?

From Crooks & Liars:

The right-wing media have been aghast at the unpleasant realities being reported about all those shouters and disruptors at town-hall forums -- namely, that their anger is being ginned up by corporate interests using right-wing populists to derail their political opponents; and that their ranks are riddled with extremists.

And to the extent that the critics of these protesters try to portray the scenes as purely a product of corporate machinations, they have a point. There is real anger out there, and the anti-reform interests are successfully tapping into it.

But the anger they're tapping into is not a new thing; in fact, it's been around a long time. It's a larger anger at the federal government, stoked (as we've seen in the health-care debate) by a combination of real grievances and a pathological belief in explanations for those grievances that are provably untrue, wrapped in paranoid conspiracy theories about government officials and a conspiracist view of history.

In the 1990s, they called themselves militias or "Patriots." Nowadays, they're organizing around the so-called "tea parties" and now the health-care town halls. These are the wellspring of the anger at these meetings -- but this faction has a long history of being motivated by anger anyway.

This is not to downplay the vital role behind the scenes being played by ostensibly mainstream conservative operations, fueled by corporate money. Adele Stan at AlterNet has a thoroughly devastating expose of the machinations behind the protests, beginning with Dick Armey's FreedomWorks operation all the way down to the Birther nutcases who are bubbling up at these shows.

Indeed, Stan gets what the rest of the media are missing: Not only are business and conservative interests ginning up these protests, but they're doing so by empowering far-right extremists from the fringe.

We've been reporting steadily on this phenomenon as it's been happening. Perhaps the best signifier of this empowerment and energizing of the far right on the behalf of the mainstream right is the fact that every single right-wing extremist organization and forum -- ranging from far-right hate groups and white supremacists, such as Stormfront.org, to "Patriot"/militia organizations such as the Militia of Montana and the Constitution Party, to Bircherite conspiracists like Ron Paul and his followers -- are avidly advocating involvement in the "tea parties" and the health-care protests.

And these folks, frankly, are beginning to talk openly of armed revolt. This is something that used to be relegated strictly to the fringes of the far right; now, it's being openly discussed at WorldNetDaily, which ran a poll with the following headline:

SOMETHING IN THE AIR

Is America on the verge of revolution?

The results:

That's right: Fully 95 percent of WND's readership believes we're on the verge of revolution -- and openly welcome it, with mildly varying rationales.

There is a lot of anger out there. There's also a lot of fear. Both are manifested, I think, in the video I found above at YouTube, titled, "Are Red State Americans Ready for War?" You can see the answer, set to the dulcet tones of "Redneck Rampage." I've interspersed it with outtakes of news reports about the ongoing ammo shortage out there in rural America.

So when Glenn Beck starts urging his audience not to indulge in acts of violence, the most disturbing fact is that it's not only necessary to issue such warnings, it's probably futile. Indeed, the pleading -- such as it is -- in the end probably just winds up giving them ideas.

It's true that people like Beck and the rest of the Fox crew are an important cog in the machinery that sets these protests in motion. But we also need to be aware of just who they're setting in motion, because that will have a profound effect on the outcome.

This comes out not long after a guy brings a gun to Obama's Town Hall meeting.

I'm sorry... but this is getting out of hand...

[zosodude13]

It's the cry of the minority. Any minority will always feel oppressed when they are not in control. Just ask liberals during the Bush presidency the last 8 years. They felt the same way about revolution as right wingers are today. Both sides are equally extreme in their views and a revolution is not the answer. If you asked me if I supported revolution during the Bush administration, I probably would have said yes. Why? Because my ideological beliefs were not in control of out country. All the "birthers" and tea party and town hall protesters feel the same way. I was and they are cry babies upset over not getting what they wanted. A call for "revolution" is nothing but a temper tantrum and knee jerk reaction.

The country will continue to shift between left and right and there will never be a time when either side will be in complete control for a long time.

It's only when a majority are offended by the government that anything would happen, see Iran as an example.

A new generation is in control of the white house. The baby boomers time is coming to an end and Generation X is beginning their time as the dominant force in our government. The generation gap is a big reason for the radicalism that is alive today. Just look at the turbulence between the baby boomers and the greatest generation during the 60's and 70's. It's never pretty.

Don't read too much into extremists. They never represent the majority in any ideology, religion or country. That's why their never in control and never get what they want, even if their bark is the loudest.

[Nathan]

I know. I just wish they'd shut up, sometimes.

My views aren't exactly being represented in the government, either, but they never have and they never will. I honestly believe both sides of the coin are corrupt, corporate-owned, run by a want of power, and neither sides give two shits what we, the people, want. I'm a Centrist. I want to see a Government comprised of equal parts Conservative and equal parts Liberal with a President who can make the compromise that will constantly please everyone. A Government that actually gives a shit about the people it controls.

We didn't get that under Bush, and it's no different now. One could make the case that we never did have that type of Government.

Why? Simple. Because the only people who run for Government want the power. And these are the very people who should stay far away from power. That, unfortunately, is the Catch-22 of power. The people who want power don't deserve it, but the people who deserve it want nothing to do with it. So who do we vote for, then?

[zosodude13]

I know. I just wish they'd shut up, sometimes.

My views aren't exactly being represented in the government, either, but they never have and they never will. I honestly believe both sides of the coin are corrupt, corporate-owned, run by a want of power, and neither sides give two shits what we, the people, want. I'm a Centrist. I want to see a Government comprised of equal parts Conservative and equal parts Liberal with a President who can make the compromise that will constantly please everyone. A Government that actually gives a shit about the people it controls.

We didn't get that under Bush, and it's no different now. One could make the case that we never did have that type of Government.

Why? Simple. Because the only people who run for Government want the power. And these are the very people who should stay far away from power. That, unfortunately, is the Catch-22 of power. The people who want power don't deserve it, but the people who deserve it want nothing to do with it. So who do we vote for, then?

A common interest would be the ideal government where both sides have a fair say. It never will happen and we agree on that. I express myself as liberal in the fact it is the existing side I agree with the most and thus the side I support. A true centerist system would be the side I would follow before any other. But it's hard to do that when it doesn't exist.

I always felt direct democracy would help many of the problems regarding the gap between government the people, abolishing such systems as the Electoral College would be a major step in the right direction.

The last thing we need is a revolution, when the political gap between the Americans political parties is minuscule compared to other countries in the world. My AP government teacher expressed it the best way I can think of. She that that if politics could be measured on a scale of -10 to +10, with -10 being pure left, +10 being pure right and 0 being center, America never has gone beyond a +/-2. Neither extreme is cause for revolution.

We are in actuality better suited towards towards reaching compromise and 0, but neither side will relinquish their ideologies for a compromise with the "enemy". And that sucks.

[eternal light]

I suggest chamomile tea on ice should be served as refreshments at these events just to lower everyone's blood pressure a notch.

[Aquamarine]

It might help to turn the rhetoric down a notch, too. There are a number of countries in the world where revolution is a real possibility right now--this isn't one of them.

[Nathan]

A common interest would be the ideal government where both sides have a fair say. It never will happen and we agree on that. I express myself as liberal in the fact it is the existing side I agree with the most and thus the side I support. A true centerist system would be the side I would follow before any other. But it's hard to do that when it doesn't exist.

Amen.

I always felt direct democracy would help many of the problems regarding the gap between government the people, abolishing such systems as the Electoral College would be a major step in the right direction.

Oh I would support that move 1000%. Getting rid of the Electoral College would be incredible, as far as I'm concerned.

The last thing we need is a revolution, when the political gap between the Americans political parties is minuscule compared to other countries in the world. My AP government teacher expressed it the best way I can think of. She that that if politics could be measured on a scale of -10 to +10, with -10 being pure left, +10 being pure right and 0 being center, America never has gone beyond a +/-2. Neither extreme is cause for revolution.

I agree with you completely. I certainly don't want a revolution.

We are in actuality better suited towards towards reaching compromise and 0, but neither side will relinquish their ideologies for a compromise with the "enemy". And that sucks.

Exactly.

I suggest chamomile tea on ice should be served as refreshments at these events just to lower everyone's blood pressure a notch.

Better yet... Marijuana. They may all forget what they were talking about, but better that then the (this is pure speculation with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, now) alcohol-fueled rage we're seeing.

It might help to turn the rhetoric down a notch, too. There are a number of countries in the world where revolution is a real possibility right now--this isn't one of them.

I agree. It isn't my rhetoric after all. I just think this whole thing is incredibly stupid.

[ZPN]

I am really getting to the point where I'm disgusted with my country. Not just the government. I thought it would be better once Bush/Cheney were gone. A very MODERATE to CONSERVATIVE Democrat like Obama gets in office, not to mention a moderate to conservative Democratic majority in Congress, and this is what they do? They are so delusional when they say he's "socialist" and liberal! And that the media has a liberal bias. I WISH! We'd finally get Single Payer then! Not to mention we'd stop all these goddamn wars and spend the money on things like health care, education, and affordable housing. These people embarass and anger me. They are SO ignorant and prejudiced. I'm to the point where I'd consider moving to another country, but as far as I know, you have to have a very specialized skill in order to do that.

I've always been for peace and non-violence, but when I see these people on tv, yelling about socialism and communism and so on, I get really upset. And the people like Palin who lie and incite so much hate, bordering on inciting violence. She is a joke: she is dumber than a rock; she QUIT the job she was elected to do, (as she has quit things before), and people still take her seriously!? If she can't handle being Governor of a state with a small population, what makes people think she can handle the presidency?! If the other side starts using violence first, what are we to do? I'm afraid of these people. The scary thing is they're not all in the South.

WAKE UP YOU IDIOTS-you say you want to take your country back? Your country is supposed to be a democracy (We lived with Republicans in charge for 8 years-even though the elections were probably stolen-because we don't start screaming about birth certificates and taking up arms, every time we don't agree with the people in the White House or Congress. And look where your party got us-domestic and international DISASTER.). Obama was elected, and the Constitution covers people of both genders, all races and religions (or non-religions!), people with disabilities, women, homosexuals.....IF ANYONE HAS TAKEN THIS COUNTRY FROM ANYONE, IT'S THE RIGHT WING WHO HAVE TAKEN IT FROM THE REST OF US! They want the US to become a Christian Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan...

Yeah I'll shut up... I'm just so MAD and disgusted! I'm not a Democrat so please don't say I am one. The Democrats are now what the Republican party used to be. The Republicans are way to the right of that. And the worst part is that it's all because people are so willingly uneducated-as if stupidity is a virtue that makes them "real" Americans. I hope the rest of the world knows we're not all like these dumb yahoos. They whine about the government taking their guns away-aren't they just proving that they SHOULDN'T have them? MORONS.

[Evster2012]

I'm 43 and nothing has changed in my view. Blame goes left this year. Blame goes right the next. The government can't pave fucking roads. The real problem is that this country is run by politicians, not the people.

[ZPN]

It's the cry of the minority. Any minority will always feel oppressed when they are not in control. Just ask liberals during the Bush presidency the last 8 years. They felt the same way about revolution as right wingers are today. Both sides are equally extreme in their views and a revolution is not the answer. If you asked me if I supported revolution during the Bush administration, I probably would have said yes. Why? Because my ideological beliefs were not in control of out country. All the "birthers" and tea party and town hall protesters feel the same way. I was and they are cry babies upset over not getting what they wanted. A call for "revolution" is nothing but a temper tantrum and knee jerk reaction.

The country will continue to shift between left and right and there will never be a time when either side will be in complete control for a long time.

It's only when a majority are offended by the government that anything would happen, see Iran as an example.

A new generation is in control of the white house. The baby boomers time is coming to an end and Generation X is beginning their time as the dominant force in our government. The generation gap is a big reason for the radicalism that is alive today. Just look at the turbulence between the baby boomers and the greatest generation during the 60's and 70's. It's never pretty.

Don't read too much into extremists. They never represent the majority in any ideology, religion or country. That's why their never in control and never get what they want, even if their bark is the loudest.

I hope you are correct in most of what you said, because I'm getting scared.

The one thing I disagree with you on is that liberals are/were the same as these right wingers (ie. when Bush was in office). Yes liberals were unhappy and protested, but they did so non-violently and based on the facts of the situation, not because of racism, religious prejudice, homophobia, oversimplifications (like "socialism") and slogans-for-dummies, or made up hysteria over phony birth certificates and death panels. I never heard anyone on the left even threaten violence, much less use it. These people are not the same as liberals, in my experience. People described as "liberals" behave much more rationally, even if their opinions are slightly more progressive than the majority.

[eternal light]

If the insurance companies had done a better job covering the health care needs of Americans, this situation would not have developed.

But because they are more interested in acquiring wealth than covering health care, this predicament has persisted.

There are more and more people who simply cannot obtain health care and who die instead due to a lack of funding for medicine.

It only makes sense for the government to step in and try to remedy the problem, but the government too often buries the people in red tape.

You can be sitting in the hospital filling out forms the same day that you are dying and people will just smile at you as if it's only another day at the office.

[ZPN]

I'm 43 and nothing has changed in my view. Blame goes left this year. Blame goes right the next. The government can't pave fucking roads. The real problem is that this country is run by politicians, not the people.

That's a great argument for instant runoff voting (funny, NADER supports that-I voted for him twice),

campaign finance reform and term limits. By "the people", I'm not sure who you mean. I wouldn't have confidence that the birth certificate/death panel crowd can count to 100, much less pave a road. We need better educated people in government, not less. Right now it seems like only corporate puppets can get past the primaries, and by that point, we're all screwed: divide & conquer/left & right.

[ZPN]

I know. I just wish they'd shut up, sometimes.

My views aren't exactly being represented in the government, either, but they never have and they never will. I honestly believe both sides of the coin are corrupt, corporate-owned, run by a want of power, and neither sides give two shits what we, the people, want. I'm a Centrist. I want to see a Government comprised of equal parts Conservative and equal parts Liberal with a President who can make the compromise that will constantly please everyone. A Government that actually gives a shit about the people it controls.

We didn't get that under Bush, and it's no different now. One could make the case that we never did have that type of Government.

Why? Simple. Because the only people who run for Government want the power. And these are the very people who should stay far away from power. That, unfortunately, is the Catch-22 of power. The people who want power don't deserve it, but the people who deserve it want nothing to do with it. So who do we vote for, then?

I think you just made a fairly brilliant analysis in your last paragraph! Though I'm not sure there is a center to govern from-compromise, maybe.

[zosodude13]

I hope you are correct in most of what you said, because I'm getting scared.

The one thing I disagree with you on is that liberals are/were the same as these right wingers (ie. when Bush was in office). Yes liberals were unhappy and protested, but they did so non-violently and based on the facts of the situation, not because of racism, religious prejudice, homophobia, oversimplifications (like "socialism") and slogans-for-dummies, or made up hysteria over phony birth certificates and death panels. I never heard anyone on the left even threaten violence, much less use it. These people are not the same as liberals, in my experience. People described as "liberals" behave much more rationally, even if their opinions are slightly more progressive than the majority.

Perhaps in their actions there is a difference between liberals and conservatives, but the ideology and motivation behind them is the same burning fire that exists in all those that feel oppressed. Believe me, I've heard both sides call for death of the president. I've heard that kind of thing in high school, and anyone who has been/is in high school knows that hormones and emotions flux to extremes within hours and even minutes. You can't read much into it. Read my orginal post regarding the gender gap to see why I think there is the "chaos" that is present today. There is a good chance the 2010's will mirror the civil unrest of the 60's and 70's. A new generation is in charge and the other will not go quietly.

Talking heads like Keith Oberman and Bill O'Reilly pander to their supporters and spew bias propaganda. If you like their ideology, you will follow them to the gates of hell in what they say. And, both will trip over themselves in trying to justify their side when their opponents did the same thing. People need to investigate for themselves rather then trust a pundit for their "facts".

[ZPN]

If the insurance companies had done a better job covering the health care needs of Americans, this situation would not have developed.

But because they are more interested in acquiring wealth than covering health care, this predicament has persisted.

There are more and more people who simply cannot obtain health care and who die instead due to a lack of funding for medicine.

It only makes sense for the government to step in and try to remedy the problem, but the government too often buries the people in red tape.

You can be sitting in the hospital filling out forms the same day that you are dying and people will just smile at you as if it's only another day at the office.

I agree. I am for Single Payer 100%. This is precisely the area where Obama & some of the Dems ARE TRYING to compromise with Republicans, by saying Single Payer is off the table, and instead offering a public OPTION. And the Republicans/right wing yellers at town meetings will not compromise and support a simple public OPTION. That is one reason I resent being told that both sides are the same and will not compromise. PUBLIC OPTION IS THE COMPROMISE between the status quo and Single Payer.

Don't even get me started on health care. I am disabled and my income right now is SSDI and unemployment. Until I was FIRED in November 08 (by the "Pharmacy Benefit Management Company"-aka screwing people on rx drugs-I worked for) for being out sick too much, I always worked, and up until 2006, I worked full time. Because of the wonderful PRIVATE FOR PROFIT system we have, I spend at least 50% of my income on Cobra premiums and other medical expenses. Because I am about $300 over federal poverty guidelines (they are a joke) for monthly income, I have to pay $600 (note the difference in those 2 amounts, courtesy of our Republican Governor) per month out of pocket in medical expenses, before the State will pick up anything my Cobra doesn't cover. I am 45 and still can't afford to move out of my Mom's basement. I Graduated from College and always worked hard and I can't figure out what the hell for.

[ZPN]

If the insurance companies had done a better job covering the health care needs of Americans, this situation would not have developed.

But because they are more interested in acquiring wealth than covering health care, this predicament has persisted.

There are more and more people who simply cannot obtain health care and who die instead due to a lack of funding for medicine.

It only makes sense for the government to step in and try to remedy the problem, but the government too often buries the people in red tape.

You can be sitting in the hospital filling out forms the same day that you are dying and people will just smile at you as if it's only another day at the office.

Just yesterday they announced that the CEO of one of the insurance companies (United?) makes over $100,000 per HOUR.

I urge everyone to go to Bill Moyers' website and watch the video of the interview he did last week with Wendell Potter, an insurance executive who resigned after a 17 year old died, because his company denied an organ transplant. After protests and embarassing media coverage, the insurance company reversed their decision, but it was too late. The girl died 2 hours after they reversed their decision. If the transplant had been allowed right away, she might still be alive.

www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/profile.html

(there goes that commie pbs again...)

That is the system the insurance industry is currently spending MILLIONS per day to keep as is. MILLIONS THEY GOT FROM US IN INSURANCE PREMIUMS, DEDUCTIBLES AND COPAYS.

And the ignorant yellers at the town meetings are making it VERY EASY for them to get their way.

Like the woman who said she didn't want the government between her & her doctor, and they better not touch her Medicare: I just couldn't believe it! It's as simple as this: we decided long ago that education was a RIGHT for all citizens, so we provide for a public education for all. Why can't we do that with health care? Because corporations have been given the RIGHT to profit from our health care, and they've convinced a lot of dummies that their corporate RIGHT is more important than our RIGHTS as citizens, and that this is the "American" way! BULLS***!

[ZPN]

If the insurance companies had done a better job covering the health care needs of Americans, this situation would not have developed.

But because they are more interested in acquiring wealth than covering health care, this predicament has persisted.

There are more and more people who simply cannot obtain health care and who die instead due to a lack of funding for medicine.

It only makes sense for the government to step in and try to remedy the problem, but the government too often buries the people in red tape.

You can be sitting in the hospital filling out forms the same day that you are dying and people will just smile at you as if it's only another day at the office.

Actually one of the main benefits of Single Payer (or Public Option) to doctors and patients, and one of the ways it saves a lot of money, is that you only have 1 administrative/billing system (not to mention eliiminating profit). Look into what Canada's administrative costs are vs our for profit system. With Single Payer you also eliminate advertising: Public Option probably won't save as much as Single Payer would, because a Public Option would probably have to spend money on advertising, to compete with private insurance. Also the savings will probably be less with Private Option than Single Payer because the pool for Public Option will be smaller than one giant Single Payer pool with everyone. But God knows, we have to keep Single Payer off the goddam table, to please conservatives, who won't even meet us 1/2 way by supporting a Public Option!

Canada (Single Payer-which they also have in many European countries) spends far less per capita on health care than we do because of these things, AND they cover all citizens, regardless of whether they are employed full time, part time, unemployed, self employed, laid off or fired,

or change jobs/move to a new location. Patients have THEIR CHOICE of PRIVATE doctor/hospital

in Canada, Canadian doctors report higher job satisfaction than US doctors, and I believe Canadians have longer life expectancy than we do.

No, I'm sure the Canadian system is not perfect, and you may be able to find a few people who don't like it. But it's a hell of a lot better than what we have, it covers everyone for life, regardless of their health, AND it's cheaper. Canadians are NOT asking their Government to switch to a for profit insurance system like in the US-they want to keep theirs.

I worked in the 90's doing phone calling about Single Payer and I heard many stories about people from Oregon who were on vacation in Canada and needed care and got it-FREE. I hear the same kind of stories about Canada today, and about European countries with Single Payer.

If we start with a compromise (Public Option) now, maybe one day our grandkids or great grandkids generation will finally have Single Payer. That is, if we don't let the insurance industry win.

[Evster2012]

That's a great argument for instant runoff voting (funny, NADER supports that-I voted for him twice),

campaign finance reform and term limits. By "the people", I'm not sure who you mean. I wouldn't have confidence that the birth certificate/death panel crowd can count to 100, much less pave a road. We need better educated people in government, not less. Right now it seems like only corporate puppets can get past the primaries, and by that point, we're all screwed: divide & conquer/left & right.

That was precisely my point when I said politicians, not the people.

It's funny, because I've never actually shared my political afilliations on this forum. Am I a Dem or a Rep? Liberal or Conservative? Never have declared that here.

Yale, Harvard, Columbia? Who gives a fuck? You either perpetuate past errors or you create new ones. I've seen change. I haven't seen solutions. Bush declared war on "weapons of mass destruction". Obama has declared war on America paying its own bills. Remember when we could do that? Remember the working man? You scrape. You survive. You prosper. That's the spirit of America. I don't know what the hell episode of the Twilight Zone I'm living in now. Once upon a time you went out and got a goddamn job. You showed up on time, and that was it. Did I miss a memo?

[Reggie29]

That was precisely my point when I said politicians, not the people.

It's funny, because I've never actually shared my political afilliations on this forum. Am I a Dem or a Rep? Liberal or Conservative? Never have declared that here.

Yale, Harvard, Columbia? Who gives a fuck? You either perpetuate past errors or you create new ones. I've seen change. I haven't seen solutions. Bush declared war on "weapons of mass destruction". Obama has declared war on America paying its own bills. Remember when we could do that? Remember the working man? You scrape. You survive. You prosper. That's the spirit of America. I don't know what the hell episode of the Twilight Zone I'm living in now. Once upon a time you went out and got a goddamn job. You showed up on time, and that was it. Did I miss a memo?

Welcome to the 21st century.

The last few years remind me of that Michael Douglas movie (can't think of the name), where he was laid off for being "not economically viable".

The same applies to "social services" too.

Funny how all these decisions are made by "well educated" people!

[eternal light]

Employers like to exclude people.

It is ironic the way some individuals get so passionate about not wanting anyone to touch 'their' Medicare, which is after all, a government-sponsored program.

Interestingly, when Medicare first began, there was a great outcry by conservatives that it would be bad for the country.

[ZPN]

That was precisely my point when I said politicians, not the people.

It's funny, because I've never actually shared my political afilliations on this forum. Am I a Dem or a Rep? Liberal or Conservative? Never have declared that here.

Yale, Harvard, Columbia? Who gives a fuck? You either perpetuate past errors or you create new ones. I've seen change. I haven't seen solutions. Bush declared war on "weapons of mass destruction". Obama has declared war on America paying its own bills. Remember when we could do that? Remember the working man? You scrape. You survive. You prosper. That's the spirit of America. I don't know what the hell episode of the Twilight Zone I'm living in now. Once upon a time you went out and got a goddamn job. You showed up on time, and that was it. Did I miss a memo?

I didn't say you had declared or should declare (as I said before, I'm not a Democrat any more). Republican presidents have added far more to the deficit than Democrats. But because Republicans use the term "tax and spend" for Dems or liberals, and people believe whatever sound bite they hear, they overlook the fact that it was the Republicans who actually spent more and contributed most to the deficit.

As far as getting a job and showing up on time, I did that for years. In high school I didn't party-did homework instead-went to college-graduated-have a degree-it doesn't mean anything anymore. If people are out of work or underpaid, it's not necessarily because they don't have an education or job training, or they don't show up to work on time and work hard.

For example, when they started sending call center jobs to India, they claimed it was because the Indian workers had more education and training, and did a better job than the American call center workers. That was a lie. Anyone who works in a call center knows it's not true, and US customers are constantly frustrated because they can't understand or be understood by people in these overseas call centers. I'm not criticizing the WORKERS in the Indian (or Filipino or wherever) call centers-I couldn't take calls speaking Chinese, from customers in China, so I admire their effort. It's just more complicated than get a "goddamn job".

IT jobs, manufacturing jobs and others went overseas too. Unions have been weakened so workers lose job protection, medical benefits and sick days. And wages haven't kept up with inflation. My parent's generation could work and afford to buy a house, even if both parents didn't work full time. The people I know from my generation can barely afford an apartment. And they went to college. I still live with my Mom.

The last job I had, there was 90% turnover in my training class, in less than 4 years-people either left because of the working conditions or were fired because they could not meet the insane attendance requirements. For example, if you went to the bathroom and were off the phone more than 2 minutes, a supervisor literally went to your desk looking for you. I had to get 2 DOCTOR'S NOTES exempting me from that for medical reasons and had to report my bathroom breaks every day. It was humiliating.

My parents were not subjected to that kind of thing at their jobs. I'm not saying it was easy for them, but it was a different world. Employers now figure they can do anything to you and you'll put up with it because you have to. It was like that in this country before unions also (mines, sweatshops, etc.-only there the conditions were dangerous and sometimes even fatal). I don't think we should go back to that just because we're being forced to compete with 3rd world labor. What happened to US companies staying in the US and providing jobs you could afford to live on?

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone too-I guess it's just different from yours.

[eternal light]

Employers are predators.

[Nathan]

Well no shit employers are predators. We knew that already. And so are politicians.

One thing I love (or hate) about the Conservatives getting their knickers in a twist over this is the irony is that they are essentially telling the government to stay out of the way of employers screwing them over.

Fine. If you fuckers wanna lose your jobs because your employer has decided that your job would be better suited overseas because (s)he won't have to pay as much, and you want your health insurance to cut you when you get sick, then have fun... have fun over there in "Real America".

Personally, I'd like to stay here in "Fake America" where I can get a job and will have health care no matter what. To me, that just makes more fuckin' sense.

You know... common sense... what these vocal, fantical dumb-asses seem to seriously lack.

[Deborah J]

I am a registered Independant! I do lean to the liberal side as the right wing in my opinion is far more disgusting in their beliefs. The top 5% will have all the money and they will create jobs for the rest of America. Where did this ever make sense?

I had to deal with insurance companies after Katrina. They took my premiums for 30 years and yet fought me on everything for the one and only time I filed a claim...PLEASE...

Heathcare in this country needs to be fixed. Like someone stated earlier, the dumb woman who was screaming don't mess with my Medicare (a government run program) that the Republicans fought against. They scare me as well with their extreme beliefs.

We are supposed to be the greatest country? I am embarrassed at my country and the only thing left that I have true respect for is our military men. They do their job no matter who is in office...yet they come home to hospitals that should be condemed. A disgrace!!

The Europeans have had massive transit systems for decades, but not us...why? it would hurt the good old boys in the gas and oil industry...again disgusting!

I will not Judge President Obama yet as he has not been in office long enough in my opinion for me to make that call. I can only hope for my son's generation that things will change.

[Deborah J]

That says it all right there. Now they want to "manage" health care. They do, it's over.

Who do you think runs the politicians in America,,,that would be corporations! They obviously have proven their merit. Something needs to be done as we cannot move forward with it staying the same. Bush had 8 years to make a change and we know how that turned out!!!