WWII In HD

[Rock N' Rollin' Man]

New series on the history channel. Two years of globe trekking to find color footage of combat, on the allied side as well as some Japanese footage. Incredible stuff, they have actors narrating a dozen different perspectives from people on the lines. Pretty graphic as well which I think is good to show how war really is.

Anyone else watching this?

[redrum]

I'd love to watch but I don't have cable.

There's a short film at the library in color of the Marines on Iwo Jima and one part is amazing of a destroyer almost right up on the beach firing blazing hot tracers right into a cave or dugout.

This was done by artist Tom Lea at Peleliu.

'The Price'

[planted]

I am watching this!!! Hard to find others in my "group" who can pry themselves from Dancing with the Stars, etc. but I am really enjoying this...all the while thinking, "where do we find such men"?

I wonder is its for sale from the History Channel...

[Dzldoc]

I haven't gone yet because I just haven't been up to it just yet but I will go before Christmas. It's part of the National WW 2 Museum here in down town New Orleans.

Tom Hanks was here on Veterans day to dedicate the new theater, it looks to be an awesome show!

http://www.nola.com/..._beyond_al.html

More stories and pics

http://topics.nola.c...seum/index.html

http://topics.nola.c...eum/photos.html

Video

http://videos.nola.c..._ii_museum.html

New Orleans played a big part in the liberation of France as the builders of the Higgins landing craft that brought the fighting men to the shores of Normandy and Ohmaha beachs and others including the Pacific theater.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

I watch the History Channel when I go to visit my folk's or anywhere I can get to a TV (I don't have TV here at home), I remember seeing "World War 2 in Color" a few years ago.

[ledzepfvr]

The hubby and I have been watching it. It is a series that you are drawn to because these men endured alot of things the were unimaginable but hard to watch the graphic nature of some of the photos depicted. It is so sad. But the world should never forget what all the allied troops went through.

[Mangani]

New series on the history channel. Two years of globe trekking to find color footage of combat, on the allied side as well as some Japanese footage.

What about the German side?

I find the German side more fascinating (from a military point of view) than anything else.

My biggest area of interest is the war on the eastern front 1941 to 1945 between Germany and the Soviet Union so is there anything about that? After all it was THE major theatre of WW2 with over 40 million dead and it was where WW2 was really won and lost. Colour footage of the eastern front is very rare especially combat footage from the last two years of that conflict. Hopefully there might be some new stuff???

[redrum]

What about the German side?

I find the German side more fascinating (from a military point of view) than anything else.

My biggest area of interest is the war on the eastern front 1941 to 1945 between Germany and the Soviet Union so is there anything about that? After all it was THE major theatre of WW2 with over 40 million dead and it was where WW2 was really won and lost. Colour footage of the eastern front is very rare especially combat footage from the last two years of that conflict. Hopefully there might be some new stuff???

I also like to read stories from the Japanese side. For being such viscious fighters their writing is very poetic.

I don't know if there's any color film of the eastern front, especially from the Russian side. But I do know there's color film of Hitler and the Nazi's. I'm not sure if Leni Refienstahl used any color film.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

What about the German side?

I find the German side more fascinating (from a military point of view) than anything else.

My biggest area of interest is the war on the eastern front 1941 to 1945 between Germany and the Soviet Union so is there anything about that? After all it was THE major theatre of WW2 with over 40 million dead and it was where WW2 was really won and lost. Colour footage of the eastern front is very rare especially combat footage from the last two years of that conflict. Hopefully there might be some new stuff???

Yeah, the Soviet human wave of, one man with an empty rifle and the one next to him with a clip of 5 round's! Not to forget the Maxim gun's to there rear that will shoot them down if they retreat! And just bad leadership move's, would put the common conscript into a short life span in the earlier battle's.

Quote from the web....

The Red Army won the war, almost single-handedly. The bulk of the fighting in Europe was on the Eastern Front.. Churchill told FDR in 1941 that the only power on earth that could possibly take on the Wehrmacht in a war on the continent and have a chance in surviving, let alone winning, was the Red Army. Churchill was right.

Look at the battle statistics. Pay particular attention to places like Stalingrad, Leningrad, Moscow, Kursk, Kharkov and Smolensk. The Soviets faced off against armies numbering from 750,000 to 1.2 million men. The US and UK never went up against such opposition. The elite troops and best commanders of the Wehrmacht were in the east, and they had the best German equipment. Supplies, reinforcements, fuel, food and spare parts originally allocated for other theaters were diverted to the Russian Front, thus further weakening the already depleted foes the US and UK were fighting.

During 3 weeks of Operation Mars, the Soviets suffered almost as many casualties as did the US in all branches of service in all theaters, including the Atlantic, the Pacific, Africa, Italy, Asia and Europe during the entire war. Over three days at Kursk, the Soviets handed the Germans more casualties than the US or UK suffered in the entire war. Soviet suffered losses at the of about three to one, but they were responsible for the vast majority of the 3.2 million German troop dead.

While the Red Army was deciding the outcome of the war at Moscow and Stalingrad, the US and UK were still puttering around in North Africa. Rommel, contrary to the propaganda, was not one of Germany's best field commanders. The elite couldn't be spared and they were sent east where they were needed. The Afrika Korps was a thrown together outfit assembled simply because the Italians couldn't hold Africa. Rommel could not get fuel, spare parts, replacements, supplies or reinforcements. The great battles of North Africa, such as Second Battle of El Alamein , were contested by only a fraction of the troops as were the battles between the Volga and the Oder. Generally, the Western Allies outnumbered their opposition by about 2 to 1.

By the time the Western Allies hit the beaches of Sicily and Italy, the Soviets had decided the outcome of the war at Stalingrad and were getting ready to beat the Wehrmacht into submission at Kursk and Smolensk. After Kursk, the Germans never went on the offensive again and they were steadily beaten back to Berlin. Overlord and Normandy had very little to do with the fall of Berlin or the outcome of the war and by comparison to the major battles of the Eastern Front, it was a small scale operation. Read the numbers in the Orders of Battle for the various fights. The numbers say it all.

I won't go into the slaughter of the wounded and POWs. The troop deaths were by no means all combat deaths. Suffice it to say that a Russian POW had a very short life expectancy whether he remained in German hands or was returned to the USSR. Disobedience of orders to stand and fight and not retreat or surrender pretty much had to be obeyed. The option was all but certain death in most cases, with many notable exceptions. Of course, Churchill and FDR promised Stalin at Yalta that they would return any Soviet prisoners that they liberated to the USSR, thus making the US/UK hands as bloody as Stalin's in that regard. The farce of Andrey Vlasov may be helpful to you on that issue.

The Soviets had excellent weapons. The T-34 was the best tank in the field until at least late '43 and upgrades maintained Soviet tank supremacy well after the war. The Soviets had almost three times as many of them as the Germans had Panthers and Tigers combined. Over about 8 hours at Prokhorovka, during the battle of Kursk, the largest tank battle in history took place and the T-34s, outnumbered by more than 5 to 1, destroyed about half of Germany's remaining strength of Panzers. The Yakovlev series of "Yak" fighters were among the best planes in the air, as the ME 109s found out time after time. During Prokhorovka, the costliest day of aerial warfare in history took place and the Soviets downed Luftwaffe planes at a kill rate of over 3 to 1. (Of course, the actual casualty figures, especially in tanks and planes, varies with the source of the account. I find the Soviet figures to be generally inflated and the German numbers to be underestimated - which tends to bear out the simple fact that the Red Army made an excellent showing of itself.)

Goebbels and Himmler had run an intelligence operation before, and in anticipation of, Barbarossa. Through propaganda and misinformation, they caused Stalin to purge the Red Army. During the early stages of the war, while the new officer corps was earning its spurs, Soviet losses were high. Soviet tactics left something to be desired, as battle movements were pre-planned and little discretion was left to the field leadership. The Germans were allowed a much freer hand to adapt to conditions. This resulted in unbalanced body counts. When Barbarossa was launched, Stalin was smart enough to realize that he could not defend against blitzkreig tactics on the plains of the Ukraine, and he was wise enough to realize that he didn't have to. He ordered a fighting retreat to defensive positions of his choosing and he ordered his commanders to buy him the time he needed to move his factories and production behind the safety of the Urals and to get them into production. At the same time, he constructed his defenses at places like Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad. The German onslaught killed tens of thousands, but Stalin's plan worked. The Germans out-advanced their supply lines and the logistics of continuing the advance were all but impossible. When the Wehrmacht reached the designated areas, they ran into the meat grinder the Eastern Front became. Guys like Zhukov, Vatutin, Konev and Rokossovsky were excellent commanders, every bit the match for their Wehrmacht counterparts, and certainly superior to prima donnas like Patton and Montgomery.

The Western allies delayed opening the second front in Europe until after the Soviets had written the conclusion of the war. Africa and Italy were minor skirmishes by comparison and by the time June 6, 1944 rolled around, the Germans had been in full retreat for more than a year and a half. History proved Churchill to have been correct. It is blatantly obvious why the Soviet death toll was so high. Europe owes the Red Army a debt of gratitude for ending the Thousand Year Reich in a little under four years.

[Mangani]

I also like to read stories from the Japanese side.For being such viscious fighters their writing is very poetic.

From what the opening posters said, there is colour footage of the Japanese in the documentary. He didn't mention the Germans which is why I wondered about it. Looks like there is Japanese stuff though.

I don't know if there's any color film of the eastern front, especially from the Russian side. But I do know there's color film of Hitler and the Nazi's. I'm not sure if Leni Refienstahl used any color film.

Yeah there's quite a lot of 'behind the front line' colour footage from the Germans/Nazis (Hitler at the Eagles Nest, rear echelon stuf etc etc) but precious little front line combat footage. Most rare of all is colour footage from '43 to '45 on the German side. I'm always on the lookout for colour footage of German panzer divisions from this period. As an armour afficionado, this is by far the most interesting period for colour camoflage schemes. This clip is interesting. Lots of colour German footage, mostly from 1941 and 1942 on the eastern front although in the middle of it all on 3.30 is some nice surviving colour footage of a Panzer IV getting a repair and a repaint. That part looks like late 1943 to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYCBPZslKS4

Now if we can find some colour footage of Tiger and Panther tanks from 1944 and 1945 in their intricate late war camoflage schemes it would be fantastic.

[Mangani]

Yeah, the Soviet human wave of, one man with an empty rifle and the one next to him with a clip of 5 round's! Not to forget the Maxim gun's to there rear that will shoot them down if they retreat! And just bad leadership move's, would put the common conscript into a short life span in the earlier battle's.

Quote from the web....

Good post there. I could nitpick a few bits here and there from that site you quoted but it's right for the most part.

On the other hand, if there wasn't a western front in 1941 and 1942 then the Soviets probably would have collapsed, or at least sued for peace. Over 1.5 million German personnel were in the west in 1941 and 1942 from Norway down through the Mediterranean and North Africa guarding western Europe etc from the British/Commonwealth and later U.S. Put those German troops on the eastern front in 1941 and the Soviet Union loses. So even though the war in the east was the major theatre and where WW2 was won and lost, without the western allies the Soviets could never have won. Western supplies, western air bombing of Germany as well as western ground fronts from Africa to Italy to France etc etc all played their part in the final outcome.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

From what the opening posters said, there is colour footage of the Japanese in the documentary. He didn't mention the Germans which is why I wondered about it. Looks like there is Japanese stuff though.

Yeah there's quite a lot of 'behind the front line' colour footage from the Germans/Nazis (Hitler at the Eagles Nest, rear echelon stuf etc etc) but precious little front line combat footage. Most rare of all is colour footage from '43 to '45 on the German side. I'm always on the lookout for colour footage of German panzer divisions from this period. As an armour afficionado, this is by far the most interesting period for colour camoflage schemes. This clip is interesting. Lots of colour German footage, mostly from 1941 and 1942 on the eastern front although in the middle of it all on 3.30 is some nice surviving colour footage of a Panzer IV getting a repair and a repaint. That part looks like late 1943 to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYCBPZslKS4

Now if we can find some colour footage of Tiger and Panther tanks from 1944 and 1945 in their intricate late war camoflage schemes it would be fantastic.

Thanks for posting the link's Mangani, some cool stuff there! The shot's of the guy's working on the tank's are quite true, the Tiger was even more a mechanical nightmare than the Panzer! Tank's do need to be looked after but the Tiger and the later King Tiger and Elephant where the worst at needing constant working on. Panther's had there difficulties as well but the kink's where worked out in that chassis design after the first run at the factory. The German tank designer's where just to far ahead of there time if you ask me, the Soviet KV and later IS tank's where monster's too. But, I don't think they had the all around mechanical issue's of the complex Tiger, King Tiger, Panther and Elephant tank's the German's where building.

Found some photo's but no video's....

http://englishrussia.com/?p=2239

[redrum]

This clip is interesting. Lots of colour German footage, mostly from 1941 and 1942 on the eastern front although in the middle of it all on 3.30 is some nice surviving colour footage of a Panzer IV getting a repair and a repaint. That part looks like late 1943 to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYCBPZslKS4

Hey Hans, pass me a 17mm socket. I'd like to have some of those German tools.

[Mangani]

Thanks for posting the link's Mangani, some cool stuff there! The shot's of the guy's working on the tank's are quite true, the Tiger was even more a mechanical nightmare than the Panzer! Tank's do need to be looked after but the Tiger and the later King Tiger and Elephant where the worst at needing constant working on. Panther's had there difficulties as well but the kink's where worked out in that chassis design after the first run at the factory.

Very true.

There is the argument that Germany would have been better sticking to just one simpler type and cranking out much more of them (say, the Panzer IV). I 'can' see their point but on the other hand even if the Germans did stick to one simpler type it still wouldn't have been enough to stem the flow of the enemy. The Soviets built 60,000 T34s alone while the U.S built 50,000 Shermans alone.

With a more simpler tank type the Germans would still not had quantity superiority and certainly not quality superiority. The Germans went for quality superiority. Besides, more tanks made = more crews needed, more ammo needed etc etc.

In my opinion part of the reason why it took the Soviets almost 2 years from Kursk to Berlin and why it took the western allies so long to advance through France and Germany was due in no small part to the quality of German armour they faced. It just wasn't easy getting through them.

Of course, the big German 'cats' were tough to maintain and transport but the benefits were probably worth it and, if you look at German operational strength figures, quite often the ratio of Tigers operational and ready for combat wasn't far below that of the Panzer IV. Panther was on a par with the Panzer IV in operational status once it's early flaws were ironed out as you say.

The Elefant was just a stop gap. Only 90 chassis were built in 1942 by Porsche who was aiming for the Tiger contract. When he was turned down for the Tiger contract there were 90 Porsche chassis already built and left over and they just made use of the chassis by fixing a superstructure on top with a very powerful 88 and calling them the Ferdinand. Their debut as Kursk was less than impressive but the 60 or so left proved very very successful in the follow on defensive battles in late 1943. They got a factory makover in early 1944 and were renamed Elefant. Some were sent to Italy but most were sent back to Russia where they performed very well through 1944 and quite a few were still fighting by early 1945 in Poland. I believe 3 made it to Berlin to fight there in April/May 1945.

The German tank designer's where just to far ahead of there time if you ask me,

Yes. They made the Rolls Royces of tanks.

the Soviet KV and later IS tank's where monster's too. But, I don't think they had the all around mechanical issue's of the complex Tiger, King Tiger, Panther and Elephant tank's the German's where building.

No they didn't that's true although the KV was really very undergunned for such a heavy tank and that's why production was stopped in 1943.

As for the IS, it's flaws were in its internal design. Very cramped uncomfortable interior, small ammo load (just 28 rounds compraed to 90 in the Tiger) and very slow firing 2 part ammunition. Its gun accuracy was markedly inferior to the long barreled 75s and 88s of the Germans. In fact, from the point of view of armour piercing the Panther's long 75mm was better than the IS2's 122mm.

Found some photo's but no video's....

http://englishrussia.com/?p=2239

Thats great thanks. Some great pics there. I can't help but wonder if some of those pics have been colourized though. What do you think? Some look authentic but some others look a bit too garish, like when I watch the colourized versions of Laurel and Hardy.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

Very true.

There is the argument that Germany would have been better sticking to just one simpler type and cranking out much more of them (say, the Panzer IV). I 'can' see their point but on the other hand even if the Germans did stick to one simpler type it still wouldn't have been enough to stem the flow of the enemy. The Soviets built 60,000 T34s alone while the U.S built 50,000 Shermans alone.

With a more simpler tank type the Germans would still not had quantity superiority and certainly not quality superiority. The Germans went for quality superiority. Besides, more tanks made = more crews needed, more ammo needed etc etc.

In my opinion part of the reason why it took the Soviets almost 2 years from Kursk to Berlin and why it took the western allies so long to advance through France and Germany was due in no small part to the quality of German armour they faced. It just wasn't easy getting through them.

Of course, the big German 'cats' were tough to maintain and transport but the benefits were probably worth it and, if you look at German operational strength figures, quite often the ratio of Tigers operational and ready for combat wasn't far below that of the Panzer IV. Panther was on a par with the Panzer IV in operational status once it's early flaws were ironed out as you say.

The Elefant was just a stop gap. Only 90 chassis were built in 1942 by Porsche who was aiming for the Tiger contract. When he was turned down for the Tiger contract there were 90 Porsche chassis already built and left over and they just made use of the chassis by fixing a superstructure on top with a very powerful 88 and calling them the Ferdinand. Their debut as Kursk was less than impressive but the 60 or so left proved very very successful in the follow on defensive battles in late 1943. They got a factory makover in early 1944 and were renamed Elefant. Some were sent to Italy but most were sent back to Russia where they performed very well through 1944 and quite a few were still fighting by early 1945 in Poland. I believe 3 made it to Berlin to fight there in April/May 1945.

Yes. They made the Rolls Royces of tanks.

No they didn't that's true although the KV was really very undergunned for such a heavy tank and that's why production was stopped in 1943.

As for the IS, it's flaws were in its internal design. Very cramped uncomfortable interior, small ammo load (just 28 rounds compraed to 90 in the Tiger) and very slow firing 2 part ammunition. Its gun accuracy was markedly inferior to the long barreled 75s and 88s of the Germans. In fact, from the point of view of armour piercing the Panther's long 75mm was better than the IS2's 122mm.

Thats great thanks. Some great pics there. I can't help but wonder if some of those pics have been colourized though. What do you think? Some look authentic but some others look a bit too garish, like when I watch the colourized versions of Laurel and Hardy.

Germany was quite famous for stealing the Soviet design's (likely through the information of spying or captured weaponry). You can see this in the design in the Panther tank (compared to the T34) the Soviet SVT-39 and 40 where rifle's that where designed by the Soviet's but they had trouble's and the German's revamped it, and came up with the Gewehr 41 and then in to the even better model 43.

With this in mind I believe (IMHO) that the German's knew about the bigger tank's that the Soviet's where bringing out into the field and where countering with the bigger tank design's of there own. No doubt that Porsche was trying to get some influence from the building of the Elephant to keep in the game. Porsche was also building small(er) armored car's yes?

The KV was an old chassis design and they kept adding armor to the bulk making it heaver with every up-grade they did but, they didn't think about the power plant. It was not holding up to all that extra weight and was eventually unable to keep up with the foot solders.

The Panther had a major flaw in it's turret motor design and the first one's off the line broke down right at the factory. There was something else about the cooling intake or something, I don't remember right off hand but they too where braking down right and left from the get go. But, as soon as they fixed those issues it was one of the best tank's they put into service at that time.

Yeah, there was a lot of fake looking and/or reenactment stuff on the web I found from the war.

[Mangani]

Germany was quite famous for stealing the Soviet design's (likely through the information of spying or captured weaponry). You can see this in the design in the Panther tank (compared to the T34) the Soviet SVT-39 and 40 where rifle's that where designed by the Soviet's but they had trouble's and the German's revamped it, and came up with the Gewehr 41 and then in to the even better model 43.

With this in mind I believe (IMHO) that the German's knew about the bigger tank's that the Soviet's where bringing out into the field and where countering with the bigger tank design's of there own.

You would think so, but it doesn't tally well with the shock they received on first encountering the KVs and T34s. If they had known all about them previously I would have expected more counter methods from the start. Even the Panzer III was slow in getting the long barreled 50mm gun. This should have been a high priority for the invasion into Russia (if they had known all about the new Soviet tanks) but, even though Hitler indicated he wanted this gun as early as 1940 not much was done about it until after the encounters with the new Soviet tanks. The first Panzer IIIs with the long 50mm didn't come around until late 1941 (December) and that was 6 months after the invasion.

But they might have had some kind of inkling of new types but just not what they were exactly.

No doubt that Porsche was trying to get some influence from the building of the Elephant to keep in the game. Porsche was also building small(er) armored car's yes?

I don't know about armoured cars but he did design the famous Kubelwagen which was obviously used extensively in WW2 as well as having further designs/attemps at other tanks, whioch mostly failed.

The KV was an old chassis design and they kept adding armor to the bulk making it heaver with every up-grade they did but, they didn't think about the power plant. It was not holding up to all that extra weight and was eventually unable to keep up with the foot solders.

That's true they did keep on up armouring it in 1941 and 1942, although in the very last model in late 1942, the KV1-S, they actually lightened it somewhat so it could move faster. They angled off the back part of the rear deck and gave it new lighter wheels and lighter tracks and a smaller turret. It was still too big a tank for such a small gun though. They did make a limited number (130) of the KV-85s with the 85mm gun in late 1943 but by then the IS series was on the way into production so it didn't really go anywhere as it wasn't needed and the last KVs were made in 1943.

The Panther had a major flaw in it's turret motor design and the first one's off the line broke down right at the factory. There was something else about the cooling intake or something, I don't remember right off hand but they too where braking down right and left from the get go. But, as soon as they fixed those issues it was one of the best tank's they put into service at that time.

Yeah, most of the early production Panthers (ausf D model) broke down and many got engine fires on their way from the railheads to the front line for their combat debut at Kursk in July 1943. Out of the near on 200 new Panthers that were assigned for the Kursk offensiv, only around 40 or so were operational just 2 days later. They had many problems and it wasn't really until late 1943/early 1944 that the Panther (now in it's second model, the ausf A) was declared fully combat capable. It was the best all round tank of WW2 in my view though, particularly in it's final model, the ausf G.

Yeah, there was a lot of fake looking and/or reenactment stuff on the web I found from the war.

I know. It's really hard to tell the real stuff from the fake sometimes.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

You would think so, but it doesn't tally well with the shock they received on first encountering the KVs and T34s. If they had known all about them previously I would have expected more counter methods from the start. Even the Panzer III was slow in getting the long barreled 50mm gun. This should have been a high priority for the invasion into Russia (if they had known all about the new Soviet tanks) but, even though Hitler indicated he wanted this gun as early as 1940 not much was done about it until after the encounters with the new Soviet tanks. The first Panzer IIIs with the long 50mm didn't come around until late 1941 (December) and that was 6 months after the invasion.

But they might have had some kind of inkling of new types but just not what they were exactly.

I don't know about armoured cars but he did design the famous Kubelwagen which was obviously used extensively in WW2 as well as having further designs/attemps at other tanks, whioch mostly failed.

That's true they did keep on up armouring it in 1941 and 1942, although in the very last model in late 1942, the KV1-S, they actually lightened it somewhat so it could move faster. They angled off the back part of the rear deck and gave it new lighter wheels and lighter tracks and a smaller turret. It was still too big a tank for such a small gun though. They did make a limited number (130) of the KV-85s with the 85mm gun in late 1943 but by then the IS series was on the way into production so it didn't really go anywhere as it wasn't needed and the last KVs were made in 1943.

Yeah, most of the early production Panthers (ausf D model) broke down and many got engine fires on their way from the railheads to the front line for their combat debut at Kursk in July 1943. Out of the near on 200 new Panthers that were assigned for the Kursk offensiv, only around 40 or so were operational just 2 days later. They had many problems and it wasn't really until late 1943/early 1944 that the Panther (now in it's second model, the ausf A) was declared fully combat capable. It was the best all round tank of WW2 in my view though, particularly in it's final model, the ausf G.

I know. It's really hard to tell the real stuff from the fake sometimes.

I believe they had a good idea what was going on but, they had to have time to put there counter tank's through design and then, the factory etc.... And you also hope that your spy make's it past enemy lines alive to get the information to you to start with too ! Then you have the fact of the power verses the dream thing too, having the knowleg is one thing but being alble to put all that to good use and be able to keep it alive is a whole diffrent story.

A good example of this is that Hitler knew nothing at all about the development of the MP44! Or at least he was not too concerned with it as when he called his main commander's to a meeting after the loss of France to ask them what they need to turn the war around. One guy held up an MP44 and said "we need more of these new rifle's!" He replied ...What new rifle's??? This guy (Hitler) was not much of a military leader and was only a strong speaker of word's that was convincing to a country that was going down in flame's both before the war and towards the end of the war.

I remember reading about the Soviet 122mm gun that was used on the IS tank's that was not doing to well against tank armor but was killing lighter target's and an effective artillery weapon. Soviet's had lot's of open ground with no fighting where they could do the planing and building of weaponry, Germany had the whole world coming down on them from many side's. The US was hindered with long supply line's but where even more comfortable with the home front (no fighting).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3711963070632273873&ei=KXgJS8KGH5-arAL0otyTDg&q=German+Panther+tank&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

[Del Zeppnile]

I love shows like this because it assures me that I am not the only person left in America who regularly uses the word "Jap" .

[BlackandGold]

I love shows like this because it assures me that I am not the only person left in America who regularly uses the word "Jap" .

The word is being used by soldiers in the context of the time and the war, and the Japanese were the enemy. I have never heard anyone under 75 actually use the term Jap when speaking about the Japanese as a people today.

[Del Zeppnile]

The word is being used by soldiers in the context of the time and the war, and the Japanese were the enemy. I have never heard anyone under 75 actually use the term Jap when speaking about the Japanese as a people today.

Yeah and I wonder why that is? I use the word to describe my Jap car; Jap food; cute little Jap chicks, and those silly little sandles that we used to call "Jap flaps".

But really, why are the "Japanese" so upset by an abreviated word like Jap? We say Brits for the British; Canucks for Canadians, and even Ruskies for Russians--- and they aren't upset. And what American (other than maybe a southerner) gets angry about being called a "Yank"?

Face it Japan, you are a defeated nation of emporer worshiping drones, and we will call you whatever the fuck we choose to call you. Some of us have not forgotten what you did to our boys with glee in your eyes and Banzai on your lips.

[redrum]

Some of us have not forgotten what you did to our boys with glee in your eyes and Banzai on your lips.

I have an old WW2 book (1945) titled 'The 100 Best True Stories Of World War 2' and it's over 800 pages with stories from all over the globe with one even titled 'The Battle Of Florida'

But one story is called 'Account Closed, CRK' and it's about the Goettge patrol on Guadalcanal where about 20 Marines went out and were ambushed and 17 were killed. 3 survived and when they went back to retrieve the bodies they had all been hacked to pieces by the Japs with their Samurai swords. Well, one Marine made it his mission to exact revenge by making sure he would kill 17 Japs as payback and when he finally did that's where the title of the story comes in.

[Mangani]

Yeah and I wonder why that is? I use the word to describe my Jap car; Jap food; cute little Jap chicks, and those silly little sandles that we used to call "Jap flaps".

But really, why are the "Japanese" so upset by an abreviated word like Jap? We say Brits for the British; Canucks for Canadians, and even Ruskies for Russians--- and they aren't upset. And what American (other than maybe a southerner) gets angry about being called a "Yank"?

Well said. I recently got banned from another forum because I used the word Jap instead of Japanese. It was an American forum and I didn't know the word Jap is supposed to be derogatory. I just though it was an abbreviation. I've seen the word 'JAP' displayed on Olympic and Formula One scoreboards so I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.

[Mangani]

I believe they had a good idea what was going on but, they had to have time to put there counter tank's through design and then, the factory etc.... And you also hope that your spy make's it past enemy lines alive to get the information to you to start with too ! Then you have the fact of the power verses the dream thing too, having the knowleg is one thing but being alble to put all that to good use and be able to keep it alive is a whole diffrent story.

That's very very true and I would agree with you for the most part. Like I said though, Hitler ordered the 50mm L/60 gun as early as 1940 and it would have been available (at least in small numbers)for the summer '41 Barbarossa offensive if they had got their fingers out but obviously they didn't feel the need was there. If they had known all about the T34s and KVs I'm sure it would have been a top priority in the months leading up to June 1941 to have the 50mm L/60 in their Panzer IIIs, if only a proportionate number of them. But there were none with the L/60 50mm.

A good example of this is that Hitler knew nothing at all about the development of the MP44! Or at least he was not too concerned with it as when he called his main commander's to a meeting after the loss of France to ask them what they need to turn the war around. One guy held up an MP44 and said "we need more of these new rifle's!" He replied ...What new rifle's??? This guy (Hitler) was not much of a military leader and was only a strong speaker of word's that was convincing to a country that was going down in flame's both before the war and towards the end of the war.

That's a new one for me. I had never heard of that before. I'm shocked at that. Hitler seemed to take a keen interest in many other weapons developements. He had an in depth knowledge of tank developments and followed them very closely. In fact it was largely through his demand that German tanks got bigger and bigger.

I remember reading about the Soviet 122mm gun that was used on the IS tank's that was not doing to well against tank armor but was killing lighter target's and an effective artillery weapon.

Even though the Soviets wanted a bigger and more powerful tank to take on the German Tigers and Panthers, the Soviet IS was mainly intended to be a breakthrough tank at weak points in the line (so the claim goes). It's 'high explosive' round was devastating on soft targets. It really didn't have more than 12 rounds of 'armour piercing' shot though and that's a shockingly low number if you are caught in a prolonged fire fight aganist Tigers and Panthers. There was a large battle in May 1944 in eastern Romania where the Grossdeutschland Panzer Divison met IS-2s in numbers for the first time. The Tiger and Panthers had the upper hand because of the long range accuracy of their guns and their ability to fire many more quick shots as well as having superior tactics in open country.

The IS-2 gun was still good and was a danger to even the Tiger and Panther frontally with AP but the Soviet 100mm was better but only the SU100 tank destroyer was fitted with that gun in WW2. It was later seen on the T54/T55 post war.

Soviet's had lot's of open ground with no fighting where they could do the planing and building of weaponry,

Yep, and the sories of how they moved whole factories east of the Ural Mountains when the Germans advanced are amazing. It was the largest industrial migration in history. A truely awesome feat.

Germany had the whole world coming down on them from many side's.

Yes, particularly from late 1942/early 1943 onwards. Their earlier gains were slowly shrinking all the time.

The US was hindered with long supply line's but where even more comfortable with the home front (no fighting).

Yes their factories could produce huge material and amounts of weaponry more or less unhindered. But like you said they then had to get it overseas although by 1944 the U-Boat threat was far less.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3711963070632273873&ei=KXgJS8KGH5-arAL0otyTDg&q=German+Panther+tank&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

Great vids. Thanks.

That first video with the Panther, I have actually seen that tank up close. I have photos of it. It's at the army technical museum in Koblenz on the Rhine. Nice museum to stop off at, if you are ever over than way.

[Del Zeppnile]

I have an old WW2 book (1945) titled 'The 100 Best True Stories Of World War 2' and it's over 800 pages with stories from all over the globe with one even titled 'The Battle Of Florida'

But one story is called 'Account Closed, CRK' and it's about the Goettge patrol on Guadalcanal where about 20 Marines went out and were ambushed and 17 were killed. 3 survived and when they went back to retrieve the bodies they had all been hacked to pieces by the Japs with their Samurai swords. Well, one Marine made it his mission to exact revenge by making sure he would kill 17 Japs as payback and when he finally did that's where the title of the story comes in.

I had never heard that Red, thanks for sharing it. I know from accounts told to me over the years by relatives and other older friends of the family; that the attrocities committed by the Japs during the war were nearly unspeakable. Just ask any Korean or Chinese what they think of the Japs, and you'll get an ear full.

Well said. I recently got banned from another forum because I used the word Jap instead of Japanese. It was an American forum and I didn't know the word Jap is supposed to be derogatory. I just though it was an abbreviation. I've seen the word 'JAP' displayed on Olympic and Formula One scoreboards so I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.

Until Japan apologizes, I mean really apologizes and stops playing the victim card for their actions in WW2; I will continue to call them Japs or worse.

[Joao]

I had never heard that Red, thanks for sharing it. I know from accounts told to me over the years by relatives and other older friends of the family; that the attrocities committed by the Japs during the war were nearly unspeakable. Just ask any Korean or Chinese what they think of the Japs, and you'll get an ear full.

Until Japan apologizes, I mean really apologizes and stops playing the victim card for their actions in WW2; I will continue to call them Japs or worse.

Well, I guess Americans behaved better during the war right? It seems you always do.

You know for every story your family and friends tell you just remember that some Japanese person is listening to the same stories filled with unspeakable horrors of war. In war everybody's a victim, so they have every right to play the victim card as the Americans. Anyway that was so long ago, I always wonder what does it have to do with us now?

In keeping with thread: I've always been interested in the subject of WWII and after seeing this post I've been looking at some documentaries on youtube of WWII In Color, great stuff.