Pope apologises to Priests' Victims

[kenog]

Do any of you think this is too little, too late for those whose lives have been ruined?

Source: ITN News

Pope apologises for priests' 'unspeakable crimes'

The Pope has apologised for the "unspeakable crimes" committed by Catholic priests who sexually abused children.

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  In the most strongly worded public apology of his state visit so far, the Pontiff spoke of the "shame and humiliation" brought by the scandal.

He told the congregation at London's Westminster Cathedral: "I think of the immense suffering caused by the abuse of children, especially within the Church and by her ministers. The apology comes after he acknowledged this week that the Catholic Church had failed to deal with abusive priests decisively or quickly enough.

Earlier this morning the Pontiff was greeted by Prime Minster David Cameron - the first time the two men have met since the Pope arrived in the UK.

The religious leader also spoke with other political figures including Deputy prime minister Nick Clegg and acting opposition leader Harriet Harman.

[danelectro59]

Apologize for something they ignored for many years? No!

What he should apologize for is 1500 years of hypocrisy.

[Virginia]

The whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing is why I am no longer a practicing Catholic (but still feel too Catholic to convert to another denomination, so we have been on an indefinite church hiatus for almost 10 years).

[Knebby]

What else can he do? I mean, I am open to answers here. I'm not personally a supporter of this current Pope or the current Catholic stance, but what more can he realistically do than apologise, anyone?

I think the Vatican could try to financially compensate those involved, but that would be massively complicated and open to (ironically), abuse.

I also think the Vatican should pay for these Papal tours - the Catholic Church is so wealthy, and there is no reason why an aetheist tax-payer should be contributing to this hugely expensive visit.

Just a couple of thoughts. I'm sure the latest round of returning banned-members will be responding soon.

[Electrophile]

So a former member of the Nazi Youth who is head of a church that has spent literally decades shuffling child molesters around from parish to parish so they can abuse and defile more children, rather than doing what they were supposed to do and excommunicating them and removing them from the priesthood.......decides to apologize? Well gee Benny, how nice of you to suddenly get a conscience. While I agree with Knebby's point that aside from apologizing there isn't much he can do, this is somewhat like pouring a bucket of water on a smoldering pile of ash -- too little, too late. The damage has been done.

I was baptized and confirmed a Catholic but haven't stepped foot in a church in over 10 years, and it'll probably stay that way -- I'd ask to be excommunicated, but it would kill my parents, and I love and respect them too much to hurt them in that way. So I'm content to call myself an apathetic agnostic who used to be Catholic, should anyone ever ask.

[kenog]

I also think the Vatican should pay for these Papal tours - the Catholic Church is so wealthy, and there is no reason why an aetheist tax-payer should be contributing to this hugely expensive visit.

Knebby,

Perhaps that is why this tour of Britain was touted as a 'State' visit, as opposed to the Pastoral one of 1982. Maybe a State visit has to be paid for by the host country - I honestly don't know.

Also, I don't know if anyone remembers that it has not just been priests who have been guilty of abuse. Up here in Scotland, successful cases have been brought against nuns who practised cruelty against schoolchildren in their care.

[Electrophile]

My parents went to Catholic school, as did I. However I went to school in a much different generation than they did, so I didn't have to deal with nuns smacking you on the knuckles with a ruler or pointer.

That said, and not to minimize how abusive that can be, that is a whole league removed from priests sexually molesting children. It's like comparing getting smacked in the head with a pillow to getting smacked in the head with a threaded pipe.

[kenog]

My parents went to Catholic school, as did I. However I went to school in a much different generation than they did, so I didn't have to deal with nuns smacking you on the knuckles with a ruler or pointer.

That said, and not to minimize how abusive that can be, that is a whole league removed from priests sexually molesting children. It's like comparing getting smacked in the head with a pillow to getting smacked in the head with a threaded pipe.

Electrophile,

The nuns in this situation went beyone the smacking on hands with a ruler routine. There was a feature film made here in Scotland about it, produced by filmaker Peter Mullan. The cases were brought to court successfully after many, many years had passed. There was a sexual element to the abuse with the nuns forcing the girls to stand before them naked and making mocking remarks.

I was at a Catholic school and they always insist on having teaching nuns on the staff - they really are not suitable for dealing with children. We used to call them 'the Black Mafia'.

[Electrophile]

There was a sexual element to the abuse with the nuns forcing the girls to stand before them naked and making mocking remarks.

Good grief. More predators.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Electrophile

[Chowder]

It is an insult not only to the victims of institutionalised paedophilia but also to British society that this mealy-mouthed clown is being allowed into the UK to preach his wicked doctrine. The fact that we're paying for it is a relative trifle, but certainly adds insult to injury. There is no place in civilised society for the Roman Catholic Church - it is, in my opinion, an abomination.

I can't wait for the aliens to land. Let's see those bastards explain that one away.

[redrum]

The Christians are just an easy target.

Shouldn't the ACLU also apologize for defending NAMBLA members?

Others also put the pervert Allen Ginsberg on a pedestal.

[Electrophile]

No one here is blasting Christians. We're talking about Catholics. Not all Christians are Catholics. And yes, Catholics are an easy target because there's a lot of effed-up shit going on in that establishment.

[silvermedalist]

No one here is blasting Christians. We're talking about Catholics. Not all Christians are Catholics. And yes, Catholics are an easy target because there's a lot of effed-up shit going on in that establishment.

Well there are bad apples in every bunch. So many here seem to be condemning Catholics. I am a Catholica and will die one. And I know many that are very sincere. All priests are not child molestors.

[Electrophile]

Did anyone here say that all priests were child molesters? Did anyone here say they were condemning all Catholics? Speaking only for what I said, I was condemning the Church for allowing this to go on, unpunished, for as long as they did.

BTW, what I find hysterical is that you don't like the thought of people lumping all Catholics together in regards to this issue, but you've got no problem lumping all Muslims together and saying we should be afraid of them, just because a small percentage of 1 billion are radical extremists. So it's okay for you to broad-brush people of one faith, but don't anyone dare do it to the religion YOU ascribe to? Interesting.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Electrophile

[silvermedalist]

Did anyone here say that all priests were child molesters? Did anyone here say they were condemning all Catholics? Speaking only for what I said, I was condemning the Church for allowing this to go on, unpunished, for as long as they did.

BTW, what I find hysterical is that you don't like the thought of people lumping all Catholics together in regards to this issue, but you've got no problem lumping all Muslims together and saying we should be afraid of them, just because a small percentage of 1 billion are radical extremists. So it's okay for you to broad-brush people of one faith, but don't anyone dare do it to the religion YOU ascribe to? Interesting.

So predictable. I knew this was coming from you. I think the percentage is a bit higher than it should be with these extremists. I dont know of any Catholics that flew planes into buildings to perform mass murder. Nobody came out with the specific words about priests but the references seem to be there and the apparent dislike for the religion is their choice. I dont agree with every single rule or decision of any religion. But some of the reactiions seem a bit broad brushed as you put it. There is a far greater outcry of hatred towards christians and jews by the Muslims than there ever was in reverse, perhaps with the exception of Isreal. I stand by my view of Muslims and the way they have represented themselves in recent times. And I made the mistake of replying by including your post. That part was not inteneded. I still have no clue how to single out part of the quote, other than highlighting and deleting part of the post. I dont hate any mass group of people. I have to abide by the laws of Christ. So I must try and "love my enemy:" I am human and too weak to obey that. But If a Muslim is a good and well meaning person, then I am all for them. But I have yet to meet one and I see them burning our flag in the streets. I see what they did on 9/11. You can say what you want. You are always right arent you? Including your unworthy praises of this sitting president who hasn't shown me jack shit.

[silvermedalist]

So a former member of the Nazi Youth who is head of a church that has spent literally decades shuffling child molesters around from parish to parish so they can abuse and defile more children, rather than doing what they were supposed to do and excommunicating them and removing them from the priesthood.......decides to apologize? Well gee Benny, how nice of you to suddenly get a conscience. While I agree with Knebby's point that aside from apologizing there isn't much he can do, this is somewhat like pouring a bucket of water on a smoldering pile of ash -- too little, too late. The damage has been done.

I was baptized and confirmed a Catholic but haven't stepped foot in a church in over 10 years, and it'll probably stay that way -- I'd ask to be excommunicated, but it would kill my parents, and I love and respect them too much to hurt them in that way. So I'm content to call myself an apathetic agnostic who used to be Catholic, should anyone ever ask.

This is such an absurd statement; First of all, he did not become a Nazi yourth by his own educated choice. You did what you had to do or else. And then you accuse Catholic leaders of deliberately sending child molestors out on some kind of mission. Like they knew exactly who was doing what. Get real.

[Electrophile]

Your weltanschauung is flawed. How about you go about fixing it. I personally would be embarrassed to be espousing some of the things that you do. I guess that's the difference between you and I -- I have some shame.

[silvermedalist]

Your weltanschauung is flawed. How about you go about fixing it. I personally would be embarrassed to be espousing some of the things that you do. I guess that's the difference between you and I -- I have some shame.

Sorry, I am not going to go digging for the translation. Nice try. What is it that I do? I just dont get you

[Electrophile]

And then you accuse Catholic leaders of deliberately sending child molestors out on some kind of mission. Like they knew exactly who was doing what. Get real.

I think you need to educate yourself more on this subject. Also, you need to read my posts better. If you think that there were bishops and cardinals who DIDN'T know what they were doing, you're absolutely insane. Go read up on Cardinal Law and get back to us.

[silvermedalist]

I think you need to educate yourself more on this subject. Also, you need to read my posts better. If you think that there were bishops and cardinals who DIDN'T know what they were doing, you're absolutely insane. Go read up on Cardinal Law and get back to us.

You have to believe what you are reading is what it all comes down to. Accusations of who knew what and when they kinew it and all of that type of stuff. Lets go digging as much dirt we can about the heirarchy of Catholocism and give the Muslims a free pass right? Sounds like that is what you are doing to me. Still not up on my German. I guess its too bad to translate in English?

Well Liz is either of to the Misty Mountains or looking up more German slang to throw my way!

Edited September 19, 2010 by silvermedalist

[Patrycja]

What else can he do? I mean, I am open to answers here. I'm not personally a supporter of this current Pope or the current Catholic stance, but what more can he realistically do than apologise, anyone?

I think the Vatican could try to financially compensate those involved, but that would be massively complicated and open to (ironically), abuse.

I also think the Vatican should pay for these Papal tours - the Catholic Church is so wealthy, and there is no reason why an aetheist tax-payer should be contributing to this hugely expensive visit.

Just a couple of thoughts. I'm sure the latest round of returning banned-members will be responding soon.

Let the countdown begin...

This is about as reasoned a response as one can hope to get. And it is a good starting point. Acknowledgment and apology is key. If the model of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission for South Africa after abolition of apartheid can be used as a reference point, the Catholic church simply must humble itself utterly and stop giving piecemeal apologies (as if its hoping at each stage - is this enough? how about now?) and engage in full and open transparency as far as its documents of transferred priests/who knew what, when and for how long/ and engage the abuse victims in dialogue. There is something to giving utterance to a thing, and to it being heard, that is a balm for those who are part of it.

They have to be heard. Not just the few who got to meet the Pope this time around, or the other select few who told their tales at other times. There must be an openness from a system set up for the purpose of shining light into every hidden insidious corner that every abuser ever hid in.

There is no other way but from within, with humility and utter honesty. Otherwise, the very foundations of faith, things like do unto others, come to me all you who are weary, will remain devoid of meaning. I don't know how people go on after having had to endure such things, I really don't, but God bless them for somehow piecing themselves together enough to hopefully still be able to give and receive love.

This is a step in the right direction, but it is only a step.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Patrycja

[Electrophile]

I don't give radical extremists a pass. Radical extremists are not all Muslims. I don't know how many times you need to be told this before it finally sinks in, but there it is again.

Furthermore, if you think referencing a person who was in the news for months and months and months over child abuse and sexual molestation scandals "digging for dirt", you haven't the foggiest clue what the phrase actually means. So no, that's not what I'm doing. What I'm doing is shining a nice big spotlight on your glaring hypocrisy. You've got absolutely no problem being bigoted toward Muslims because of what radical extremists did, but you've got a big problem with people lumping everyone in YOUR faith together because of what a small percentage have done. Don't you see that?

BTW, weltanschauung = world view

[silvermedalist]

I don't give radical extremists a pass. Radical extremists are not all Muslims. I don't know how many times you need to be told this before it finally sinks in, but there it is again.

Furthermore, if you think referencing a person who was in the news for months and months and months over child abuse and sexual molestation scandals "digging for dirt", you haven't the foggiest clue what the phrase actually means. So no, that's not what I'm doing. What I'm doing is shining a nice big spotlight on your glaring hypocrisy. You've got absolutely no problem being bigoted toward Muslims because of what radical extremists did, but you've got a big problem with people lumping everyone in YOUR faith together because of what a small percentage have done. Don't you see that?

BTW, weltanschauung = world view

Ok Liz. I have read your points of view. As usual, it always ends the same way. Fighting over religion and abortion I learned a long time ago, are pointless. So I am giving you the last word, in German. Those who start religious threads are simply starting trouble. Knowing it is going to spark alot of heated arguments. That is a fact. As for your opinions of me, you think you can paint me with a brush so well. That you know me so well. You do not. Have a nice night.

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

Well, this discussion is getting pretty ugly to me. I'll just give my two cents. I think its too little too late for any apologies now! The damage has already been done and quite frankly, after all the hell those victims suffered, those wounds would probably never heal! What really made me upset was all this denial, and the literal "sweeping of the issue under the rug". And I aint against any religion because no one should ever fault another person's belief system...believe me...I should know...I do not follow any religion (yes I am an atheist)...I have my own belief system and quite frankly there is nothing wrong with that! I just don't like all the hypocrisy and "can't do anything wrong" and "holier than though" sort of attitude which some have sadly chosen to adopt!

[Anjin-san]

Hi all,

Nothing like a Ramble On donnybrook!

KB