Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Sign in to follow this  
Thorzep

Whole Step Down

Recommended Posts

For You're Life was played in the original key. (G)

I haven't heard every song yet, but these were all played a whole step down:

GTBD

BD

IMTOD

TSRTS

And apparently Stairway was too. Although I haven't heard it yet.

Has anyone heard them all and can tell us if the rest were all down a whole step or not?

Also, I've seen a number of people ask about the theremin in WWL, but haven't seen an answer.

Anybody?

Edited by Thorzep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if TSRTS was down a tone then Stairway must have been as well - he used the double neck for both & I think people would have noticed if he retuned the 12 string neck inbetween the songs...

Here's a list of what guitar on what song - maybe we can match up the down tuned numbers?

I originally posted this over at the hotel:

NB - not in set list order, this is in "guitar order" :)

IMTOD - blonde ES350 (no Danelectro )

FYL - Black Beauty LP Custom

STH/TSRTS - EDS doubleneck (obviously )

Kashmir - the #3 B-bender red LP (bit of a surprise that one)

WLL - the gold Transperformance autotune LP

Everything else seems to have been either #1 or #2. Obviously harder to ID than the others.

Positive ID on:

D&C - #2 (bow in the photos - I can work that one out... )

R&R - #1 (obvious encore photos)

Also all the photos with Page with his jacket on seem to be #1 so that gives:

GTBT - #1

RO - #1

BD - #1 (clear in the BBC video clip)

Tentative (blurry clips etc):

TU - #2 (blurry photos)

NFBM - #1 (JPJ on the 8-string bass so I'm guessing that it's NFBM)

NQ - #1

SIBLY - #2 (edited after seeing it on Youtube)

MMH - #2 (blury photos)

Edited by huw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only songs I know that they played in tune were Kashmir (sounded correct to me), Whole Lotta Love, and Since I've Been Loving You.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WLL - the gold Transperformance autotune LP

quote]Thanks!

So what did they segue into in WWL. If he's using the transperformance autotune, there must be a reason, no?

Edited by Thorzep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thor - no segue, just WLL.

He uses the autotune in the middle part: he'll bash the open strings, hit a tuning button then make arm gestures while the guitar goes into another tuning. Wacky effect - sort of auto chord changes. He did it on the P&P tours.

I need to edit my list of guitars/songs - I've just seen a Youtube clip of SIBLY and that was on #2, not #1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kashmir and SIBLY were definitely played in the original key. I was surprised to see NQ played in the lower key (as presented on HOTH, where Jimmy slowed the track). That one isn't that vocally demanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK. I finally listened to the whole concert and here's a list of the keys they played 'em in:

GTBT "D" Whole step down)

RO "D" Whole step down

BD "G" Whole step down

IMTOD "G" Whole step down

FYL "G" Original key

TUF "Gmin" Original key

NFBM "D" Whole step down

NQ "C" whole step down from Live version/half step down from studio version

SIBLY "Cmin" Original key

DAC "D" Whole step down

STH "G" Whole step down

TSRTS "C" Whole step down

MMH (A Original key)

Kasmir (D Original key)

WLL (E Original key)

RAR "G" Whole step down

Hey RockAction and Trashbag you were right about WLL, Kashmir and SIBLY. Thanks.

Hey huw, thanks for the list of guitars!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After listening to the boot I have to say (and I don't mean to be too critical here, since it was pretty fucking amazing even listening to an average audience recording) I'm not a fan of the downtuning.

This is the case with me pretty much always when I hear a band doing songs in lower keys than usual. I tend to feel it takes a lot of the "spark" out of the song. I really felt this with TSRTS. It just sounded so weird to me...maybe it's just me and I'm too picky. But with a number like, say, Rock and Roll, if given a choice between changing the key of the song to G and Plant singing the original melody, or playing in the original key of A with Plant singing that '73-'80 melody...I think I'd go with the latter.

The songs played in the original keys felt so much more "right" to me, and at times I felt like I was listening to Zeppelin in the 70's.

Having said all that...wow. Quite a gig, I must say. Great performances from everyone. Plant really impressed me. I feel like he's improved so much since the Page and Plant tours. I'm not really talking about reaching notes here or anything, just overall delivery and singing style. I've been at times annoyed with his vocal "experimentations" in the last decade or so, but here he was really SINGING. It was great. And Jason blew me away.

No disrespect at all intended towards Bonzo. He's the best of all time, we all know that, and he is irreplaceable. But at the same time, after listening to this show the first thing I said to myself was "That WAS Led Zeppelin." Not Page/Plant/Jones with some drummer...it all came together and it was the real thing as far as I'm concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't heard No Quarter yet, but I think that would benefit from the downtuning. Nobody's Fault sounds good to me. Both of those songs are as close to metal as Zep ever got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the songs definitely sound better as the originals, but i'm not opposed to them tuning a whole step down on some songs to better fit Robert's vocal range. I dont think he can hit those high notes as well anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They've been playing a step down in some of those songs for years before 1980. Especially Rock and Roll and IMTOD I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to get all this info. I kind of suspected that the finger fracture was actually some time spent getting all of this kind of thing sorted. McCartney is the only person I can think of who went on tour in his sixties singing in the original key but he hasn't any vocalist chops to uphold.

I think that if Robert gets into the Zep on a few more shows, he may find he can 'load' the original voice but I don't blame him for retuning. And the lower tuning has a certain growl factor I thought was good in itself.

As somebody else has dubbed them, this is Zep 2.0 not a Zep tribute band. I'm all for the change factor.

They've been playing a step down in some of those songs for years before 1980. Especially Rock and Roll and IMTOD I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dazed and Confused sounded absolutely EVIL tuned down

Stairway sounded weird

Song Remains The Same sounded like the Yardbirds tune "Tinker Tailor, Soldier Sailor"

In My Time of Dying-was always played in the key it was played in

I really don't care if they tune down....as long as they are on stage playing together all the better

At least they put on a show WITHOUT embarrassing themselves

now get in the studio and record a new album

Can you imagine Page/Jones/Jason jammin on Crackback or any Zooma material?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They've been playing a step down in some of those songs for years before 1980. Especially Rock and Roll and IMTOD I think.

I believe IMTOD has always been in G when played live. Which is (I think) a step down from the original recording.

Every version I've heard of Rock and Roll has been in A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The songs played in the original keys felt so much more "right" to me, and at times I felt like I was listening to Zeppelin in the 70's.

I bet if you didn't know they were tuning down and the thought had never occurred to you, you never would have noticed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe IMTOD has always been in G when played live. Which is (I think) a step down from the original recording.

That's what I thought but IMTOD was slower for this show than any other Zepp version I've heard.

Edited by NickZepp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Jason in the interview he did today on radio also revealed some things about the way Zep work and have worked in the past. He was talking about how it was one thing learning the songs and another getting from that into locking up with the band's natural improvisationalism (new word). He said that he did it by learning all the various versions that had been active on different tours but still felt like he was trying to do the impossible in attempting to 'be' his dad.

But JPJ gave him a great compliment during the show when after Jason had anticipated every move from everybody, he said 'You know too much!'

So I guess that for Zep, these songs are templates to be worked with, pushed, in general. Not quite on this occasion but even because of the retunings and Jason, still being made anew as ever.

That's what I thought but IMTOD was slower for this show than any other Zepp version I've heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After listening to the boot I have to say (and I don't mean to be too critical here, since it was pretty fucking amazing even listening to an average audience recording) I'm not a fan of the downtuning.

I think that at this point, it was the correct choice for Plant to drop a whole step. Just listen to the reviews. Everyone is talking about how he still hits the high notes! :D That's because he's still singing the same parts that we're all used to (even though in a lower key).

He got a lot of flack during P/P for experimenting with the melodies. I personaly liked that stuff alot because it was new, but alot of people had a problem with it and critized him for not being able to reproduce the songs the way we knew them. Add to that the fact that he was experimenting with indian melodies (which generally piss westerners off) and his reputation for being a has-been was born.

I think that with the wieght of this gig looming, they really wanted to make sure it was Led Zeppelin. And it was!

They've been playing a step down in some of those songs for years before 1980. Especially Rock and Roll and IMTOD I think.
IMTOD yes. RAR no.

I believe IMTOD has always been in G when played live. Which is (I think) a step down from the original recording.

Every version I've heard of Rock and Roll has been in A.

Correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bet if you didn't know they were tuning down and the thought had never occurred to you, you never would have noticed.

I bet I would have.

Although I wish that I didn't know so I could test to see if your theory is correct. I'm especially going to notice when the songs are tuned down as far as they are. Half a step...maybe they'd fool me, but a whole step...I'm gonna notice. (although you'd probably be right to assume that the average person wouldn't)

I have a pretty good ear for pitch and tuning things...I can pretty much always tell right away when a band is playing a song in a different key than normal. Especially songs that are as familiar to me as this. I'm sure this isn't a unique trait for folks around here, but every nuance of every Zeppelin track is engrained in my mind.

Just as an example: if my guitar is out of tune and I don't have a tuner handy, I'll often play the first couple notes of Stairway as a reference point. I know exactly what those notes are supposed to be, so if it's off I know where to go from there.

I had the same problem when I saw The Police a few months ago. As soon as they went into The Truth Hits Everybody (one of my favorite Police songs) I thought "This isn't the song I know!" :D

I acknowledge that this is personal problem of mine...I have a sensitive ear to this kinda stuff and it is an unfortunate distraction for me. Having said that, I loved it. And I would still do unspeakable things to get a chance to see and hear it in person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just as an example: if my guitar is out of tune and I don't have a tuner handy, I'll often play the first couple notes of Stairway as a reference point. I know exactly what those notes are supposed to be, so if it's off I know where to go from there.
:D I do the same with OTHAFA! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thor, I updated my original list over at the hotel - final version (so far ;)), guitars & tunings...

First up - the tunings:

#1 LP - standard tuning down a tone to D

Giffen LP proto-type copy - standard tuning down a tone to D

#2 LP - standard tuning at correct pitch (E)

ES350 - open G

LP custom - standard tuning at correct pitch (E)

EDS 1275 - both necks standard tuning down a tone to D

Cherry b-bender LP - DADGAD at correct pitch (D)

Transperformance LP - standard tuning at correct pitch (E) plus auto-tune craziness!

Although it's been suggested that he used some of the Gibson signature models at points of the show I have not seen any pictures to back this up (& I've been looking hard) so I believe this to be a complete list

So the set, with guitar changes is this:

GTBT/RO/BD - #1

IMTOD - swtich to the ES350 for slide - this is down a tone from the album, but this is the key they played it live in the '70s.

FYL - LP custom Black Beauty, same key as the record

TU - #2

NFBM - #1

NQ - #1 - down a full step from where they used to play it live, but only down a half step from the record, because the recording was slowed down by a half step.

SIBLY - #2 - unusual choice of guitar, but it seems they wanted to do it in the correct key

D&C - the Giffen copy - Page uses this guitar for all the bow work to keep the main guitars free from rossin

STH/TSRTS - EDS 1275

MMH - #2

Kashmir - cherry b-bender LP

WLL - transperformance LP

R&R - #1

So the choice of #1 or #2 for a given song fits exactly with whether it was down tuned or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:D I do the same with OTHAFA! :D

Never heard of relative tuning? Fret the bottom E sting at the 5th fret - that is what your A string should sound like....and so on.

I don't own an electric tuner - I have a reference mp3 which gives an E, thats all you need. Tuners are handy but not essential.

BTW - the first chord in Stairway is an A-minor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really liked that version of -stairway to heaven, singing lower and not over emaphasized, and then the power section at the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Never heard of relative tuning? Fret the bottom E sting at the 5th fret - that is what your A string should sound like....and so on.

I don't own an electric tuner - I have a reference mp3 which gives an E, thats all you need. Tuners are handy but not essential.

BTW - the first chord in Stairway is an A-minor

I don't understand your post. Of course I understand relative tuning. That's what this thread is all about.

BTW The opening chord of Stairway at the reunion show was G-minor. :D

The guitars were tuned down for certain songs, so the playing positions didn't change, but the keys of these songs did.

:blink::blink::blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...