TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Wow you should also go find your sense of humour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 How about no and to the person above if JPJ was allowed to produce more songs LZ would have died out by 1972. Pagey > Jonesy as a producer. Jimmy Page is listed as the Producer of In Through The Out Door .... not John Paul Jones. Was it Jimmy's decision to leave off Darlene and include Hot Dog?? Page is probably the most influential Producer in the history of hard rock. John Paul Jones is no slouch either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Jimmy Page is listed as the Producer of In Through The Out Door .... not John Paul Jones. Was it Jimmy's decision to leave off Darlene and include Hot Dog?? Page is probably the most influential Producer in the history of hard rock. John Paul Jones is no slouch either. He maybe be listed but there is no doubt this is Jonesy's album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Wow you should also go find your sense of humour... Ah yes, the last refuge of someone who can't admit they said something stupid - accuse the other person of not having a sense of humor. I don't even understand why you said it in the first place - you asked me if I could name an album better than ITTOD and I did. Do you hate Physical Graffiti or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 He maybe be listed but there is no doubt this is Jonesy's album ok ..... and Robert's. John Paul Jones wasn't at the final mixing and mastering though ...JImmy was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Ah yes, the last refuge of someone who can't admit they said something stupid - accuse the other person of not having a sense of humor. I don't even understand why you said it in the first place - you asked me if I could name an album better than ITTOD and I did. Do you hate Physical Graffiti or something? I love PG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I absolutely love ITTOD, i discovered Led Zep thanks to this album, this album shows you that JPJ is a fantastic artist.I wish he had composed more songs. ITTOD is among my 3 fav albums, along with Physical Grafitti and Led Zep III. JPJ has ALWAYS been a key writer in Zeppelin beyond a performer. Without his input as a writer there wouldn't be "Good Times Bad Times", "Your Time Is Gonna Come", "Since I've Been Loving You", "Black Dog", "Misty Mountain Hop", "No Quarter", "In The Light", & "Night Flight", & I only named the one's where his contribution as a writer is undeniable nevermind whole band efforts I didn't list. I sincerely believe that those who dislike ITTOD think that Page was soley responsible for the music that came from Zeppelin, that it wasn't truly a "band" effort despite what the writing credits would have us believe. Robert Plant made an excellent point in a Rolling Stone interview in 1988 when he said that Page needs a community workshop to be creative & judging from his post Zeppelin career I'd say he was spot on in that observation. Page may have been the main guy steering the ship in Zeppelin but he's a captain without a crew left without their input which I think is very telling on Presence. Page is not the end all be all in Zeppelin, it worked because they all collaborated not only as performers but writers which holds true for the songs on ITTOD & not so much Presence. I like diversity in the music I listen to, ITTOD has that from beginning to end, Presence has the least diversity of any album in their catalogue which is why I prefer it the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenguitar Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 How about no and to the person above if JPJ was allowed to produce more songs LZ would have died out by 1972. Pagey > Jonesy as a producer. The four members of Queen wrote together for 20 years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The four members of Queen wrote together for 20 years.... Good for Queen? Don't really see how that compares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 ITTOD is not any of that. It needs to be at the bottom of any list because it just isn't up to their standards. But as it turned out the only thing that kept it off the bottom of the list was Coda, and that should have never been released in the first place. In Through the Out Door can be placed at any position on any list of Zeppelin favorites because that is the opinion of the person that placed it there. As for Coda, I'm glad you weren't in charge of what Zeppelin chose to release and not release as I consider it a very welcome addition to my record collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) In Through the Out Door can be placed at any position on any list of Zeppelin favorites because that is the opinion of the person that placed it there. As for Coda, I'm glad you weren't in charge of what Zeppelin chose to release and not release as I consider it a very welcome addition to my record collection. I'll second that. I love Poor Tom, Walter's Walk and Darlene. In fact, I love the whole album. I also love that Jimmy made sure the Drums were at the forefront in all of the mixes. They sound like a battering ram... even more than usual. Edited December 4, 2011 by the chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sure it can be placed at any position. Everyone is entitled to an opinion including me. But let me put it this way: If Zep had disbanded after PG and not even made Presence, I contend that their cataloge of songs would stand as the single most solid acheivment in Rock and Roll history ever, and that being for six solid releases in a row! I still appreciate Presence and on that one I'm happy to have the extra material. ITTOD I could live without entirely for the rest of my life, and based on many polarizing discusssions on ITTOD for years on other forums, I'd have to say my sentiments are not unusual among other fans too. Are you a fan of the Stones? Do you like every album they released? Are you a fan of The Who? What are your thoughts on It's Hard? I was accused of calling someone else a fanboi (which I did not do and am not doing now), but for goodness sakes people, am I to really believe that you love every tid bit of Zep music unconditionally? Even the band doesn't feel that way about their music. Nothing wrong with being honest about this great band is there? I do love Zep entirely except for one anomaly in the catalouge: ITTOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Then you don't love Zeppelin "entirely" but "partially", which is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 As far as Coda's release... you people who feel it shouldn't have been released do realize that Zeppelin did have one more album on their Atlantic contract to fulfill? It's the album the surviving members wish that they didn't have to release but given the circumstances had to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Then you don't love Zeppelin "entirely" but "partially", which is fine. No i love Zeppelin entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I do love Zep entirely except for one anomaly in the catalouge: ITTOD. That's fine and you're not wrong... But neither is the person who loves just ITTOD. How can anyone say they're wrong? If they like it ... they like it. If they don't ... they don't. I used to care... I used to get in arguments over who was a better band or drummer or guitarist or whatever. Now if someone doesn't like what I like, I couldn't care less., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Sure it can be placed at any position. Everyone is entitled to an opinion including me. But let me put it this way: If Zep had disbanded after PG and not even made Presence, I contend that their cataloge of songs would stand as the single most solid acheivment in Rock and Roll history ever, and that being for six solid releases in a row! I still appreciate Presence and on that one I'm happy to have the extra material. ITTOD I could live without entirely for the rest of my life, and based on many polarizing discusssions on ITTOD for years on other forums, I'd have to say my sentiments are not unusual among other fans too. Are you a fan of the Stones? Do you like every album they released? Are you a fan of The Who? What are your thoughts on It's Hard? But Led Zeppelin didn't disband after PG. There are no what if's, this is what we have. I could care less if LZ's catalogue would seem perfect by a segment if they ended with PG because quite frankly it STILL wouldn't be perfect as every band, every artist, every creative person known in existance has not left a perfect body of work & it's delusional to think so. Beatles fans would argue the point that they were the most consistent rock band ever but in the end does it matter? Is it a contest? If so that's the thoughts of a juvenile. Presence isn't "extra" music as you call it, it's their actual official release in their time as an active band! Nothing "extra" about it! It is in your view perhaps because for some reason LZ had to leave a perfect body of work for you to crow about to your peers who may or may not be a fan of the band. Again, if that's the case, it's juvenile. Also, Presence, & LZ3 all have polarizing affects amongst LZ fans so it's not just ITTOD. As far the Stones, I love them, one of my favorite bands. I don't like every album they ever released nor did I sign a contract saying I had to. I don't like every album by every band I love, not one single band. My top 3 bands are LZ, The Clash. & The Smiths. I like half of LZ's Presence & LZ2, I like half of The Clash's Give "Em Enough Rope & Sandinista, & half of The Smiths debut. Shock, horror, I must not be a true fan amongst faceless people on the internet. What it comes down to with my favorite bands is that in their body of work they have left areas that are seminal, infuential, culture changing, & in one word classic. It's not a contest, it's part art, part entertainment & it's there to be enjoyed or not. That simple. As far The Who's That's Hard, I'm not a fan of it but I like Athena so I'm glad they stuck around to record that song as my musical world would be less for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 They could have released another live album and been done with it. The reality is they didn't, they released Coda & we don't know the exact stipulations of their contract & how it had to be fulfilled & if they were all in agreement to a live album, but they all agreed on Coda & that much we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 That's fine and you're not wrong... But neither is the person who loves just ITTOD. How can anyone say they're wrong? If they like it ... they like it. If they don't ... they don't. I used to care... I used to get in arguments over who was a better band or drummer or guitarist or whatever. Now if someone doesn't like what I like, I couldn't care less., I as a person can't say someone's preference is wrong, however I can say if they say one album is better than another and I can say this through global reception and sales figures, so due to that I am able to say anything pre-ITTOD is better than ITTOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yes, and my musical world would be so much better had I never heard Hot Dog and Ozone Baby. But you did so suffer for all eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) I as a person can't say someone's preference is wrong, however I can say if they say one album is better than another and I can say this through global reception and sales figures, so due to that I am able to say anything pre-ITTOD is better than ITTOD. Sales figures don't equal quality, same for "global reception". No matter how you slice it, if you believe everything before In Through the Out Door is better, it still boils down to your own personal opinion, not fact. Edited December 5, 2011 by Jahfin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I as a person can't say someone's preference is wrong, however I can say if they say one album is better than another and I can say this through global reception and sales figures, so due to that I am able to say anything pre-ITTOD is better than ITTOD. Um, ITTOD sold more than Presence & roughly the same as LZ3. Do you enjoy giving misleading information? You must as you keep giving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Um, ITTOD sold more than Presence & roughly the same as LZ3. Do you enjoy giving misleading information? You must as you keep giving it. Sorry I didn't know I said it was the worst selling, oh wait I didn't. When this came out all of the other albums went onto the chart because everyone wanted to buy that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I as a person can't say someone's preference is wrong, however I can say if they say one album is better than another and I can say this through global reception and sales figures, so due to that I am able to say anything pre-ITTOD is better than ITTOD. That would mean "The Bodyguard Soundtrack" and "Millenium" by The Backstreet Boys are "better" than any Led Zeppelin album! They've sold more copies then any individual Zeppelin album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 That would mean "The Bodyguard Soundtrack" and "Millenium" by The Backstreet Boys are "better" than any Led Zeppelin album! They've sold more copies then any individual Zeppelin album. I was talking purely about the Zeppelin catalouge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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