TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 marketable* I do not understand why Jimmy believes these solo projects, Lucifer etc, should not be put out to the masses. Not many would be interested in the musical content from Rising granted, by surely the name of Jimmy would sell it some units. I have put myself down for a copy but I do not see why he shouldn't release this out. Seeing as both DW and LR have been sold only through the website in limited stock other solo work would follow suit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janvier Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Selling CDs has become much like selling rare wine these days. The market is limited, the products scarce and of limited availability. Only a niche of customers are willing to put their dollars into it and there's only a very specific distribution channel. Try tracking the bottle of a given vintage year, the Internet is your best bet to find it (order it). The days of CDs selling like hot bread are over. Jimmy could still be marketable, but in different ways. To begin with, you'll need a product that commands a larger profit margin than a CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetleron Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Jimmy who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 marketable* I do not understand why Jimmy believes these solo projects, Lucifer etc, should not be put out to the masses. Not many would be interested in the musical content from Rising granted, by surely the name of Jimmy would sell it some units. I have put myself down for a copy but I do not see why he shouldn't release this out. Seeing as both DW and LR have been sold only through the website in limited stock other solo work would follow suit... I hate to break the news to you but music is dead. Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber and Glee Live are selling out large arenas. I saw Jeff Beck and Ted Nugent last year in crack box establishments. I don't want to live on a planet where millions pay billions to see a little buy who looks like a lesbian lipsync songs about lolipops or whatever and Stranglehold is being played to only a few hundred people at a time in small arenas. Jimmy can still sell, but not in huge numbers anymore. I was in a music+ store the other day and the kid working there had never heard of Jimmy Page or Robert Plant! There is just not that big of a market for real music anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecube Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I hate to break the news to you but music is dead. Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber and Glee Live are selling out large arenas. I saw Jeff Beck and Ted Nugent last year in crack box establishments. I don't want to live on a planet where millions pay billions to see a little buy who looks like a lesbian lipsync songs about lolipops or whatever and Stranglehold is being played to only a few hundred people at a time in small arenas. Jimmy can still sell, but not in huge numbers anymore. I was in a music+ store the other day and the kid working there had never heard of Jimmy Page or Robert Plant! There is just not that big of a market for real music anymore. What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChase Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It is very sad but I agree-music as we know it is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I hate to break the news to you but music is dead. In a word, bullshit. To speak directly to the subject I would imagine Page is doing these special vinyl releases of the Death Wish II and Lucifer's Rising soundtracks as a treat for his fans. That's not to say that he would take the same approach if and when he decides to release new music. During an interview he did prior to the launch of his website he hinted at the possibility of making new music available via downloads but like a lot of artists who've been around as long as Page, they're at a loss as how to do so in a day and age where so many are wont to just download music for free rather than actually pay for it. That has to be rather frustrating for him. Hopefully, he and others who are facing the same dilemma will be able to figure out a workable business model they are happy with. As for music being "dead", nothing could be farther from the truth. There have always been big name pop stars who draw more. They're more mainstream and therefore appeal to a wider audience. In 2012 music has been divided up into so many separate niches that it's next to impossible to reach a large audience as has been done in the past. Personally, I have a hard time keeping up with all of the music I would like to purchase and artists I would like to see in concert. It doesn't matter to me if they're selling out large arenas or not. What's important to me is the music itself. A prime example of a virtually unknown artist breaking through to the masses is Alabama Shakes. A year ago if someone had asked me who they were, I couldn't have answered. However, over this past summer the Drive-By Truckers took them out on the road as their opening act, as did the North Mississippi Allstars. These opening slots combined with lots of favorable press, fans spreading the word through social media (the new grassroots) and having their single "Hold On" featured on a Zales commercial have led to them appearing on Austin City Limits (pretty much unheard of for a band as new as Alabama Shakes), headlining their own tour and appearing at several big name festivals this Spring and Summer (including Bonnaroo). That just goes to show that not only is music not dead but that a band can still be recognized in a time period where potential music consumers have a million other things that are trying to attract their attention via the internet, TV and other media outlets. All this and the Shakes don't even have an album out. Their full length debut, Boys & Girls, is due for release in early April. They did have an EP available (only at shows) but it's no longer for sale. Music dead? No, far from it. If anything it's more alive than ever before but the amount of choices we all have to access it are more overwhelming than ever before. Advances in technology such as the internet, iTunes, etc. have changed the game immensely. If it means the demise of the structure of the music business as we once knew it that can only be a good thing as it puts control of the music back into the artists' hands, which is exactly where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 In a word, bullshit. To speak directly to the subject I would imagine Page is doing these special vinyl releases of the Death Wish II and Lucifer's Rising soundtracks as a treat for his fans. That's not to say that he would take the same approach if and when he decides to release new music. During an interview he did prior to the launch of his website he hinted at the possibility of making new music available via downloads but like a lot of artists who've been around as long as Page, they're at a loss as how to do so in a day and age where so many are wont to just download music for free rather than actually pay for it. That has to be rather frustrating for him. Hopefully, he and others who are facing the same dilemma will be able to figure out a workable business model they are happy with. As for music being "dead", nothing could be farther from the truth. There have always been big name pop stars who draw more. They're more mainstream and therefore appeal to a wider audience. In 2012 music has been divided up into so many separate niches that it's next to impossible to reach a large audience as has been done in the past. Personally, I have a hard time keeping up with all of the music I would like to purchase and artists I would like to see in concert. It doesn't matter to me if they're selling out large arenas or not. What's important to me is the music itself. A prime example of a virtually unknown artist breaking through to the masses is Alabama Shakes. A year ago if someone had asked me who they were, I couldn't have answered. However, over this past summer the Drive-By Truckers took them out on the road as their opening act, as did the North Mississippi Allstars. These opening slots combined with lots of favorable press, fans spreading the word through social media (the new grassroots) and having their single "Hold On" featured on a Zales commercial have led to them appearing on Austin City Limits (pretty much unheard of for a band as new as Alabama Shakes), headlining their own tour and appearing at several big name festivals this Spring and Summer (including Bonnaroo). That just goes to show that not only is music not dead but that a band can still be recognized in a time period where potential music consumers have a million other things that are trying to attract their attention via the internet, TV and other media outlets. All this and the Shakes don't even have an album out. Their full length debut, Boys & Girls, is due for release in early April. They did have an EP available (only at shows) but it's no longer for sale. I totally agree that Page is releasing them as vinyl as a special treat for his fans. He would sell good (but not great) if he released them the normal way. I still feel that music has lost it's soul though. Once in a while there is a good band but there are not a large number of them anymore like in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The Death Wish II soundtrack wasn't a big seller when it was offered to the masses in the early 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I totally agree that Page is releasing them as vinyl as a special treat for his fans. He would sell good (but not great) if he released them the normal way. I still feel that music has lost it's soul though. Once in a while there is a good band but there are not a large number of them anymore like in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. There's as many good artists now as there has been in the past, maybe even more but times have changed. In so doing, the means by which those artists reached popularity has changed too. Personally, I feel it has been for the better. In the past, I was unable to count the number of times artists who I've read about that have been taken for a ride by their record company or booking agent. These days it appears musicians are much more knowledgable about those sorts of things and are wrestling control away from the labels and corporate behemoths such as Clear Channel and Live Nation. I'm all for it. It's funny, on this board there has always been a contingent of people that are constantly complaining about how there's no good music today and how they wish they were born in another time but on other boards I encounter people (like myself) who find it next to impossible to keep up with all of the music they would like to hear. While it may not be true of everyone that posts here, it's been my experience that a lot of members long for a past they weren't a part of (because they were either too young or weren't born yet) and it's been romanticized beyond belief. Believe it or not, there was also shitty music back in the 60s and 70s (I should know, I lived through it). Lots of people here seem to want some sort of recreation of Led Zeppelin or an artist that sounds very similar to them (or some other band from the 60s or 70s). I've got some news for you, it isn't going to happen. Same as there's never going to be another Beatles or Dylan. If people would free their minds of these self imposed constraints they might just find that there's plenty of good music happening out there these days. It's everywhere you turn whether it be YouTube or internet radio stations but it's not going to be handed to you on a silver platter. You have to seek it out. Unfortunately people don't seem to want to be arsed to seek out music on their own. In my case, it's something I enjoy doing as I'm always looking for that next discovery, an album I can listen to over and over again and not get tired of it. Apparently I'm in the minority, especially on this board but believe me, there's tons of others out there like myself who don't seem to have a problem seeking out new music they enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 There's as many good artists now as there has been in the past, maybe even more but times have changed. In so doing, the means by which those artists reached popularity has changed too. Personally, I feel it has been for the better. In the past, I was unable to count the number of times artists who I've read about that have been taken for a ride by their record company or booking agent. These days it appears musicians are much more knowledgable about those sorts of things and are wrestling control away from the labels and corporate behemoths such as Clear Channel and Live Nation. I'm all for it. It's funny, on this board there has always been a contingent of people that are constantly complaining about how there's no good music today and how they wish they were born in another time but on other boards I encounter people (like myself) who find it next to impossible to keep up with all of the music they would like to hear. While it may not be true of everyone that posts here, it's been my experience that a lot of members long for a past they weren't a part of (because they were either too young or weren't born yet) and it's been romanticized beyond belief. Believe it or not, there was also shitty music back in the 60s and 70s (I should know, I lived through it). Lots of people here seem to want some sort of recreation of Led Zeppelin or an artist that sounds very similar to them (or some other band from the 60s or 70s). I've got some news for you, it isn't going to happen. Same as there's never going to be another Beatles or Dylan. If people would free their minds of these self imposed constraints they might just find that there's plenty of good music happening out there these days. It's everywhere you turn whether it be YouTube or internet radio stations but it's not going to be handed to you on a silver platter. You have to seek it out. Unfortunately people don't seem to want to be arsed to seek out music on their own. In my case, it's something I enjoy doing as I'm always looking for that next discovery, an album I can listen to over and over again and not get tired of it. Apparently I'm in the minority, especially on this board but believe me, there's tons of others out there like myself who don't seem to have a problem seeking out new music they enjoy. I agree with most of the stuff you say but we'll have to agree to disagree on today's music. I just personally don't enjoy much of what's out there right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I agree with most of the stuff you say but we'll have to agree to disagree on today's music. I just personally don't enjoy much of what's out there right. I'm curious as to what it is that you've heard. If it's what is being offered by the majority of mainstream outlets then I think that is somewhat understandable but if you're not making any effort to dig any deeper than that, therein lies the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Basically, I turn on the radio, it's crap. All the time people say "check out this band" and I rarely like them. Sometimes I do though. Share some bands, I'd like to hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesamay2003 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 There is a ton of music out there...but the industry has changed for sure, in chaos right now...it is very hard to sell albums these days, only a few act do in big volume. While there is more music out there than ever as a result of technology...not sure how good most of it is. There is a reason people still buy Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, etc...music seems much more disposable now. I don't think very many classic albums are being produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Basically, I turn on the radio, it's crap. No wonder. With very few exceptions most radio stations are carbon copies of each other these days because they're all owned by corporate conglomerates which leave little to no room for anything original. On top of that, most labels used to have A & R departments which allowed for artist development. Unfortunately that way of thinking has also fallen to the wayside over the years. All the time people say "check out this band" and I rarely like them. Sometimes I do though. Share some bands, I'd like to hear them. Some of my favorite current artists are Sharon Van Etten, Mount Moriah, Megafaun, The Love Language and Nada Surf. I would also suggest checking out Dan Baird and Homemade Sin. You may or may not remember Dan from his band the Georgia Satellites. He's currently touring with an all star band that includes guitarist Warren Hodges (Jason and the Scorchers) and bassist Keith Christopher (Shaver, Kenny Wayne Sheppard). You might also want to check the Current music recommendations thread in the Other Bands/Music forum for suggestions. There is a ton of music out there...but the industry has changed for sure, in chaos right now...it is very hard to sell albums these days, only a few act do in big volume. While there is more music out there than ever as a result of technology...not sure how good most of it is. There is a reason people still buy Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, etc...music seems much more disposable now. I don't think very many classic albums are being produced. Those bands sold well even before the internet so I'm not sure how much sales of their records have to do with the current state of things. As for "classic albums", it's kind of hard to determine what's going to be "classic" until an album has been out for a number of years. It's not something that can be determined immediately upon an album's release. There has always been sales of singles whether it was a 45, a cassingle or a CD but these days downloads (of the legal variety) of single songs are largely what drive the market. That doesn't mean good (or even great) albums aren't being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhotter74 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Jahfin hit the nail on the head - bravo! There are many great bands and musicians out there, but you wouldn't know it by the beyond-dismal state of popular/mainstream music and its cultural overlords (Clear Channel and myriad other mammoth corporations. Alabama Shakes is one of my favorite new bands - believe they even have a Zeppelin cover floating around (sorry if someone already mentioned that) I like Jimmy's business model so far (though I have yet to win any special lottery to get hands on the Lucifer Rising album, which i would love) - that way, he makes it more certain that his music will get picked up by people who are actually fans - and not profiteers (though I bet we'll be seeing some of these special editions on eBay!) In a word, bullshit.. . . .(snipped the rest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Alabama Shakes is one of my favorite new bands - believe they even have a Zeppelin cover floating around (sorry if someone already mentioned that) It's not been mentioned in this particular thread but I'm sure it's been posted on the board several times at this point. Here it is again: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janvier Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Basically, I turn on the radio, it's crap. All the time people say "check out this band" and I rarely like them. Sometimes I do though. Share some bands, I'd like to hear them. I'm sure there's plenty of good music out there, there's no denying that, Jahfin, but I can understand DAS' point. Personally I haven't been able to identify with any "new" acts, most of the bands, artists I follow peaked in the mid-eighties to mid-nineties, everything from 2000-on I just haven't been able to like, there's this niche of bands I like and then there's nothing else.. I'm conservative or I'm in a comfort zone but I sure have tried to "like" newer bands, so far with very little success.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm sure there's plenty of good music out there, there's no denying that, Jahfin, but I can understand DAS' point. Personally I haven't been able to identify with any "new" acts, most of the bands, artists I follow peaked in the mid-eighties to mid-nineties, everything from 2000-on I just haven't been able to like, there's this niche of bands I like and then there's nothing else.. I'm conservative or I'm in a comfort zone but I sure have tried to "like" newer bands, so far with very little success.. Like I've said, I know of others like myself who can't possibly afford to buy every new album that comes out by the artists they like. The same thing goes for attending live concerts. Times are different, you're not going to have some big time star as we've had in the past because of how splintered the formats have become. You also have conglomerates such as Clear Channel and Live Nation that aren't interested in originality, they're interested in making money so they're going to play what sells. There's also the case of the record labels where there's no such thing as artist development anymore. If a new artist doesn't have a hit straight out of the gate the label is going to drop them like a hot potato. In an environment such as this there is no room for growth. That's where the internet and other media outlets come in that give the consumer the ability to seek out music on their own and for free at that, especially with services such as Spotify. That is the wave of the future so if people are turning to more traditional media outlets such as commercial radio to discover new music, no wonder they're disappointed. As for myself, I take tips from friends about new music. That's something I've always done except now I have the internet at my disposal to find more people that are into the artists and genres of music that I'm into so that increases my chances of discovering new music. I also happen to live in an area (the Triangle region of NC) where lots of artists pass through on tours. In addition to that, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill is brimming with music of a variety of genres. I moved to this region of North Carolina specifically for that reason, to be in the hotbed of the local music scene. We have lots of venues here that are extremely supportive of local music as well as touring acts. There's also no shortage of radio stations such as WXDU (Duke), WKNC (NC State), WXYC (UNC) and WUNC that support local music. Thing is, with the internet, others also have access to these radio stations as well as tons of others. It just depends on how much a person is really interested in seeking out new music. If they are expecting the next big band that's going to trip their trigger to be heard on the local Clear Channel controlled radio station in their neighborhood, the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. They are going to have to make an actual effort to scan the dial via the internet or through services such as Spotify or through the many, many options available to anyone that has iTunes to find music they may like. Another radio station I really enjoy listening to is KEXP out of Seattle. They play new music, old music and feature block programming where they turn the spotlight on specific genres and subgenres such as punk, reggae, blues, alt.country, folk, bluegrass, etc. Speaking just for myself, I don't care if some artist I like isn't headlining huge stadium tours or doesn't have a number one hit. Sure, I wish them all the success in the world and sincerely hope it comes their way. That is why I do my best to spread the word about artists I like whether it be here, in person or via social media. That is the key in 2012, at least from my perspective. It all comes down to making a grassroots effort to spread the word about artists that you like but they're not going to be handed to you all neatly gift wrapped and ready for consumption. If you truly love music and want to discover that next new artist that you're wild and crazy about you're going to have to take it upon yourself to find them. I'm perfectly ok with that. Apparently some people aren't or they want some carbon copy of an artist like Led Zeppelin (or whoever their favorite band is) who is well within their comfort zone. I am not that person. I long for that next new album that I just can't get enough of so I actively seek out music that interests me via any source I can find whether it be print, the web, local radio, internet radio or going to see some band (local or otherwise) I've never heard of. The days of an artist gaining worldwide exposure due to radio airplay are long over with. As I've mentioned, there's lots of options for discovering new music out there. I don't need to have my tastes in music justified by my favorite new artist selling out large arena tours all over the world or by them being plastered on the cover of all the major music magazines or by hearing them every five minutes on the radio. These are very different times where the possibility of something like that happening just isn't very likely. The rare exception is a band like Alabama Shakes who just so happened to slip through the cracks. They may not be to everyone's taste on this board but apparently quite a few people like them or else they wouldn't be enjoying the amount of success that's presently coming their way. I'm very glad to see it but they are the exception rather than the rule in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetleron Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 It is very sad but I agree-music as we know it is dead. dude..........you ever see the Firm? i did......twice they sucked i'll trade you 2 lady GaGa tickets for two years off my life just so i can have fun for 2 fuckin seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f2walsh Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Beetleron, the Firm did not SUCK! What show did you see that qualifies you to say this statement? BTW I was at OKC 1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChase Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I saw jimmy page live for the first time with the Firm. It was very exciting and a great show. I am a Firm fan bigtime. Yes, there is great music being made today but the masses dont care, hence, music is dead. Just an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I don't think the "masses don't care" I believe it's because it's more difficult to reach the masses these days. Still, reaching the masses doesn't matter to me. Does your favorite band have to reach Beatle-mania or Nirvana type status to justify their greatness to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Putting the whole "music is dead" discussion aside, here's an inspiring clip about one person's passion for vinyl. WARNING includes Led Zeppelin II and Kiss Rock n' Roll Over content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesamay2003 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Where would all the great bands of yesterday be without the time and patience of artist development by the record companies, and the allure of fame, fortune and conquering the world...don't kid yourself, while love of making music is a big part of the equation, so is the rest of it. In todays environment, a lot of musicians that might have been great are going to quit or never try, because they also need to make a living. A great band that's target market is selling 1000 - 10,000 albums is never going to survive financially...don't ask me how I know!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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