Electrophile Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Oh, you mean like the Spanish Inquisition, where if the Jews and Moors that lived in Spain didn't convert to Catholicism, they were killed? Already did that and left it. Or how about the reign of Bloody Mary Tudor, where if people didn't renounce heresy (read: Protestantism) and join the "true" Church (read: Catholicism) they were killed? Or even better, how about The Crusades? All fine examples of Christian tolerance. No, I'm not okay with that. People shouldn't be forced to be religious at the point of a bayonet. In any event, that would never happen in this country, because of the 1st amendment. Unlike the examples I gave above, the United States doesn't have a state religion, so forcing mass groups of people to convert or face death is fantasy. Also, there's a big difference between everything discussed in this thread so far, and the forcible conversion of a large segment of society on punishment of death. Gay marriage, abortion, eating/not eating at Chick-fil-A....none of those things infringe on anyone else's civil rights. Forcing someone to convert or else they die, certainly does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 What about abortion? Doesn't abortion infringe on the baby's civil rights? Or do babies not have civil rights? I think sucking somebody's brains out, tearing their limbs apart, or burning their skin with concentrated salt is violating the baby's rights. Did you know that Planned Parenthood is an organization that was created to get rid of black people? The founder of Planned Parenthood said, "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Margaret Sanger's opinions on African-Americans were and continue to be, egregious. That has fuck-all to do with the topic of this conversation. As a matter of note, less than 1% of Planned Parenthood's annual income and services are used for abortions. 99% are for STD screening and testing, birth control, mammagrams, and sexual education. I have no idea why you chose to introduce that information into this thread, other than to muddy the waters, which is poor debate technique. You really ought to know better. Just because the person who founded Planned Parenthood had opinions that frankly, many, many people at that time held, doesn't make Planned Parenthood now a horrible, evil, dastardly organization. It could be argued, that since PP's largest expenditures are on birth control and sexual education, they're the largest abortion preventers in the United States, since contraception and education are great ways to reduce the numbers of abortions in this country without making them illegal. To answer your previous question, if the fetus is not viable outside the womb, it's not considered a human being under the law. I go with what the law says, as I'm not a doctor or a scientist....or even a lawyer. That's why if you kill a woman who is pregnant in her first trimester, it's one count of murder, if you kill a woman pregnant in her 2nd or 3rd trimester, it's two counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docron Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 [via Hillsbourough, please] http://youtu.be/FHfgdkKgq04?hd=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 BTW, this reminds me how much I hate discussing politics with people who aren't even old enough to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 You try having meaningful conversation with a 15 year old self-professed Jesus freak who is looking forward to being murdered for Christ, doesn't believe atheism exists, and thinks Catholics aren't Christians....and that's just the religious stuff. I have incredibly religious family members who'd tear their hair out after 30 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docron Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 BTW, this reminds me how much I hate discussing politics with people who aren't even old enough to vote. [especially because Obama sucks]? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidZoso Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Face the facts: you got handed your ass last time, by someone half your age. Stick around this time - I do believe V7's about to do it again. Alert the media I agree with Major Major. I think Victoria is very smart for her age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I don't see where she said anything that factually disputes anything I said. She doesn't agree with abortion, so naturally those are going to be her opinions. She's entitled to them. However, I could care less what Margaret Sanger said nearly 100 years ago, especially when the opinions she held were widely held by a huge portion of society, regardless of political party or religion. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now.....but that doesn't mean the service she started doesn't have legitimate and necessary uses in today's society. No one in their right mind actually thinks the people who run PP today think black people should be exterminated like weeds. I don't believe you're a human being under the law and thus afforded all the rights the rest of us have until you're viable outside the womb. That's how the law defines it, so that's what I go with. So no, I don't think abortion violates anyone's civil rights because there's no human being involved, aside from the mother. What exactly did she "win"? Your undying gratitude because you're about *this* close to tattooing her name on your ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docron Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Margaret Sanger's opinions on African-Americans were and continue to be, egregious. That has fuck-all to do with the topic of this conversation. As a matter of note, less than 1% of Planned Parenthood's annual income and services are used for abortions. 99% are for STD screening and testing, birth control, mammagrams, and sexual education. I have no idea why you chose to introduce that information into this thread, other than to muddy the waters, which is poor debate technique. You really ought to know better. Just because the person who founded Planned Parenthood had opinions that frankly, many, many people at that time held, doesn't make Planned Parenthood now a horrible, evil, dastardly organization. It could be argued, that since PP's largest expenditures are on birth control and sexual education, they're the largest abortion preventers in the United States, since contraception and education are great ways to reduce the numbers of abortions in this country without making them illegal. To answer your previous question, if the fetus is not viable outside the womb, it's not considered a human being under the law. I go with what the law says, as I'm not a doctor or a scientist....or even a lawyer. That's why if you kill a woman who is pregnant in her first trimester, it's one count of murder, if you kill a woman pregnant in her 2nd or 3rd trimester, it's two counts. So they fund other things, that doesn't mean they don't support abortion. Good for them for having educated people on sex, they still cause many babies pain. It may be the law but that doesn't make it right. I wouldn't even let an animal go through the torture that abortion puts babies through. Have you ever even seen an aborted baby? They have little videos on youtube that show 5 gallon buckets lined up against a wall with dead babies in them that have just gone through a salt abortion. If you didn't know what place you were in you would think you were in Sparta. (referring to the fact they through babies out because they looked bad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Face the facts: you got handed your ass last time, by someone half your age. Stick around this time - I do believe V7's about to do it again. I guess it's all in your point of view. I'm quite certain V7 had her ass handed to her by Electrophile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docron Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 . (referring to the fact they through babies out because they looked bad." [threw] [that's right... I just did that]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 [threw] [that's right... I just did that]. lol alright (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 You try having meaningful conversation with a 15 year old self-professed Jesus freak who is looking forward to being murdered for Christ, doesn't believe atheism exists, and thinks Catholics aren't Christians....and that's just the religious stuff. I have incredibly religious family members who'd tear their hair out after 30 seconds. You misunderstood me on my belief that atheism doesn't exist. It is simple logic, do I really need to explain it again? I never Catholics are not Christians. They are still saved we just have different practices. For example they have a devout respect for Mary, we do not recognize her the same way. Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.- 1 Timothy 4:12 I don't care how much hair your relatives lose about my views, according to you "whatever works for them it's just not for me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 So they fund other things, that doesn't mean they don't support abortion. Good for them for having educated people on sex, they still cause many babies pain. It may be the law but that doesn't make it right. I wouldn't even let an animal go through the torture that abortion puts babies through. Have you ever even seen an aborted baby? They have little videos on youtube that show 5 gallon buckets lined up against a wall with dead babies in them that have just gone through a salt abortion. If you didn't know what place you were in you would think you were in Sparta. (referring to the fact they through babies out because they looked bad." I never said they didn't support abortion. I said that abortion services make up a small percentage of what they do every year and how much money they spend. The right-wing's obsession with Planned Parenthood stems from erroneous and false reports that all they do is abort babies all day, every day, and do so on the government dime. They do far more work to prevent pregnancy, which in turn prevents abortion, than they do nearly anything else. For that alone, they should be applauded. I don't need to see YouTube videos of what aborted fetuses look like, I've already seen them. Pro-life groups on my college campus passed out plenty of leaflets and pamphlets chock full of imagery and fear-mongering scare tactics. Animals and already living humans beings go through more torture on a daily basis, all over this world, than what happens during an abortion. Abortion is not supposed to be pretty, it's not supposed to be nice. It's the termination of a pregnancy, not a facial and manicure. It's a serious medical procedure that shouldn't be undertaken lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docron Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 [ahhh, religion] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I never said they didn't support abortion. I said that abortion services make up a small percentage of what they do every year and how much money they spend. The right-wing's obsession with Planned Parenthood stems from erroneous and false reports that all they do is abort babies all day, every day, and do so on the government dime. They do far more work to prevent pregnancy, which in turn prevents abortion, than they do nearly anything else. For that alone, they should be applauded. I don't need to see YouTube videos of what aborted fetuses look like, I've already seen them. Pro-life groups on my college campus passed out plenty of leaflets and pamphlets chock full of imagery and fear-mongering scare tactics. Animals and already living humans beings go through more torture on a daily basis, all over this world, than what happens during an abortion. Abortion is not supposed to be pretty, it's not supposed to be nice. It's the termination of a pregnancy, not a facial and manicure. It's a serious medical procedure that shouldn't be undertaken lightly. It doesn't matter how money is spent on what, they still encourage it. I would much rather live life than have my skull punctured and have the life sucked out of me. Just because the law says that the baby is just a fetus and not a real person does it make it okay for you to support it? If the law told you that it's okay to steal as long as you don't get caught, would you support that? It seems like you say "if the law says it's fine, than it is" a lot, when it's okay to disagree with it once and a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 They don't "encourage" abortion. They provide abortion services to women who want to make use of them. "Encouraging" abortion would be pressuring, persuading, or forcing women to have them, which is not what they do. Encourage is the wrong terminology for this discussion. Have you ever been to Planned Parenthood? Probably not, but if you have, the first thing they do if you come to them and say you want an abortion, is have you answer a whole bunch of questions making sure that's what you really want to do, and not what you're being forced or pressured to do by anyone else. If they "encouraged" abortion, they wouldn't also provide information about adoption services and pre-natal care. Also, abortion is legal. It's not like they provide illegal services. Speaking of, they make sure you're of age to have one, and have proper consent if you're under the right age. If they didn't, they'd lose every last penny of government funding they get, though if the GOP has their way, they wouldn't get any. Which sucks, because like I said, they do a hell of a lot more than just that, and many, many, many more women would be hurt than helped by that. If there was a law that said it was okay to steal provided you didn't get caught, that means there is no law against stealing. You can't make something illegal, then say it's okay to do it as long as no one catches you. That means it was never illegal in the first place. On that note, I don't think every law in this country is just or fair. For example, I can't stand drugs and don't do them, but I also don't believe weed, LSD, ecstasy, or that stuff in magic mushrooms (I can't spell it for the life of me) should be illegal. Heroin, cocaine, crack, meth, PCP....absolutely. Those are incredibly dangerous drugs. Pot and acid? Give me a break. What's the worst that's going to happen if someone uses either of them? They write the next Dark Side of the Moon? They sit in the basement and listen to Jimi Hendrix? They're harmless compared to alcohol and tobacco, both of which are legal, which kill far more people every year than weed does. More people die from suicide than marijuana, yet weed is illegal. That makes absolutely no sense. More people die from diabetes and heart attacks than LSD, but you don't see McDonalds and Pepsi put on the banned substances list. The "war on drugs" in this country is pointless, draconian, and a complete waste of money and manpower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 No one in their right mind actually thinks the people who run PP today think black people should be exterminated like weeds. Only someone really stupid would think something like that. Nothing racist about planned parenthood toady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Face the facts: you got handed your ass last time, by someone half your age. Stick around this time - I do believe V7's about to do it again. When you've resorted to name calling a 15 year old (even if she is pretty sharp for her age) it's already happened imo. No offense to Electrophile personally but the "Jesus Freak" comment was uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypeO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Just because the person who founded Planned Parenthood had opinions that frankly, many, many people at that time held, doesn't make Planned Parenthood now a horrible, evil, dastardly organization. This may seem like a tangent, but does that logic apply to the Mormon Church? Because one of the biggest complaints directed towards Mormonism was for not allowing African-Americans to hold the priesthood before a particular time. Just curious. I faintly recall you debating that point once, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypeO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 How endearing. The very essence of tolerance. I want to see this story on the news channels. Hey, 4+ young white men bullied and berated an innocent black man. That should be a pretty big story. Except it doesn't fit the media's current agenda of emphasizing Friday's protest of CFA while simultaneously ignoring Wednesday's record turnout in SUPPORT of CFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebk Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 When you've resorted to name calling a 15 year old (even if she is pretty sharp for her age) it's already happened imo. No offense to Electrophile personally but the "Jesus Freak" comment was uncalled for. Victoria7 called herself a Jesus Freak a few pages back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Victoria7 called herself a Jesus Freak a few pages back... I wouldn't pay DAS too much attention. He admonished for me for starting the Chick Fil A discussion in another thread, claiming it was off-topic. Then, when I continued to discuss it here, I was told again that I was off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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