Gay Marriage, Freedom of Speech and Chicken Sandwiches

[DAS]

As a matter of fact, Mr Sexpert, natural lubrication doesn't always help with extremes of size. But since your experience is presumably mainly with Western women, I guess you wouldn't know that. Quite the opposite, in fact - I expect your tool of choice is more likely to be a plank of wood strapped across your ass.

[Electrophile]

Reggie, if the sole reason to have sex is to have children, are you advocating celibacy for people who can't have children or don't want to have children? I don't want kids. I'm not living like a nun for the rest of my life just because I don't want to procreate. Sex is for more than just creating a blob of cells that might grow into a baby.

Also, you can't "turn" people gay. What a bunch of bullshit. There are millions of children in this country that need to be placed in good, loving homes, and if that's one parent, two parents, two gay parents....who gives a shit? As long as the child is loved, nurtured, fed, clothed, taken care of, and above all else, protected....why should the structure of the family unit matter? All that should matter is that the child health and happiness. I know people raised by same sex parents, and not only are they not gay, they grew up in better homes than some of my friends whose parents were straight as an arrow.

Ignorance is scary. Apathy is scary. Apathy about your own ignorance is criminal.

[cryingbluerain]

What? A foxhole is used by troops to shelter against firing. There are plenty of atheists that use foxholes, nothing wrong with that.

It's a figure of speech. Google it.

[MollyHendrix]

It's a figure of speech. Google it.

It's a stupid figure of speech. I don't see how this aphorism is substantial. Are you saying that the only reason why Christians believe in God is because we are all under great stress? This is an invalid assertion!

[DAS]

The no atheists in foxholes saying simply means that atheism is ultimately impractical and undesirable even for it's own adherents.

[JTM]

I am not saying I want it now. I am looking forward to it. I don't know when it is going to happen. I have already talked to people about it, my entire class at school feels the same way and understand why. Jesus was about life, but he was talking about life with Him in heaven, not death in hell. He was talking about life on earth.

Onward christian soldiers marching off to death then eh.....What a waste.

[MollyHendrix]

Onward christian soldiers marching off to death then eh.....What a waste.

No, until we die we continue doing God's will for our lives.

[Walter]

Double post

[Walter]

Coming from your views it is completely understandable that you would say that. But I have a completely different view on life. I want to be a martyr for Christ because people that are persecuted for Jesus' name sake are blessed. You could say that I am a Jesus Freak.

Serious question here, would your wanting to be a martyr allow you to say destroy an abortion clinic (inhabited with the doctor performing the procedure) just to save future fetuses, in the name of Jesus?

[Reggie29]

Reggie, if the sole reason to have sex is to have children, are you advocating celibacy for people who can't have children or don't want to have children? I don't want kids. I'm not living like a nun for the rest of my life just because I don't want to procreate. Sex is for more than just creating a blob of cells that might grow into a baby.

Also, you can't "turn" people gay. What a bunch of bullshit. There are millions of children in this country that need to be placed in good, loving homes, and if that's one parent, two parents, two gay parents....who gives a shit? As long as the child is loved, nurtured, fed, clothed, taken care of, and above all else, protected....why should the structure of the family unit matter? All that should matter is that the child health and happiness. I know people raised by same sex parents, and not only are they not gay, they grew up in better homes than some of my friends whose parents were straight as an arrow.

Ignorance is scary. Apathy is scary. Apathy about your own ignorance is criminal.

Yes, sexual intercourse is the only natural way to impregnate females and to have children as nature intended.

Not at all, the decision to have or not to have children is another life choice as is celibacy, so is wanting to have random sex with whomever they want with whomever they want.

I know women who can't have children who would give anything to be a mother, some have adopted and some have been knocked back by government bureaucrats who wouldn't know shit from clay, because of some stupid criteria.

While I accept that some don't want children for whatever reason and respect their right of choice not to, I think it is sad that they deny themselves the joy of nurturing and watching children grow then when they are old have no-one in their lives.

Friends come and go but family is forever.

Turn it up, of course it doesn't turn people gay but there are people who actually believe that, however it does send the wrong message about having sex with same gender partners.

The structure of the family unit is very important and unfortunately there are some out there who neglect and harm children and clearly don't deserve them. There are mothers and fathers, who are deserted by their partners who then struggle to raise their kids.

Don't kid yourself in thinking that adoptions by same gender couples or singles would be the perfect solution for those children.

Pedophelia crosses over all genders and sexual persuasions and is another real possibility in any family unit.

I ask this because I have witnessed your vitriol against other people who dare to have differences of opinions with you.

Are you impying that I'm ignorant and that I don't care about child welfare?

I hope not because if you are, then, FUCK YOU!

If not, we're cool.

[cryingbluerain]

The no atheists in foxholes saying simply means that atheism is ultimately impractical and undesirable even for it's own adherents.

Right, how can someone believe in nothing? Makes no sense imo.

[MollyHendrix]

Serious question here, would your wanting to be a martyr allow you to say destroy an abortion clinic (inhabited with the doctor performing the procedure) just to save future fetuses, in the name of Jesus?

No, I wouldn't kill people to save people. And I wouldn't destroy the clinic either. While abortion is wrong it doesn't make it right to destroy.

Why do you ask that?

[Reggie29]

If we're going to bring abortion into this discussion then I'll put my two bob's worth in.

Abortion for the sake of destroying a potential life because of irresponsible people not taking some form of contraception is dead wrong.

If a woman is in danger of dying during pregnancy or childbirth (stillborn) and the only option to save her life was by abortion then so be it. In most cases the woman could possibly have another child.

Any woman who is impregnated by rape should have the right to abort the foetus but only in the very early stages of gestation.

Otherwise I'm totally against it, period.

[Electrophile]

Yes, sexual intercourse is the only natural way to impregnate females and to have children as nature intended.

Not at all, the decision to have or not to have children is another life choice as is celibacy, so is wanting to have random sex with whomever they want with whomever they want.

I know women who can't have children who would give anything to be a mother, some have adopted and some have been knocked back by government bureaucrats who wouldn't know shit from clay, because of some stupid criteria.

While I accept that some don't want children for whatever reason and respect their right of choice not to, I think it is sad that they deny themselves the joy of nurturing and watching children grow then when they are old have no-one in their lives.

Friends come and go but family is forever.

Women are good for more than becoming brood mares for the state. There's nothing wrong or sad about the choice not to have children, just like there's nothing wrong or sad with the choice TO have children. It's just not for me. Some women shouldn't have children and do anyway, and those kids suffer. Better those women realize that about themselves before they get knocked up, rather than after. I don't think I'd be a bad mother, or a neglectful mother, or an abusive mother.....I just don't want them. I have nothing against other people's kids, and enjoy helping my friends and cousins with theirs, but that's it.

Turn it up, of course it doesn't turn people gay but there are people who actually believe that, however it does send the wrong message about having sex with same gender partners.

There's nothing wrong with having sex with someone of the same gender, if that's what you're into. I'm not, but other people are. Who am I to judge them or say that what they do is "wrong", "unnatural", "gross"? I think eating cottage cheese is disgusting, because it looks like something women go to their gynecologist for, but I have nothing against people who like it. I just don't eat it myself, and get on with living. Which is the same thing everyone else should do, but many don't. Don't like gay sex? Don't have it! Think two women making out is gross? Don't make out with a woman if you're a woman!

The structure of the family unit is very important and unfortunately there are some out there who neglect and harm children and clearly don't deserve them. There are mothers and fathers, who are deserted by their partners who then struggle to raise their kids. Don't kid yourself in thinking that adoptions by same gender couples or singles would be the perfect solution for those children.

Of course people who harm or neglect children should not raise them. I never said otherwise. However, if you honestly and truly believe being left to rot in foster care is better than being adopted by a gay couple or a single parent, that's beyond sad. The child's welfare should come first, and if the best home for that child is Tim and Doug, or Sandra the single mom, the kid should go with the best home. Background checks and welfare checks are standard no matter what, and if Tim and Doug or Sandra the single mom pass all the checks, and there's nothing criminal or illegal about the home that child would be put in, give them the kid.

Pedophelia crosses over all genders and sexual persuasions and is another real possibility in any family unit.

Children are more likely to be molested by someone close to the family, not a relative. Also pedophilia and homosexuality are in no way equivalent. Jerry Sandusky is a pedophile, not gay. The fact he molested boys doesn't mean anything. Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children, the gender of those children is irrelevant. There are pedophiles who molest boys and girls...does that mean they're bisexual? No. It means they're a degenerate who should be castrated, then executed.....but I'm not in charge of doling out punishments for sexual predators.

I ask this because I have witnessed your vitriol against other people who dare to have differences of opinions with you.

Are you impying that I'm ignorant and that I don't care about child welfare?

I hope not because if you are, then, FUCK YOU!

If not, we're cool.

I don't think you don't care about child welfare. I think you buy in too heavily to the notion that the only good home is mommy and daddy, but I wouldn't call that ignorant. Some of the things I've seen people say here are just the most ludicrous piles of tosh I've ever heard, and that's not even discussing the opinions that are tied to religion. It just blows my mind how utterly sad some of this shit is.

[docron]

Tommy and Joe, you're getting out of line. Please stop it.

[according to whom exactly is this out of line]?

[the only good thing about the bible is that it found a fantastical way to teach people some general common sense].

[in addition, 'gay' is now and always has been an adjective]. [that is not my fault].

[Electrophile]

If we're going to bring abortion into this discussion then I'll put my two bob's worth in.

Abortion for the sake of destroying a potential life because of irresponsible people not taking some form of contraception is dead wrong.

If a woman is in danger of dying during pregnancy or childbirth (stillborn) and the only option to save her life was by abortion then so be it. In most cases the woman could possibly have another child.

Any woman who is impregnated by rape should have the right to abort the foetus but only in the very early stages of gestation.

Otherwise I'm totally against it, period.

....and what if the birth control fails? That woman or both her and her partner took steps to prevent pregnancy, but it happened anyway. Now what? Should she be shackled to a pregnancy she clearly didn't want? Again, this ties into my question I asked you before, about advocating celibacy if you can't or don't want to have children. If you don't want children, but you still choose to be sexually active, you use birth control. If the birth control fails, which can happen, what remedy does that woman have?

I went with a friend when she had an abortion in college. She was on the Pill, took it every day at the same time like clockwork, but antibiotics she took screwed with the Pill, and it failed. She worked two jobs along with going to school full-time, lived four states away from her family, and her boyfriend wasn't any better off than her, financially. She couldn't keep the child, and she couldn't stay pregnant, because she couldn't afford to do that either. Her only option, short of throwing herself down a flight of stairs, was to have an abortion. Do you think that was an easy decision for her to make? Contrary to what you may have been told or been led to believe, 99% of women who choose to have an abortion are not the women to have 6 or 7 of them because they're too cheap to use a condom. They agonize over the decision because they know the stigma attached to it, but they make it because it's ulitmately the best choice for them.

I don't want to live in a country where women do not have the option to end a pregnancy if they want to. Abortion should not be the first choice, but it should be A choice. People who support a woman's right to choose, like myself, are not pro-abortion. We're pro-choice. Choice is the key word. If a woman doesn't want an abortion, that's fine. She can keep it or give it up for adoption. If a woman does want an abortion, it should be available to her. That's all people like me want. Choice. Not forced abortions for all, not mandatory abortions for all, the choice. Pure and simple. If you don't agree with abortion, that's fine. You're allowed to. Counsel pregnant women you know not to have one. Don't deny other women the choice, simply because you don't like it. Your likes and dislikes should not be codified into law.

[Electrophile]

Back to the topic of gay marriage for a moment.....

Top Ten Reasons to Make Gay Marriage Illegal

01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all like many of the principles on which this great country was founded; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of marriages like Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

Food for thought.

[Reggie29]

....and what if the birth control fails? That woman or both her and her partner took steps to prevent pregnancy, but it happened anyway. Now what? Should she be shackled to a pregnancy she clearly didn't want? Again, this ties into my question I asked you before, about advocating celibacy if you can't or don't want to have children. If you don't want children, but you still choose to be sexually active, you use birth control. If the birth control fails, which can happen, what remedy does that woman have?

I went with a friend when she had an abortion in college. She was on the Pill, took it every day at the same time like clockwork, but antibiotics she took screwed with the Pill, and it failed. She worked two jobs along with going to school full-time, lived four states away from her family, and her boyfriend wasn't any better off than her, financially. She couldn't keep the child, and she couldn't stay pregnant, because she couldn't afford to do that either. Her only option, short of throwing herself down a flight of stairs, was to have an abortion. Do you think that was an easy decision for her to make? Contrary to what you may have been told or been led to believe, 99% of women who choose to have an abortion are not the women to have 6 or 7 of them because they're too cheap to use a condom. They agonize over the decision because they know the stigma attached to it, but they make it because it's ulitmately the best choice for them.

Fair point.

Those are extenuating circmstances but it seems it's too easy to have them done through the health system and of course unqualified people too.

I do my research and have learnt and know the facts or at least those available. I have never been led to believe anything without checking facts first.There are dangers with the procedure regardless of whether it's done at reputable clinics or by backdoor butchers and that is they can lose the ability to enjoy sex and / or have more children or worse their life.

I don't want to live in a country where women do not have the option to end a pregnancy if they want to. Abortion should not be the first choice, but it should be A choice. People who support a woman's right to choose, like myself, are not pro-abortion. We're pro-choice. Choice is the key word. If a woman doesn't want an abortion, that's fine. She can keep it or give it up for adoption. If a woman does want an abortion, it should be available to her. That's all people like me want. Choice. Not forced abortions for all, not mandatory abortions for all, the choice. Pure and simple. If you don't agree with abortion, that's fine. You're allowed to. Counsel pregnant women you know not to have one. Don't deny other women the choice, simply because you don't like it. Your likes and dislikes should not be codified into law.

Nor should yours.

[Walter]

No, I wouldn't kill people to save people. And I wouldn't destroy the clinic either. While abortion is wrong it doesn't make it right to destroy.

Why do you ask that?

When someone speaks of martyrdom, I wonder to what lengths they would go to. I respect your conviction and faith in Christianity, btw. I'm not attempting to mock you, just understand you better. Thank you for answering my question.

[Electrophile]

I don't want to live in a country where women do not have the option to end a pregnancy if they want to. Abortion should not be the first choice, but it should be A choice. People who support a woman's right to choose, like myself, are not pro-abortion. We're pro-choice. Choice is the key word. If a woman doesn't want an abortion, that's fine. She can keep it or give it up for adoption. If a woman does want an abortion, it should be available to her. That's all people like me want. Choice. Not forced abortions for all, not mandatory abortions for all, the choice. Pure and simple. If you don't agree with abortion, that's fine. You're allowed to. Counsel pregnant women you know not to have one. Don't deny other women the choice, simply because you don't like it. Your likes and dislikes should not be codified into law.

Nor should yours.

I don't like abortion, but I understand that for some women, it's the best choice for them, and I want them to be able to make that choice. That's the difference between me and people who are against it. They think because they don't like it, it should be illegal, and women who have one should be branded as murderers. I don't like it, but I also understand that what I personally like or dislike has fuck-all to do with legality, and that giving women choices is better than taking them away. Like I said, being pro-choice doesn't mean loving abortions or being rah-rah about them. It means supporting the right to choose, the right to give women an option.

[jimmie ray]

[according to whom exactly is this out of line]?

[the only good thing about the bible is that it found a fantastical way to teach people some general common sense].

[in addition, 'gay' is now and always has been an adjective]. [that is not my fault].

I was referring to both of you using the word "retarded" to mock people or ideals that you disagree with. It shows no compassion for those who have to face obstacles that you could never comprehend, every day of their lives. My wife has Cerebral Palsy, BTW.

[docron]

I was referring to both of you using the word "retarded" to mock people or ideals that you disagree with. It shows no compassion for those who have to face obstacles that you could never comprehend, every day of their lives. My wife has Cerebral Palsy, BTW.

[well it is retarded but that is my opinion]. [i didn't direct it toward you and i certainly dont know how this has anything to do with your wife]

[as an unrelated aside, sorry to hear about your wife that's a plain shame].

[MollyHendrix]

When someone speaks of martyrdom, I wonder to what lengths they would go to. I respect your conviction and faith in Christianity, btw. I'm not attempting to mock you, just understand you better. Thank you for answering my question.

No problem. I just want to have a "Glorious" death. You know how we read about Roman generals and other influential people having glorious deaths, I want that but just for a different cause.

[MollyHendrix]

....and what if the birth control fails? That woman or both her and her partner took steps to prevent pregnancy, but it happened anyway. Now what? Should she be shackled to a pregnancy she clearly didn't want? Again, this ties into my question I asked you before, about advocating celibacy if you can't or don't want to have children. If you don't want children, but you still choose to be sexually active, you use birth control. If the birth control fails, which can happen, what remedy does that woman have?

I went with a friend when she had an abortion in college. She was on the Pill, took it every day at the same time like clockwork, but antibiotics she took screwed with the Pill, and it failed. She worked two jobs along with going to school full-time, lived four states away from her family, and her boyfriend wasn't any better off than her, financially. She couldn't keep the child, and she couldn't stay pregnant, because she couldn't afford to do that either. Her only option, short of throwing herself down a flight of stairs, was to have an abortion. Do you think that was an easy decision for her to make? Contrary to what you may have been told or been led to believe, 99% of women who choose to have an abortion are not the women to have 6 or 7 of them because they're too cheap to use a condom. They agonize over the decision because they know the stigma attached to it, but they make it because it's ulitmately the best choice for them.

Fair point.

Those are extenuating circmstances but it seems it's too easy to have them done through the health system and of course unqualified people too.

I do my research and have learnt and know the facts or at least those available. I have never been led to believe anything without checking facts first.There are dangers with the procedure regardless of whether it's done at reputable clinics or by backdoor butchers and that is they can lose the ability to enjoy sex and / or have more children or worse their life.

I don't want to live in a country where women do not have the option to end a pregnancy if they want to. Abortion should not be the first choice, but it should be A choice. People who support a woman's right to choose, like myself, are not pro-abortion. We're pro-choice. Choice is the key word. If a woman doesn't want an abortion, that's fine. She can keep it or give it up for adoption. If a woman does want an abortion, it should be available to her. That's all people like me want. Choice. Not forced abortions for all, not mandatory abortions for all, the choice. Pure and simple. If you don't agree with abortion, that's fine. You're allowed to. Counsel pregnant women you know not to have one. Don't deny other women the choice, simply because you don't like it. Your likes and dislikes should not be codified into law.

Nor should yours.

But do you understand what is done to the baby? Some people call it a fetus but it can still feel pain 10 days or less after conception. There are many kinds of abortion and all of them are anything but painless. There are some where they inject concentrated salt into the uterus and leave the fetus in there to die with burnt skin. Some have survived through that and are affected to this day.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/index.htm

[MollyHendrix]

Women are good for more than becoming brood mares for the state. There's nothing wrong or sad about the choice not to have children, just like there's nothing wrong or sad with the choice TO have children. It's just not for me. Some women shouldn't have children and do anyway, and those kids suffer. Better those women realize that about themselves before they get knocked up, rather than after. I don't think I'd be a bad mother, or a neglectful mother, or an abusive mother.....I just don't want them. I have nothing against other people's kids, and enjoy helping my friends and cousins with theirs, but that's it.

I'm very curious, you say that "all of these practices are okay for other people but it is just not for me". Does it apply to everything for you? Are you okay if somebody has a religion that demands everyone to convert to their religion and if they don't they will be killed?