joe (Liverpool) Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I wonder how many more will be discovered, in all sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Part of the trouble too, though, is that the science in doping is advancing so quickly that governing bodies are almost always playing catch up. Armstrong never failed a drug test. Think about that. So if it weren't for the code of secrecy around him crumbling, he'd still be GOAT cycling hero. I'm glad he got caught. It's a long fall. Yep, for him, it will be a long fall but what upsets me even more is the effect it'll have on the Livestrong Foundation. I suppose people will find other ways to donate to Cancer research etc but,up until recently, he was a very strong symbol and spokesperson for the program. There's no question that people identified with it. I agree , the methods of cheating are far out distancing the methods of testing. Too many hangers on, making money, BIG MONEY, on the successes of these athletes. As they say, "follow the money trail" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 For every one of these athletes that get caught there are probably ten times over that did not get caught. I wonder who else in baseball cheated? Of course it could not go back too long because these things were not available way back in the 70's for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think all sports have to snap a line... "Ok 60 days from now. you're all going to be screened." no excuses if you fail.. end of story.. Digging through sins of the past seems kind of pointless.. it's done. Worry about keeping it honest Now, not undoing the wrongs from before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/magazine/03/11/steroid.timeline/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 http://sportsillustr...line/index.html Very interesting Anjin-san. It appears in 83 it was the first time there was a positive test resutt? I do not read that the 76 women were busted? So can I assume the 1980's were the first time someone was actually busted? Hitler usinn steroids. That is interesting he would do this. Not that he wasn't crazy, but he had to be pretty damn smart to fool so many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 For every one of these athletes that get caught there are probably ten times over that did not get caught. I wonder who else in baseball cheated? Of course it could not go back too long because these things were not available way back in the 70's for example. They were available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE12 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/magazine/03/11/steroid.timeline/index.html Anjin-san, that was depressing but thanks for posting... One of my favorite TdF photos is one from way back with the competitors puffing on a cig in between stages. From another perspective, a friend sent this to me today. I've never posted let alone read anything from Fox News but I thought this was interesting. If you've read his books, you'd know how palpable his anger toward his father is-(understandably so.) http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/23/will-lance-armstrong-ever-fess-up-and-face-truth/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrycja Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 http://sportsillustr...line/index.html I'll never forget how absolutely elated I was when Johnson won. And then when he got caught for using, I was so disappointed, kind of ashamed even. For fans, particularly when there's a nation behind an athlete, it is palpable when they find out the guy they cheered for wholeheartedly gets stripped of a medal for such a reason. I guess that's part of the pressure for athletes, too. Not an excuse, though... Yep, for him, it will be a long fall but what upsets me even more is the effect it'll have on the Livestrong Foundation. I suppose people will find other ways to donate to Cancer research etc but,up until recently, he was a very strong symbol and spokesperson for the program. There's no question that people identified with it. I agree , the methods of cheating are far out distancing the methods of testing. Too many hangers on, making money, BIG MONEY, on the successes of these athletes. As they say, "follow the money trail" . Did you hear about that big name donor to Livestrong who now wants his money back?! I think people are clear that the money went for a good cause, but when there's such a strong backlash, unfortrunately innocent people suffer. It also just bugs me that he hasn't come forward and shown some honesty and contrition. I mean, there's a 1,000 page report documenting his usage. Either this is the biggest witchhunt in recent sports memory, or the guy has lost all perspective in thinking he can still fool people. Oh, and given that Armstrong has been told to give back his winnings from all the Tours (plus insurance bonuses, plus losses from being dropped by sponsors), that money trail is coming to a full stop quick. p.s. ^ Interesting article, fdm12. Thanks for posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Notch Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Lance is just the tip of the iceberg in this sport I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I'll never forget how absolutely elated I was when Johnson won. And then when he got caught for using, I was so disappointed, kind of ashamed even. For fans, particularly when there's a nation behind an athlete, it is palpable when they find out the guy they cheered for wholeheartedly gets stripped of a medal for such a reason. I guess that's part of the pressure for athletes, too. Not an excuse, though... Did you hear about that big name donor to Livestrong who now wants his money back?! I think people are clear that the money went for a good cause, but when there's such a strong backlash, unfortrunately innocent people suffer. It also just bugs me that he hasn't come forward and shown some honesty and contrition. I mean, there's a 1,000 page report documenting his usage. Either this is the biggest witchhunt in recent sports memory, or the guy has lost all perspective in thinking he can still fool people. Oh, and given that Armstrong has been told to give back his winnings from all the Tours (plus insurance bonuses, plus losses from being dropped by sponsors), that money trail is coming to a full stop quick. p.s. ^ Interesting article, fdm12. Thanks for posting The sad thing Pat is that competition and sponsorship earnings are just the tip of the iceberg when following the money trail. So many of these athletes are being encouraged to use long before they make it to the top of their sport. Not everyone does but the stuff is readily available to any young athlete who want's it and it has been for years. The difference between days past and more recent times is that instead of the bottom feeding individual dealers of the 70's, you now have a well orchestrated multi million dollar buisness. When I look back on the Ben Johnson case, I don't just blame him or the trainers and doctors who supplied him. I think the Canadian Olympic Committee of the day turned a blind eye because Johnson was going to be their winning ticket to a substantial increase in their funding. I don't believe that they didn't know something was up and to think that not one of them had the fortitude to question the huge gains in Johnson body mass in such a short period of time and how suddenly he could compete and beat Carl Lewis, just shows how greedy they really were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The article certainly resonates with me. I'm hoping Lance has already come to realize past is past and external validation in the form of cycling medals is no longer meaningful in his life, if it ever was at all. Don't think for a moment there isn't an anti-American bias present in how this is being handled. Agree with the first part of your statement Steve but honestly, I can't see an anti - American bias in the way it's being handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE12 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Steve, I'm glad you liked the article, I found it moving. If Lance took his advice it would be more inspiring than any of his wins. But I'm with Ally, why do you think the handling is anti-American? His team manager Bruyneel is Belgian; his doctor, Ferrari is Italian. The UCI which allegedly took part in protecting Lance is an international body (McQuaid's recent comments were completely disingenuous). It's the US Anti-Doping Agency that went after him along with several US teammates who were tired of living a lie (especially Landis and Hamilton.) Numerous European teams have been ejected (Festina in 1998; Astana in 2007) from the race and numerous players ejected/fined/banned (list is very long). I know Lance is not a favorite of the Frenchies but I understand both viewpoints. Lance is the brash American who likes to get under peoples' skin and he's the type of American the French love to hate. But he didn't hesitate to take down other people (and I don't mean athletically) in his pursuit of winning/covering up. As I've said his treatment of LeMond was particularly repugnant. Anyway, interested in what makes you think it's about nationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 >When I look back on the Ben Johnson case, I don't just blame him or the trainers and doctors who supplied him. I think the Canadian Olympic Committee of the day turned a blind eye because Johnson was going to be their winning ticket to a substantial increase in their funding. I don't believe that they didn't know something was up and to think that not one of them had the fortitude to question the huge gains in Johnson body mass in such a short period of time and how suddenly he could compete and beat Carl Lewis, just shows how greedy they really were.< Like I said before, the USOC,hid/covered up Lewis positive tests.The supposed 'cheaters' were also ahead of the testing,...because LA passed well over 500 tests(!) Sports is just entertainment,nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 >When I look back on the Ben Johnson case, I don't just blame him or the trainers and doctors who supplied him. I think the Canadian Olympic Committee of the day turned a blind eye because Johnson was going to be their winning ticket to a substantial increase in their funding. I don't believe that they didn't know something was up and to think that not one of them had the fortitude to question the huge gains in Johnson body mass in such a short period of time and how suddenly he could compete and beat Carl Lewis, just shows how greedy they really were.< Like I said before, the USOC,hid/covered up Lewis positive tests.The supposed 'cheaters' were also ahead of the testing,...because LA passed well over 500 tests(!) Sports is just entertainment,nothing more. Once in a while, we get the odd sampling of justice yet we know or at least suspect that so many athletes are still way ahead of the cheating curve. You're right though KB, it is just entertainment and when I think about it, maybe sports fans in general are guilty of an unrealistic performance expectation. It does piss me off that the cheating athletes are taking the average fans hard earned money but, I suppose I could choose to stop following sport altogether. However, because I love sport, something tells me that decision would be a lose/lose for me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 > It does piss me off that the cheating athletes are taking the average fans hard earned money< How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 > It does piss me off that the cheating athletes are taking the average fans hard earned money< How? People pay to watch, buy product they endorse . In some countries, amature sport is funded by the taxpayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 People pay to watch, buy product they endorse . In some countries, amature sport is funded by the taxpayer. That is a problem.They expect everything to be on the up-n-up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 That is a problem.They expect everything to be on the up-n-up? Fools that we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Fools that we are No Bro,... It's called blind faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 No Bro,... It's called blind faith. Or in the words of Yoda, " Faith , blind it is " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 And fools rush in,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bitnogoodjive Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well, now that he is scheduled to confess on the Oprah show, any ideas as to why he would come forward now and open himself up to possible legal liability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well, now that he is scheduled to confess on the Oprah show, any ideas as to why he would come forward now and open himself up to possible legal liability? My understanding is that a (sealed in federal court) lawsuit had been filed awhile back. But... the last day that the US Postal Service could join the suit would be Thursday, the day the interview is due to air. Sooo, fine line that it is, it may be enough for him to skate on that. I feel for the fans, of course, but I really feel for the athletes who work so hard to do the best they can within the rules, and lose. Perhaps there is some sense of vindication when the truth comes out years later, but it must still be a bitter pill to swallow... so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Anyone named Lance has to be a loser. :^( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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