Australia vs. United States: Anger rises over Chris Lane murder

[mstork]

Then why bring up Al Sharpton in this thread? Or do you object in principal to community leaders who focus all of their energy on their specific community?

By your definition it appears our President is a community leader, he has lots to say about certain tragedies, nothing about others.

[Sagittarius Rising]

By your definition it appears our President is a community leader, he has lots to say about certain tragedies, nothing about others.

What exactly would you like him to say? This guy was not targeted because he was a white Aussie, he was targeted because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This shit happens every day unfortunately and these three will spend their whole lives in jail as a result. So please, tell me exactly what the president should say. Should he comment on every crime? Only crime which involve minorities & whites?

[Sagittarius Rising]

A simple criminal matter.

Wow.

You're right. Something here makes no sense whatsoever. ;-)

There's just one more thing, SR...

Since you seem to be able to identify simple criminal matters, let me draw your attention to the incident up here in Cambridge, Ma a few summers ago. A 911 call was received from a passerby who saw what they believed to be a B&E...when the police responded and asked for the mans ID....well, you know the rest of THAT story. The horror!!!!!

But remember what President Barack Obama said while the case was still under investigation? Hmmm?

and, p.s. that question the president was asked at that press conference was all staged.

Wake up.

Let's stick to the subject at had shall we.

Please explain your rebuttal in detail, do you not think this is a simple criminal matter? Why not? What differentiates this crime from other crimes of violence? Do you believe the two blacks and one white scumbags targeted a white Aussie on purpose, if so what is your evidence to support such a claim?

[DropDown]

Where's Al charletain Sharpton?Oh, wait, I mean the REVEREND Al Sharpton?Anybody heard from President Barack Obama?Hmmmmmmmmm?Mr President, I suppose you think the Duncan Police acted as the Cambridge Police acted?STUPIDLY.What a disgrace.My heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of this young man. May he rest in peace.I have a son the same age as Chris Lane. God help anyone.

Very well put. My thoughts exactly. Still waiting to hear from Jesse Jackson and Jamie Foxx as well.

[Disco Duck]

Just another blow-hard politician whose focus isn't on bringing criminals to justice, rather to blame the NRA and seek to disarm millions of legal, law-abiding citizens. ...

If anything, this: "The senseless killing of Chris Lane is unacceptable to free society here and abroad. To the citizens of the State of Oklahoma, I pledge the full support of the United States federal government to prosecute the perpetrators to the fullest extent of the law".

Tim Fisher is Australian. It's not his responsibility to handle America's crime problem. That's on us. He has every right to speak out as he did. Also, Chris Lane's death, though horrible, isn't a federal crime. The local police will handle the investigation and the local D.A.'s office will handle the trial. Both agencies appear to be on top of things so there is no need for the White House to get involved.

Let's get real. Senseless murders happen all the time in the U.S. It's the American way. Last fall a NFL football player killed the mother of his infant daughter before turning the gun on himself. Just this afternoon, the police in my city discovered the bodies of a young woman and her three year old child. The only reason Chris Lane's murder stands out is that he was a guest in our country and the Australian government is raising a fuss. Nothing wrong with their doing so; one of their citizens was murdered for no good reason while visiting the U.S.

[pottedplant]

I saw this morning that this will not be prosecuted as a "hate crime." Explain this to me, please.

[Reggie29]

For the record, Tim Fischer is a retired career soldier, turned politician and was once DEPUTY Prime Minister to John Howard.

He was an ambassador and his final post was the Ambassador to the Holy See in Rome and he would've been one of the first to offer his condolences and support to the victim's family.

He has a lot of credibility within the international diplomatic community.

Typical paranoic twaddle from the usual suspect to suggest that someone who dared criticise the NRA would read it as, "advocating the disarmament of law-abiding gun owners in America."

The issue is how do these animals get the guns and what is being done about the disarmament of law-breaking nut jobs?

Regrettably there is no shortage of them anywhere in the world, even here in Oz, yet sadly the majority of them (as reported in the US media), reside in the USA.

This thread should not be hijacked by political agendas or stupid gun debates, so I shan't be commenting on guns any further as no correspondence shall be entered into regarding them.

This is about the senseless killing of a young person who could've come from anywhere in the world and been anyone on here's son, brother, cousin or friend.

My sympathy and condolences to the Lanes as they prepare for the funeral.

[Anjin-san]

http://www.gofundme.com/3zktjc

[planted]

Let's stick to the subject at had shall we.

Please explain your rebuttal in detail, do you not think this is a simple criminal matter? Why not? What differentiates this crime from other crimes of violence? Do you believe the two blacks and one white scumbags targeted a white Aussie on purpose, if so what is your evidence to support such a claim?

A simple criminal matter would be, uh, oh, I don't know, maybe a 911 call to the Cambridge Police from a concerned citizen that a black man was seen shouldering a door to a home and the caller didnt recognize this man?

But that simple 911 call and the actions of the police following protocol MADE IT ALL THE WAY TO THE WHITE HOUSE?

And we all know why, don't we boys and girls.

[planted]

Last I heard was that his U.S. girlfriend and her familty were escorting the casket back to Australia. Condolences to both familes and a slow torture for the criminals!

Heartbreaking.

I can't imagine what these people must be going through. So much promise lost in this young, talented, educated, motivated man. His parents should be very proud of him.

[planted]

A simple criminal matter would be, uh, oh, I don't know, maybe a 911 call to the Cambridge Police from a concerned citizen that a black man was seen shouldering a door to a home and the caller didnt recognize this man?

But that simple 911 call and the actions of the police following protocol MADE IT ALL THE WAY TO THE WHITE HOUSE?

And we all know why, don't we boys and girls.

Btw...the title of this thread is: "Australia vs. United States: Anger rises over Chris Lane murder"

I believe the discussions thus far have been on point. Including condolences and the reaction (or non reaction, as it were) from the leaders of these 2 countries.

[pottedplant]

I want protection, and I want it now!!!!

[Sagittarius Rising]

A simple criminal matter would be, uh, oh, I don't know, maybe a 911 call to the Cambridge Police from a concerned citizen that a black man was seen shouldering a door to a home and the caller didnt recognize this man?

But that simple 911 call and the actions of the police following protocol MADE IT ALL THE WAY TO THE WHITE HOUSE?

And we all know why, don't we boys and girls.

Oh, NOW Travon was "shouldering a door," wonder when that happened except in your mind as that was never reported ANYWHERE! Should the President have commented on this? Hell no! It was not his call to do so yet he did and for that we can agree, just like Nixon should have never commented on the Manson Trial in 1970.

Further, if the local authorities had arrested George Zimmerman at the scene and charged him we would not be discussing this right now. The locals completely screwed this case up yet the Fed did not get involved outside of the Presidents comments. Do I feel Obama did this for an agenda? Of course, and that agenda was his understanding of blatant racism in the US, nothing more.

Regarding the whole "no straight, white victim will ever be considered a hate crime" is just a stupid comment on many levels. The white race has pretty much ruled and subjugated the world for the past 2,000 years (except for that period from about the 7th century until the 16th century when it was a toss up) so we can't exactly be called a repressed minority.

All that aside this case has been handled exactly as it should by the local authorities. These three cretins will live the rest of their lives in jail, what more do you want? What more can be done?

[pottedplant]

Per the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) a hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Having said that, hell will freeze over before you ever see the murder of any straight white person classified a hate crime because hate crime status is a civil rights protection essentially afforded only to minorities and protected classes.

Steve, this is partly right. All races, genders, ethnicities, etc. are included in this statute; otherwise, the statute on its face, would be in violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. The other portion you mentioned is political and can be won by the "unprotected classes" if someone has a good enough case and the courage to bring it up and win it.

I doubt the family of the slain young man would want to go through the American legal system; I work in it everyday and I would not want to go through it as a plaintiff, or defendant, for sure.

[Anjin-san]

Oh, NOW Travon was "shouldering a door," wonder when that happened except in your mind as that was never reported ANYWHERE!

That was Professor Gates,who was arrested by the Cambridge,MA. police for a suspected B&E.He refused to handover an ID,....went to the pokey.

The Cambridge police acted stupidly. - Obama

Beer summit!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html?_r=0

[Strider]

Just another blow-hard politician whose focus isn't on bringing criminals to justice, rather to blame the NRA and seek to disarm millions of legal, law-abiding citizens.

That isn't what he said and you know it. You don't have to be a tree-hugging liberal to know the NRA is out-of-whack and just a little paranoid.

I am on the side of law-and-order and when I hear the police complain about the NRA, that makes me think twice about that organization. As I have said many times, support for the 2nd Ammendment and support for the NRA doesn't always go hand-in-hand.

But, back to my point in my OP...getting rid of guns isn't going to solve anything unless you also get rid of the idiots who misuse guns and the idiots who breed them.

Am I the only one who is tired of how ugly the United States has become? I don't mean physically ugly; as I discovered on my cross-country trip this is still a breathtakingly beautiful country, geographically-speaking.

No, I am talking about the ever increasing packs of white-trash and wannabe gangbangers. People walking around with their pants falling off their ass, jailhouse tattoos, cursing up a storm everywhere they go, who think violence is the answer to everything and cannot seem to go anywhere without leaving a mark of some kind...whether it's pissing on a wall or a graffiti tag. I swear I now see whole families, three generations worth, running around dressed and tatted up like wannabe Tupacs...granddad, dad and child all decked out like gangsta billboards. And the women done up like gangsta ho's. Not jus black, but plenty of whites and browns, too. The only ones who seem to be immune for the most part are the Asians...so far, at least.

It's time decent, law-abiding Americans put their foot down and say, "enough is enough!"

Look at any of the recent stories that make the news, that turn your stomach on the "News that makes you say WTF" thread, and you'll find a common thread that runs thru most of them is that too many people who are unfit mentally and financially are having and raising these violent predators. I say it's time we institute a policy of no children unless you make a certain amount a year...say around $25,000-30,000 a year. No more children on the dole.

There should also be a parenting test...a parenting license, if you will. You need a license to drive a car or practice medicine...having and raising a child is just as important and shouldn't be taken so lightly. Not everyone deserves to have a child. It should be considered a privilege not a right. There should be a minimum intelligence standard before someone can have a child.

I realize this will raise howls of anger and cries of civil rights, blah-blah-blah. Phooey. This country is going to hell and it's time we stem the tide of the "Thug Generation".

[Strider]

^^^

And how do you propose to enforce "personal responsibility"? If we could rely on personal responsibility, you wouldn't have these poor single moms having 7 kids in the first place.

[pottedplant]

My heart says yes, my head says no. However, for a small fee, I would draw up a petition that includes the parents of the sociopathic "thugs" and have appropriate charges brought against them as well. There was a very sad story today about an 89 year old WWII vet who was savagely beaten to death by a 16 year old. This was in Spokane, WA. A young man was interviewed and said: "This kind of thing has run rampant here in Spokane, we just have to stop it."

The U.S. has a terrible reputation world wide, at least in civilized countries, of being the most violent of any of the civilized nations.

We were once considered "the shining City on a Hill" with equal justice for all and opportunity for all. That is long gone.

Or we could go the way of the early progressives in this country, and sterilize all those who are "unfit." I think they did that in Nazi Germany as well. Anyway, there is a very interesting Supreme Court opinion that addresses the "unfit" written by Justice

Oliver Wendell Holmes, he was a "progressive" like some in Congress like to call themselves today.

God have mercy on us all.

[planted]

That was Professor Gates,who was arrested by the Cambridge,MA. police for a suspected B&E.He refused to handover an ID,....went to the pokey.

Beer summit!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html?_r=0

Thanks, KB.

:-)

[planted]

Oh, NOW Travon was "shouldering a door," wonder when that happened except in your mind as that was never reported ANYWHERE! Should the President have commented on this? Hell no! It was not his call to do so yet he did and for that we can agree, just like Nixon should have never commented on the Manson Trial in 1970.

Further, if the local authorities had arrested George Zimmerman at the scene and charged him we would not be discussing this right now. The locals completely screwed this case up yet the Fed did not get involved outside of the Presidents comments. Do I feel Obama did this for an agenda? Of course, and that agenda was his understanding of blatant racism in the US, nothing more.

Regarding the whole "no straight, white victim will ever be considered a hate crime" is just a stupid comment on many levels. The white race has pretty much ruled and subjugated the world for the past 2,000 years (except for that period from about the 7th century until the 16th century when it was a toss up) so we can't exactly be called a repressed minority.

All that aside this case has been handled exactly as it should by the local authorities. These three cretins will live the rest of their lives in jail, what more do you want? What more can be done?

SR, ya know what, nevermind. Thanks for the discussion, though.

Good grief.

[planted]

It's time decent, law-abiding Americans put their foot down and say, "enough is enough!"

We do, Strider. Some have children and work damned hard at raising productive adults.

Gee, wouldn't it be nice if the President would speak on these matters? Here's a guy raised by a hippie mother who backpacked around god knows where, and had very few advantages in life. Yet, went to Harvard and is now in the White House. Overcame many obstacles, right?

But no, we wouldn't want to be a community organizer....

[planted]

The shouldering she referred to pertains to a different case that has also been brought up within this thread.

My observation of "hate crime" is spot on and you know it, though you'll never bring yourself to admit it.

Thanks, Steve.

Short memories around here.

[pottedplant]

Thanks Planted. I love your avi, btw. I also believe that the President, and the First Lady, could have really done some good if they had both spoken on these matters. Especially the First Lady...with the young girls.

[Anjin-san]

Thanks, KB.

:-)

[planted]

^^^

And how do you propose to enforce "personal responsibility"? If we could rely on personal responsibility, you wouldn't have these poor single moms having 7 kids in the first place.

We live in a society (ie, the US) where everybody wins! Oh, c'mon, having 7 kids isn't baaaaad.

It's the teachers fault, it's the cops fault, it's the weathers fault, and it is DEFINTELY the parents fault. But it's never the fault of the individual.

Oh yeah, every day is a fuck'n party.

The shooter in this case is 15 years old. Think about that.

15.