Walter Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Btw, if anybody doesn't think Monsanto and other ultra wealthy lobbyist groups/companies don't write the bills that their bought politicians present to begin the process of making it into law at the HOR, aren't paying attention. It's a well known fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I didn't infer anything from your post - I was agreeing with it. If you go back and re read from the top of page 2 to where I responded to your post, you understand what I'm talking about. Whoops, sorry about that Walter...my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Back on topic. $15 an hour x 8 hour day x 5 days a week x 52 weeks per year = $31,200 annual salary. That is enough to live on, for a single person, depending on how frugal they are. Of course, they cannot afford a home or raise kids properly. A couple doing the same, or with a second job, maybe. I started at $30,000 annual salary, a little over 4 years ago, as a Heat and Power Plant assistant. I'm making close to double that now, due to my background, promotions, and overtime, when offered. But I had to accept crazy shifts, work with over 10,000 volt equipment, and cook in mechanical rooms that regularly exceed 120* F. Guys who have to work at high pressure, high temperature steam plants - which is in my job description but we don't have that at our facility, are exposed daily to the chance of being instantly burned alive, or left disfigured with no nose, ears, fingers, etc... The notion that a fast food or many other non-skilled worker is some sort of serf who has to endure so much oppression is ridiculous, to someone like me. As some here have correctly said, these type of jobs should not be careers - especially if the worker has intensions of owning a home or raising a family. If some of you make a living or volunteer in education or mentoring fields, and can only blame the rich for all the worlds problems, I can see where it's rubbing off on younger or underprivileged people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooma Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Back on topic. $15 an hour x 8 hour day x 5 days a week x 52 weeks per year = $31,200 annual salary. That is enough to live on, for a single person, depending on how frugal they are. Of course, they cannot afford a home or raise kids properly. A couple doing the same, or with a second job, maybe. I started at $30,000 annual salary, a little over 4 years ago, as a Heat and Power Plant assistant. I'm making close to double that now, due to my background, promotions, and overtime, when offered. But I had to accept crazy shifts, work with over 10,000 volt equipment, and cook in mechanical rooms that regularly exceed 120* F. Guys who have to work at high pressure, high temperature steam plants - which is in my job description but we don't have that at our facility, are exposed daily to the chance of being instantly burned alive, or left disfigured with no nose, ears, fingers, etc... The notion that a fast food or many other non-skilled worker is some sort of serf who has to endure so much oppression is ridiculous, to someone like me. As some here have correctly said, these type of jobs should not be careers - especially if the worker has intensions of owning a home or raising a family. If some of you make a living or volunteer in education or mentoring fields, and can only blame the rich for all the worlds problems, I can see where it's rubbing off on younger or underprivileged people. Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Back on topic. $15 an hour x 8 hour day x 5 days a week x 52 weeks per year = $31,200 annual salary. That is enough to live on, for a single person, depending on how frugal they are. Of course, they cannot afford a home or raise kids properly. A couple doing the same, or with a second job, maybe. I started at $30,000 annual salary, a little over 4 years ago, as a Heat and Power Plant assistant. I'm making close to double that now, due to my background, promotions, and overtime, when offered. But I had to accept crazy shifts, work with over 10,000 volt equipment, and cook in mechanical rooms that regularly exceed 120* F. Guys who have to work at high pressure, high temperature steam plants - which is in my job description but we don't have that at our facility, are exposed daily to the chance of being instantly burned alive, or left disfigured with no nose, ears, fingers, etc... The notion that a fast food or many other non-skilled worker is some sort of serf who has to endure so much oppression is ridiculous, to someone like me. As some here have correctly said, these type of jobs should not be careers - especially if the worker has intensions of owning a home or raising a family. If some of you make a living or volunteer in education or mentoring fields, and can only blame the rich for all the worlds problems, I can see where it's rubbing off on younger or underprivileged people. Many of the people who currently work in service industry jobs didn't always do so. Some had better paying manufacturing jobs but the plant closed and the only work they could find in their town was a low-skilled, low paying job. Others are elderly people whose pensions or social security payments haven't kept up with inflation. Still others only planned to work at their job long enough to complete a vocational training program or college. However, some crisis forced them to drop out of school so they're still mopping floors or cooking french fries for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 ^ And many, by my first hand experience, were never pushed to get even a part time job - until they barely graduated high school or slacked off for another 2 or 4 years taking liberal college courses. But you don't even want to challenge them at some stupid video game, their parents can boast. I was technician, then Engineer, at a very well known heating product company for 20+ years, but let go one month after Obamination took office. You know, the guy who takes credit for lowering unemployment, with nothing but fast food jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) ^ And many, by my first hand experience, were never pushed to get even a part time job - until they barely graduated high school or slacked off for another 2 or 4 years taking liberal college courses. But you don't even want to challenge them at some stupid video game, their parents can boast. I was technician, then Engineer, at a very well known heating product company for 20+ years, but let go one month after Obamination took office. You know, the guy who takes credit for lowering unemployment, with nothing but fast food jobs. Hey there Jimmie... You know, it sounds like you are a bit bitter having to work your ass off to get where you are while other folk with no ambition just skated by. I can understand that, it used to piss me off when I was working shitty jobs or entry level and I was there early, stayed late, busted my ass and some 24 year old douche living in mom & dads basement showed up late, did jack shit, but yet was promoted while I either floundered or became frustrated and quit to find a better opportunity. That shit has been going on forever and probably always will. Society will never get rid of that minority of assholes which milk the system and don't give a fuck in general. Believe me, the majority of people are good, hard working who just want to make a living for their families. We are conditioned as humans to notice all the bad shit and bad people but quickly forget or are oblivious to the hordes of people every day, right in front of us, who are honest, hard working folk. There is an old saying in the customer service industry (another one of the several jobs I have done in the past): Do a great job and no one remembers, fuck up once and no one forgets. Edited July 10, 2015 by IpMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in_the_evening Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 ^ And many, by my first hand experience, were never pushed to get even a part time job - until they barely graduated high school or slacked off for another 2 or 4 years taking liberal college courses. But you don't even want to challenge them at some stupid video game, their parents can boast. I was technician, then Engineer, at a very well known heating product company for 20+ years, but let go one month after Obamination took office. You know, the guy who takes credit for lowering unemployment, with nothing but fast food jobs. Maybe it was this post or another where I said technology is just DESTROYING so many jobs. Here are a few areas where we are seeing real potentially devastating job impacts: Fast Food. Voice recognition software will soon take the place of the person taking your order. Right now, many MCD's and others are experimenting with "remote order taking" where you pull up to a drive through, a person in India takes your order and inputs it via the Internet to the McD's you are at. Low level jobs going away. Look at Wally World and the big box stores with "self checkout lanes". Won't need those people pretty soon. IBM Watson in a very slimmed down version is displacing financial analysts. By being able to search and compare millions of stock transactions each second, the computer can make better choices (for far less money) than your financial analyst. Many online services with this technology are already up and running. Another IBM Watson moment is with lawyers, where initial testing is underway where the computer becomes your lawyer. Any point brought up in court, Watson hears, instantly seacrhes millions of cases, and can create counter points to the argument. My point being I think tech is almost done chewing way at the real low end jobs, it is now going to start "doing the sandwhich" where it will consume high end jobs at the same time it starts eating what's left of low and mid level jobs. I believe this is unstoppable. All the politicians will keep spinning their fantasy yarn about how many millions of jobs they will create if elected, but the job market is going to look radically different in the next ten to twenty years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIN Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I live in the Midwest and $15 an hour really won't get you much here either. You pretty much have to have a multiple income home to survive. Every job should, but not every job can. If we paid every job a high wage (baggers, fast-food clerks, gas station attendants, etc) the cost of living would sky rocket as operation costs would increase dramatically. That is why they are considered entry level opportunities and not careers. There is honor in hard work and ambition. They can get you a better life, you just have to want it. I know a very small percentage of people are legitimately unable to help themselves but most who think their job deserves twice what it's making just want an easy payday. Minimum wage jobs used to help people get a start. Young people going to school, part time 2nd wage earners in the home and retired people looking for a little extra. When I go to a fast food place and I see workers who are clearly NOT here legally, I don't patronize that place. The problem with jobs in this country is that we have collectively undercut the labor market by allowing for unchecked immigration. I don't fault people for wanting a better life, but this is in my opinion the main reason why wages are depressed. When you have people willing to work for wages that were not meant to support a home, this is the result. Now add to that with politicians who want to pander for votes offering to pay unsupported wages to the same folks, we are only further destroying jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Regarding your last sentence, there was no conspiracy regarding the bailout, the shit was put front and center. The government said, too big to fail, and the bailout was passed. Where do you get that there is / was a conspiracy? The government came right out and said to America, yeah, we seriously fucked up by not enforcing the Sherman Anti-Trust Laws and repealing regulation such as glass-spiegel which would have prevented this in the first place...oh well, here is your shit sandwich, take a big old bite! Oh and the assholes that caused all this? Too bad, we will not do a damn thing to them. No conspiracy there, they government just out and out pimp slapped us then sent our asses back out hustle. That is how bold the corporations and the government has become, they fear the American population about as much as they fear the possibility of an alien invasion. The bailout was no conspiracy, just the idea that billion dollar corporations are running the State from behind the scenes. And in reality does it really matter? Big corporations couldn't do a worse job than the dimwitted, self-serving elected officials in power now. The powers that be are going to crap on everyone for personal gain regardless. Edited July 10, 2015 by DAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 The bailout was no conspiracy, just the idea that billion dollar corporations are running the State from behind the scenes. And in reality does it really matter? Big corporations couldn't do a worse job than the dimwitted, self-serving elected officials in power now. The powers that be are going to crap on everyone for personal gain regardless. The corporations have been running the show since 1913, this is no conspiracy, it is fact. The main difference is Presidents did have power to somewhat check the corporations until Kennedy was murdered in 63'. That incident marked the complete end of any semblance of a representative democracy and the beginning of a very obvious Plutocracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hey there Jimmie... You know, it sounds like you are a bit bitter having to work your ass off to get where you are while other folk with no ambition just skated by. I can understand that, it used to piss me off when I was working shitty jobs or entry level and I was there early, stayed late, busted my ass and some 24 year old douche living in mom & dads basement showed up late, did jack shit, but yet was promoted while I either floundered or became frustrated and quit to find a better opportunity. That shit has been going on forever and probably always will. Society will never get rid of that minority of assholes which milk the system and don't give a fuck in general. Believe me, the majority of people are good, hard working who just want to make a living for their families. We are conditioned as humans to notice all the bad shit and bad people but quickly forget or are oblivious to the hordes of people every day, right in front of us, who are honest, hard working folk. There is an old saying in the customer service industry (another one of the several jobs I have done in the past): Do a great job and no one remembers, fuck up once and no one forgets. Yep, Yip - you nailed it. I may make a lot of jokes in here, and in real life - but I can be a bitter person in the working world. $15 an hour was something I only saw after getting a 2 year degree, and additional experience in a field that I started at the bottom (cleaning boilers and chimneys, nasty), well before I even graduated high school. I know you look up and shake your fist, but I tend to spite what's right in front of me. I guess if some members here are career fast food workers (that was the original focus of this thread), but decent and hard working, I apologize for not being more compassionate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Maybe it was this post or another where I said technology is just DESTROYING so many jobs. Here are a few areas where we are seeing real potentially devastating job impacts: Fast Food. Voice recognition software will soon take the place of the person taking your order. Right now, many MCD's and others are experimenting with "remote order taking" where you pull up to a drive through, a person in India takes your order and inputs it via the Internet to the McD's you are at. Low level jobs going away. Look at Wally World and the big box stores with "self checkout lanes". Won't need those people pretty soon. IBM Watson in a very slimmed down version is displacing financial analysts. By being able to search and compare millions of stock transactions each second, the computer can make better choices (for far less money) than your financial analyst. Many online services with this technology are already up and running. Another IBM Watson moment is with lawyers, where initial testing is underway where the computer becomes your lawyer. Any point brought up in court, Watson hears, instantly seacrhes millions of cases, and can create counter points to the argument. My point being I think tech is almost done chewing way at the real low end jobs, it is now going to start "doing the sandwhich" where it will consume high end jobs at the same time it starts eating what's left of low and mid level jobs. I believe this is unstoppable. All the politicians will keep spinning their fantasy yarn about how many millions of jobs they will create if elected, but the job market is going to look radically different in the next ten to twenty years. Unbridled technology is a big problem, for the general state of the world. Consumer habits are a ridiculous, with people buying disposable goods and always being brainwashed into needing the latest this and that. It doesn't seem like businesses realize the costs or keeping up with technology, once they commit to replacing people with it - maybe not having to provide space and health, retirement, etc... is a factor in the economics of it all? It may have been a factor, in my personal setback of losing a rewarding job that I was well suited for in the past. I don't feel threatened by it in my current position, where equipment needs hands on attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIN Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Unbridled technology is a big problem, for the general state of the world. Consumer habits are a ridiculous, with people buying disposable goods and always being brainwashed into needing the latest this and that. It doesn't seem like businesses realize the costs or keeping up with technology, once they commit to replacing people with it - maybe not having to provide space and health, retirement, etc... is a factor in the economics of it all? It may have been a factor, in my personal setback of losing a rewarding job that I was well suited for in the past. I don't feel threatened by it in my current position, where equipment needs hands on attention. But the bean counters never see the bigger picture. Most corporations only look at business performance goals over a couple of quarters and make hasty decisions on that type of timeline. Warm bodies may have added health and benefit costs (although in the USA the stupid ACA law gave them a loophole not to provide healthcare for less than full time people), but with technology they don't worry about the added technology costs because they don't figure in to the numbers beyond the limited timeline they are looking at. Place I work now just installed a half million in some automated new fangled thing which unless you have a very skilled (higher paid) person operating it to know what is going on, it just jams up and nobody can figure out why. They thought it could just be babysat by some low paid newbie, but it isn't that simple. Plus somebody earning that low pay doesn't really care about overall performance and productivity like somebody really vested in a job with decent pay and good benefits. Bean counters don't see it that way---- that is not their job. Their job is to make their limited number schemes look good and and have a really nice resume for when they jump to the next place. The best results in business are when people feel a sense of ownership to their jobs. When from top to bottom all are working to GROW the business long term and not just for a couple of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 The corporations have been running the show since 1913, this is no conspiracy, it is fact. The main difference is Presidents did have power to somewhat check the corporations until Kennedy was murdered in 63'. That incident marked the complete end of any semblance of a representative democracy and the beginning of a very obvious Plutocracy. This sounds more and more like a conspiracy every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/us/conderate-flag-southern-economics/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIN Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/us/conderate-flag-southern-economics/index.html ^^ From the article: "White supremacy was never the driving force behind Southernomics -- then or now. Greed and class domination were, says Lind, a fellow at the New America Foundation in Washington, a left-leaning think-tank, and a contributor to POLITICO magazine." What the left leaning chap doesn't answer is how more regulations, unions and higher taxes worked for cities like Detroit? You can't blame all of those economic and social failures on the south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Nice cherry picking of one sentence on an article where a number of contributing analysts are included. Speaking of Detroit, here is a very interesting article on the cause of the demise of the once great auto manufacturing city: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/23/detroit-decline-distinctively-capitalist-failure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIN Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Nice cherry picking of one sentence on an article where a number of contributing analysts are included. Speaking of Detroit, here is a very interesting article on the cause of the demise of the once great auto manufacturing city: I read the entire article, I just don't agree with it or the perspective it comes from. Even an auto worker making $25 per hour in the south is doing very well based on cost of living. A auto worker in Detroit making $75 per hour was a great job to while it lasted, but it couldn't be sustained given global competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Another utopian inspired disaster.. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/1/dan-price-seattle-ceo-who-set-company-minimum-wage/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I am going to share something I shared on another website. On a recent trip to Dunkin' Donuts, I had the following experience: Me: I would like oatmeal. Worker: Oatmeal? Me: Oatmeal. Worker: Oatmeal? Me: Oatmeal. Worker: Is that some type of ice cream? When fast food outlets hire people who speak English (and bathe regularly) I will have NO PROBLEM paying more so that they can earn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 ^ Scarlet, you should have ordered "mush". I will admit to going for White Castle once in a while - something about those stinky steamed onions... Last time, I went back and forth over my order about 6 hamburgers vs. the woman inside confirming that I wanted 10 cheeseburgers. Then she ignored me at the driveup window, saying she would have to put on a coat before opening it. When I asked for extra ketchup, it was literally thrown into my face, rather than my extended hand. I really just laughed so long and hard, it was worth the humiliation. But who puts up with this shit, on a daily basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) ^ Scarlet, you should have ordered "mush". I will admit to going for White Castle once in a while - something about those stinky steamed onions... Last time, I went back and forth over my order about 6 hamburgers vs. the woman inside confirming that I wanted 10 cheeseburgers. Then she ignored me at the driveup window, saying she would have to put on a coat before opening it. When I asked for extra ketchup, it was literally thrown into my face, rather than my extended hand. I really just laughed so long and hard, it was worth the humiliation. But who puts up with this shit, on a daily basis? Maybe they figure if you are up to abuse your body with that nasty fast food, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it as well? Just kidding BTW. It seems there are three types of people who work in fast food and shit jobs in particular: HS kids, immigrants with little skill and lack of fluency in english, and people who used to have good jobs which have now been outsourced. I have no issue, in fact I support raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour, however HS kids should be exempt from that wage with their wage being capped at $9 per hour. Also, if they are going to make that money serving fast food you will have a much better class of worker available which means you can chuck the assholes and hire competent people now that a competitive, semi-livable wage is paid. When they pay at the current minimum wage, well, you get HS kids who don't give two fucks about you or your shitty burger, or asshole scumbags who have probably wiped their ass with your burger bun and will later go home, do a bunch of whippets, and fuck their cat. I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want no $8 per hour cat fucker making my shitty fast food death burger. Edited August 4, 2015 by IpMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIN Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Maybe they figure if you are up to abuse your body with that nasty fast food, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it as well? Just kidding BTW. It seems there are three types of people who work in fast food and shit jobs in particular: HS kids, immigrants with little skill and lack of fluency in english, and people who used to have good jobs which have now been outsourced. I have no issue, in fact I support raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour, however HS kids should be exempt from that wage with their wage being capped at $9 per hour. Also, if they are going to make that money serving fast food you will have a much better class of worker available which means you can chuck the assholes and hire competent people now that a competitive, semi-livable wage is paid. When they pay at the current minimum wage, well, you get HS kids who don't give two fucks about you or your shitty burger, or asshole scumbags who have probably wiped their ass with your burger bun and will later go home, do a bunch of whippets, and fuck their cat. I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want no $8 per hour cat fucker making my shitty fast food death burger. I would cap immigrants at $3 per hour in hopes that they return to their homelands. Unless of course they are LEGAL immigrants and then they should be allowed to make the same as HS kids, 2nd income earners, and retired folks lookng to earn a few extra dollars up to the allowable limits prescribed by social security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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