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apantherfrommd

World War II

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But they did not surrender unconditionally, we just accepted the exact same terms of surrender they had been offering the US since June 1945. The dropping of the atomics changed nothing and the US never would have invaded Japan regardless since Japan had already offered terms of surrender (The only part which was conditional was they wanted to retain their Emperor). Now, a military coup (The Kyojo Incident) to overthrow the Emperor and fight the war to the last man standing actually took place but failed. The coup was discovered and stopped at the last moment but if this would have happened the US would have had no choice but to invade. So, the terms of surrender we accepted were the same terms they had been offering for some time, the bombs changed nothing.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

Plans were actually in place for that invasion but it was abandoned after Japan surrendered following the atomic bombings and the Soviet declaration of war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

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Plans were actually in place for that invasion but it was abandoned after Japan surrendered following the atomic bombings and the Soviet declaration of war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

Those plans had been in place for quite some time but by June 1945 the plans had been scrapped as Japan had already offered terms of surrender which was the exact same terms the US would accept after the dropping of the atomic bombs. Also, the firebombing of Tokyo in June was far more devastating than either atomic blast was. The Japanese knew they were done by May once the European theatre was over, the Soviets invaded Manchuria and were headed to Japan. Japan faced a two front invasion from an enemy which was known for incredible cruelty such as the raping and murdering of children and even cannibalism (Russians) on the one hand and another adversary less barbaric but very pissed off (America & UK). The whole fighting to the last man stuff was a minority of the command and the majority did not want to go down in history as being responsible for the wholesale slaughter of their own people.

I do not wish this to get heated so this will be my last response to this particular post. All due respect and peace.

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Somebody had to be a guinea pig for the Manhattan Project. I see the bombs as payback for all the atrocities the Japs inflicted on soldiers as well as civilians. Their Bushido code brought hell upon their heads. Deservedly so.

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Here's some photos my grandfather (or someone from his company) took in 1941. Quotations are what's written behind the pictures.

"Russians left some junk behind"

1_zpssbq4uwud.jpg

"Moving forward"

11_zps9hko94tm.jpg

"Here's that pig of ours, although now it has been already eaten"

9_zpslbqk9w6c.jpg

"The company leader washing laundry"

10_zpsrospnkje.jpg

"Kollaa" (famous battle place of Winter War)

2_zpstq0uxzox.jpg

I'll post some more later.

Great shots. :)

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Somebody had to be a guinea pig for the Manhattan Project. I see the bombs as payback for all the atrocities the Japs inflicted on soldiers as well as civilians. Their Bushido code brought hell upon their heads. Deservedly so.

Yep, plus the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.  They were a brutal enemy.  Yamamoto was spot on about  "awakening a sleeping giant and filling him with a terrible resolve."

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Yep, plus the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.  They were a brutal enemy.  Yamamoto was spot on about  "awakening a sleeping giant and filling him with a terrible resolve."

He was wise, but had to follow orders.

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More photos:

"One of our platoons. Notice the well camouflaged tent, you can see a little bit of chimney."

7_zpsiiufp12k.jpg

Officers of my grandfathers company. The guy who is marked was his platoon leader. The other marking means "field post box."

4_zpszdvnodlm.jpg

"The boys are setting up telephone knobs."

13_zpsefjax0cm.jpg

"The last village in Finnish side in Suojärvi. We stayed in this house."

14_zpsnzyuwh9p.jpg

"Russian burial mound in Kollaa."

6_zpsjv4vv0lg.jpg

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More photos:

"One of our platoons. Notice the well camouflaged tent, you can see a little bit of chimney."

7_zpsiiufp12k.jpg

Officers of my grandfathers company. The guy who is marked was his platoon leader. The other marking means "field post box."

4_zpszdvnodlm.jpg

"The boys are setting up telephone knobs."

13_zpsefjax0cm.jpg

"The last village in Finnish side in Suojärvi. We stayed in this house."

14_zpsnzyuwh9p.jpg

"Russian burial mound in Kollaa."

6_zpsjv4vv0lg.jpg

Great pics and so detailed. They must have used a medium format camera. :)

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Thanks for sharing these historic family photos!

 

Great pics and so detailed. They must have used a medium format camera. :)

Glad you liked them. Since I was a kid I've found these old photos (and other historic stuff) fascinating.

Edited by marlam

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Glad you liked them. Since I was a kid I've found these old photos (and other historic stuff) fascinating.

Do you have the negatives? I have a lot of my brother in-laws negatives from the war.

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Do you have the negatives? I have a lot of my brother in-laws negatives from the war.

No, just box full of old photos :) I have scanned some of them to my computer and uploaded to internet, just in case something happens to the originals.

Edited by marlam

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No, just box full of old photos :) I have scanned some of them to my computer and uploaded to internet, just in case something happens to the originals.

Good idea. My brother in-law used a Zeiss Ikon camera that used 120 film. I have the camera too but it's pretty ratty.

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Possibly the best way to get into his weird mind is to read his book (which I did in highschool......I burned it after reading).

I'm wondering what kind of effect this will have on the Great Grandchildren of those that originally were reading this religiously during WWII.

Mein Kampf is going to be republished in Germany for the first time in 70 years.

They're gonna do it with 4,000 copies, just to start. They want to have this in the High School curriculum and they've been given the ok by Germany's Education Minister.

https://www.rt.com/news/327023-mein-kampf-german-schools/

RT - 2 Days Ago

Germany's federal education minister has called for nationwide use of Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' in the classroom. It comes just before a critical version of the book is due to be reprinted for the first time since Hitler's death, sparking fierce debate.

Referencing the critical edition of the book, scheduled to be published by Munich's Institute for Contemporary History in January, Johanna Wanka told Passauer Neuen Presse that it is "aimed at promoting political education and is easily comprehensible."

Wanka said that Hitler's statements will not go "uncontradicted," adding that "students have questions, and it is right that they can get rid of these in the classroom and talk about the issue."

 

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I'm wondering what kind of effect this will have on the Great Grandchildren of those that originally were reading this religiously during WWII.

Mein Kampf is going to be republished in Germany for the first time in 70 years.

They're gonna do it with 4,000 copies, just to start. They want to have this in the High School curriculum and they've been given the ok by Germany's Education Minister.

https://www.rt.com/news/327023-mein-kampf-german-schools/

RT - 2 Days Ago

Germany's federal education minister has called for nationwide use of Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' in the classroom. It comes just before a critical version of the book is due to be reprinted for the first time since Hitler's death, sparking fierce debate.

Referencing the critical edition of the book, scheduled to be published by Munich's Institute for Contemporary History in January, Johanna Wanka told Passauer Neuen Presse that it is "aimed at promoting political education and is easily comprehensible."

Wanka said that Hitler's statements will not go "uncontradicted," adding that "students have questions, and it is right that they can get rid of these in the classroom and talk about the issue."

 

Merry Christmas Andy...

I think this is a good idea, let the kiddies see exactly how batshit mein fuher was vs. propaganda from the extreme right-wing neo-Nazi's. The one time I read this book, from the very beginning I thought anyone who would have read this book must have knows how insane and stupid Hitler was, this book is a goddamned mess, horrible writing and completely delusional. So strange to think the German people in 1934, when every German was given a copy, were cool with this shit. Just proves how pissed off and batshit a population can be under the right circumstances, however in contemporary society I believe the majority would see it for what it is...the blueprint of a very sick mind.

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WWII is the biggest, most important social and political event in human history.  The remaking of the boarders of Europe, the Holocaust and the eventual establishment of Israel, the invention of the computer, the atomic bomb and the Cold War.

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WWII is the biggest, most important social and political event in human history.  The remaking of the boarders of Europe, the Holocaust and the eventual establishment of Israel, the invention of the computer, the atomic bomb and the Cold War.

Excellent summation chef! Yes, even the invention of the computer.

My girlfriend had us watch this a while back, Chef. It's an excellent movie.

 

Merry Christmas Andy...

I think this is a good idea, let the kiddies see exactly how batshit mein fuher was vs. propaganda from the extreme right-wing neo-Nazi's. The one time I read this book, from the very beginning I thought anyone who would have read this book must have knows how insane and stupid Hitler was, this book is a goddamned mess, horrible writing and completely delusional. So strange to think the German people in 1934, when every German was given a copy, were cool with this shit. Just proves how pissed off and batshit a population can be under the right circumstances, however in contemporary society I believe the majority would see it for what it is...the blueprint of a very sick mind.

 

Happy New Year, IpMan. How's it goin'?

It's going well here and I'm very grateful for the health obstacles I was able to overcome in 2015. Thank you very much for your support, Bro. Very humbled and appreciative. Can't complain. :)

I consider myself and optimist as do you, but I can't help to check out all the angles incase one needs to prepare for the worst, ya know? Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I can see where exposing der fuehrer's insanity can be beneficial, but I also see a scenario of using Mein Kampf for educational purposes is both unnecessary and a case made for it's reintroduction as opening up Pandora's Box.

Support for right wing movements across Europe has been swelling recently. Plenty of anti-Semitic protests, etc. They may be kiddies in High School reading this book with disdain regarding the anti-Semitism; however this is a the same age as kids back then joining the Hitler Youth in that era so long ago. All the kids aren't going to see Hitler as we do. They're going to be adamant about seeing things their way - how they want to see it. And if the kids are indeed supposed to see the story of Hitler as we do, then why the commentary edition? I see it as more trouble than it's worth. This book is a bitch! Let sleeping dogs lie.

Maybe you and I can agree to disagree on this move. The Cons outweigh the Pros imo. This will sound very vain of me, but I see society getting more stupid. More technologically wiser than we, but more blind. I'm hoping you're right. What I see here are kiddies with their nose stuck onto the screen of a cell phone while they're walking in to people. Had it happen. Some dude walked right in to me. And was zombied! No apologies. Just kept on walking. Yes he did. :lol: All I could do was shake my head and laugh. I see it with people driving too. They drift from the right lane, two lanes over to the left without raising their eyes to look at the road until they hit the rumble strips. These are kiddies of today that i see here. I can only hope they're wiser in Europe. ;)

Edited by apantherfrommd
Punctuation

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Excellent summation chef! Yes, even the invention of the computer.

My girlfriend had us watch this a while back, Chef. It's an excellent movie.

 

 

Happy New Year, IpMan. How's it goin'?

It's going well here and I'm very grateful for the health obstacles I was able to overcome in 2015. Thank you very much for your support, Bro. Very humbled and appreciative. Can't complain. :)

I consider myself and optimist as do you, but I can't help to check out all the angles incase one needs to prepare for the worst, ya know? Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I can see where exposing der fuehrer's insanity can be beneficial, but I also see a scenario of using Mein Kampf for educational purposes is both unnecessary and a case made for it's reintroduction as opening up Pandora's Box.

Support for right wing movements across Europe has been swelling recently. Plenty of anti-Semitic protests, etc. They may be kiddies in High School reading this book with disdain regarding the anti-Semitism; however this is a the same age as kids back then joining the Hitler Youth in that era so long ago. All the kids aren't going to see Hitler as we do. They're going to be adamant about seeing things their way - how they want to see it. And if the kids are indeed supposed to see the story of Hitler as we do, then why the commentary edition? I see it as more trouble than it's worth. This book is a bitch! Let sleeping dogs lie.

Maybe you and I can agree to disagree on this move. The Cons outweigh the Pros imo. This will sound very vain of me, but I see society getting more stupid. More technologically wiser than we, but more blind. I'm hoping you're right. What I see here are kiddies with their nose stuck onto the screen of a cell phone while they're walking in to people. Had it happen. Some dude walked right in to me. And was zombied! No apologies. Just kept on walking. Yes he did. :lol: All I could do was shake my head and laugh. I see it with people driving too. They drift from the right lane, two lanes over to the left without raising their eyes to look at the road until they hit the rumble strips. These are kiddies of today that i see here. I can only hope they're wiser in Europe. ;)

I have to say Andy, after further reflection I must concur with your assessment. People seem to be getting dumber and dumber, more self-centered, and lacking any degree of historical perspective or history. Nothing good can come from Mein Kampf.

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My grandfathers WW 2 medals. From left to right: Cross of Karelia, Medal of Freedom 2nd class, Winter War memorial medal, Continuation War memorial medal and Cross of Tolvajärvi.

P1090529_zpsvgpjr97w.jpg

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I do not wish to be controversial but as far as WWII is concerned, I really never saw much of a difference between the Nazis' and the Soviets'. The Russians were our allies only because without our help they would have been crushed by Germany (lend lease). The Russians' invaded Poland in a joint operation with Germany and divided the country and spoils. Russia's, and Stalin's original plan was to divide Europe up between the Nazi & Soviet, then once that was accomplished possibly attack German occupied Europe at a later date. Hitler simply out Stalin'ed Stalin. The fact that the Russian's did not out and out murder the fuck out of Stalin when the Nazi's invaded just proves to me how psychotic and cruel the Russians at that time were, no better than the German population who allowed Hitler to rise to power. Also, Stalin murdered around 50 million of is own countrymen which makes Hitler look almost like a punter by comparison in regard to sheer numbers. Thank god for those Jewish doctors who poisoned his evil ass in 53' otherwise Stalin would have murdered millions more as was his plan at the time.

I know I am in the minority but once WWII was over I really believe we should have assassinated Stalin and forced elections in Russia. After all, they had lost around 20 million in the war and I doubt they would have wanted to fight the west who had fresh troops and atomics, regardless of the numerical superiority of the Soviets.

Oh well, it was what it was.

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7 hours ago, IpMan said:

I do not wish to be controversial but as far as WWII is concerned, I really never saw much of a difference between the Nazis' and the Soviets'. The Russians were our allies only because without our help they would have been crushed by Germany (lend lease). The Russians' invaded Poland in a joint operation with Germany and divided the country and spoils. Russia's, and Stalin's original plan was to divide Europe up between the Nazi & Soviet, then once that was accomplished possibly attack German occupied Europe at a later date. Hitler simply out Stalin'ed Stalin. The fact that the Russian's did not out and out murder the fuck out of Stalin when the Nazi's invaded just proves to me how psychotic and cruel the Russians at that time were, no better than the German population who allowed Hitler to rise to power. Also, Stalin murdered around 50 million of is own countrymen which makes Hitler look almost like a punter by comparison in regard to sheer numbers. Thank god for those Jewish doctors who poisoned his evil ass in 53' otherwise Stalin would have murdered millions more as was his plan at the time.

I know I am in the minority but once WWII was over I really believe we should have assassinated Stalin and forced elections in Russia. After all, they had lost around 20 million in the war and I doubt they would have wanted to fight the west who had fresh troops and atomics, regardless of the numerical superiority of the Soviets.

Oh well, it was what it was.

I agree with all you said. Stalin was just as evil with the gulags and slave labor he put in place. Magadan was one of many of the uranium slave labor camps.

Here in Magadan, tucked among the newer housing projects that came with the city's growth to a population of 150,000, are smaller buildings of the 1930's and 40's. They were erected with a labor force that, over the years, included bandits, peasants punished for resisting the collectivization of farms, real or imagined enemies of Stalin and, later, Japanese prisoners of war.

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June 4, 1942 - The Battle of Midway began. It was the first major victory for America over Japan during World War II. The battle ended on June 6 and ended Japanese expansion in the Pacific. 

 

Battle-Of-Midway-Turns-Tide-Of-Pacific-War-10.jpg

BattleOfMidway1.jpg

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Last night I watched 'The Victors' (1963). It was an all star cast and the women were all beautiful. Eli Wallach played the tough sgt. Peter Fonda played a replacement and none of the squad took to him because he was 'new' and  he was trying to keep a stray dog. This really brought on the wrath of the squad and they threw him and the dog out of the tent. When Fonda tried to sneak the dog on the truck the sgt. (George Hamilton) tossed it to the side. Now this part they cut from the movie. As the truck left the dog began to follow and one of the guys says: "50 bucks I get him on the first shot." Bang! "That's 50 bucks you owe me!" Fonda, heartbroken, just hung his head after this. The movie is filled with great scenes and humor. 5 Stars on the Redrum-O-Meter. :)

THE VICTORS.jpg

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