New Album

[kirchzep27]

Absolutely!

And really its "absolutely" to your post, but here's to second chances and life and music.

[AllisonAdler]

And really its "absolutely" to your post, but here's to second chances and life and music.

To the very same

[greenman]

I'm not into any new age metaphysical bullshit but I do think something extraordinary happened from the first time they played together. Swapping to one of their sons doesn't seem to have changed much either. I'd put that down to being extremely compatable rather than anything supernautural.

I don't find anything that they've recorded since the split to be essential or any where near as good as LZ. P & P excluded JPJ & JB because it was meant to be very definately not LZ.

I'm not sure they'd be able to pull off an album that lives up to the back catalogue. It couldn't be LZ without riffs and lots of them but RP would be pulling in a diferent direction. ITTOD which was really RP & JPJ album was only partially successful for me.

My worry about them trying to record an album before they toured would be that they'd fail and the tour would never happen. A year on the road getting to know each other musically again would only assist them if they did an album afterwards.

I'd agree with alot of that, interaction and interpretation were a massive part of Zep and the lack of a proper "band of equals" was a large part of the failiure of Walking to Clarksdale.

I have a hard time seeing them come up with songwritting as good as the 70's but if they tour and devolp an understanding then I do think some worthwhile material could devolp. Personally I'd say the best route to take could be reworking blues/RnR material as that would allow any understaning to come to the fore more easily.

[GetTheLedOut]

However, I don’t think it can be denied that the group has an energy that did indeed make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

It can be denied, as to believe this you have to assume in some kind of supernatural force, which is by no means a universal opinion. You can say that people compliment each other better than others, but if Jimmy Page had found three other musicians of equal talent and equal openness, the results would have been similarly good. Now, for many this would be impossible, as they consider Plant, Jones and Bonham the best in their field, however it's not a matter of any kind of unexplainable phenomenon.

As for the original topic of this post, I would love to see what they could create together now. According to many of the interviews, they seem to have found that connection again, with Jason this time around. Perhaps they are all in the right creative place again at the right time. There is no guarantee that it will be at the level of their early work but there is just as much chance that it will. To say that they shouldn’t try because of the risk to the Led Zeppelin legacy is selfish on our part. They are first and foremost artists and need to be allowed to create. IMO to want them to tour but not to create new material is hypocritical as well as selfish. Are we going to ask that they cancel the tour if we find that the shows detract from our memories of the 70’s shows? If you read the interviews where they have been willing to entertain questions about a reunion, it is often the pressure of living up to the Led Zeppelin legacy and the expectations of their fans that has made them resistant. There are those that will continue to cheer them regardless but I’m sure they feel the pressure of those who are so entrenched in the Led Zeppelin “mythology” that they find anything less than a 70’s rock god performance blasphemous (yes, I realize that hyperbolic but it makes my point).

Whatever they choose to do, I will always be grateful for the music they have shared with me and allowed me to share with others and I look forward to what comes next for them, individually or together. I will be waiting patiently for it – and determining just how much I should be squirreling away in case they do play MSG. A girl can still dream

I don’t think it's fair to say there is as much of a chance, not because of age but because the motives just aren’t the same. The way they made music in the late teens through their early 30s is simply not possible to reproduce because they aren’t those people anymore. It’s not a matter of creativity or ability, but a matter of being able to find a new way to approach new music. Finding an approach is much harder than any other part of songwriting. If this can be done, then your statement of “there is just as much chance that it will (be good)” is not incorrect. But this is not something we can bet on, but only hope.

On the topic of Plato, I haven’t studied much of his work but he had a good deal to say on the arts so I’m sure there are many works of his in regards to music. I am a bit more familiar with Schopenhauer – a Plato-ist in several regards– who said much on the metaphysics of music which some might find interesting based on previous discussions in this thread.

Plato (who often is just reflecting Socrates) is well respected as part of the genesis of modern thought, but that doesn't mean he's an irrefutable source of fact. His idea of the perfect republic (as illustrated in "the Republic") I find to be unrealistic, and therefore just a fantasy, but this is just a matter of opinion.

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything.

This quote you had I find the most incorrect. Music does not give wings to the mind, in fact it's the other way around. Music itself is just a demonstration, not a therapy. Making music can perhaps fit that quote for some, but the music itself is just vibration in the air.

p.p.s. if one believes that there is something called spirituality, doesn't one implicitly believe in that which is beyond the physical...?

This is because I don't consider spirituality and metaphysics the same thing. Here are some dictionary definitions that I use to define the words.

Spiritual: (adjective) concerned with or affecting the spirit or soul

Metaphysical: (adjective) highly abstract and over-theoretical

If these are not synonyms to me and they're not that closely related. Spiritual pertains to one's thoughts, while metaphysical pertains to abstract notions and forces unexplainable. I don't believe in the unexplainable, I do however believe in the mind, or one's spirit (in a thought/mind sense only). You can say Zeppelin's music is thoughtful, or spiritual perhaps, but to say it or any other music is metaphysical is going way to far.

[AllisonAdler]

I'm really glad you've got Plato sorted, GTLO. A good many philosophers I've known have spent the better portion of their academic careers trying to figure him out. You're way ahead of them. And Plato, too.

May Jimmy, Robert, Jonesey, and Jason make an incredible new album.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

[Dharmabum]

p.s. a nice, standard def. of metaphysical, courtesy of Wikipedia. You'll find I haven't "warped it."

Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science, traditionally, cosmology and ontology. It is also concerned with explaining the ultimate nature of being and the world.[1] Its name derives from the Greek words (metá) (meaning "after") and (physiká) (meaning "physics"), "physics" referring to those works on matter by Aristotle in antiquity. The prefix meta- ("after") simply meant the chapters in Aristotle's work that physically followed after the chapter "physics". Aristotle called them "first philosophy". Over time, the meaning of "meta" has shifted to mean "beyond; over; transcending" in English. Therefore, metaphysics is also the study of that which transcends physics.

Also from Wikipedia (holism): "The general principle of holism was concisely summarized by Aristotle in the Metaphysics: "The whole is more than the sum of its parts."

So the orginal perspective put forth here is firmly grounded in western philosophy, as Allison Adler has so clearly pointed out. This is not airy-fairy new age spiritualism. Led Zeppelin as a unit was something else, a "5th element" as Page himself mentioned (see the recent Rolling Stone article). I'm going with Aristotle and Jimmy Page on this one. Here's to the possibility of a new album, conceived, produced, and played by a re-formed Led Zeppelin, 5th element and all!

[GetTheLedOut]

I'm really glad you've got Plato sorted, GTLO. A good many philosophers I've known have spent the better portion of their academic careers trying to figure him out. You're way ahead of them. And Plato, too.

You know that's not what I meant. I simply said that not everything Plato said is correct and that isn't a controversial issue. The man, as well as many other greek philosophers are as influential as ever. Surely you don't think that any one man in history is indisputably correct on everything they said?

[fortunata811]

GTLO, I respect that you have your opinion and I will continue to have mine. I would like to clarify that I was not inferring any type of “supernatural force”. Synergy is a common scientific concept, originally a term of chemistry and physics, it was later applied to behavioral and management sciences as well. There’s no “magic” to it and there are many ways to encourage it; however, like other human interactions, there are uncontrollable factors that make it less than predictable. Some groups will simply never have it and sometimes it will occur very naturally among individuals.

Perhaps if group performance could be determined by simply putting the most talented individuals together, the Cubs could really buy themselves a World Series. As a native Chicagoan and a Cubs fan, I really wish they could.

[GetTheLedOut]

GTLO, I respect that you have your opinion and I will continue to have mine. I would like to clarify that I was not inferring any type of “supernatural force”. Synergy is a common scientific concept, originally a term of chemistry and physics, it was later applied to behavioral and management sciences as well. There’s no “magic” to it and there are many ways to encourage it; however, like other human interactions, there are uncontrollable factors that make it less than predictable. Some groups will simply never have it and sometimes it will occur very naturally among individuals.

That's fine to think, but I don't buy the idea that it's something other than physical. I think it's purely a combination of talent and mentality of the members of Zeppelin. It's not some alchemy, as you said, and it's not something we cannot explain. A lot of the homers for the band will read about the "magic" they've had and then believe that hearing anything else is blasphemy. I don't buy it when any band says it. To me, saying your band had/has the "magic" means they have talent and a good work habits, not anything else.

Perhaps if group performance could be determined by simply putting the most talented individuals together, the Cubs could really buy themselves a World Series. As a native Chicagoan and a Cubs fan, I really wish they could.

Well if we're going to get on that subject you have to consider that a lot of the players they bring in are not nearly as talented as they're marketed to be and/or they get injured. It's hard to play ball when you're not on the field. Remember how they told us Mark Prior had perfect mechanics and Felix Pie was supposed to be great? I don't see those people talking much anymore.