McSeven Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I was just listening to a Heavy Metal Documentary on Youtube. One of the guys they were interviewing said that Zeppelin would be like Beethovan. Bach would be Van Halen and Wagner would be like Deep Purple. In terms of style. I guess they are more focussing on the riffs/guitar analogy. What do you all think? Mc7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles_Obscure Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 No. FZ was. Not Zep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Well, technically Zappa would be Stravinsky! That said, I do have to agree with Mr Obscure above. Classically influenced rockers like Zappa or maybe Blackmore notwithstanding, Zeppelin really doesn't fit the mold. Coming from a classical background (my dad was a classically trained pianist who put me in lessons when I was four), with a few exceptions on the part of JPJ, I don't see Zeppelin as anything other than 20th century rock (folk blues etc). The very best of course! Oh hell, it's a bizarre analogy anyway. If Zep were Renaissance painters... I think I misunderstood the question. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSeven Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Well, technically Zappa would be Stravinsky! That said, I do have to agree with Mr Obscure above. Classically influenced rockers like Zappa or maybe Blackmore notwithstanding, Zeppelin really doesn't fit the mold. Coming from a classical background (my dad was a classically trained pianist who put me in lessons when I was four), with a few exceptions on the part of JPJ, I don't see Zeppelin as anything other than 20th century rock (folk blues etc). The very best of course! Oh hell, it's a bizarre analogy anyway. If Zep were Renaissance painters... I think I misunderstood the question. Sorry. Evster. When I say that Zep emulate Classical players like Bach and Beethovan. I would be using song like STH/K/ALS. No rock and roll or Celebration day. I am just going by what I heard on the youtube video. Mc7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I was just listening to a Heavy Metal Documentary on Youtube. One of the guys they were interviewing said that Zeppelin would be like Beethovan. Bach would be Van Halen and Wagner would be like Deep Purple. In terms of style. I guess they are more focussing on the riffs/guitar analogy. What do you all think? Mc7 hahaha What ridiculous and pointless comparisons.... For a start, Bach is baroque, Beethoven is classical (early Romantic) and Wagner is decidedly Romantic... Stylistically that's like comparing metal to pop to reggae Bach, Beethoven and Wagner were wildly different composers with wildly different compositional styles... If anything Led Zep shares some sort of vague comparison with Bach, as both Bach and Led Zep employed a virtuoso ornamentation over a structured and modulating continuo. 70's rock music's closest classical comparison (there's an aliteration for you!) would have to be Baroque music, due to both styles focusing on a modal-influenced improvisational ornamental style on an often-minor tonal form. Both styles of music were heavily inspired by virtuoso improvisation, and hardly any chromaticism, and chromaticism is far more a feature of romantic-period music. Rock and especially Prog Rock borrows themes and ideas from baroque music, whereas pop music tends to borrow more ideas from classical-period and romantic-period music Baroque music is typically 1600-1750, Classical 1750-1810, Romantic 1810-1900 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Absolutely agree with Ev here. To me the greatness of Led Zeppelin consists precisely in the circumstance that they rely almost entirely on influences from various strands of popular music and yet time and again reach what can only be described as artistic heights. 'Achilles Last Stand' to me is a good example of just that. It's pure rock and fucking roll - and a work of art. This can be contrasted with a different approach that became prominent at about the same time as when LZ were in their prime, namely that of many of the progressive rock bands. They also aimed at creating music with real artistic value, but proceeding by way of obvious classical influences, which is a much more obvious procedure. And Deep Purple used classical influences, as Ev mentioned, but in their case in a much more hard rocking vein. The interplay between Jon Lord and Ritchie Blackmore is what I've always liked most about them, and if you take the solos from 'Highway Star' or 'Burn' the classical influence is really obvious - and yet they never reach a similar level of artistic merit as LZ in my opinion at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles_Obscure Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Well, technically Zappa would be Stravinsky! A perfect fusion of Stravinsky and Edgar Varèse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 A perfect fusion of Stravinsky and Edgar Varèse Zappa would have loved that description! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) Zappa would have loved that description! I still can't get over the fact that Vaclav Havel asked Zappa if he would like to be a minister in his newly formed Czechoslovakian Government, and Zappa said yes, but the US Government put pressure on Havel to withdraw the offer... Sorry that was a Czech ambassador for trade, culture and tourism, apparently Edited May 22, 2008 by Gainsbarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles_Obscure Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 What's that smell? Oh! I know. Hegemony! When a government is feeling threatened by a musician, well! it's time to ask questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 What's that smell? Oh! I know. Hegemony! When a government is feeling threatened by a musician, well! it's time to ask questions. Secretary of State James Baker said to the Czechs "You can do business with the United States, or you can do business with Frank Zappa..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChild Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) Ev, Otto and Gainesbarre, nice posts. I see the Baroque aspects, too. Secretary of State James Baker said to the Czechs "You can do business with the United States, or you can do business with Frank Zappa..." Wow. Those right-wing dudes are a bunch of very uptight mo-fos, huh? Edited May 22, 2008 by SunChild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It's easy to see how the thought processes behind songs like Dynamo Hum, Uncle Remus, and Moving to Montana would insure the credentials to be a compentant ambassador for trade, culture, and tourism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJD Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Secretary of State James Baker said to the Czechs "You can do business with the United States, or you can do business with Frank Zappa..." Do you have a source for that? Sounds fascinating and I'd love to read more. i read one of Zappa's books years ago. Good stuff. Ok, I need to go find my wristwatch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Do you have a source for that? Sounds fascinating and I'd love to read more. i read one of Zappa's books years ago. Good stuff. Ok, I need to go find my wristwatch.... I had read it before somewhere, but I can't remember, but one place I did find it again was on a website by Prague Radio: Frank Zappa's connections to Prague [23-05-2006 12:11 UTC] By Linda Mastalir Listen 16kb/s ~ 32kb/s This week the people of Prague have a chance to hear Frank Zappa's music, thanks to the efforts of the American rock musician's sons, Ahmet and Dweezil. They have organized a European concert tour called "Tour de Frank", and are performing in honour of their father, who died in 1993. There is a special connection between Frank Zappa and the Czech Republic. Zappa's music belongs to a repertoire once-banned by the communist censors, and Frank Zappa himself gained huge acclaim in Prague following the Velvet Revolution. Frank ZappaWhen Zappa was invited to Prague by Vaclav Havel in January 1990, he was reportedly shocked at his instant popularity, as well as by how well people knew his musicin the 1970s and 1980s Czechs listened to Zappa thanks to albums that were smuggled into communist Czechoslovakia via secret networks that transported literature, music, and even musical instruments. Ahmet Zappa and Dweezil Zappa, photo: www.zappa.comThe connection may not seem immediately obvious, but Frank Zappa's popularity in Prague is closely connected to the dark days of the dissident era, when his music and that of the Velvet Underground were blacklisted by the censors. For example, Frank Zappa's second album, Absolutely Free was smuggled into Czechoslovakia within a year of its 1967 release, and critics claim that the music influenced the famous Czech underground rock band, The Plastic People of the Universe. Zappa's tunes thus came to represent freedom and independent thought to dissidents in Czechoslovakia. Reports have it that when young kids in communist Czechoslovakia played heavy rock music, the police would tell them to "turn off that Frank Zappa music." Frank Zappa with Vaclav HavelThen, in January 1990, Vaclav Havel appointed Frank Zappa as "Special Ambassador to the West on Trade, Culture and Tourism," much to the disgruntlement of U.S. Secretary of State, James Baker, who is famous for declaring: "You can do business with the United States or you can do business with Frank Zappa." Still, Vaclav Havel's friendship with Frank Zappa grew, and Zappa shared his ideas about increasing tourism to Czechoslovakia, and explained the concept of credit cards which were then an unknown quantity in this part of the world. It was Frank Zappa's brief interlude in the world of international trade and diplomatic relationsand the vantage-point was Prague. Vaclav Havel still counts himself amongst Zappa's big fans, and says that "Frank Zappa was one of the gods of the Czech underground." There he'll surely stay in the memories of his Czech friends. http://www.radio.cz/en/article/79169 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toleressea Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Zeppelin would Beethoven. Although I am not a critic I listen to both and to me they are comparable. Beethoven lulls me into a sense of solitude and then bam! here comes the train - much like Jimmy's arranging. The flowers in the hair dint stay there long listening to either maestro. There was a member on here about a year ago maybe longer that did a paper for collage and compared Beethoven and Zeppelin. The paper was very good and a nice read. I wonder if she is still around and how she is doing now (the search function on the sight still sucks). I printed her paper for my personal use with her permission. I have since lost a few pages but still show it to others to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I think it was Robert who once called Page the "Wagner of the Telecaster". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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