The Athiest thread

[~tangerine~]

When have ever missed your point?

I'll get back to this later

No, I don't think McCain can fix the economy. That being said, I also think Ron Paul was the onloy candidate who could. But to simply cast blame for this disaster on the "Republican Administration" is simply incorrect. We've been heading in this direction for a while.

So you do care. If you didn't care, then you wouldn't it being on her agenda...which she couldn't pass anyways since the Democrats own Congress...

I agree, she can't help us.

And yet Obama found a way to be the next president...

Oh come on. What is his plan? No one has a real plan to fix this mess because none of the candidates are economically-trained as they should have been. McCain is all about foreign policy and Obama is simply charismatic, but neither one really knows how to fix the economy in four years. The result of stupid people in power in the last century is finally going to crash down on this country and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

I can't recite examples, but many times i feel you miss my point when you react to something i've said. That's okay, it's the internet, lol.

We have been headed in this direction since Ronald Reagan. He started the deregulation of government...but anyway, maybe i give Bush and his Administrative picks too much credit, or maybe our economy collapsed under him because he only cared about ONE thing the past eight years...an unjustified war that has cost us billions, and lost us many innocent, young lives. A war that Obama had the insight to see was wrong.

Obama is very intelligent, and he is smart enough to surround himself with knowledgable people (his reason for choosing Joe Biden as a running mate). Say all the bad you want about Joe, but he "IS" well respected by his colleagues, and he is very knowledgable about all the important issues. Obama also speaks of Warren Buffet, who i would trust over most to assist in directing us towards help with this economy. I believe Obama will have the best people working on fixing our country.

As for Palin, i care that some stupid, egomanical, narrow-minded, bible thumping nobody was picked to be our next potential VP. She has nothing to offer the majority of Americans......

[wanna be drummer]

I can't recite examples, but many times i feel you miss my point when you react to something i've said. That's okay, it's the internet, lol.

Whatever

We have been headed in this direction since Ronald Reagan. He started the deregulation of government...but anyway, maybe i give Bush and his Administrative picks too much credit, or maybe our economy collapsed under him because he only cared about ONE thing the past eight years...an unjustified war that has cost us billions, and lost us many innocent, young lives. A war that Obama had the insight to see was wrong.

You think Reagan started this? FDRs economic policies ae still being felt today. We can trace the fuckups of today back to his reign during the Great Depression

Obama is very intelligent,

The way you think about McCains intelligence is equivalent to what I think of Obama's

and he is smart enough to surround himself with knowledgable people (his reason for choosing Joe Biden as a running mate). Say all the bad you want about Joe, but he "IS" well respected by his colleagues, and he is very knowledgable about all the important issues. Obama also speaks of Warren Buffet, who i would trust over most to assist in directing us towards help with this economy. I believe Obama will have the best people working on fixing our country.

McCain is respected. So what?

As for Palin, i care that some stupid, egomanical, narrow-minded, bible thumping nobody was picked to be our next potential VP. She has nothing to offer the majority of Americans......

I never said she was going to help the country, but to vote based on her social issues is a bit stupid at this point in history. It's so insignificant right now

[Mary Hartman]

Personally I don't see how not voting for Palin now is any different than making the decision to not vote for her long ago. Only that the more intelligent saw through her to begin with.

It's about that easy...

She is better equipped to take care of Alaska where it's cold as snot and she can waste taxpayers money on trips and clothing. Knowing her she will be clubbing baby seals soon AND have the pictures in her parlor. As far as her religious beliefs go, stupid is as stupid does. Plus she's not here to defend herself.

Ohhhh golly gee

[wanna be drummer]

Speaking of stupid, anyone ever listened to Mrs. Obama talk?

[Mona]

first off, the Earth is hundreds of millions (if not several billion... I wouldn't know for sure) years older then 6,000.

The earth is somewhere between 4-5 billion years old. The Universe itself is about 15 billion years old. The first organisims appeared about 2.5 billion years ago, but they were single-celled, non-complex creatures. Organisms with multiple cells arrived somewhere between that time and 570 million years ago, after which the Cambrian explosion occured. The first land plants and animals didn't come into being until 435 million years ago. Dinosaurs appeared 240 million years ago, and went extinct 65 million years ago. Great apes evolved between 38 and 24 million years ago. The first upright primates - the Australopithicines - evolve 2 million years ago. The first members of the Homo genus appear about 1 million years ago, neanderthals die out 30 thousand years ago. The first anatomically modern humans appear 100 thousand years ago, and the first great civilizations of the world are formed 10 thousand years ago.

Yeah, definatly not a short time scale. 6,000 years is a very small amount of time by comparison. Homo Sapiens has been around almost 17 times as long as the bible says the earth has existed. Even given that, Homo Sapiens has only been around for an extremely small fraction of the time the earth has existed. The earth is 40,000 times older than human beings.

The earth leaves a record in it's rocks. If you know how to read them, there is a lot of information you can learn. People who say the earth is only 6000 years old ignore the earth and the world around them and the information it presents. We know the numbers above are true because of what is written in the earth record. We know that evolution is true because you can read it in this same record. It keeps track of everything.

In my opinion, the things we've learned about the earth and about the universe and about how it all works is so much more amazing and wonderful than any religious explination. The universe is so much bigger and grander and more mysterious than anyone ever thought, but they refuse to acknowlage it. The fact that we did get here by evolution, that we survived and that we were able to become the creatures we are now, is just amazing. You don't need religion to understand or appreciate the world or to find beauty in it.

[Mona]

ALL Religions are a belief in the one true God - FACT

No. As Nathan said, there are far more polytheistic religions than monotheistic ones. Many of the polytheistic religions have a different way of interpreting what God is as well. They do not share the western idea of what a God is supposed to be like.

Creationism is a belief that all if not most religions embrace - FACT

No. Once again, the eastern religions have a different way of viewing things. Buddhism is actually quite compatible with science. Everything is everything else. It's all the same. What created or caused it isn't an issue.

Big Bang is a theory - FACT

Evolution is a theory - FACT

The word "theory" in science has a much different meaning than it does in every day language. In science, a theory is something that has been tested and tested over and over and is certainly a fact. Evolution and the Big Bang are theories, just like gravity is a theory. The use of the word is different.

All modern "western" laws were derived from the Bible, specifically the Old Testament, The Ten Commandments and that's a good thing, no?

All cultures have forms of similar laws. They may not be worded the same way, but they say the same thing. That sort of thing is simply human code.

Here's something that might interest you. The earliest recorded form of the ten commandments was written in Hammurabi's code in Babylon, many years before the Exodus. The Jews were enslaved in Babylon at the time of Hammurabi's rule.

The Biblle and Koran etcetera are always open to some, often illogical interpretation.

They are in there simplest form "life guide books".

Agreed.

Nevertheless there are many beautiful things within as well as the fire and brimstone that people mosly talk about.

Scientists, if as some have intimated are atheists have a lot to answer for as well.

There have been many, many great things that science has provided some good and some evil.

Medicine and biological research, space exlporation and so on, too many in fact to list, have benefitted us all.

However, science like religion in the wrong hands and minds have "created" terrible things that are not good for mankind.

Nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

Agreed again.

You make a decent argument, but you need to get some of your facts right, LOL.

[shnflacwav]

Knowing her she will be clubbing baby seals soon AND have the pictures in her parlor.

Yeah, and Obama will be sitting at the liquor store wearing his do-rag and drinking a 40.

[~tangerine~]

Whatever

You think Reagan started this? FDRs economic policies ae still being felt today. We can trace the fuckups of today back to his reign during the Great Depression

The way you think about McCains intelligence is equivalent to what I think of Obama's

McCain is respected. So what?

I never said she was going to help the country, but to vote based on her social issues is a bit stupid at this point in history. It's so insignificant right now

Whatever...agreed, lol.

Read this if you want to see how blind so many are. This article discusses how great Reagan's deregulation of "big" government was and how great Bush (vomit) policies were (back in 2001). Now look what the Republicans got us into (finally) when their illusion was dissolved. http://www.heritage.org/Research/taxes/BG1414.cfm

I posted some links the other day from experts on the economy. If you didn't see them, you might want to look back at them. All I know is we went from a nice surplus when Clinton left office to the demise of our Economy, and so much more (healthcare, education, employment, all down the toilet thanks to the Bush years). Name me ONE thing Bush did in his 8 years that was good for our country. I assure you and all who vote for McCain, he will do the same great work as GWB did. We will soon all be learning to speak Chinese.

I know McCain is dull. Look up his educational record. Almost last in his class when he graduated the Academy, lol. He has temper tantrums, he is hot headed, and he is a spoiled brat. It's scary when elderly people revert back to being babies, and we have had the misfortune of witnessing this from him on many occasions. The fact that Obama can keep his cool is very respectable and "mature". I don't want another immature "and" stupid President.

You make NO SENSE with that last statement about Palin. I vote for the most intelligent person, who has real plans (read Obama's website if you are not familiar with his plans) who will surround themselves with the best people to help our situation. The fact that Palin is on the ballet is reason enough for many Republicans to be crossing party lines. LOL. I don't have to cross party lines. I don't vote for the only give a damn about the wealthy people politians...aka Republicans.

Sorry wannabe, crazy old man Ron Paul is not on the ballet, get over it.

[~tangerine~]

Yeah, and Obama will be sitting at the liquor store wearing his do-rag and drinking a 40.

Sarah Palin's disdain towards wildlife is real, and shameful, and very hard for many to understand. I posted many links a couple months ago about not only her policies, but how many Alaskan "Hunters" were appalled at her policies. That's pretty sad. Anyone who is so pro-life should be ashamed of themselves for being so cold hearted towards other living animals. I happen to believe that her only reason for being so strictly pro-life is her brainwashed religious mind, anyway. I don't believe she really cares about most people, lol.

Nice racial slur, btw...

[~tangerine~]

Speaking of stupid, anyone ever listened to Mrs. Obama talk?

Ever listen to Cindy McCain or Mr. Palin talk??????

[shnflacwav]

Sarah Palin's disdain towards wildlife is real, and shameful, and very hard for many to understand. I posted many links a couple months ago about not only her policies, but how many Alaskan "Hunters" were appalled at her policies. That's pretty sad. Anyone who is so pro-life should be ashamed of themselves for being so cold hearted towards other living animals. I happen to believe that her only reason for being so strictly pro-life is her brainwashed religious mind, anyway. I don't believe she really cares about most people, lol.

Nice racial slur, btw...

Racial slur my ass. You open minded liberals can sure dish it out, but the minute someone says one thing about your precious Obama, you get all defensive.

[~tangerine~]

Racial slur my ass. You open minded liberals can sure dish it out, but the minute someone says one thing about your precious Obama, you get all defensive.

You mentioned the rag head, and you know "why" you said it.

He is not my "precious" Obama, but i know he will fight for this country while McCain will fight with people, lol, and continue the Bush years. I can take it just fine, and i can retaliate if i feel the need, just fine, too.

[shnflacwav]

Typical elitist - thinks she knows whatever everyone is thinking.

As a matter of fact, most of the males in my family wear "towels" and "rags" on their heads as you white people like to point out.

[wanna be drummer]

Whatever...agreed, lol.

Read this if you want to see how blind so many are. This article discusses how great Reagan's deregulation of "big" government was and how great Bush (vomit) policies were (back in 2001). Now look what the Republicans got us into (finally) when their illusion was dissolved. http://www.heritage.org/Research/taxes/BG1414.cfm

Reagan was a damn good president. Bush has blown.

What's your point? And how pray tell did the Republicans get us into this? You honestly think it's all the Republicans fault? Are you serious?

I posted some links the other day from experts on the economy. If you didn't see them, you might want to look back at them. All I know is we went from a nice surplus when Clinton left office to the demise of our Economy, and so much more (healthcare, education, employment, all down the toilet thanks to the Bush years). Name me ONE thing Bush did in his 8 years that was good for our country. I assure you and all who vote for McCain, he will do the same great work as GWB did. We will soon all be learning to speak Chinese.

Where did I say Bush has done anything right? Where did I show outright support of McCain?

You have me all wrong Tangerine...

I know McCain is dull. Look up his educational record. Almost last in his class when he graduated the Academy, lol. He has temper tantrums, he is hot headed, and he is a spoiled brat. It's scary when elderly people revert back to being babies, and we have had the misfortune of witnessing this from him on many occasions. The fact that Obama can keep his cool is very respectable and "mature". I don't want another immature "and" stupid President.

What does his education from 50 years ago have to do with anything at this point in his life? It's entirely irrelevant.

As far as Obama keepng his cool, not from what I saw from the last debate. He visibly looked shaken up after McCain went heavy on the offensive.

You make NO SENSE with that last statement about Palin. I vote for the most intelligent person, who has real plans (read Obama's website if you are not familiar with his plans) who will surround themselves with the best people to help our situation. The fact that Palin is on the ballet is reason enough for many Republicans to be crossing party lines. LOL. I don't have to cross party lines. I don't vote for the only give a damn about the wealthy people politians...aka Republicans.

And you said I missed your point?

I'm saying that people, in general (not just you) should be voting for only two things right now and thats the economy and the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Beliefs on God have to wait until those messes are resolved and cleaned up, otherwise we don't have a country period. That's all I'm saying. Palin's God-issues should be a non-topic right now, something the Democrats should want (they have to focus on the economy to win).

Sorry wannabe, crazy old man Ron Paul is not on the ballet, get over it.

I AM over it. I knew he wasn't going to get on the ballot all along. It was outright obvious. But that doesn't mean he wasn't the best choice. Instead we got this

Hurray for America...

PS: What's with the "lol" after every five sentences or so?

[~tangerine~]

Typical elitist - thinks she knows whatever everyone is thinking.

As a matter of fact, most of the males in my family wear "towels" and "rags" on their heads as you white people like to point out.

Show me one place where i have "pointed that out". Don't make your prejudices mine, they are not. I am prejudice against stupid people who want to run my country. Color/race/creed do not come into my feelings.

[Dzldoc]

[Mona]

I replied on topic.

Really, someone go read it. There are two posts, both on Atheism and whatnot. I want to talk.

[Dzldoc]

I replied on topic.

Really, someone go read it. There are two posts, both on Atheism and whatnot. I want to talk.

You know I'm pokin' fun right?

[Mona]

You know I'm pokin' fun right?

Yeah, I know.

Still...

[~tangerine~]

Reagan was a damn good president. Bush has blown.

What's your point? And how pray tell did the Republicans get us into this? You honestly think it's all the Republicans fault? Are you serious?

Where did I say Bush has done anything right? Where did I show outright support of McCain?

You have me all wrong Tangerine...

What does his education from 50 years ago have to do with anything at this point in his life? It's entirely irrelevant.

As far as Obama keepng his cool, not from what I saw from the last debate. He visibly looked shaken up after McCain went heavy on the offensive.

And you said I missed your point?

I'm saying that people, in general (not just you) should be voting for only two things right now and thats the economy and the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Beliefs on God have to wait until those messes are resolved and cleaned up, otherwise we don't have a country period. That's all I'm saying. Palin's God-issues should be a non-topic right now, something the Democrats should want (they have to focus on the economy to win).

I AM over it. I knew he wasn't going to get on the ballot all along. It was outright obvious. But that doesn't mean he wasn't the best choice. Instead we got this

Hurray for America...

PS: What's with the "lol" after every five sentences or so?

The only conclusion i can make from your posts is that you don't want another term of the Bush Administration, but you are uncertain on who to vote for. Well if this is the case, since you diss Obama, but say you aren't for McCain either, then let this help you decide. If McCain has voted with Bush most of the time, that is because he thinks very much in the same way as Bush. That is what you can expect from a 72 year old man. He isn't going to change his way of thinking. As for his Education record, it's a good measure of his level of intelligence. If he ranked somewhere in the middle, i might cut him a little slack. But he was one of the worst. Says alot to me. If you are in college now, you should understand the feeling of "pride" you get when you get good grades. You either get good grades from being smart or studying hard. McCain didn't rate in either category. He is not a "thinker" imo. Obama is and look at the people Obama is surrounding himself with. That says alot about who will be assisting Obama/Biden in bailing our country out of the Recession Bush has put us in.

I think i have a great deal at stake being a single mom with no help from a daddy. The Economy is my biggest issue. I have no faith in anything McCain or Palin will do, i give Obama much better odds of tackling our country's problems. So do a great number of others as evidenced by what i hear on CNN, George S. and Meet the Press. lol, lol, lol....i like to say that, sorry.

................................................................................

.....................................

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag...-taxpayers.html

Who pays for Sarah Palin's kid's travel expenses? Taxpayers

First, the Republican Party spends $150,000 to outfit Gov. Sarah Palin and her entire family for the campaign trail.

Now we find out that over $20,000 for her children's travel expenses were billed to the state of Alaska since she's been governor.

Is there no end to this self-proclaimed hockey mom's expensive celebrity lifestyle?

Associated Press reports that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin charged the state for her children's travels to official business events. Even if the children were not invited, Palin would often ask to bring them.

According to MSNBC, "She said any event she can take her kids to is an event she tries to attend," said Jennifer McCarthy, who helped organize a June 2007 Family Day Celebration picnic in Ketchikan that Piper Palin attended with her parents.

The charges reportedly included costs for hotels and commercial flights for her three daughters to join Gov Palin to watch their father compete in a snowmobile race. Click here to see her daughters waving the flag at the race.

Oh, and there was also a little matter about a 2007 trip to New York, where the governor attended a five-hour women's leadership conference. Plane tickets from Anchorage to La Guardia Airport for her and Bristol at a cost of $1,385.11 were billed to the state, records show.

Sarah and Bristol shared a room for four nights at the $707.29-per-night Essex House hotel, which overlooks Central Park. The event's organizers said Palin asked if she could bring her daughter.

AP reports that all totaled, she’s charged Alaska $21,012 for her three daughters' 64 one-way and 12 round-trip commercial flights since she took office in December 2006.

In some other cases, she has charged the state for hotel rooms for the girls.

Would US taxpayers like to start picking up the clothing and travel tab for VP Palin's kids in 2009?

And her kids' kid?

Not in this economy! Most of us have already had to cancel family trips due to the dismal financial climate.

[~tangerine~]

You know I'm pokin' fun right?

Poking fun at me i bet

[Dzldoc]

Poking fun at me i bet

[wanna be drummer]

The only conclusion i can make from your posts is that you don't want another term of the Bush Administration, but you are uncertain on who to vote for.

That would be because I'm a Libertarian stuck with a conservative and a liberal party. Where have you been? I thought most of us knew that by now

Well if this is the case, since you diss Obama, but say you aren't for McCain either, then let this help you decide.

I already voted for Bob Barr via absentee ballot...

If McCain has voted with Bush most of the time, that is because he thinks very much in the same way as Bush. That is what you can expect from a 72 year old man. He isn't going to change his way of thinking.

And Obama has voted with his party 97% of the time (or something high like that, I forget exact numbers) and since I hate the Democratic Party, that's a massive negative right there

As for his Education record, it's a good measure of his level of intelligence. If he ranked somewhere in the middle, i might cut him a little slack. But he was one of the worst. Says alot to me. If you are in college now, you should understand the feeling of "pride" you get when you get good grades. You either get good grades from being smart or studying hard. McCain didn't rate in either category. He is not a "thinker" imo. Obama is and look at the people Obama is surrounding himself with. That says alot about who will be assisting Obama/Biden in bailing our country out of the Recession Bush has put us in.

My Uncle Bill never even went to school after high school and he's one of the most intelligent men I've ever talked to about history, specifically in the fields of World War II, the (American) Civil War, and the Napoleonic era. My dad didn't go to college until he was around 27 and he only got a bachelor's degree after because he only went for two years. But he does things with computer programming that many of us can only dream of doing.

I couldn't care less about education that happened 20, 30, or even 50 years ago. Education does not measure intelligence. I see it first hand every day.

I think i have a great deal at stake being a single mom with no help from a daddy. The Economy is my biggest issue. I have no faith in anything McCain or Palin will do, i give Obama much better odds of tackling our country's problems.

That's perfectly fine and it is your right.

So do a great number of others as evidenced by what i hear on CNN, George S. and Meet the Press. lol, lol, lol....i like to say that, sorry.

My problrm is that we're so used to this two party system, we forget about the many other parties out there, each with their own ideas. This has become so engrained into our mindset that peopel can't accept anything outside of "liberal" or "conservative" and to me, that's abhorrent.

I voted mainly Libertarian with a sprinkling of Repub. and Dem. members in the government this year. I encourage anyone who is sick of the way this country has been run for the last century to vote third party, be it Green or Constitution or (especially!) Libertarian. Must seriously now, the two parties have torn us apart and we're facing the consequences now.

[Mary Hartman]

Getting some tangerine squeezings....

[Mary Hartman]

I replied on topic.

Really, someone go read it. There are two posts, both on Atheism and whatnot. I want to talk.

Don't worry about it. Doc is pretty cool, just don't rearrange his tools.

This place gets boring so chat along Just let me Suz or Tangerine know when this God person arrives. We need a meeting with him to find out what the republicans did with all our money. I already know what Obama did with it. Adverts to the extreme to do a little subtle brainwashing of his own.