The Athiest thread

[Suz]

i wasn't suggesting that it did - I don't know enough about quantum physics to argue sensibly - I was merely suggesting that positing that an intelligence started things is an even more unlikely answer as it then begs the question of who created the creator?

The 'God of the gaps' argument is not very strong anyway. just because we don't (currently) know the answer to something doesn't mean that the answer must be that God did it. I think it was Carl Sagan that said that any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic. In other words, show something like a video camera to someone in medieval times and you'd be thought to be a magician or maybe a God. We know better and know that there is a logical, scientific answer. Hopefully, one day, there will be a logical, scientific answer to what started the universe - it may be however, that we will never know. Maybe it was just too long ago, or the science involved is too complex for us to deduce, but just because we don't know doesn't mean that we have to say 'God did it' - sometimes we have to accept that we just don't know the answer, but we should never just give in and believe it was magic.

I like this post. I always wonder why there HAS to BE a creator??? Who cares? I know, I know- a lot of people do. Dude I feel like lighting a joint and looking at a lava lamp when I think about this.....here's the thing- to me religion is what is trying so hard to define everything, and the science is just the open, ongoing process. I feel kind of the same way about religion as the fundamentalists feel about science. It's fucking things up!!

BTW, I tried to go to my original post and edit out the "douchebag" reference, but it is apparently too late. Oh, well.

[Suz]

afaik, Roman catholicism accepts that evolution is true, again, as God's tools for creation. To my knowledge, The Church of England, or at least most of its adherents, also accept evolution. My wife is a devout Christian and a regular churchgoer and finds the creationist argument laughable, as do most people in the church that I know. It is really only in the USA that there is any real argument over this -

I know, isn't it CRAZY!!!???? I am so sick of those weirdos. You have no idea. Christ, if Obama weren't gonna win this thing, we could have had one of those nutjobs a heartbeat away!!! Think about it. Arrrrrrghhh.

.... Then there's the past eight years.... but nevermind, god was guiding W the whole way, right?

god help god

[Dzldoc]

What would Adam & Eve say if they were around today

Adam:

Eve:

[wanna be drummer]

I know, isn't it CRAZY!!!???? I am so sick of those weirdos. You have no idea. Christ, if Obama weren't gonna win this thing, we could have had one of those nutjobs a heartbeat away!!! Think about it. Arrrrrrghhh.

.... Then there's the past eight years.... but nevermind, god was guiding W the whole way, right?

god help god

First off, McCain is not really one of those crzy Christians...he's hardly religious at all.

Secondly, issues like Evolution and Creationism are hardly the worst of our worries. Given the state of the economy right now, I'd say they're near the bottom of the list in fact.

[~tangerine~]

First off, McCain is not really one of those crzy Christians...he's hardly religious at all.

Secondly, issues like Evolution and Creationism are hardly the worst of our worries. Given the state of the economy right now, I'd say they're near the bottom of the list in fact.

Exactly why the "out of touch with the needs of America" team of McStupid and what's her face would be another four years of detriment to our country. McCain would continue with pretty much the same policies that got us into this mess...

and Palin is "very" religious so if she becomes President Palin, we "are" in deeper trouble, because she believes God rules every thing.

[Mary Hartman]

The FACT that that there is no way to prove god exists is proof of the non-existence of a god.

"There has never been a god - there will never be a god - there is no god."

He just cannot seem to get that something not existing is proof. Perhaps I will put it to him a bit more cleverly. Shit in one hand and wish in another hand. See which gets full faster.. There you have it a full hand of doo doo and an empty hand of wishful thinking

[Suz]

First off, McCain is not really one of those crzy Christians...he's hardly religious at all.

Secondly, issues like Evolution and Creationism are hardly the worst of our worries. Given the state of the economy right now, I'd say they're near the bottom of the list in fact.

I meant Palin. And since god was on Bush's side......well, ya know, more o' the same is more than I can comprehend at this point.

[wanna be drummer]

Exactly why the "out of touch with the needs of America" team of McStupid and what's her face would be another four years of detriment to our country. McCain would continue with pretty much the same policies that got us into this mess...

McStupid? Thats new...

And Obama would get us out of this mess?

and Palin is "very" religious so if she becomes President Palin, we "are" in deeper trouble, because she believes God rules every thing.

Oh...my...god... who honestly cares about these petty social issues right now? The economy is in shambles and we could be facing a recession of epic proportions...and people are still concerned with God in schools?

Jesus Christ, if she makes those changes, then we'll change them later but for now who cares? The economy and the wars should really be the only things that matter a lot right now seeing as how those affect the lives of every single being in this country!!

[Mary Hartman]

Or McCain...easy enough.

[Nathan]

Oh...my...god... who honestly cares about these petty social issues right now? The economy is in shambles and we could be facing a recession of epic proportions...and people are still concerned with God in schools?

Jesus Christ, if she makes those changes, then we'll change them later but for now who cares? The economy and the wars should really be the only things that matter a lot right now seeing as how those affect the lives of every single being in this country!!

First off, this is an Atheist thread in which the subject is religion, so, in fact, the post about Palin's religious belifs is on topic.

Second (and I'm about to make Mary Hartman very proud of me, lol ), Palin cares. And that is a major problem, regardless of our Economy.

Of course that's in the dumps and of course it's our main issue.

But I'm sorry... the fact that Palin believes that Creation (which is based on nothing more then the Bible) should be taught alongside (or, indeed, in place of) Evolution (based on actual, seen, and proven evidence found using the Scientific Method) is extremely worrying, especially when education in this country is as bad as it is.

Education is supposed to make people smarter, not dumber. And our Education System is in horrible shape. By introducing Creation (a stupid, unproven, and untested fantasy) into the school system, you are effectively making it worse.

Despite the Economy being our number 1 issue, Education should be up there in the top 5 and something we should all consider when voting.

[Mary Hartman]

First off, this is an Atheist thread in which the subject is religion, so, in fact, the post about Palin's religious belifs is on topic.

Second (and I'm about to make Mary Hartman very proud of me, lol ), Palin cares. And that is a major problem, regardless of our Economy.

Of course that's in the dumps and of course it's our main issue.

But I'm sorry... the fact that Palin believes that Creation (which is based on nothing more then the Bible) should be taught alongside (or, indeed, in place of) Evolution (based on actual, seen, and proven evidence found using the Scientific Method) is extremely worrying, especially when education in this country is as bad as it is.

Education is supposed to make people smarter, not dumber. And our Education System is in horrible shape. By introducing Creation (a stupid, unproven, and untested fantasy) into the school system, you are effectively making it worse.

Despite the Economy being our number 1 issue, Education should be up there in the top 5 and something we should all consider when voting.

Like I said wish in one hand then

[shnflacwav]

Exactly why the "out of touch with the needs of America" team of McStupid and what's her face would be another four years of detriment to our country. McCain would continue with pretty much the same policies that got us into this mess...

and Palin is "very" religious so if she becomes President Palin, we "are" in deeper trouble, because she believes God rules every thing.

First, how about showing some respect? McCain has served this country for many years. Just because you disagree with him doesn't really justify you calling him stupid.

Secondly, we as a country would not be in deeper trouble if Palin becomes President as a result of her belief God rules everything. We would be in deeper trouble due to her lack of experience and exposure national issues.

[Nathan]

Like I said wish in one hand then

In this case, I would agree. You already know, as does everyone else, that I believe in God.

But I also accept Evolution because... duh... it's been all but proven. You are stupid-as-hell if you deny Evolution. Creation my ass... first off, the Earth is hundreds of millions (if not several billion... I wouldn't know for sure) years older then 6,000. And let's be honest... Dinosaurs died way over 64 million years ago. If the Earth is 6,000 years old, then how did Dinosaurs die +64,000,000 years ago, as aging of found dinosaur fossils has proven?

And Palin wants Creationism taught in schools?

If she's that stupid, how can we trust her being so close to the Presidency?

I might have actually trusted McCain at one point, but then he chose Palin, and now I wonder about how well he can make other choices, because that was absolutely the worst choice I think any presidential candidate has ever made in the history of this country.

However, this thread is not about the upcoming election, but Atheist and Theism. Perhaps we should stick to that?

[wanna be drummer]

First off, this is an Atheist thread in which the subject is religion, so, in fact, the post about Palin's religious belifs is on topic.

Never said it wasn't on topic

Second (and I'm about to make Mary Hartman very proud of me, lol ), Palin cares. And that is a major problem, regardless of our Economy.

Of course that's in the dumps and of course it's our main issue.

But I'm sorry... the fact that Palin believes that Creation (which is based on nothing more then the Bible) should be taught alongside (or, indeed, in place of) Evolution (based on actual, seen, and proven evidence found using the Scientific Method) is extremely worrying, especially when education in this country is as bad as it is.

She would never get a law about Creationism passed, I can assure you. So that doesn't really matter to me. However stupid she is, that sort of thing does not bother me if she can't do anyhing about it.

Education is supposed to make people smarter, not dumber. And our Education System is in horrible shape. By introducing Creation (a stupid, unproven, and untested fantasy) into the school system, you are effectively making it worse.

Again, she couldn't. Besides, that's all assuming McCain dies in office. He himself would definitely never allow that to happen.

Oh, and I agree that education here blows

Despite the Economy being our number 1 issue, Education should be up there in the top 5 and something we should all consider when voting.

I agree that education is in the top five. But right now the Top Two (Iraq, economy) are so far ahead of everything else I can't believe that people even bother with such subtleties

[Mary Hartman]

First, how about showing some respect? McCain has served this country for many years. Just because you disagree with him doesn't really justify you calling him stupid.

Secondly, we as a country would not be in deeper trouble if Palin becomes President as a result of her belief God rules everything. We would be in deeper trouble due to her lack of experience and exposure national issues.

I refuse to respect war mongers. It's about that easy, and I will NOT feel guilty for it either

[shnflacwav]

I refuse to respect war mongers. It's about that easy, and I will NOT feel guilty for it either

Well, I wasn't talking to you. Maybe you should go back to the hospital and tell them they haven't finished making you well.

[wanna be drummer]

I refuse to respect war mongers. It's about that easy, and I will NOT feel guilty for it either

Why is he a war monger?

[Mary Hartman]

Well, I wasn't talking to you. Maybe you should go back to the hospital and tell them they haven't finished making you well.

Highly unlikely. I think you attacked someone who is a very nice person. Sooooo it doesn't matter if you were talking to me or not.

Flame and crash.

[shnflacwav]

Highly unlikely. I think you attacked someone who is a very nice person. Sooooo it doesn't matter if you were talking to me or not.

Flame and crash.

Asking someone to show some respect was an attack? You really are a dumb twit.

Butt out.

Flame and crash.

[Mary Hartman]

Asking someone to show some respect was an attack? You really are a dumb twit.

Butt out.

Flame and crash.

I believe you called me a dumb twit, said I should go back to a hospital and attacked tangerine too.

Highly unlikely I will butt out or you will get any respect

[shnflacwav]

I believe you called me a dumb twit, said I should go back to a hospital and attacked tangerine too.

Highly unlikely I will butt out or you will get any respect

Tangerine was attacked? You really are delusional. Asking someone to show some respect is not an attack.

[Mary Hartman]

Tangerine was attacked? You really are delusional. Asking someone to show some respect is not an attack.

Respect isn't handed to you on a silver platter...besides shouldn't you be burning an ABBA disc on MEMOREX or something

[~tangerine~]

McStupid? Thats new...

And Obama would get us out of this mess?

Oh...my...god... who honestly cares about these petty social issues right now? The economy is in shambles and we could be facing a recession of epic proportions...and people are still concerned with God in schools?

Jesus Christ, if she makes those changes, then we'll change them later but for now who cares? The economy and the wars should really be the only things that matter a lot right now seeing as how those affect the lives of every single being in this country!!

You miss my point (as usual). One...i have zero faith in McCain fixing anything, and much greater faith in Obama. This mess is compliments of the Republican Administration under Stupid GWB. I don't think McCain is too much brighter and i definitely don't think he really cares, or he would have picked a more responsible Vice Presidential running mate. I have watched the debates, followed this election on CNN and the likes (Fox news should be taken off the air for the trash they report), and i am making an "informed" decision.

On to Palin, I don't give a hoot about God in schools, blah blah blah, but i believe whole heartidly that Palin cares and will make that a priority on HER AGENDA. She wants to run our country, and run it her way, and further into the grave. I don't want a religious nut in such a high position. My point, so i don't seem evasive, Palin wants power to run things her way. She knows nothing about fixing this economy. She knows nothing about war and foreign relations. She will use this position to further her personal crusade. I won't elaborate further because I already know all about Palin. Read my posts since i started contributing to these threads. Everything i have said and every article i have linked/posted about her is more than enough information for you to understand my feelings about her. Read my links about flip flop McCain if you think he has any clue. You will see why i think he is stupid. Just like Bush...stupid. Stupid people should not be politians.

Yes, Obama will make changes for the better for our country, despite the horrible state of things the Republicans have done to us. It will be a challenge, and he will rise to the occasion, in large part because he will appoint intelligent/competent people to positions in his cabinet. That will be the change our country so desperately needs.

[wanna be drummer]

You miss my point (as usual).

When have ever missed your point?

I'll get back to this later

One...i have zero faith in McCain fixing anything, and much greater faith in Obama. This mess is compliments of the Republican Administration under Stupid GWB. I don't think McCain is too much brighter and i definitely don't think he really cares, or he would have picked a more responsible Vice Presidential running mate. I have watched the debates, followed this election on CNN and the likes (Fox news should be taken off the air for the trash they report), and i am making an "informed" decision.

No, I don't think McCain can fix the economy. That being said, I also think Ron Paul was the onloy candidate who could. But to simply cast blame for this disaster on the "Republican Administration" is simply incorrect. We've been heading in this direction for a while.

On to Palin, I don't give a hoot about God in schools, blah blah blah, but i believe whole heartidly that Palin cares and will make that a priority on HER AGENDA.

So you do care. If you didn't care, then you wouldn't it being on her agenda...which she couldn't pass anyways since the Democrats own Congress...

She wants to run our country, and run it her way, and further into the grave. I don't want a religious nut in such a high position. My point, so i don't seem evasive, Palin wants power to run things her way. She knows nothing about fixing this economy. She knows nothing about war and foreign relations. She will use this position to further her personal crusade. I won't elaborate further because I already know all about Palin. Read my posts since i started contributing to these threads. Everything i have said and every article i have linked/posted about her is more than enough information for you to understand my feelings about her. Read my links about flip flop McCain if you think he has any clue. You will see why i think he is stupid.

I agree, she can't help us.

Just like Bush...stupid. Stupid people should not be politians.

And yet Obama found a way to be the next president...

Yes, Obama will make changes for the better for our country, despite the horrible state of things the Republicans have done to us. It will be a challenge, and he will rise to the occasion, in large part because he will appoint intelligent/competent people to positions in his cabinet. That will be the change our country so desperately needs.

Oh come on. What is his plan? No one has a real plan to fix this mess because none of the candidates are economically-trained as they should have been. McCain is all about foreign policy and Obama is simply charismatic, but neither one really knows how to fix the economy in four years. The result of stupid people in power in the last century is finally going to crash down on this country and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

I seem to understand what youre saying. So where was this point I missed?

[~tangerine~]

First, how about showing some respect? McCain has served this country for many years. Just because you disagree with him doesn't really justify you calling him stupid.

Secondly, we as a country would not be in deeper trouble if Palin becomes President as a result of her belief God rules everything. We would be in deeper trouble due to her lack of experience and exposure national issues.

I have been calling McCain names for quite some time now, i'm not planning on stopping any time soon. I will show him respect if he backs out of this race, however.

If you saw the last Obama/McCain debate you might have noticed a huge lack of respect on McCain's part. I think the topper was when he called Obama "that one". Just plain low class to me. If you don't understand my position/feelings on McCain go back and bore yourself with my posts and links about his character...and other things about him i just don't like. I call him stupid because he doesn't impress me...and since he voted 90%, (lol, have we heard that line enough yet) of the time with Stupid Bush, i think calling him Stupid is in order. I am not one of McCains so called "friends". I don't owe him anything, and his long career has helped make my life more difficult along with the many others feeling the pain of our country's problems.

Again, read why i dislike Palin. We would be in trouble for every thing she stands for, imho. Her religious beliefs are what drives her, so that is what makes my comment relevant. Reminder: Palin told a church full of school children "it's God's will that we are in Iraq". Clueless....

Wake up call, Palin, it was Bush jr. wanting revenge for his daddy.

I agree with you, we would be in deeper trouble if Palin runs our country because she is stupid and self-serving and egomanical and stupid.