Jarlaxle 56 Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Until we find any other planets that really matter to us, of course we're going to hold this "Planetism" (as you call it) way of thinking. Well we need to get cracking then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tangerine~ Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 It's all good, we should respect others beliefs or non beliefs. An atheist's creed I believe in time, matter, and energy, which make up the whole of the world. I believe in reason, evidence and the human mind, the only tools we have; they are the product of natural forces in a majestic but impersonal universe, grander and richer than we can imagine, a source of endless opportunities for discovery. I believe in the power of doubt; I do not seek out reassurances, but embrace the question, and strive to challenge my own beliefs. I accept human mortality. We have but one life, brief and full of struggle, leavened with love and community, learning and exploration, beauty and the creation of new life, new art, and new ideas. I rejoice in this life that I have, and in the grandeur of a world that preceded me, and an earth that will abide without me. Excellent summary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tangerine~ Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I don't get why people think that someone who doesn't believe in god (s) doesn't see the beauty in the world. Why is that? We experience love, joy,beauty, wonder like anyone else. I personally don't associate those things with a diety. Why is that so hard to grasp? I didn't know that people think this about atheists. If they do then they are just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 It's all good, we should respect others beliefs or non beliefs. An atheist's creed I believe in time, matter, and energy, which make up the whole of the world. I believe in reason, evidence and the human mind, the only tools we have; they are the product of natural forces in a majestic but impersonal universe, grander and richer than we can imagine, a source of endless opportunities for discovery. I believe in the power of doubt; I do not seek out reassurances, but embrace the question, and strive to challenge my own beliefs. I accept human mortality. We have but one life, brief and full of struggle, leavened with love and community, learning and exploration, beauty and the creation of new life, new art, and new ideas. I rejoice in this life that I have, and in the grandeur of a world that preceded me, and an earth that will abide without me. Thank you sir.... An Atheist's Creed I believe in a purely material universe that conforms to naturalistic laws and principles. I believe that the life we have is the only one we will have, that the mind and consciousness are inseparable from the brain, that we cease to exist in any conscious form when we die, and that it is therefore incumbent on us to enable each person to live their one life to the fullest. I believe in the power of science and reason and rationality to further deepen our understanding of everything around us and to eventually overcome superstition and erase the petty divisions sown by religion, race, ethnicity, and nationality. I am in awe of the beauty, vastness, and complexity of nature and the universe, and the fact that all arose purely by the working of natural laws. I believe in the power of ideals such as peace and justice and shared humanity to inspire us to create a free and just world. I believe in kindness, love, and the human spirit and their ability to overcome challenges and adversity and to create a better world. I believe in the necessity for credible and objective evidence to sustain any belief and thus deny, because of the absence of such evidence, the existence of each and every aspect of the supernatural. I refuse to bow, prostrate myself, or otherwise cower before the deities of any religion. I am neither tempted by the fiction of heaven or any other form of eternal life nor fearful of the fiction of hell. I choose to live the dignified and exhilarating life of a free-thinker, able to go wherever knowledge and curiosity takes me, without fear of contradicting any dogma. And I really dont think most Atheists take these things to heart. It's just what is to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I don't get why people think that someone who doesn't believe in god (s) doesn't see the beauty in the world. Why is that? We experience love, joy,beauty, wonder like anyone else. I personally don't associate those things with a diety. Why is that so hard to grasp? The overwhelming majority of people don't think this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 This is off topic, but I (barely) remember the show Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman from when I was a kid. I loved her damn hair. The only thing that sticks out as far as plot was one when she was freaking out about Steve McQueen. I would love to see that show again because I remember my mom really enjoying it. Carry on, you godless heathen!!!!!! The thing is, without the bible thumpers we wouldn't be godless heathens and I further submit that there have been a few times that being a godless heathen has worked to my advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarlaxle 56 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I find the whole "I do not believe in God" thing to be a little mystifying personally. What is "God"? The Christian God? Are you Atheistic towards the Greek, Egyptian, and Norse deities as well? What about the general idea of some kind of "higher being" with no characteristics other than that they created everything ever? There are so many different ideas of what "God" is. There's no evidence for any kind of creationism, so why would I give it credence by saying that I avidly disbelieve in it? There's nothing to refute! Because there's no evidence in the first place! If someone were to give me some hard evidence, like "Because of X, the Christian God exists". Then maybe I could refute it in some way. Atheists are giving religion more credence by calling themselves Atheists! Say you're non-religious and don't believe in creationism! Or that you're a humanist or something! This whole debate between Theism and Atheism is ridiculous! Atheists say God doesn't exist because there is no evidence, Theists say God exists because there is no evidence against it. But there can't be any evidence against it because there is absolutely nothing to disprove! And vice-versa, how is someone supposed to prove that an omniscient overlord of the universe exists or doesn't exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 This is off topic, but I (barely) remember the show Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman from when I was a kid. I loved her damn hair. The only thing that sticks out as far as plot was one when she was freaking out about Steve McQueen. I would love to see that show again because I remember my mom really enjoying it. Carry on, you godless heathen!!!!!! The thing is, without the bible thumpers we wouldn't be godless heathens and I further submit that there have been a few times that being a godless heathen has worked to my advantage Some godless heathen has to to it In my opinion the term Atheist shouldn't even exist. And if it weren't for the dogma........it's an empirical fact. I think that was a compliment of sorts and thank you. To be honest with you I was too busy to watch Mary Hartman Mary Hartman but maybe this will help you or your mom It's so stupid it's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarlaxle 56 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 In my opinion the term Atheist shouldn't even exist. We agree on something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 We agree on something... It's a good start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 This is off topic, but I (barely) remember the show Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman from when I was a kid. I loved her damn hair. My sister used to have hair exactly like that,same color and all. .....and her name Is Mary. Guess what we used to call her when we were teasing her...... Back to topic:I think there's a LOT more "athiests" in the world than people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I didn't know that people think this about atheists. If they do then they are just stupid. That's because they don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 We agree on something... I actually agree, as well. I called the thread that to get a good discussion going and boy you guys are blowing me away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 My sister used to have hair exactly like that,same color and all. .....and her name Is Mary. Guess what we used to call her when we were teasing her...... Back to topic:I think there's a LOT more "athiests" in the world than people think. Handlebar head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Handlebar head? Among other things...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 I didn't know that people think this about atheists. If they do then they are just stupid. Well I sure as hell don't think about math and science when I'm having sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Among other things...... That's pretty mean. Ok...what did you call her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 What I really wanna know is why Keith Richards needs defending! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 What I really wanna know is why Keith Richards needs defending! You'd be suprised........or maybe not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 (Part 1) I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that you have utterly and completely missed my point, something that seems to happen to me a lot on this forum. Like I said 'God' is not a fact. It's a concept. At least you can see that, showing there's hope for you yet. There's hope for me? And what exactly do you mean by that? I hate to say it, but you're proving my example of the proselytizing Atheist. Do you know that you sound exactly like the fanatical Christian? The only difference is, instead of vehemently trying to convince me that only Jesus can save my soul (which I believe is BS, by the way), you're vehemently trying to convince me that there is no god. So you are proof that fanatical, evangelical Atheists do exist. I would suggest your first statement 'Your Rabbi,' makes you believe what he wishes you to believe. Sort of like herding cattle now isn't it? I refuse to be herded like cattle. You have no idea how annoyed and insulted I am right now. I was trying to put the Jewish perspective into the discussion and your response is to say that I'm brainwashed? He is my Rabbi because he happens to be the Rabbi of the synagogue I belonged to. If I believed everything he told me I'd attend Jewish school, keep Kosher, keep the Sabbath, wear tzitzit, marry Jewish, etc, etc, etc. But except when I'm home or with my Dad (who is also Jewish clergy: my Dad is a Cantor, or religious musical leader of a synagogue... and you best watch what you say about him... I will not take anyone insulting any of my family lightly), I do NOT keep Kosher. At all times, I do NOT keep the sabbath (as in, I'll watch TV, I'll surf the web, I'll go driving, I'll spend money, etc, etc, etc). I attend a commuter college that is certainly not Jewish (Georgia Perimeter College, Dunwoody Campus), and when I transfer, I'll be transferring to a college whose emphasis is on the entertainment business (Full Sail University is one of the colleges I'm looking at) because I plan on getting into the recording industry, owning a record label, having my own (secular, non-religious) Rock and Blues band (inspired by Led Zeppelin, The Doors, Nirvana, and Pink Floyd, among others), and leading the war against the evil RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America). See how I live my own life, thank you very much? Athiests and Agnostics outnumber any ONE organized religion in America. But I wouldn't suggest attempting to herd them together. I do not have the figures to agree or disagree with you on this, but I refuse to believe it unless you can prove it. At the very least the numbers of Atheists equal the numbers of Theists on this planet. Or else you are utterly and completely ignoring religions that do NOT fall under "The Big 3." As far as Theism being here first, that is highly unlikely. Highly unlikely? The only reason the first humans didn't believe in God or in any gods is because they were too stupid to do anything beyond eating, sleeping, pooping, and screwing. They were apes, remember? Our ancestor's were apes (I'm NOT being sarcastic, BTW... I DO believe in Evolution, as I've said hundreds of times already). Once we started developing intelligence, one of the first things we did was to question why and how. That was the birth of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 (Part 2) I find your lack of reasoning is tainted by things which cannot be proven. I do however understand how if you are brainwashed all your life, you cannot change at this point. You would definitely look like a fool to all your associates. Back to the brainwashed bull? My associates? Are you for real? As far as the web site goes. It was chosen much the same as the bible was....it was written, so it has to be accepted as fact and that's that. What does this have to do with my comment on the site? I find believing these things to be morally incomprehensible for most religious people. That is not my issue, their morals are built on religion. Would you please explain why? Just because something is comforting does not make it so. I wont hide or apologize for being correct either. X=God X=Comfort that you wont die? X=Not getting tossed out of your congregation. This does NOT imply that X=fact. And you have utterly and completely ignored my explanation of "faith." These things may rightly be true in your peer groups.....according to them. However your peer groups aren't worldwide. How many centuries has your religion been here now? How many centuries has the world been here? And your stating that Theism was here first? Bring me your evidence on that. I don't know exactly how long Judaism has been around (although I'll bet it's longer then you think), but I do know it's oldest Monotheistic religion in existence. That said, it is one of the younger religions because Polytheism (belief in many gods) came first. Bring me your evidence that Atheism came first. I say that not so I can duck out of what you asked me, but because I would think that anyone who went to school and took their history classes would know that I'm right. Theism is more believed among the very intelligent elite? I think I just discovered something about you. Do you consider yourself a member of this "very intelligent elite?" If so, then I think it's you who's brainwashed, Mary. Nope. Theres nearly 7 Billion persons on this Earth between 2-3 Billion believe in some sort of god. 2-3 billion believe in one god. That number, however, utterly and completely ignores pagan, wiccan, and other polytheistic religions. I don't have anything against you really. I could tell you a story that would blow your mind. Please... do tell (the story, that is)... Do 'believe' this is all just discussion. And many Atheists simply wont discuss it at all. I do feel this is changing. Please don't get me wrong, Mary. I mean no disrespect to you. You believe what you believe and that's fine by me. But your response to me reminds of fanatical Christians. Absolute refusal to keep an open mind and see the legitimacy in all beliefs, no matter what you believe. It seems to me that you are trying very hard to convert me over to Atheism, much like a fanatical Christian would. You seem to be almost a preacher of sorts. You are my perfect example that not only is Atheism a religion, but that there are fanatical, evangelical Atheists, and you are, without a doubt, one of them. Suz... I must apologize to you. In my earlier posts, I intimated that I think Atheists don't and/or can't find beauty in life. I do NOT believe that. I'm sure you get much pleasure out of these and other things, as well. For me, it's God that makes them beautiful. That does not mean I think that in order to find these things beautiful, you have to believe in God. So I apologize for making it seem like I did believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I like you Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 (Part 2) Back to the brainwashed bull? My associates? Are you for real? What does this have to do with my comment on the site? >The Bible was written and accepted as factual by nearly 1/3 of the Earths population, so accepting the web site as an all knowing, all creating existence on this Earth is a far stretch for you is it? WHY? Would you please explain why? And you have utterly and completely ignored my explanation of "faith." >When I choose to ignore you I will let you know. I don't know exactly how long Judaism has been around (although I'll bet it's longer then you think), but I do know it's oldest Monotheistic religion in existence. That said, it is one of the younger religions because Polytheism (belief in many gods) came first. Bring me your evidence that Atheism came first. I say that not so I can duck out of what you asked me, but because I would think that anyone who went to school and took their history classes would know that I'm right. >IOW your God? Gotcha I think I just discovered something about you. Do you consider yourself a member of this "very intelligent elite?" If so, then I think it's you who's brainwashed, Mary. >I never said that. I am under the inclination to feel I do not accept ALL history as factual either. 2-3 billion believe in one god. That number, however, utterly and completely ignores pagan, wiccan, and other polytheistic religions. >That idea is truly REMARKABLE. In other words all of them are mutually exclusive? Please... do tell (the story, that is)... Please don't get me wrong, Mary. I mean no disrespect to you. You believe what you believe and that's fine by me. >What makes you think you were ever going to divert me into believing in the SUPERNATURAL anyhow? You should watch more magicians. I have no bad feelings for you though. BTW evolution is factual, it is not my issue you cannot trust it. But your response to me reminds of fanatical Christians. Absolute refusal to keep an open mind and see the legitimacy in all beliefs, no matter what you believe. It seems to me that you are trying very hard to convert me over to Atheism, much like a fanatical Christian would. You seem to be almost a preacher of sorts. You are my perfect example that not only is Atheism a religion, but that there are fanatical, evangelical Atheists, and you are, without a doubt, one of them. >Facts are not fanatical. But belief in voodoo and such is. Suz... I must apologize to you. In my earlier posts, I intimated that I think Atheists don't and/or can't find beauty in life. I do NOT believe that. I'm sure you get much pleasure out of these and other things, as well. For me, it's God that makes them beautiful. That does not mean I think that in order to find these things beautiful, you have to believe in God. So I apologize for making it seem like I did believe that. Sounds wishy washy to me. You can rearrange another persons words all you wish to. But if you feel that makes what you say factual you are far from wrong. Saying that all the first lesser evolved on earth can do nothing more than wipe their arse is like saying they were stupid? That's downright preposterous. Now your apologizing? For what? 1. I never claimed anyone is "stupid." Many may be idiotic, and your fast proving this is the case. But I was staking a claim that persons who do not think things through instead of following the majority are not free thinkers. I have many faults, and am far from perfect and fortunately I am willing to accept it. If you come up with proof of your "God" get back to me ASAP. He just doesn't exist like all the proceeding ones. Peace...Nathan. I respect you way more than someone who wouldn't stand up for their beliefs. That you can trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 (Part 1) I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that you have utterly and completely missed my point, something that seems to happen to me a lot on this forum. There's hope for me? And what exactly do you mean by that? I hate to say it, but you're proving my example of the proselytizing Atheist. Do you know that you sound exactly like the fanatical Christian? The only difference is, instead of vehemently trying to convince me that only Jesus can save my soul (which I believe is BS, by the way), you're vehemently trying to convince me that there is no god. So you are proof that fanatical, evangelical Atheists do exist. You have no idea how annoyed and insulted I am right now. I was trying to put the Jewish perspective into the discussion and your response is to say that I'm brainwashed? He is my Rabbi because he happens to be the Rabbi of the synagogue I belonged to. If I believed everything he told me I'd attend Jewish school, keep Kosher, keep the Sabbath, wear tzitzit, marry Jewish, etc, etc, etc. But except when I'm home or with my Dad (who is also Jewish clergy: my Dad is a Cantor, or religious musical leader of a synagogue... and you best watch what you say about him... I will not take anyone insulting any of my family lightly), I do NOT keep Kosher. At all times, I do NOT keep the sabbath (as in, I'll watch TV, I'll surf the web, I'll go driving, I'll spend money, etc, etc, etc). I attend a commuter college that is certainly not Jewish (Georgia Perimeter College, Dunwoody Campus), and when I transfer, I'll be transferring to a college whose emphasis is on the entertainment business (Full Sail University is one of the colleges I'm looking at) because I plan on getting into the recording industry, owning a record label, having my own (secular, non-religious) Rock and Blues band (inspired by Led Zeppelin, The Doors, Nirvana, and Pink Floyd, among others), and leading the war against the evil RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America). See how I live my own life, thank you very much? I do not have the figures to agree or disagree with you on this, but I refuse to believe it unless you can prove it. At the very least the numbers of Atheists equal the numbers of Theists on this planet. Or else you are utterly and completely ignoring religions that do NOT fall under "The Big 3." Highly unlikely? The only reason the first humans didn't believe in God or in any gods is because they were too stupid to do anything beyond eating, sleeping, pooping, and screwing. They were apes, remember? Our ancestor's were apes (I'm NOT being sarcastic, BTW... I DO believe in Evolution, as I've said hundreds of times already). Once we started developing intelligence, one of the first things we did was to question why and how. That was the birth of religion. >In other words man created god? Don't feel insulted though. At least I have that straight in my head at this point about how you feel. Believe it or not I used to think just about like you. Threatening me with you or your family has me a bit confused and insulted though, I do admit. I am doing my very best to be civil and courteous. I respect your dad and family Nathan. I am just entering how I feel. And what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 To Hell with all this B***S*** the Earth is just one big pitre dish and we're just specimens of these guys! v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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