ninelives Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I see nothing whatsoever the matter in engaging in a bit of revisionist history in regards to resequencing In Through the Out Door but in all honesty I like it just the way it is. I also never had a problem with it (bad reviews or not) when it was initially released. I love it too (just as it is) - it was Zep moving in a different direction but that's what they always did with each album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joao Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't know. The stuff that is on Coda is on Coda for a reason. It wasn't good enough to make the cut. I've heard that excuse more than once and I strongly disagree, sure sometimes the outtakes or released b-sides aren't good, but that isn't true for all of them, sometimes you find real gems or just plain good songs. Besides, I've heard a lot of bands speaking about a particular hit or a very popular song among the fans saying that it almost didn't make to the album or something like that so... Well, I've also heard bad things about coda like "it isn't led zeppelin man" but besides some of the filler it has, I've found really good songs like "We're Gonna Groove", "Poor Tom", "Wearing And Tearing", and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZepFanatic Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 My only problem with Coda is the vast amount of post-1980 studio magic added to it by Jimmy...otherwise I like the songs just fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 ITTOD is kind of like Houses of the Holy Part Deux in the sense that you can tell certain songs were just fun genre experiments to show off their versatility. But it needed more bread and butter to lock it down as a hard rock album. (Kind of like how Zep III has rockers like Immigrant Song and Celebration Day to balance out the folk.) In the Evening being the only rocker, followed by I'm Gonna Crawl which is kind of the least distinguished in the "modal blues" trilogy following Since I've Been Loving You and Tea for One. Even the 3 songs on Coda lack a certain bite. Darlene has the boogie woogie 50s piano end to it the way The Ocean does. Ozone Baby is a very pop rock kind of tune, almost a precursor to Robert Plant's 80s solo material. The only good thing about that track is JPJ's 8-string bass (or it sounds like he's using it). Wearing and Tearing would have helped give the album a little more bite, but still not enough. It's just, kind of lacking angst. Jimmy Page was the main source of "angst" and since he was kind of along for the ride on ITTOD, you've got a pretty lighthearted album. If you wanted to blend tracks you'd really want to merge Presence with ITTOD since Presence is kind of the opposite of ITTOD. It's almost all angst and no keyboards at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I've heard that excuse more than once and I strongly disagree, sure sometimes the outtakes or released b-sides aren't good, but that isn't true for all of them, sometimes you find real gems or just plain good songs. Besides, I've heard a lot of bands speaking about a particular hit or a very popular song among the fans saying that it almost didn't make to the album or something like that so... I agree. I've found some artists' b-sides to be some of their best material. A prime example of this is R.E.M. Another one would be Bob Dylan, even though the latest installment in his Bootleg Series (Telltale Signs) is mostly outtakes and reworked material it shows just how strong his stuff is that was initially bound for the cutting room floor. Some songs are also not included simply because they don't fit the "feel" of an album so it's not always that the artist in question thought they were "bad" songs. As Peter Buck wrote in the liner notes to R.E.M.'s b-side, outtakes, etc. collection Dead Letter Office: "A little bit of uh-huh and a whole lot of oh yeah." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I keep reading that In the Evening is the only "rocker" on In Through the Out Door. I guess it depends on how you define "rocker" but what exactly are Southbound Saurez, Fool In The Rain, Hot Dog and Carouselambra, funeral dirges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 ITTOD is kind of like Houses of the Holy Part Deux in the sense that you can tell certain songs were just fun genre experiments to show off their versatility. But it needed more bread and butter to lock it down as a hard rock album. (Kind of like how Zep III has rockers like Immigrant Song and Celebration Day to balance out the folk.) In the Evening being the only rocker, followed by I'm Gonna Crawl which is kind of the least distinguished in the "modal blues" trilogy following Since I've Been Loving You and Tea for One. Even the 3 songs on Coda lack a certain bite. Darlene has the boogie woogie 50s piano end to it the way The Ocean does. Ozone Baby is a very pop rock kind of tune, almost a precursor to Robert Plant's 80s solo material. The only good thing about that track is JPJ's 8-string bass (or it sounds like he's using it). Wearing and Tearing would have helped give the album a little more bite, but still not enough. It's just, kind of lacking angst. Jimmy Page was the main source of "angst" and since he was kind of along for the ride on ITTOD, you've got a pretty lighthearted album. If you wanted to blend tracks you'd really want to merge Presence with ITTOD since Presence is kind of the opposite of ITTOD. It's almost all angst and no keyboards at all. But Zep weren't only about hard rock - they were always experimenting and not trying to do a part two of any song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 But Zep weren't only about hard rock - they were always experimenting and not trying to do a part two of any song. But most of their albums are well-balanced as far as the light and shade. It's only on Presence and ITTOD that things become more monochromatic. Also note that across both of these albums there is no acoustic guitar at all (except for a backing track in All My Love). I'm not saying they are bad albums, but taken as a singular musical statement, they lack the depth of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I'm not saying they are bad albums, but taken as a singular musical statement, they lack the depth of the others. Though Presence is definitely the more guitar oriented of the two, I don't think either of those records lack any depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Though Presence is definitely the more guitar oriented of the two, I don't think either of those records lack any depth. Although, you could say Presence is a real Page "Tour de Force" with all of the guitar, elements and layering he did on the album. I think Achilles Last Stand comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Though Presence is definitely the more guitar oriented of the two, I don't think either of those records lack any depth. I don't either. There's incredible depth to Presence even if it isn't contrasting in acoustic/electric songs. ITTOD has a lot of different feel to it throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I don't either. There's incredible depth to Presence even if it isn't contrasting in acoustic/electric songs. ITTOD has a lot of different feel to it throughout. There is so much depth on the two albums. To get back to ITTOD, one of the things that stands out is how well it ends. "I'm Gonna Crawl" is a perfect ending to the album and couldn't be done any better. There may be ending songs on their albums that are better but not placed as well as this. Only at the end and you know when it finishes it that this is their CODA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ZVCGwHfkw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I never thought In The Evening was a "rocker", it always struck me as more dance music than rock. I don't know why, I think the synth lines had something to do with it. Not dance like disco, but something with a little more rhythm to it. I daresay it's one of the few songs they did where you could dance to it if you wanted to. It had a very light feel to it, even though it wasn't really light. The song deserves more recognition, I think. In the Evening being the only rocker, followed by I'm Gonna Crawl which is kind of the least distinguished in the "modal blues" trilogy following Since I've Been Loving You and Tea for One. You know, I've always thought this. And for what it's worth, I don't think Tea For One or I'm Gonna Crawl get any kind of respect outside of the die-hard fans. Which sucks because they are just absolutely beautiful songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 There is so much depth on the two albums. To get back to ITTOD, one of the things that stands out is how well it ends. "I'm Gonna Crawl" is a perfect ending to the album and couldn't be done any better. There may be ending songs on their albums that are better but not placed as well as this. Only at the end and you know when it finishes it that this is their CODA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ZVCGwHfkw Oh absolutely concur on I'm Gonna Crawl being a perfect ending to the album on so many levels, sad as it turned out to really be the Coda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I never thought In The Evening was a "rocker", it always struck me as more dance music than rock. I don't know why, I think the synth lines had something to do with it. Not dance like disco, but something with a little more rhythm to it. I daresay it's one of the few songs they did where you could dance to it if you wanted to. It had a very light feel to it, even though it wasn't really light. The song deserves more recognition, I think. You know, I've always thought this. And for what it's worth, I don't think Tea For One or I'm Gonna Crawl get any kind of respect outside of the die-hard fans. Which sucks because they are just absolutely beautiful songs. Some of the most beautiful they've ever done along with Since I've Been Loving You and the live versions of Thank You (Blueberry Hill, BBC and L.A. 1972). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I never thought In The Evening was a "rocker", it always struck me as more dance music than rock. I don't know why, I think the synth lines had something to do with it. Not dance like disco, but something with a little more rhythm to it. I daresay it's one of the few songs they did where you could dance to it if you wanted to. It had a very light feel to it, even though it wasn't really light. The song deserves more recognition, I think. You know, I've always thought this. And for what it's worth, I don't think Tea For One or I'm Gonna Crawl get any kind of respect outside of the die-hard fans. Which sucks because they are just absolutely beautiful songs. I hear you on In the Evening having a "lighter" feel though to my ears, it doesn't really sound like dance music per se. But it's a great song and I've heard Robert sing it live on his own a few times and sounded great. I'm Gonna Crawl I think is my favorite song from ITTOD. Beautiful and powerful on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibh23 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 The thing that most bothers me about ITTOD - Apart from the cheesy keyboards is that "Fire" was never completed. Also, take notice that some of the material on Coda wasn't completed until after the release of In Through The Out Door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I can't say that anything about In Through the Out Door strikes me as "cheesey", much less the keyboards and I've been a diehard fan since the earlly 70s. Did people want Zeppelin to be a one note type band that never progressed or experimented with different sounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I can't say that anything about In Through the Out Door strikes me as "cheesey", much less the keyboards and I've been a diehard fan since the earlly 70s. Did people want Zeppelin to be a one note type band that never progressed or experimented with different sounds? I don't think they sound cheesy either. The album is a departure from Presence which was a departure from PG and so on. That's Zep. That's what makes them unique (well that and a whole host of other reasons of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SourceNRG Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I hear you on In the Evening having a "lighter" feel though to my ears, it doesn't really sound like dance music per se. But it's a great song and I've heard Robert sing it live on his own a few times and sounded great. I'm Gonna Crawl I think is my favorite song from ITTOD. Beautiful and powerful on so many levels. I agree about I'm Gonna Crawl....LOVE that song!!!!!!!!! Sharon PS---I do have to say that overall In Through the Out Door is my least fave Zep album...HOWEVER--that being said, that is because when you are comparing so many MASTERPIECE albums by one group, this is the one that pales BY COMPARISON to all the others (my opinion only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Yes, for other bands/groups, ITTOD would BE their masterpiece, if you follow me here!!! SO, while it may be my least fave/maybe not the masterpiece their other albums are, it STILL is a great album!! Again, my opinion only on all of this. I guess my 2 Zep faves are PG, and Presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpat Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think if Zep repackaged and re-released "In Through the Out Door," it would get the re-appraisal it deserves. I took the songs from "Coda" that were from the "In Through the Out Door" sessions and included them with the others,with a revised sequence. I think what emerges is a great, eclectic album. I give it 5-stars. Most importantly, it kicks off with three-rocking numbers. I think this remedies what was the problem with the original -- after "In the Evening," there really wasn't another hard rock number. Dude, I agree with you. Those songs would have beefed up the sound on the album, and would have shown a different light on certain ITTOD cuts (Fool, Southbound). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZepFanatic Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 For all of JP's bellyaching about ITTOD since its release, he never has mentioned that it's because of HIS OWN addition to horse that he was absent most of the time and that's why JPJ and Robert wrote nearly the whole damn thing together... I love the album, although I do wish they had been able to make the heavy rockin' album Jimmy said they were planning on before Bonham died... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchzep27 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If led zeppelin ever did rereleases like other bands have done, with outtakes and such, then i think it would be with alot of their albums. with this one, the outtakes of -fool in the rain and all my love are interesting sounding on the bootlegs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Servo Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Dude, I agree with you. Those songs would have beefed up the sound on the album, and would have shown a different light on certain ITTOD cuts (Fool, Southbound). Thanks! I guess we're the contrarians around here, at least on this point. My point is that ITtOD is very good, but could be even better, and get the recognition it deserves. I think the songs from Coda are very good, at least on the level of "Royal Orleans"...not quite on the level of HOfN, but still first-rate rockers. I wish Zep would re-release it in this form. We're all fans, and we are nostalgic for the original sequencings, but I am the middle of reading Stephen King's "The Stand" -- complete and uncut...or take movies like "The Wild Bunch"...why not do it that with album's that were underappreciated so that they could get a fresh appraisal? Two great examples that I mentioned earlier are The Clash's "Sandinista!" and the Stones' "Black and Blue." Pull the space-rock songs from "Sandinista!" out and put them together in the same order they appeared...leave the others together in the same order -- and you get a masterpiece! Take "Black and Blue," re-sequence it -- it's a very good album. Add "Slave" and "Worried about You" from those sessions and you get a five-star album! The Stones should def. re-release that way -- it's just begging for a serious re-appraisal. I don't think they still know what they had with that collection of songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZepFanatic Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The thing that most bothers me about ITTOD - Apart from the cheesy keyboards is that "Fire" was never completed. Also, take notice that some of the material on Coda wasn't completed until after the release of In Through The Out Door. Yeah I always thought Fire would have been a great addition to the album and toughened it up a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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