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Boleskinner

Page and Miles Davis

25 posts in this topic

I would have loved to seen a collaboration between Page and Miles Davis in the early 80s.

Imagine a dark soundtrack with Page on the synth guitar, a la DW2, and Davis playing muted atmospheric phrases in the background.

Davis had lost his lung power by the early 80s, but I think it could have been really interesting, with both channelling their dark side.

Does anyone know if Miles Davis and members of Zeppelin ever crossed paths? Or what he thought of them?

I'm a big fan of Davis and love his mid-70s fusion stuff, like Dark Magus and Agharta.

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Never directly crossed paths as far as I know. JPJ did remark once that he enjoyed the Sketches of Spain album.

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Yeah would have been good. Miles Davis did some really good stuff. Think there are a few others that would have been a good link-up. We have got what we have got. But i do have regrets because we could and maybe should have had more. Not Zep stuff by that. That we all know why and we do understand.

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I don't think Jimmy had enough Jazz knowledge to hang with Miles, no disrespect to Jimmy.  

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Although I love both Miles Davis & Led Zeppelin, I'm not so sure Davis would've been interested in a collaboration, he said that the Jimi Hendrix Experience sounded like "hillbillies" (on account of the group containing two white people), I'm not sure that 'white rock' was his thing. I suspect a collaboration with Ed Hazel might've been more likely.

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That would have been a sonically cool collaboration for sure, but  I have never read any mention of Zep or Page by Miles, ever.  Miles became more friendly towards rock players in the 80's.  Mike Stern played with him at that time and he was a fan of Page. I don't think having jazz knowledge would have mattered, as many of Miles' musicians in the 80's were not jazz musicians really at all. They were funk and rock players. I think although Miles was pretty vocal early on in his disdain for rock, he also paid attention to what was happening in the late 60's and adapted elements of the volume, energy and sonic textures to his music. He heard bands like Zeppelin, Sly, and Jeff Beck at Newport 69 and he incorporated some of those concepts in his music for sure. Bitches Brew is evidence of that influence. He liked Hendrix and there are some stories about them getting together and jamming , and even a possible collaboration with Gil Evans. Seems like they didn't have enough tome to work things out before Jimi died in Sep of 70. But yeah, something like Lucifer Rising or the DeathWish soundtrack with Miles would've been very cool!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mook said:

Although I love both Miles Davis & Led Zeppelin, I'm not so sure Davis would've been interested in a collaboration, he said that the Jimi Hendrix Experience sounded like "hillbillies" (on account of the group containing two white people), I'm not sure that 'white rock' was his thing. I suspect a collaboration with Ed Hazel might've been more likely.

Although he was interested in collaborating with Jimi. And as to his supposed aversion to white people he certainly used John Mcglaughlins services a lot.

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14 hours ago, babysquid said:

Although he was interested in collaborating with Jimi. And as to his supposed aversion to white people he certainly used John Mcglaughlins services a lot.

He did, but he was quoted as saying (regarding McLaughlin) that if anyone could find a black guitarist better than him, he would hire the black guitarist.

Having said that, it was a quote I read in his autobiography so it could've been said quite flippantly.

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I think Page could have played Miles fusion stuff no bother.

Davis fusion tended to be a modal vamp where he would play a chord and they would jam on that for like ten minutes; then he would hit a sus chord and they would go off again.

It's not like bebop or Coltrane's Giant Steps where there hurtling through chords every two seconds.

 Ironically, the white Bill Evans (piano) was probably one of the best musicians Davis ever played with and influenced him greatly with his classical approach to jazz and his use of fourths.

 

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2 hours ago, Mook said:

He did, but he was quoted as saying (regarding McLaughlin) that if anyone could find a black guitarist better than him, he would hire the black guitarist.

Having said that, it was a quote I read in his autobiography so it could've been said quite flippantly.

Yes you're quite right I had heard that. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think it was his retort in the context of others suggesting he should be using a black guitarist. Somehow Chick Corea, Joe Zanziwal, Dave holland and others slipped under the radar!

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1 hour ago, Boleskinner said:

I think Page could have played Miles fusion stuff no bother.

Davis fusion tended to be a modal vamp where he would play a chord and they would jam on that for like ten minutes; then he would hit a sus chord and they would go off again.

It's not like bebop or Coltrane's Giant Steps where there hurtling through chords every two seconds.

 Ironically, the white Bill Evans (piano) was probably one of the best musicians Davis ever played with and influenced him greatly with his classical approach to jazz and his use of fourths.

 

Exactly.

Not to mention Gil Evans, one of his closest friends, musical inspirations and allies. 

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3 hours ago, babysquid said:

Yes you're quite right I had heard that. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think it was his retort in the context of others suggesting he should be using a black guitarist. Somehow Chick Corea, Joe Zanziwal, Dave holland and others slipped under the radar!

No, I think you're 100% correct.

I don't believe Miles Davis had any issues working with white musicians if he considered them to be good enough. Whether he believed Page was good enough is open to conjecture although I would point out that a guitarist like John McLaughlin is in a different league to Jimmy Page, Page would be the first person to admit this & in fact went to McLaughlin for guitar lessons in the 60s.

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Page did not play jazz, so its a bit of a stretch right off the bat. I'm sure they could have ripped through a few 8 balls together like nobody's business though.:)

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2 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:

Page did not play jazz, so its a bit of a stretch right off the bat. I'm sure they could have ripped through a few 8 balls together like nobody's business though.:)

🙌

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On 2/1/2017 at 9:16 AM, Mook said:

Although I love both Miles Davis & Led Zeppelin, I'm not so sure Davis would've been interested in a collaboration, he said that the Jimi Hendrix Experience sounded like "hillbillies" (on account of the group containing two white people), I'm not sure that 'white rock' was his thing. I suspect a collaboration with Ed Hazel might've been more likely.

I agree. In fact, I think some of Hazel's playing, like on the Maggot Brain solo, is very Miles-inspired.  Miles loved Machine Gun by Hendrix, the idea of the guitar as living theatre, imitating the sounds of guns and violence. Page had Dazed and Confused in that "theatrical" vein, plus the No Quarter jam, which is very jazz-rock.  I love the idea of Page as kind of the Miles Davis of rock in the 1970s and they had a lot in common drug-wise by the late-1970s, so it could have worked if Page was willing to defer to Miles the way Miles would have wanted.  But it's so much easier to picture him doing something with Hazel.

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There's jazz feel in the No Quarter solo, and in Tea for One.  There are also jazz-rock statements on the Death Wish II record.  I think Page would have been keen to play with Miles, not sure at all about how Miles would have felt about that.

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There is audio of Jimmy and the late great Jaco Pastorious playing together..   

 

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Did Page not attend a guitar clinic of some sort around 74' which was taught / hosted by John McLaughlin? One thing I noticed about several of Page's live solos from 75' on is his use of dissonant notes and counterpoint. He never did that prior to the 75' tour. Zappa started doing the same stuff, almost identical to Page at this time.

I think Page would have been great with Davis, however they could have both OD'd as well. Talk about Toxic Twins

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2 hours ago, IpMan said:

One thing I noticed about several of Page's live solos from 75' on is his use of dissonant notes and counterpoint. He never did that prior to the 75' tour.

Indeed!!. Some of those No Quarter solos '75 on are text book dissonant experiments. He was doing that on Trampled Underfoot and a few other things as well. Even at the very end, his Whole Lotta Love soloing was a template for the noise guitar that Sonic Youth and Live Skull would develop a few years later (they would never admit it). Page changed his style in '74 and gave us this wholly new dissonant landscape. Many people prefer the more palatable pentatonic jamming he was doing prior, but to me he truly became the most interesting guitarist of his generation when he switched things up.  I mean, the only Rush song Page is on record saying he liked is Villa Strangiato, Rush's most jazz-tinged song, and the one they say they have a tough time remembering how to play as a band.  Jimmy was a post-rock jazz noise guitarist from 1974 on, pure genius in my book.

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4 hours ago, the chase said:

There is audio of Jimmy and the late great Jaco Pastorious playing together..   

 

Wow.  Here's description of it from the woman who did Jaco's hair that day. I had no idea this ever happened until you posted it!!!  https://books.google.com/books?id=iXDAtco1x5YC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=fannie+mae+jam+jaco+and+jimmy+page&source=bl&ots=K7IMG4_CLZ&sig=5M3oR7ejV450A4jrd1dK1COAGfs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5y8e8w7TSAhVB_IMKHWe2AkYQ6AEIKzAE#v=onepage&q=fannie mae jam jaco and jimmy page&f=false

 

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Part 2 and Part 3 of the jam.

This goes on for 25 minutes or so ...

 

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Actually much of the TSRTS DAC guitar solo after the bow thing gets pretty dissonant, IMO not quite jelling all the 

time either. Very original, but at certain gigs 73'-75' , again too out there. Steve Howe was much better and more

lyrical using dissonance in a musical way. Certainly different styles. The thing with Page and Davis, experienced jazz

players can take a one chord modal vamp and still play very conventionally jazzy licks, whereas a rock or half fusion

player tend to sound trapped in such a format. Page said he played jazz as a session man , but can't find this stuff

on the sessionman releases. TUF, very interesting dissonance, and it works. Surely if Page applied himself he could 

get some jazz stuff together, but forget about Jimmy at any point showing up at a jazz open mike and burning.

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Posted (edited)

I realize he wasn't a rock musician (although he could play ripping lead rock guitar), but there were quite a lot of collaborations between Prince and Miles Davis. They also performed on stage several times. But again, this goes back to musical knowledge. As most people know, Prince could play about 25 gazillion musical instruments, and do so very well. He could sight read and the whole works. He was extremely well trained and probably had the harmonic knowledge to hang with Miles.

Edited by ThreeSticks

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I think if it happened it would've been because Miles dug what Page was doing from a sonic and feel stand point. It would not be jazz nor would it need to be. Miles hired plenty of musicians post Bitches Brew who weren't really jazz musicians. A lot of the guys who played with him in the 80's couldn't play jazz and hang with the likes of his old compadres in the 60's. They were funk/fusion/R&B players.  In most ways, Miles later music had more in common with Pages soundtrack to Death wish than jazz music of the 60's and 70's. 

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