"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines and dates by which bills must be paid" - FZ "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - FZ "With a tongue like a cow she can make you go wow" - FZ

This is infinitely fascinating to me. The desperate drive to invalidate not only a man's work but his character because his music isn't your style. And the pathetic need to expose yourself as ultimately one dimensional. How dare anyone think outside your box. How grateful i am i'm not imprisoned in your mindnumbingly boring wasteland of a reality. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and STP pass muster because they had the good sense to keep their crayons inside your lines. Because the secret to all great rock bands is playing it safe and verbatim regurgitation. But Nirvana didn't play it safe yet they still achieved success and cast a long shadow, and you just can't deal with that. I think that's more your problem than Kurt Cobain's. That's one reason why i admire the guy. Because he was successful in spite of his own problems. And in spite of people like you. Seems like people could just say good riddance or oh well and leave him in the past. Just forget about the talentless fluke. Right? But no. He seems to become more polarizing as time goes on. For the record, Kurt Cobain was: A great vocalist A talented unique guitarist An epic songwriter And if you can't or won't peek outside your little box of rules long enough to consider this, that's your sad fucking problem. Now go crawl back to your comfort zone where you belong. And for the love of Jimi stop trying to define greatness with your color by numbers bullshit. You're embarrassing yourself.

　 Could it be one man's trivialities are another man's demons? nah... Gotta say this post really surprised me. Not the content, as this point of view is rampant under every Cobain story, Nirvana video and thread online. But when there's a post count that high, one might expect that the poster has quality information or even some wisdom to bring to the table. Turns out i know you from somewhere else, Steve. A song called "Ballad of a Thin Man". Yeah, Mr. Jones didn't "get" Bob upon his arrival. But it's been twenty years and you still don't understand Kurt. Consider now for a moment the value in a fan hearing a lyric which commiserates, a lyric which addresses everyday problems which are universal but make many feel alone. Here's the news, like it or not. Kurt Cobain was very talented at writing those kind of lyrics. Consider the value when someone feels like someone else understands. Can you calculate that? The voice of dissent in rock n roll which speaks to and for the outsiders. The nobodies. For people whose voices are never heard. It's therapeutic. It's medicinal. Can you dig that? You make it clear he wasn't here to speak for you, but can't you muster the respect to say he was here to speak for someone? Common sense might look at the album sales and passionate fanbase and think, there is something happening here. I just don't know what it is. Sucks to be an outsider, huh Mr. Jones? No, you're definitely an important somebody. Your post count proves that, right? Or maybe that's just compensating for... If there hadn't been so much of this hateful rhetoric throughout the years you might not come across as such a mindless follower now. Maybe thoughtless potshots at an easy target is just your style. This begs the questions: Why would such a positive, together guy need to use that lame Kurt Cobain as a punching bag? Since he's so talentless, what is that really proving anyway? Shit, he's been dead for over twenty years and he's still a burr under your saddle? It's that old classic move, right? Attack what you don't understand. Personally, i don't have patience for knee-jerk reactions or foundless judgements. Something is still happening here, and you still don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

We have 60 years of rock n roll history and Michael Hutchence, Oasis, and Peter Gabriel are at the top of people's all-time lists? Of exciting, charismatic rock n roll frontmen? And some of you are treating this like it's American Idol. Points for this and points for that and who was sober enough to qualify. No wonder there hasn't been a real rock n roll band since Nirvana. The fans stopped "getting it" and became too comfortable accepting the substitutes. We're on page 9 of this thread and I don't remember seeing Johnny Rotten anywhere. Regardless of your feelings towards Rotten's vocals, the Pistols or punk rock in general, this guy was EFFECTIVE as a frontman. He did his thing his way and left a lasting mark on culture. A high priest of rock and roll frontmen. The greatest rock n roll frontman of all-time? G.G Allin. Without a doubt. The guy who most embodied the true spirit of rock n roll, the spirit of expressing yourself your own way, on your own terms, without using anyone else's blueprint. He did some truly disgusting, offensive and wrong stuff. But the fact that he saw those lines and dared to cross them puts him in a league of his own. A true one of a kind. It's not necessarily about being extreme. Paul Rodgers should have been on the original list on this thread. For some reason, despite his close associations with Jimmy Page, and his epic talent, he's never really given any respect in this website's forum. Weird. For the most part, everyone has been trying to emulate the original masters; Elvis in '56, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis in '57, and Buddy Holly in '58. The music and the charisma of these guys set the standard for rock and roll frontmen.

Dark Lord, you ignorant slut. There's finally a thread for the great lost song Fire and you use it to grandstand a crackpot theory about some phantom Jimmy Page misstep. Maybe you should find a Radioactive thread to fall apart in. But first, isn't it the very riff you're complaining about now that you thought connected Radioactive to Fire?

Yeah, this song has a lot more in common with ALS and Presence in general than it does with Radioactive or The Firm.

Why should I relax about something I have a sincere passion for. This is a discussion forum and i'm responding to other posts. Is that a problem for you? That's the second post i've seen where you've contradicted yourself. You posted - "does anyone really believe if he had lived he would be treated in the same manner as this God who once roamed the world that he became in death?" and responded with - "I never said I can't figure out why Jimi Hendrix is significant" You posted - "I felt his abilities have been greatly exaggerated" and responded with - "No one was tearing up Hendrix" For whatever reason that you won't own up to, you have a problem with Hendrix. OK. Maybe he ain't your cup of tea. Who cares. Does your opinion mean anything outside of your post on this forum? No. Despite this, you feel the need to broadcast your half-baked, kneejerk ideas to the masses. Do you understand actions and reactions? I gave you a quick history lesson as a counterpoint and all you've got for me is a "relax, dude". Well played, I guess. And yes, Jimmy Page is great. The bestest ever. Thanks for that most insightful observation, dude. And by all means, please go on and on about Julian Lennon's cultural impact and tell me more about how his dad was a total asshole. About how John Lennon was a total asshole. Maybe you're one of those people who confuses being a true individual with just being obstinate.

Any and all versions July 1970 through April 1973 - the medley era. Each one is different and awesome. 8-21-70 Tulsa 9-14-71 Berkeley 6-22-72 San Bernadino 1-18-73 Bradford

6-27-69 and 8-31-69

6-23-77, despite it's popularity, is undeniable. I also like how he comes in early on 5-26-77.

However you want to word it, you don't understand Jimi's contributions and refuse to afford him the respect he's due. If anything, as time goes on he becomes more underestimated and misunderstood. If you really want to know how Jimmy became JIMI, research what his contemporaries have had to say about him. He was the living breathing black American bluesman/Johnny B. Goode they had all been emulating. He was the direct link to Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, and Robert Johnson. Not to mention how he revolutionized the use of volume, feedback, foot pedals, the whammy bar, and recording techniques and was a stunning songwriter and performer. The truth is Hendrix paved the modern hard rock road that Jimmy Page and many others have walked. Jimi's abilities have been greatly exaggerated. Wow. If you need to escape serious thinking with lightweight eighties pop music, well, do what you got to do. Needing to tear Hendrix down to build Page up is, to put it nicely, unnecessary and weird.

Julian Lennon 12'' remixes. And you're they guy who can't figure out why Jimi Hendrix is significant. Maybe it's because you have an aversion to talent and timeless songs.

Ever since he landed in London in 1966, EVERYBODY has been playing guitar in the shadow of Jimi Hendrix. Hands down the number one game changer in rock n roll guitar. Head and shoulders above everybody when it comes to living in the moment and recreating the same songs on a daily basis. It was much easier to follow his lead than it was for him to tour with two white guys and ride the feedback off multiple Marshall stacks to create abstract sound paintings. It's easy to take that for granted today. The balls it took for a black man to dress like he wanted, say what he wanted, and play what he wanted in the face of 1968 America. He got away with it because people were mesmerized by his guitar playing. It's obvious Hendrix had a big influence in Page. The psychedelic versions of "For Your Love" on the first tour are answers to what Jimi had been doing and the "No Quarter" riff is lifted directly from "Machine Gun". All of the serious improvisational ass that Page kicked, especially 69-73, is undoubtedly inspired by Jimi Hendrix.

"The 1980 Tour is a dignified epitaph for the Dinosaur" - Luis Rey Yes. That makes a lot of sense. I've always felt that despite the tragedy of Bonham's exit and an upcoming tour, LZ died of natural causes and ended when it should have. Not because they weren't still great, but because they finished what they came to do. The band was afforded the luxury of having time to grow musically, individually and as a group, and matured with each album and tour. Tour Over Europe represents the last leg of the flight. Playing "Train kept a rollin" on both their first and last tours is very poetic, like bookends. They had come full circle. And ending the final show of the final tour with a 20 minute modernized electronic psychedelic jam seems like a fitting way to say farewell. It's interesting that there is so much controversy here about the greatness of ITTOD and Tour Over Europe. I think it's because they represent something a lot of people have a hard time accepting - THE END. Alas, every airship that takes off must one day return to the ground. This airship did not crash, but landed and was then grounded forever.

Not the most original, but possibly the most spot on rebuttal in any of your 563 posts. Your opinion's existence is righteous no matter how skewed.

Longtime fan of Providence and Pittsburgh. Detroit 7/12/73 shouldn't be underestimated. Nice recording too.

I'm not sure a meltdown over post 1980 artwork is really warranted. The music will live on regardless of how it's packaged. I became a fan thanks to Maxell XLIIs. The original artwork hasn't gone anywhere and the mystique is still alive. Anyway, Hipgnosis had a lot to do with the original artwork and they weren't around after 1983.

"First off, no one here claims to "know" what Zep members think. Some folks are simply engaging in speculation, theorizing, and plain old guess work." I can understand people getting disappointed. But when people become angry with Robert Plant because he won't sign up for a reunion tour, that's not speculation. That's irrational behavior. That has happened several times in this thread alone. So be irrational. I'm only bringing another perspective to the topic. I'm not claiming to have THE perspective, only A perspective. According to Dark Lord and You, there's room for all opinions and points of view here. If you haven't been directly attacked or insulted, and you still feel threatened by a different point of view, I think that's more your problem than mine. I don't think anyone should come here and leave feeling like they got dumped on. But is this a support group or a discussion forum for a rock & roll band? If you don't like what I post, you can either make a counterpoint or ignore me. But i've got some bad news for you, sunshine. Talking to me like you're my third grade teacher isn't "playing nice". What did Robert Plant mean by that comment? Maybe that Jimmy Page (and the fans who hope for a reunion tour) should have a nice nap, and awake with a fresh sense of reality. To what is and what probably won't ever be. Just my humble opinion.

"Better tell that to Jimmy:" I don't need to tell Jimmy anything. That's the point. Get it? I don't think Jimmy Page needs you or anybody else to interpret his words, thoughts or actions for the unwashed masses. Relaying his information is one thing. Inferring it's meaning is another. If you need to define my post as a meltdown to prove your quasi-authority here, whatever. This is a place for opinions, huh. Just not ones you like?

What is it that makes some of you think you are clued in to what Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham think, feel, are motivated by, want, should do, and owe you as fans? There is an undercurrent here which believes that if a Led Zeppelin reunion tour doesn't happen, these guys will have failed somehow, will die unfulfilled, and you as fans will be shortchanged. Really. The bucket list concept is sad and pathetic and it's crazy to think these guys need one now all of a sudden. They may not be done creating and entertaining, just accept they'll be doing it on their own terms, not necessarily yours. Accept that already. Consider also that maybe it isn't Jason Bonham's sole purpose here on earth to live in his father's shadow, to live vicariously through his father's past life to create an experience for selfish, thoughtless and demanding "fans". There may be a chance that's a possibility. Ever seen the SNL skit where Shatner tells the trekkies to get a life? It may hit a little too close to home for some of the people here.

Yeah, I think Page has been to a degree, "lost', since 1980. But I don't blame him too much. It was a helluva thing to have to walk away from. On one hand, i'm glad he's at the helm when it comes to remastering and releasing "new' product. But sometimes I think he's too close to the material to be objective about what should be released. Consider the moneygrabbers who run the Hendrix estate. they'll put Jimi's image on all kinds of garbage for a buck, but they also somehow realized the importance of some of the audience recordings which captured epic moments and have made them available to stream, for free even, on their website. Hopefully, sooner rather than never, JP will wake up and show some of the great LZ performances some respect.

I doubt it is a lack of care. I would be surprised if he was invited to participate. Was he invited to the No Quarter or Plant/Page projects? I never felt the band was a democracy. JP started the band, was guitarist, main songwriter, producer, and thus keeper of the legacy. He harvested the talents of the three others to create awesomeness, but in the end they were really just hired guns for his vision. Plant and Jones know their place, and they know their place is move forward in new creative directions. They're all smart, talented, and living in the moment; they're just not in the same band anymore.

"Ten Years Bonham!" My first and after 25some years still my favorite listening experience. My top TYG, ALS, & STH for sure. If you put aside sound quality, vocal condition/style, estimated drug/alcohol usage and other usual judgements, this show has to leave most others in the shadows as far as the band, especially Plant, wearing their personality and emotions on their sleeve. No doubt the presence of a special guest Looney had something to do with the vibes on this night.

The whole Dread Zeppelin "Un-Led-Ed" album.

I think as long as this thread was started some things should be clarified. "Bootleg" is not a general term to describe all unofficial recordings. Bootleg is a specific term for unofficial recordings made for sale. Some bootlegs are sourced from unauthorized or stolen soundboard recordings. Other bootlegs are made from amateur recordings. Most, but not all amateur concert recordings are made to document an event for personal use or for trade in collecting circles. These recordings become bootlegs when someone mass produces unauthorized cds, vinyl, or dvds for sales which do not benefit artists or their record companies. Not all amateur recordings available on the internet are sourced from bootlegs. Not all amateur recordings available on the internet exist as bootlegs. There are recordings posted on the internet everyday that have no bootlegger involvement. The term "bootleg" is a reference to unlawful transport of illegal booze in one's boot during prohibition, hence the connotation of illegal activity. The free trade of amateur recordings amongst fans has never been targeted for prosecution and is accepted and encouraged by some bands, most notably The Grateful Dead. Have all known LZ recordings been bootlegged? I assume so since it seems they are all getting different types of sonic lipstick applied to try and improve the listening experience. And despite the fact the material can be found for free online, the novelty of collecting bootlegs is still apparently alive and well.