I would appreciate it if you no longer reply to any of my posts if you cannot engage in civil, adult conversation. Goodbye Steve

Hi Brad, The saying is English slang for a good person you can count on in a pinch. Larry Badgely was the tour "doctor" in 1977 who carried and distributed various "pharmaceuticals" to the band and Jimmy in particular. I believe they got rid of him mid-tour due to his own use of medication and his penchant for groupies, especially the ones on the younger side.

Howdy Steve. How about you try for once to be civil and not insulting. This discussion was going very well until you showed up with again, nothing to positively contribute but instead offer only sophomoric insults and nonsense. Or is civil discourse simply beyond your ability should the subject at hand be something which you do not agree with? I guess if you have nothing to offer, no facts or historical context just toss some insults and pat yourself on the back for being "so witty." Whatever

You get no argument from me there brother

Count me in, and I am positive a few more here will join the discussion as well. There are several forum members well versed in esoterica & the occult who can add considerably to the conversation.

You bet, EWS is a masterpiece and I encourage you to start a new thread on the subject because the material is so dense and so layered we could all go back and forth for quite some time. The symbolism is ridiculously dense in the movie and IMO the scenes at the mansion, the mock hieros gamos etc. are one layer, but the real kicker are the scenes in the costume shop. Holy shit the allusions in those scenes alone are insane. This whole movie is actually several different short films brought together by a common theme and that theme is at all levels humanity is perverse, from the micro to the macro, the poor to the powerful. We are all commodities to one extent or another. Kubrick in EWS was pulling the curtain back a bit but the themes and the movie were simply beyond the understanding of most people due to the symbology. I don't believe Kubrick was killed because of this movie as he was in poor health for some time. More like he knew he was not long for this world and figured, what the hell, what do I have to lose.

Well if the alternative is fascism or communism then yes. I hate to come across as crude but unfortunately eggs have to be broken to make an omelet. Even if the omelet tastes like shit it's still better than an actual shit sandwich (fascism or communism). Believe me, I don't like it any better than you do however that is the reality. Think about it, humanity was basically feudalistic until the Great Enlightenment of the 17th & 18th centuries and republican ideas did not really begin to take hold until the end of the 18th century, so we are only about 250 years into representational government. I figure we have a good 100-150 years of this system before another, better system begins to take over if the current system can sustain. Otherwise we will likely move toward a fascist state. Reason why I think fascism would prevail over communism is because fascism just works better between the two systems as economically communism simply cannot be sustained for any long-term period. Both Stalinism & Maoism proved absolute failures and either collapsed (Russia) or evolved into a hybrid free-market quasi-fascist state (China).

Thanks Woz, I was waiting for the forums resident musical expert and authority to weigh in and I mean that sincerely.

I agree 100%, her claim should have been thoroughly investigated from day one, but powerful, wealthy people have the system on their side. I guess my point is the system as a whole is not some global, satanic cabal but rather there are individuals within that system which are degenerate scum of which the system protects for fear the whole of the system may be compromised as a result. After all, when some creep is busted for child molestation it's not just the criminal who is persecuted but his whole family even when they had no knowledge. People naturally believe if a tree has a single rotten apple, then the whole tree must be rotten even when every other apple is fine.

If we as humans were more enlightened in general I would say yes, but the fact is the current system though corrupt and malignant, is still better than chaos which would be the likely result of chucking the system. Our system as it currently is proves perfect for our current stage of mental evolution. If it were to fail or be brought down, as history of the past 100 years proves, the outcome would be either a fascist state (Nazi Germany, Mussolini Italy, Hungry, etc.) or a dictatorial socialist state (Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc.). A really good example of this is the Russian Revolution of 1918. Most think it was Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and the Bolsheviks who took over immediately and then bam, Soviet Union but that is not what happened. A provisional democratic government was established by the moderates who were in charge until 1919 but they were trying to be too many things to too many factions which resulted in a power vacuum. That's when the Bolsheviks led by Lenin seized power and the Soviet state established in the early 20's. Revolutions and change start with good intentions but it is always the assholes who take over because they are willing to do anything to gain power whereas the good folk simply do not have the balls or the single-mindedness which is why they are the good folk.

Interesting but just supposition and claims. I cannot stand cancel culture or trial by public opinion, such actions must stop lest where such motivations eventually lead. I believe in the rule of law and innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. Such trends are cyclical and last time was in the 80's to early 90's with the Satanic pedophile scandals at the time of which every single one was proven to be false. I would think after ruining countless lives back then we would have learned our lesson but no. Here is a link to an a few articles about that nonsense and how it was proven to be nonsense: How the daycare child abuse hysteria of the 1980s became a witch hunt - The Washington Post It’s Time to Revisit the Satanic Panic - The New York Times (nytimes.com) The irony here are these false and ridiculous stories wind up distracting from real cult activity that resulted in murder such as the Son of Sam case. At the time Berkowitz said he did not act alone and every shred of evidence pointed to the fact there were at least three other people involved in the murders. Then when they finally followed up on the evidence decades later it turned out that there was a cult just like Berkowitz stated and several members of that cult who likely participated in the murders "mysteriously" wound up dead within a year of Berkowitz apprehension. When I say mysteriously I am not talking about a heart attack, I am talking about being murdered or extremely suspicious suicides. So if you would like to see what a real satanic cult conspiracy looks like please research the Son of Sam murders, the investigations, and the eventual conclusions made 30 years after the fact. True Story Behind 'The Sons of Sam,' David Berkowitz Series | Time Did 'Son of Sam' really act alone? (nbcnews.com) If you dig really deep you will find connections with The Manson Family, The Process Church, and Son of Sam. Plus, Scientology keeps popping up as well as The Process Church was founded by two high ranking Scientologists in 1963. Very interesting and scary stuff. Unholy Communion: Does a Satanic Cult Connect 'Son of Sam' to Charles Manson? | Crime History | Investigation Discovery Though there is considerable evidence linking all of this together there is nothing definitive and so this still remains a conspiracy theory. I simply wish proper investigations should have been conducted at the time and possibly were. The rich and famous have always been freaky and they do protect their own. Do I think such conspiracies are global or there is some networked international cabal, absolutely not as such a broad conspiracy would have been brought to light decades ago. However, I do believe there are small, local bands of these sick bastards which occasionally hook up with other small bands for mutual interest. So I believe when the police find something like a Manson or Son of Sam they come up with some silly, stupid, and ridiculous nonsensical motivations to hide a larger group activity. The reason being goes back to Kennedy and the necessity for a "lone gunman" as a single aberration can be tolerated by society, but even a small band of people working together has the potential to scare the living shit out of society as a whole and could result in a loss of faith in the system. Once that happens, everything begins to break down. That's why even though I believe Kennedy's (for example) assassination was a conspiracy and not the act of a lone gunman, I also believe the Warren Commission was 100% right to cover it up. If the truth ever came out in a meaningful way at the time, the whole system could have been compromised. It reminds me of the movie Platoon when Sgt. Barnes makes his speech to the dopers. This speech is, IMO, the key to everything regarding the modern version of the social contract:

I thought he died of a heart attack at age 75 which is pretty common. He did die in Singapore however he was an internationally known psychologist from what I have read. The MKUltra program and it's corresponding programs such as Artichoke delt with drug experiments & mind control. Dr. Cameron operating out of McGill University was using "psychic driving" techniques on several hundred subjects in the 60's & 70's which were absolutely disgusting, inhuman torture and nothing more. I have never heard the MKUltra program being affiliated with anything outside of mind control and I have never heard anything negative about Dr. Kidman until this thread. Anything is possible though even if highly improbable. Personally, I do not believe in some global conspiracy of the elites dealing in child abduction and molestation. Do wealthy people engage in such horrible practices? Of course, just look at Epstein who, BTW, had people going to his island from all sides of the political spectrum. Clinton, Trump, you name it. The question is were they going there for underage sex or were they going there to receive payoffs from Epstein to look the other way? It appears the "good" Prince Andy was there for the former but without actual, verifiable proof I simply cannot "assume" everyone who was around Epstein was a kiddie-diddler. One cannot be guilty simply due to association.

I think the biggest reason DP was not quite as successful as LZ was due to the basic arrangements of the songs. When I listen to DP I hear five outstanding musicians constantly trying to one up each other. You have Lord going crazy on the keys, then Blackmore comes in with, "oh yeah, listen to this," followed by Paice and then Gillian screaming. Zep were always about the overall song construction and not the individual players (at least on record). Live is another matter but even then Zep were more experimental and the sonic battles were mostly between Page & Bonham but still within the framework of the song (Page soloing, Bonzo responding, Page responding to Bonzo etc.) Or Page vs. Jones in WLL but still within the context. DP usually did these individual solo runs but no real back and forth like Zep. I enjoy both bands but for me DP could be more a stroke-a-thon at times. Yes, Zep were indulgent but it seemed their indulgences were more directed toward the overall song being played and not just a "Wheeeeee...look at me! Look how awesome I am on my instrument, wheeeeee."

I believe you are correct Congo, my mistake.

Yes indeed, and JPJ can play the pedal steel very well. I keep trying to figure out the arrangement they would have used with Page on Pedal Steel and I just cannot see it working. Would JPJ be playing the main arpeggio on acoustic guitar and Page adding accompaniments, with no bass involved or would Page play the whole thing on Pedal Steel with Jones on bass? Seems to me they would need a second guitarist to make it work with the Pedal Steel. Interesting idea though. I wonder if Jones played the Pedal Steel in the 70's or if he picked it up later. I know when I seen him live in 99' & 01' he played the living shit out of the Pedal Steel, the man is a master.

Good movie, not exactly subtle though. Loved Meryl Streep as the Pres, she was hilarious! Also appreciated the whole fake news aspect and the way too late realization of the general public when they finally discover the truth. Too funny.

Oh so witty Mr. 8-Track

Most stations are also available on the web so if reception is an issue, try it on your computer. I listen to WXRT out of Chicago daily on the web and you can get international radio as well. WBBM Chicago is available on this streaming platform for free: WBBM Newsradio 780 AM & 105.9 FM - Chicago's All News Station - LISTEN LIVE | Audacy

The most logical explanation given why we have not been contacted by alien life (if there is alien life) is that they are so far advanced in relation to us that contact with such a primitive species (us) is simply a waste of time. Kinda like a human trying to have a conversation with an ant or a bee. We have no idea how they communicate or if they have language what form of reference it has. In other words, humans are basically linear thinkers who associate words with actions and things. An alien may communicate telepathically and use emotion or another more abstract means to communicate which we simply may not be able to understand. Hell, we can't even have a conversation with a dolphin or with a whale, two species on our own planet who have language and directly communicate through the use of language. My opinion is they just keep an eye on us to make sure we do not gain the tech to leave our solar system with any degree of efficiency. I figure if somehow we did and they became aware of this then they would indeed contact us to let us know, no bueno humans, you're not ready, you're too violent and emotional. Stay in your own back yard or else until you can evolve to where you know how to play well with others without requiring something in return.

Here is what I believe is a good one. Did Jimmy by chance meet Rosaleen Norton during the Feb 72' Australian / NZ gigs? Norton was a major figure in magick, esoterica, and art in the 40's-70's and a follower of Crowley's though not a practitioner of Thelema as she developed her own school of sex magick & workings. I would think Jimmy would be quite interested indeed in meeting Ms. Norton and vice versa as Zep would have been right up her ally. Also, Norton was extremely well known in Australia & the UK due to her bohemian / scandalous lifestyle which she absolutely reveled in.

Though I thoroughly enjoyed the 95' tour, I too preferred the stripped down, 98' shows by a country mile. Two main reasons: Plant's voice was much stronger than in 95' and he sounded much better overall. Second, Page played as a man possessed. I have said this before but IMO Page hit a peak he had not seen since Euro 73' in 98'. He may not have been quite as fast (pretty close though), but his phrasing and articulation were out of this world as were his improvisations. The band jelled very well and the energy was simply palpable.

Nope, I simply feel sorry for you that you have zero.

Oh yes because virtue is obviously not your thing Boy-O

Well there ya go Boy-O, something for you to aspire to, empathy & nobility.

Well, to be fair, one need only look at the above comments from the "three stooges" to realize there is not much intelligent life here either. These clowns and their ilk are most likely the reason why, if aliens exist and have visited our planet, refuse to make contact. Aliens would either vaporize such dopes or simply leave us alone. As they would be considerably more intelligent and empathetic than us, they have chosen the latter. Thanks numbskulls, no flying cars or transporters due to you acting like a bunch of insane knobs.