kaiser Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I agree. A statement for a great guitar player doesn't have to be a solo. It can be a memorable riff, or adding colors to a song. That is lacking from the album as a whole. He did add some nice colors to All My Love and a few other things. The most guitar oriented song on ITTOD is In the Evening (riff wise) which Page is famous for. Besides the natural solos he played there are no other stand out guitar related tunes. If you relate it to LZ3, that is pure acoustic music, so it is guitar oriented in a sense. You can't really compare the second side of LZ3 to ITTOD because it's a totally different concept, place, time and type of music. And he did make his statement on LZ3, just listen to the entire first side. All classic Zeppelin. Thanks for the input. I enjoyed reading it. I can compare it to LZ3 because it is the same concept: making a transitional & varied record & not to be pidgeon-holed as to being one thing. I don't think side 1 of LZ3 is anymore classic Zeppelin as to side 2, it's the sum of it all put together that makes it classic. ITTOD is a varied album as well, every track is different but with keyboards standing out mostly as acoustic on LZ3. "Wearing And Tearing" could have been put on ITTOD but in a sense it would negate "In The Evening", which is the better song of the two. I would have preferred "Darlene" to "South Bound Saurez" but I understand why they went with the latter as it's a New Orleans piano stomp, which is something that they hadn't quite done before ( "Boogie With Stu' is exactly that... a boogie) & "Darlene" is more of rockabilly pastiche which they have done before & "Hot Dog" is straight up rockabily (not Country) so I think they really put thought into what went on the album & why. I love "Ozone Baby" personally, but I can see why it didn't make the cut. There are people who much rather have had "Hey Hey What Can I Do" on LZ3 as opposed to "Hats Off..." or "Night Flight" on LZ4 compared to "Four Sticks" but I'm sure the band felt happy with their ultimate choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Let me explain something to you- I'm a die-hard Zeppelin fan. Their are things I love about them and a few things I don't care for but to utter certain words to describe a Zeppelin album are forbiiden to my taste. To dislike something is fine, but to use the phrase "makes people wanna puke" should never come out of a Zeppelin fans mouth when relating to their albums. That's a cardinal sin in my book ...only haters of their music have such degrading words to descibe them. Unless your just here to get a rise out of someone......That's the way I see it. Your book is not the whole Zeppelin fan's book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Your book is not the whole Zeppelin fan's book. Enjoy the site my friend. I've said my peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) I can compare it to LZ3 because it is the same concept: making a transitional & varied record & not to be pidgeon-holed as to being one thing. I don't think side 1 of LZ3 is anymore classic Zeppelin as to side 2, it's the sum of it all put together that makes it classic. ITTOD is a varied album as well, every track is different but with keyboards standing out mostly as acoustic on LZ3. "Wearing And Tearing" could have been put on ITTOD but in a sense it would negate "In The Evening", which is the better song of the two. I would have preferred "Darlene" to "South Bound Saurez" but I understand why they went with the latter as it's a New Orleans piano stomp, which is something that they hadn't quite done before ( "Boogie With Stu' is exactly that... a boogie) & "Darlene" is more of rockabilly pastiche which they have done before & "Hot Dog" is straight up rockabily (not Country) so I think they really put thought into what went on the album & why. I love "Ozone Baby" personally, but I can see why it didn't make the cut. There are people who much rather have had "Hey Hey What Can I Do" on LZ3 as opposed to "Hats Off..." or "Night Flight" on LZ4 compared to "Four Sticks" but I'm sure the band felt happy with their ultimate choice. .... and that song (SBS) also fits the mood of the album cover ... the New Orleans Bar scene. I never really connected the 2 before. Very cool. Edited November 5, 2011 by the chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I would also say Presence is a more uncharacteristic album than ITTOD. JPJ is the one who doesn't contribute in a songwriting sense on Presence as opposed to Page on ITTOD & I think that shows greatly. Presence is the first Zeppelin album to have neither keyboards or acoustic guitars. There isn't a ballad ( "Tea For One" can hardly be called a ballad, it's more of a suicide note set to a dirge ). That element of light & shade is not on Presence even though "Hots On..", "Royal Orleans" & "Candy Store Rock" are rather lighthearted, the lack of any keyboard or acoustics with very heavy guitars throughout the album make it feel very samey. It's the closest to a Page solo album in the Zep catalogue... which is probably why Page loves it so much, which he should as it is his best playing ever, but not the band's as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Despite the name, which sounds like another name for ..., there's no really good tracks. Every song has those pop keyboards and very, very little guitar. In The Evening and I'm Gonna Crawl is good, if not excellent songs, but 15% that is good dosen't make me like the whol thing. Just listen toTrack 1 and 7 and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Fool in the Rain is a very good song no matter what type of music you like. It's well arranged and showcases alot of talent and new direction. The guitar solo is kinda cool with the effect pedal he uses on it. Almost sounds like a bass guitar is playing note for note with him. Great drums with the Carribean influence and the Bernard Purdie shuffle. Carouselambra is a daring / dark track with great lyrics, keyboards, bass and what guitar is there. Very progressive territory. Regardless of how much airplay All My Love gets, I think it's a great song. So for me, it only leaves two so-so tracks. Edited November 5, 2011 by Rock Historian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I reconcile it past my mind how good a song All My Love actually is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 An album that sparks such a heated debate pretty much speaks for itself. Though it would be nice if the criticism was more of the constructive variety rather than one meant purely to be inflammatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) An album that sparks such a heated debate pretty much speaks for itself. Though it would be nice if the criticism was more of the constructive variety rather than one meant purely to be inflammatory. Speaking for myself, I think Im doing my part in the constructive department... The songs that I personally think are simply good songs I have described in short detail of the things I like about them. As for the two I don't really much care for being South Bound and Hot Dog. I think the two are songs that express the fun side of things more than trying to prove a point (which Zeppelin never did). However, neither are great songs to begin with and neither are memorable tracks, nor would it be something you would play for someone who you were trying to turn on to Zeppelin. They are throw away tracks that could have been easily replaced with the ones released on Coda. With Presense being the last album 3 years earlier, it would have been a bit more clever to put the best tracks on the album. But I wasn't in charge of that!!! Hahaha... These songs were what they wanted on the album for whatever reasons they chose. It is what it is, so Im not here to wish upon a shooting star. I just think Hot Dog for sure could have been replaced. It's good to show the fun side of things, but it's one song maybe they could have done without releasing at the time. I think it's very impressive that they can handle a rockabily/country tune but I don't wanna hear Zeppelin do it. Even D'yer Mak'er is one I can do without. Nice try though. Edited November 5, 2011 by Rock Historian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Out of interest where would you rank ITTOD out of the eight they released ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 That has to be one of the most idiotic comments I've seen. Thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Out of interest where would you rank ITTOD out of the eight they released ? I don't rank Zeppelin albums nor do I have a favorite. Every album has songs I like and can relate to. Just depends on the mood, phase of life or moment I'm in. But to best answer your question (if it was intended for me) I would give it a C+ on a scale from A-F. That's the best I can do for you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 I just wanna say that most of the replies here have been really good and interesting to read. It's pretty cool to have a site like this where Zeppelin fans in general can meet and talk about this. So regardless of the debates that happen , or wheather I agree with someone, it's still a pretty cool outlet to pass some time-talking about music. Could be much worse...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 People like what they like, or don't. Personally speaking ITTOD was never a personal favortie of mine. It started well and ended dramatically well but the stuff in between was, well.......... One thing I found out though, based on my personal musical preferences; I burned a CDR for myself losing Carouselambra completely and substituting Wearing and Tearing and Ozone Baby instead from Coda...........and the entire album sounded different to me. Better by far. But hey, that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Speaking for myself, I think Im doing my part in the constructive department... The songs that I personally think are simply good songs I have described in short detail of the things I like about them. As for the two I don't really much care for being South Bound and Hot Dog. I think the two are songs that express the fun side of things more than trying to prove a point (which Zeppelin never did). However, neither are great songs to begin with and neither are memorable tracks, nor would it be something you would play for someone who you were trying to turn on to Zeppelin. They are throw away tracks that could have been easily replaced with the ones released on Coda. With Presense being the last album 3 years earlier, it would have been a bit more clever to put the best tracks on the album. But I wasn't in charge of that!!! Hahaha... These songs were what they wanted on the album for whatever reasons they chose. It is what it is, so Im not here to wish upon a shooting star. I just think Hot Dog for sure could have been replaced. It's good to show the fun side of things, but it's one song maybe they could have done without releasing at the time. I think it's very impressive that they can handle a rockabily/country tune but I don't wanna hear Zeppelin do it. Even D'yer Mak'er is one I can do without. Nice try though. I agree that "South Bound Saurez" & "Hot Dog" are fun but lesser tracks compared to the others but that's why in it's way the album reminds me of "Houses Of The Holy" which had "D'Yer Ma'ker" & "The Crunge" on it. I'm sure there are those who would have preferred "The Rover" on HOTH on it as opposed to those two numbers but I couldn't imagine not hearing "D'Yer "Maker" not going into "No Quarter" with "The Rover" in it's place. And again beyond HOTH as an album, ITTOD also reminds me of LZ3 as far as the transitional aspects of it. It's a ballsy album in every way. As an album it's full of risks from a band that was very much fractured for various reasons. It's an album that should be reevaluated towards the positive... I think so anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) That has to be one of the most idiotic comments I've seen. Um, it's a ballad? Explain how it is genius. Edited November 6, 2011 by kaiser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 To explain my admittingly flip comment in regards to "Tea For One", the song is the most depressing in Zep's catalogue. Lyrically it's about isolation, loneliness, & feeling despondant about not being with someone you love with almost no hope of seeing that person or persons again, essentially the "character" in the song is at the end of their tether. Musically it starts off ominus & then the rhytm becomes stark & sparse as moaning blues licks go on throughout. Sorry, not exactly happy go lucky as a tune. There have been other Zep songs with a sadder subject matter, "All My Love" springs to mind, but where it's a song of loss it's also a song of rebirth not only lyrically but musically. "Tea For One" doesn't have a light at the end of the tunnel, "All My Love" does. Now I love "Tea For One", I've already said it's probably Page's best solo EVER on record, also I'm never said Plant was "suicidal" when writing it before I get hit with that accusation, it's just a song lyrically with a man at the end of his rope... even if it's just in the moment... & the music reflects that as well. As Page said the song is "intense". Sorry I have to explain every little bit off minutiae of how I see the song but some people just like to be inflammatory if their minds can't grasp certain concepts & must have their hand held in order to massage their ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Dirge: a song or hymn of grief or lamentation Ballad: any light, simple song especially one of sentimental or romantic character, a narrative poem often of folk orgin intended to be sung. "Tea For One" may be romantic & sentimental, but it sure as hell isn't light or simple, & it's not a narrative poem of folk orgin. "Tangerine" fits the bill of a "ballad". "Tea For One" is a song of grief and or lamentation. You just got served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Despite the name, which sounds like another name for ..., there's no really good tracks. Every song has those pop keyboards and very, very little guitar. In The Evening and I'm Gonna Crawl is good, if not excellent songs, but 15% that is good dosen't make me like the whol thing. Just listen toTrack 1 and 7 and you'll be fine. You have to be kidding. Edited November 6, 2011 by Knebby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 You have to be kidding. deadly serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 http://youtu.be/oncle_pVA24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That video now has one dislike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 http://youtu.be/oncle_pVA24 here's one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXAfaZ8UVGc&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Physical Graffitti, great album. Won't you post a thread about it. Let's stay on the subject-if that's ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.