Forbes: What Robert Plant Can Teach Leaders

[Melcórë]

...I can't help it: That article seems like a load of tosh, to me. How is Plant comparable to "leaders and public figures"? He's a musician exercising his passion...and the dig at the Stones? While they're definitely milking their fans for everything they have...so what? I've listened to a few of the recordings released from their current tour -- they still know how to put on a good show, and no one is forcing anyone to pay them money.

In terms of what the Stones have done recently with their music -- hi-resolution digital downloads, a "bootleg"-type label releasing concerts from the vaults -- well, members of the Zeppelin camp could certainly borrow their cues...

The argument that Plant isn't "cashing in on nostalgia" is, frankly, bullshit. He's Robert Plant, the lead singer of Led Zeppelin -- an entity which hasn't existed (properly) in over thirty years. His sets have incorporated more Zeppelin numbers recently, because, guess what, that's what people want to hear -- they're nostalgic for Led Zeppelin.

As to his not having an "ego"...well, while I do think he's much more level-headed than the "golden god" Plant of the 1970s, watch any of the recent interviews with him...it's still there, and it will always be there, because of who he is and what he's done.

[Cookie0024]

Every day there's a new 'What rock stars can teach businessmen' article and I cry a little inside realising that this is the state of both journalism and self-help books. *sigh*

[Melcórë]

Every day there's a new 'What rock stars can teach businessmen' article and I cry a little inside realising that this is the state of both journalism and self-help books. *sigh*

To be fair, "journalism" has always been a rather shoddy business.

[dimestoreguru]

Every day there's a new 'What rock stars can teach businessmen' article and I cry a little inside realising that this is the state of both journalism and self-help books. *sigh*

Thanks, Cookie. I'm not paid by Forbes, I'm just an unpaid contributor who gets to offer career advice and management advice in a conversational way that gradually helps my own writing and consulting brand. I decided to do this piece out of my lifelong love for Zeppelin.

You're right, the state of journalism and publishing has changed a lot because people like me are willing to do this stuff for free. But to pass up the chance to tie some of these issues to what one of my heroes is out there doing? Nah....

[dimestoreguru]

...I can't help it: That article seems like a load of tosh, to me. How is Plant comparable to "leaders and public figures"? He's a musician exercising his passion...and the dig at the Stones? While they're definitely milking their fans for everything they have...so what? I've listened to a few of the recordings released from their current tour -- they still know how to put on a good show, and no one is forcing anyone to pay them money.

In terms of what the Stones have done recently with their music -- hi-resolution digital downloads, a "bootleg"-type label releasing concerts from the vaults -- well, members of the Zeppelin camp could certainly borrow their cues...

The argument that Plant isn't "cashing in on nostalgia" is, frankly, bullshit. He's Robert Plant, the lead singer of Led Zeppelin -- an entity which hasn't existed (properly) in over thirty years. His sets have incorporated more Zeppelin numbers recently, because, guess what, that's what people want to hear -- they're nostalgic for Led Zeppelin.

As to his not having an "ego"...well, while I do think he's much more level-headed than the "golden god" Plant of the 1970s, watch any of the recent interviews with him...it's still there, and it will always be there, because of who he is and what he's done.

Melcore, the link between Plant and leaders and public figures is that all of them, at some level, are driven by a need for attention -- to get girls, to get money, to get fame, and so on. It's common, in the field of management, to see leaders who hang on to long -- again, Joe Paterno is the exemplar. He needed the adulation of Penn State loyalists and he resisted many attempts by the governing board to get him to retire. That ego got out of hand, and most people believe it had a little something to do with an 80-year-old legend just didn't have the energy, courage or judgment to deal with the messy situation that developed there. (But, really, I hope this doesn't become a debate about Penn St, I'm just offering it as an example. Many, many leaders cling to their jobs for the prestige.)

As for Plant cashing in on the nostalgia, it's a fair point that he doesn't have to do any of the Zeppelin songs. But you obviously realize that, if he just played all the old hits in the classic way, he could play 20,000 seat arenas; and if he played with JP and JPJ, he could play 100,000 seat stadiums. So how can you call this low-key tour an attempt to "cash in"....?

[dimestoreguru]

As much as I'd love to see Zep reunite as I was just a bit too young to see them, there is probably not an artist I have more respect for for than Robert Plant! He knows what he wants to do and is has an unbelievable breadth of music knowledge, is so sharp and is quite certain where his current path will lead him!

The actor Dan Aykroyd , in an interview many years ago at the Atlantic Records concert said that Robert Plant was the most interesting person and had the most knowledge about music and the blues he had ever met. He was overwhelmed when meeting him.

Thanks very much, Super Dave. That's really interesting about Aykroyd.

Plant seemed to say, right after he started his solo career, that he was hell bent on not following the model of his idol Elvis -- putting on weight and mailing in some performances in Vegas. He's stayed true to that, even with all the $ and glory that could've come his way.

I give Jagger a ton of credit for how well he's able to do his thing, on the verge of turning 70. It's amazing. But it's still closer to the Late Elvis model than to the Plant model. Not everyone has to do it Plant's way, but Plant's way shows a much healthier and balanced ego. The Golden God should get a lot of credit for growing old in such a dignfied way.

[Geezer]

Thanks, Cookie. I'm not paid by Forbes, I'm just an unpaid contributor who gets to offer career advice and management advice in a conversational way that gradually helps my own writing and consulting brand. I decided to do this piece out of my lifelong love for Zeppelin.

You're right, the state of journalism and publishing has changed a lot because people like me are willing to do this stuff for free. But to pass up the chance to tie some of these issues to what one of my heroes is out there doing? Nah....

I'd say the article is very well-written, but I disagree with you about some things and I also think you're a bit overanalyzing the situation. I seriously doubt Robert could be a model for any CEO - it's just comparing apples and oranges (to me, at least. If anything, there are many musicians who have had a much more successful and versatile solo career than Plant, with Paul McCartney being a prime example.

However, I'd say Peter Grant and Richard Cole can be models for many band and tour managers.

As for Plant cashing in on the nostalgia, it's a fair point that he doesn't have to do any of the Zeppelin songs. But you obviously realize that, if he just played all the old hits in the classic way, he could play 20,000 seat arenas; and if he played with JP and JPJ, he could play 100,000 seat stadiums. So how can you call this low-key tour an attempt to "cash in"....?

Sorry, I think you're completely misundstanding the issue. Plant has basically spent his entire carrer playing to sold-out stadiums. It wasn't until last few years that he switched to smaller arenas. Also, money means nothing to him now because he's already a multi-millionaire.

[ScarletMacaw]

I agree with Melcore and Cookie.

Frankly, I think the article is baloney. Sorry. What could be more narcissistic than indulging your so-called "authentic self" instead of giving your millions of fans (not to mention your bandmates from Led Zeppelin) what they want? Narcissism is about self-indulgence; the antithesis of narcissism is self-sacrifice. Methinks you misunderstand the word narcissism (I'm assuming you meant pathological narcissism).

One of the reasons journalism has gone down the toilet is because anybody and everybody is peddling their opinions as "journalism," sometimes for free, in which case, what is their payoff except attention (narcissism again!) or promotion of something else they're selling. Publications (now including formerly esteemed publications such as Forbes and The New York Times) are now full of this stuff and strangely, they continue to lose readers!

[dimestoreguru]

I agree with Melcore and Cookie.

Frankly, I think the article is baloney. Sorry. What could be more narcissistic than indulging your so-called "authentic self" instead of giving your millions of fans (not to mention your bandmates from Led Zeppelin) what they want? Narcissism is about self-indulgence; the antithesis of narcissism is self-sacrifice. Methinks you misunderstand the word narcissism (I'm assuming you meant pathological narcissism).

One of the reasons journalism has gone down the toilet is because anybody and everybody is peddling their opinions as "journalism," sometimes for free, in which case, what is their payoff except attention (narcissism again!) or promotion of something else they're selling. Publications (now including formerly esteemed publications such as Forbes and The New York Times) are now full of this stuff and strangely, they continue to lose readers!

A fair enough perspective, thank you, ScarletMacaw.

[nat431]

Thanks very much, Super Dave. That's really interesting about Aykroyd.

Plant seemed to say, right after he started his solo career, that he was hell bent on not following the model of his idol Elvis -- putting on weight and mailing in some performances in Vegas. He's stayed true to that, even with all the $ and glory that could've come his way.

I give Jagger a ton of credit for how well he's able to do his thing, on the verge of turning 70. It's amazing. But it's still closer to the Late Elvis model than to the Plant model. Not everyone has to do it Plant's way, but Plant's way shows a much healthier and balanced ego. The Golden God should get a lot of credit for growing old in such a dignfied way.

I don't know what you mean by "Plant's way". Are you talking about more modest ticket prices and playing to smaller venues? And is that supposed to reveal something of a higher nature or be more ethical in some way? It seems to me that as someone else mentioned, Plant would be playing to larger crowds or bigger venues if he could sell out the tickets. And isn't his "way" that you describe just more in keeping with the type of music he is doing now...The kind of band and music he has done over the years esp. since the Alison Krause days...a little more on the "folksie" side (ethnically and otherwise)?

[the chase]

Exactly what do you like in Jimmy's post-Zep endeavors?

Death Wish 2 is my #1 all time film soundtrack.

I wish he did more of this type of stuff..

I loved Coverdale Page album

Loved Whatever happened to Jugular?

Liked Outrider a lot... Saw the Outrider Tour in 88

Liked The Firm ... didn't love it. Saw this as well.. 1st US tour

Loved him working with The Black Crowes.

I really liked No Quarter but it took years to come around because i was pissed for JPJ.

Not a huge Clarksdale fan .... but that tour was incredible

I really enjoyed IT MIGHT GET LOUD, and NET AID.

I even like Come With Me.. I thought it was a gutsy move..

I admire the role he took as Zeppelin's continued Quality Control leader with the remasters and DVD projects..

but I would have liked more solo studio output from him.

Could he have done more? of course.. but what he has done for the most part I've liked a lot.

[Disco Duck]

Death Wish 2 is my #1 all time film soundtrack.

I wish he did more of this type of stuff....

This could have been a good way for him to remain active as a musician without having to tour or worry about record sales, etc.

[Cookie0024]

I agree with Melcore and Cookie.

Frankly, I think the article is baloney. Sorry. What could be more narcissistic than indulging your so-called "authentic self" instead of giving your millions of fans (not to mention your bandmates from Led Zeppelin) what they want? Narcissism is about self-indulgence; the antithesis of narcissism is self-sacrifice. Methinks you misunderstand the word narcissism (I'm assuming you meant pathological narcissism).

One of the reasons journalism has gone down the toilet is because anybody and everybody is peddling their opinions as "journalism," sometimes for free, in which case, what is their payoff except attention (narcissism again!) or promotion of something else they're selling. Publications (now including formerly esteemed publications such as Forbes and The New York Times) are now full of this stuff and strangely, they continue to lose readers!

100% this. Opinion pieces and unpaid contributors are causing established news sites to lose readers at a vast pace. I'm a big advocate of 'Write until someone pays you to write', but my gosh, write on a blog or something.

[dimestoreguru]

100% this. Opinion pieces and unpaid contributors are causing established news sites to lose readers at a vast pace. I'm a big advocate of 'Write until someone pays you to write', but my gosh, write on a blog or something.

(Sigh) Cookie, if you yourself do the journalistic thing, you'd google me and see that I have journalistic, academic and scholarly credentials that outweigh those of the typical general-interest columnist in your supposed golden age of journalism. Forbes has greater readership and more revenue than ever with its new staff-and-contributor model, FYI.

I also make more money for my writing than 99% of journalists. Most of it is ghostwriting for university presidents and top executives. I appreciate Forbes and the Huffington Post as occasional outlets to do my own writing -- and, yes, to occasionally praise my idols when I see an angle.

What's fun for me is to see that article on Robert Plant's website. If you don't agree with it, you don't really need to carry on about the state of journalism.

[Cookie0024]

(Sigh) Cookie, if you yourself do the journalistic thing, you'd google me and see that I have journalistic, academic and scholarly credentials that outweigh those of the typical general-interest columnist in your supposed golden age of journalism. Forbes has greater readership and more revenue than ever with its new staff-and-contributor model, FYI.

I also make more money for my writing than 99% of journalists. Most of it is ghostwriting for university presidents and top executives. I appreciate Forbes and the Huffington Post as occasional outlets to do my own writing -- and, yes, to occasionally praise my idols when I see an angle.

What's fun for me is to see that article on Robert Plant's website. If you don't agree with it, you don't really need to carry on about the state of journalism.

Yes I do the journalism thing. I've written for Forbes, Huffington Post, and I'm a staff writer at a tech site that's launching the month after next. No need to start showing off, I don't care about your credentials. What I care about is the quality of the articles that I read. I felt that the connection you made between Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones and leadership is tenuous at best. I see a lot of posts like yours. Perhaps it's because the kind of thing I write is news. If someone has written about it before, it's PR.

If I don't agree with it, I can carry on. You posted the link on a Led Zeppelin forum. What do you expect? Everyone pats your back? People have opinions.

[Cookie0024]

Also Rob, you might want to chat to your editor, the Twitter link on your Forbes contributor page doesn't work

[BestBandStill]

Thanks dime. Robert is one smart fellow

[LivingLovingHeartbreaker]

Yes I do the journalism thing. I've written for Forbes, Huffington Post, and I'm a staff writer at a tech site that's launching the month after next. No need to start showing off, I don't care about your credentials. What I care about is the quality of the articles that I read. I felt that the connection you made between Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones and leadership is tenuous at best. I see a lot of posts like yours. Perhaps it's because the kind of thing I write is news. If someone has written about it before, it's PR.

If I don't agree with it, I can carry on. You posted the link on a Led Zeppelin forum. What do you expect? Everyone pats your back? People have opinions.

Ok, now i know why you got on to me about a spelling error i made awhile back. :hysterical:

[SuperDave]

Cookie024, I love the Zep info you give here, but I in fact enjoyed Rob's piece on Robert Plant. It was a different perspective and I have felt for a long time that Robert Plant may be one of the smartest and if the smartest musicians out there. He's always known what he wants to do and where his path will take him. I think many in the business world should take Robert's path and apply it to their own business ventures and apply it there. Don't know how to say it otherwise, but perhaps that's the way, but I'm sure someone can cone up with something better. Robert Plant is one of the smartest and sharpest people out there, whether it's in the music or business world. One of the best and he continues to deliver and please, even without folding to you know what!

[dimestoreguru]

Ok, now i know why you got on to me about a spelling error i made awhile back. :hysterical:

LivingLovingHearbreaker, if he's made fun of your writing, you can needle him about using the term "vast pace" in this thread. You can have a "vast space" or a "fast pace," but you can't have a "vast pace."

Cookie, this thread was a tribute to Robert Plant. But you're just dick-measuring now, and yet you seem to be admitting that you're contributing to the journalism problem that you bemoan. Well, if you'd like to discuss it offline, I'd love to hear more about your contributions to journalism and your concerns regarding it, and to offer my own thoughts. Please reach out to me at robasghar@gmail.com. At bare minimum, send me your byline so I can learn something from your own writing style.

SuperDave, thanks again for your thoughts.

[dimestoreguru]

Also Rob, you might want to chat to your editor, the Twitter link on your Forbes contributor page doesn't work

Thanks much for the heads-up, I've alerted them. Do you have a twitter account or website you could share? I suspect I could learn a lot from you. Thanks.

[Janvier]

Hi,

when you first posted this I didn't agree much with what you wrote. Whenever I disagree with someone I try to avoid a bitter exchange of posts, I just move on to the next thread. As an example, contrary to what you state, I believe Plant's shows (some of Plant's shows at least) have been expensive, and I specifically mean those that took place last year in Brazil, Curitiba being an extraordinary case. However, I don't attribute the cost of the shows to a capitalistic intention of "cashing in" on Zeppelin's past, I recognise that there are costs, expenses incurred during a tour, and then charges, taxes that are specific to a country, the combination of which explain the price of a ticket -and yet the fact remains that some shows have been costly. How does the price of a Rolling Stones ticket break down? I don't know.

But the reason I decided to post here is the many allusions to the journalistic profession that have been made in the last few posts. I have been a journalist myself, during a good part of my life, and I wanted to say that during the time I was a journalist I was never concerned with financial retribution, how much I was "making" as a result of being a journalist. That period of my life was one of the most satisfying, fulfilling and exciting I have ever lived. I enjoyed so much what I was doing: writing, learning, travelling to a total of 25 American states during a period of three years, three different countries in three separate continents, that my actual pay was secondary.

It's such a gift in this life to be doing what you actually like. Perhaps that's another lesson we should learn from Mr. Plant, that he plays the music that he wants and loves to play, not what others are expecting of him.

[Geezer]

Perhaps that's another lesson we should learn from Mr. Plant, that he plays the music that he wants and loves to play, not what others are expecting of him.

That's nothing to be proud of.

[SuperDave]

That's nothing to be proud of.

Yes it is and very much indeed.! Being an artist it shows that Robert has his own direction, isn't predictable and won't necessarily give the people what they want. That's being creative and I respect him for that!

[Geezer]

So you're giving Robert credit for being one of the hundreds of millions of musicians who play what they want and what they love?