Jimmy's food poisoning Chicago 1977

[ANONYMOUS]

Led Zeppelin: Sound and Fury Neal Preston had this to say about that night.

There was a night in Chicago I believe, the band came out and started the set and I could tell something was wrong with Jimmy. He did not look good. He looked very, very strange. Not so much ill or sick but something else was going on, almost demonic. And I never subscribed to the whole Jimmy Page black magic thing whether or not it’s true, I don’t know. But something was different, and his hair was different, and something was going on.

So they start the show and they play three or four songs and I remember they were playing “Ten Years (sic) On” and Jimmy very uncharacteristically is sitting on the drum riser while he’s playing. Well something obviously is going on and during the middle of that song; Peter comes out from the wings, right on to the stage, doing this (waving arms), like “Stop. Stop. Stop.” And Peter stops the show. This is three or four songs into the show.

Now something is very wrong and I didn’t know what it was and I was in front of the stage. I think I was up an aisle, kind of the middle of the house but I could tell something’s up and I go backstage. And uh, I get back stage just as Richard has Jimmy almost in his arms. Jimmy’s wearing the robe that they used to wear after the gig was over when they’d go from the stage to the limo into the plane. And Richard is dragging Jimmy who looked fairly lifeless.

And I had a camera with me and my hand’s on the camera and Richard captures my eye and looks at me, and his look said, “Don’t even think about shooting this.” I could tell. Now, the photojournalist in me wants to shoot that picture. I didn’t know what was going on for all I know Jimmy Page could be dying. The Led Zeppelin employee in me says, “Listen to Richard, don’t you dare.” So I didn’t shoot a picture.

However, that night I get called up to Peter’s room and Peter says to me, “I need you to do something for me. Take the photos and the film from tonight and don’t develop them. Just get rid of the film. Because we’ve never had to cancel a show before…” Basically he said it was an anomaly and it was a bad vibe and do that.

And I .. that film stayed in my…well, I did develop the film. The negatives stayed in my drawers for years and years until I even looked at the proofs. I mean I looked at them quickly and never did anything with them. I kept them tucked away. And uh, you could see and there are a couple of the photos in this book and you could see that Jimmy looks different. And he does look demonic in them and I don’t know what was going on but I will never forget Richard dragging Jimmy right by me with that look that Richard shot me. And Jimmy was out of it, so um, that’s something I wish I had shot but I didn’t shoot.

[Disco Duck]

...I think Jimmy is similar to Michael Jackson - early success, secrecy, costumes and imagery, drive, addiction, eating issues, victim mentality, masterful creative appropriation, need for control, abuse of power, even the effeminate mannerisms and voice...

I would have never thought to compare these two artists but you maybe onto something. I'm old enough to remember when MJ's stage attire and hair were similar to those other young male R & B artists wore. IIRC, his new look debuted around the time Off The Wall was released. I always assumed LIttle Richard was one of his sartorial inspirations, but who knows? Maybe Page also influenced MJ's public persona. I don't know if the two ever met but MJ would certainly have been aware of Led Zeppelin.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Disco Duck

[Patrycja]

I agree 100% particularly about the part in bold. Whatever 'inspired' Page to do it, or how it was subsequently explained, anything short of a mea culpa (which I don't recall ever occurring) falls short. That's not about public shaming or policing public people's lives, but that costume has such a particularly deep sting, to this day, for literally millions of people, those in my family included. Even back in the day when I lived and breathed all things Zep, this one never felt comfortable and there was just no excusing it. I wonder whether it is in his photo autobiography and if so, what the caption says.

Superior health care because of extreme wealth, pharmaceutical grade substances, and unusual constitutions enabled Jimmy (and Keith) to out-consume many peers and remain, if not standing, at least sitting on the drum riser for a few songs. If one reads between the lines about the Page & Plant and Page & the Black Crowes eras, Jimmy struggled through the 90s, too.

People are accountable only to those personally impacted by their addiction but I do wish Jimmy reveled less in some other aspects of his past. The Nazi storm trooper costume always makes me cringe. I've read about the source of inspiration but I never saw it as cool or sexy - only offensive.




To be clear, I'm not commenting on your your avatar. I see the white hat. I'm just thinking of the Chicago 77 shows and the mindset of someone deep in addiction not food poisoning. (For more on this, I could post Neal Preston's remarks about this night if anyone is interested.)

Interesting insights in the MJ comparison, ANONYMOUS. It's remarkable what Zep (as with so many others in the fame game) got away with. Then again, you can't hide forever. Despite what people thought they knew about MJ, when the final curtain was pulled back, it was a sad, disturbing scene.

One recent response that struck me in one of Page's interviews about why he chose photos not words for his autobiography was that this approach would ward off potential lawsuits (paraphrasing). Cagey and secretive to the end.

It seems that some combination of the charactersitics you mentioned have held him back as well. Still, here he is coherent and doing some projects that are clearly dear to him. Kudos to him for getting through to the other side of addiction and persevering in his own way today, rather than being a sad footnote to substance abuse.

Or enable them. I never subscribed to the shock theory of the stormtrooper garb. Military wear has long been incorporated into fashion and Nazi uniforms were designed and produced by Hugo Boss but I think his descent into addiction made him oblivious to revealing aspects of his private life. I'll leave it at that.

I never see him as a disciplined perfectionist. I see him as an emotional, controlling, obssessive. Characteristics common in geniuses not used to insult him but as explanation for why he was able to create masterpieces in such a short amount of time.

Whatever was between them was destroyed by addiction and corruption but I don't think it activated the addiction. Being surrounded by people who only ever say yes - that might be a problem for a wealthy addict.

I think Jimmy is similar to Michael Jackson - early success, secrecy, costumes and imagery, drive, addiction, eating issues, victim mentality, masterful creative appropriation, need for control, abuse of power, even the effeminate mannerisms and voice.

All of the good and some of the bad among these things would be hard to refuse when you are young, rich, talented, and on top of the world.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Patrycja

[ANONYMOUS]

that costume has such a particularly deep sting, to this day, for literally millions of people, those in my family included. Even back in the day when I lived and breathed all things Zep, this one never felt comfortable and there was just no excusing it. I wonder whether it is in his photo autobiography and if so, what the caption says.

Cagey and secretive to the end.

It seems that some combination of the charactersitics you mentioned have held him back as well. Still, here he is coherent and doing some projects that are clearly dear to him. Kudos to him for getting through to the other side of addiction and persevering in his own way today, rather than being a sad footnote to substance abuse.

There are 3 photos in the book. Under the most famous one (and the one he sells on his website) the caption is, "During the 1977 tour I began to alternate between the white poppy suit and black outfits. Here I'm wearing Hugo Boss." (For On This Day, he referred to it as, "the stormtrooper outfit.")

Other sources comment on him wearing the outfit frequently, off-stage at public and private events.

It's curious that no interviewer has ever asked him about this. His stage costumes are frequently discussed as iconic so it's inconceivable this one would not be brought up, especially since it appears he's quite fond of it.

Yes, it's about the music but he well knows the imagery he evoked is part and parcel of the legend. Why else would he twice sell a book of photographs and art prints?

Then again, he only ever allows controlled interviews which is why they (the interviews) are so rarely interesting when he as a subject is so fascinating.

In Robert's latest interview, he discusses having had the freedom to fail and how it liberated him. It takes tremendous courage and a strong emotional support to take those risks.

[Patrycja]

There are 3 photos in the book. Under the most famous one (and the one he sells on his website) the caption is, "During the 1977 tour I began to alternate between the white poppy suit and black outfits. Here I'm wearing Hugo Boss." (For On This Day, he referred to it as, "the stormtrooper outfit.")

Other sources comment on him wearing the outfit frequently, off-stage at public and private events.

It's curious that no interviewer has ever asked him about this. His stage costumes are frequently discussed as iconic so it's inconceivable this one would not be brought up, especially since it appears he's quite fond of it.

Yes, it's about the music but he well knows the imagery he evoked is part and parcel of the legend. Why else would he twice sell a book of photographs and art prints?

Then again, he only ever allows controlled interviews which is why they (the interviews) are so rarely interesting when he as a subject is so fascinating.

In Robert's latest interview, he discusses having had the freedom to fail and how it liberated him. It takes tremendous courage and a strong emotional support to take those risks.

"Here I'm wearing Hugo Boss"?! It's a wonder, indeed, why nobody ever asked him about it. Either some journos were unabashed fans or just didn't have the stones to bring it up. Look, I don't know when he wore it off-stage last or how he feels about it today, but about its ever being worn in the first place, well, it's bottom of the barrel stuff, isn't it? Leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

[Chicago]

Having been at this show I can say nobody was outraged enough to get up and leave. It was a great show regardless of choice of outfit.

I wonder if those bothered by Page's attire at this show are equally offended by what David Bowie and Eric Clapton were saying and doing during this same time frame.

[SteveAJones]

Other sources comment on him wearing the outfit frequently, off-stage at public and private events.

There is no evidence to support this claim whatsoever.

[Sue Dounim]

Is the stormtrooper outfit really something to be offended by? I strongly doubt Jimmy Page of all people is or would be a supporter of nazism.

[Pagefan55]

^^^ I don't think it was anything to be offended by. I think his decision was probably inspired by the punk movement. (shock value). Or perhaps a joking reference to S/M. Or perhaps he just thought it looked cool....who cares.

[ANONYMOUS]

I wonder if those bothered by Page's attire at this show are equally offended by what David Bowie and Eric Clapton were saying and doing during this same time frame.

Yes but this is an LZ Forum.

There is no evidence to support this claim whatsoever.

So you're suggesting the sources (Neal Preston, Pamela Des Barres, Rat Scabies, edited to add > Sam Aizer) are lying - all of them have noted it in it various publications.

Is the stormtrooper outfit really something to be offended by?

Yes, it is. Why is that so hard to believe?

^^^ I don't think it was anything to be offended by. I think his decision was probably inspired by the punk movement. (shock value). Or perhaps a joking reference to S/M. Or perhaps he just thought it looked cool....who cares.

We don't really know because NO ONE (that I know of) has ever asked about it. The punk movement was anti-fascist to my recollection. I think, you mean skinheads.

Edited November 23, 2014 by ANONYMOUS

[Sathington Willoughby]

So you're suggesting the sources (Neal Preston, Pamela Des Barres, Rat Scabies, edited to add > Sam Aizer) are lying - all of them have noted it in it various publications.

Gotta trust the credibility of someone named Rat Scabies...

(Just joshing you ANONYMOUS, I could see how people would find it offensive/in bad taste, regardless of his intentions)

[Chicago]

Or enable them. I never subscribed to the shock theory of the stormtrooper garb. Military wear has long been incorporated into fashion and Nazi uniforms were designed and produced by Hugo Boss but I think his descent into addiction made him oblivious to revealing aspects of his private life. I'll leave it at that.

I never see him as a disciplined perfectionist. I see him as an emotional, controlling, obssessive. Characteristics common in geniuses not used to insult him but as explanation for why he was able to create masterpieces in such a short amount of time.

Whatever was between them was destroyed by addiction and corruption but I don't think it activated the addiction. Being surrounded by people who only ever say yes - that might be a problem for a wealthy addict.

I think Jimmy is similar to Michael Jackson - early success, secrecy, costumes and imagery, drive, addiction, eating issues, victim mentality, masterful creative appropriation, need for control, abuse of power, even the effeminate mannerisms and voice.

---------------------------

What's your agenda?or is it a vendetta.

Id love to read your psychological profiles on the other 3 members.

[ANONYMOUS]

Gotta trust the credibility of someone named Rat Scabies...

(Just joshing you ANONYMOUS, I could see how people would find it offensive/in bad taste, regardless of his intentions)

I know, right?

Dumb punk name for drummer for the Damned, who claims he later auditioned for Jimmy. Anyway, I got it wrong, it was Jake Riveria, the "punk" Peter Grant.

[ANONYMOUS]

What's your agenda?or is it a vendetta.

Id love to read your psychological profiles on the other 3 members.

My vendetta? Or agenda? Seriously? What's yours, now that you're stalking my posts?

I'm fascinated by geniuses who make an impact on history and seek to understand their motivations. Jimmy has always been the most engimatic member so there is some pleasure in trying to decipher his personality.

If you wantto know what I think about the other members, continue your stalking. (edited for grammatical correction).

Edited November 23, 2014 by ANONYMOUS

[Chicago]

Dont compliment yourself. I was at this show and it was phenomenal!

[IpMan]

Neal Preston pretty much put to bed the reason why Jimmy had and wore the outfit. Supposedly both Jimmy and Richard Cole were obsessed by some S&M porno movie they had on VHS and one of the main characters was a female nazi in full regalia.

So, take equal parts smack & alcohol addiction, love of a bad porno, and the encouragement of an equally addicted idiot (Richard Cole) and this is what you get. Don't read too much into this people, just some doped up rock star who did a pretty stupid thing at the time (go figure).

I was at this show too and I did not care what Jimmy or anyone else was wearing, the show was blistering, amazing, one of the best from the first leg of the tour.That was the ONLY thing I cared about. Shit, if Peter Gabriel could appear on stage as a damn turd while performing with Genesis I am sure a nazi hat and some boots is not quite as bad as it could have been.

[Disco Duck]

Shit, if Peter Gabriel could appear on stage as a damn turd while performing with Genesis I am sure a nazi hat and some boots is not quite as bad as it could have been.

Really? He actually wore a turd costume on stage? I'm trying to imagine what such a costume would look like beside being a revolting shade of brown.

[strutter806]

I would like to think it was apunk influence for the nazi regalia. But if you lived and were raised in Europe when WWII actually happened!! You could probably get away with the dress, it's a statement or an "in your face" thing.

[SteveAJones]

So you're suggesting the sources (Neal Preston, Pamela Des Barres, Rat Scabies, edited to add > Sam Aizer) are lying - all of them have noted it in it various publications.

I'm suggesting there is no evidence whatsoever to support their claims. You have PM'd me their anecdotes, and I appreciate that. The thing about anecdotes, particularly from Pamela, is that they are often times incorrect. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case here, but in lieu of any tangible evidence (such as a photograph) we have to take their words at face value, which is something I'm normally reluctant to do.

Preston apparently saw Jimmy wearing it backstage the night prior to it's onstage appearance, and that sounds plausible.

Aizer claims Jimmy was wearing it when he went to see Bad Company in Fort Worth...perhaps.

Rat Scabies claims Jimmy was wearing it when he and Robert went to see The Damned...perhaps.

Miss Pamela claims Jimmy was wearing it offstage...perhaps.

I know, right?

Dumb punk name for drummer for the Damned, who claims he later auditioned for Jimmy. Anyway, I got it wrong, it was Jake Riveria, the "punk" Peter Grant.

Rat Scabies did audition with Jimmy at Nomis Studios in London on January 30, 1984...I have the recording. Jimmy had held open auditions at Nomis for nearly four months and Rat Scabies was one of many musicians who jammed with Jimmy during this time.

[Patrycja]

I'm equally surprised and not at the reactions to the Stormtrooper outfit. We both vilify and exalt famous people we're fans (or not) of, and so when one of them does or says something questionable or shocking, a huge reaction ensues. Think John Lennon and his Jesus comment. But famous people are also strangely sheltered from criticism, as seems to be the case here.

It does matter, though not exclusively because Page wore it. Maybe people weren't affected by the outfit and focused on the performance. Ok fine. But that does not mean we should not be asking about it. We have instances today like when Zara made kids' pajamas that resembled concentration camp uniforms and they were lambasted, or when Nicki Minaj had Nazi-like costumes/symbols in one of her recent videos to which there was a strong public reaction.

Say Page actually makes an album and tours in 2015, what do you think the chances are that he dusts off the Stormtrooper outfit? Zero to nil? He and his handlers know well enough to leave it be.

Explanations of 'inspiration' from a SM porn video, or of it being drug/alcohol induced only go so far. I get it, nobody wants to be reminded of questionable things they did in the past that they cannot now change (unless it's something which requires restitution and justice, right Bill Cosby?). But Page did include it in his photo autobiography (which is fine), with the woefully vacant caption: "Here I am wearing Hugo Boss." That's it? See nobody has directly probed him about it, and here is another instance of the outfit being presented as seemingly inocuous even after all this time, with him clear minded and sober. The porn flick may well have been the original spark, but he is surely not ignorant of the larger impact of that uniform. Why not, in the perpsective of a mature man reflecting, offer instead something like "Here I am wearing Hugo Boss, a regrettable choice in retrospect" or the like? Because nobody dares to ask.

I'm not accusing Page of sympathizing, but if he includes it in a book, the inquiry is legitimate, and if his explanation is legitimate, it will stand up to scrutiny.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Patrycja

[Elixir]

Interesting thread. It actually isn't a porno but a movie called The Night Porter (which doesn't sound any less like a porno).

I think the understated "here I am in Hugo Boss" caption was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, although maybe it's also vacant; at any rate it was far from any sort of explanation, which he apparently doesn't want to give. I do remember a quote from him saying that it was for shock value and that for any art to really reach its audience, it has to shock, or something to that effect. (Sorry, I don't have a citation.) I think that's BS; what, was The Song Remains the Same supposed to have more of an impact on the audience because he was in a Nazi uniform? He obviously wore it as an homage to S&M and to look "cool."

It also raises a question of whether certain parts of the Nazi look can ever be glamourized or seen as cool. It sounds like Minaj ran into this problem recently. I know there have been t-shirts (and apparently even http://www.entertainmentearth.com/images/AUTOIMAGES/KBJP200lg.jpg figurines) made with him in the costume, which make me uncomfortable, but others must agree with that assessment and disregard the subtext in the outfit (assuming they are not actual Nazi sympathizers, and I think neither JP nor most people are). A sidenote: I sort of wonder how many people instantly identify that outfit as a Nazi uniform, especially since there's no swastika or red and black.

Putting the outfit discussion aside, I'm unsure if this has been posted much earlier on the thread, but you can see some photos that were supposedly taken this night on this page: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1071817 If you read through the posts, you'll see someone say that he heard from a tour worker that he took angel dust rather than coke that night, which might explain why he could play through all the other nights when he was on coke, heroin, and/or alcohol but not PCP.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Elixir

[IpMan]

Ya know I remember Jimmy saying something during an interview in the mid-70's, something along the lines of him being the "fuhrer of the fourth reich" in regards to how Zeppelin took to the masses in much the same was as national socialism (nazi's) took to the German volk (people) in the 1930's. As the Germans were hungry for leadership after the failure of the Weimar Republic, the record buying public were hungry for great music following the break up of Cream and the eventual self destruction of Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Allman, and Graham Parsons. So, there might be a connection, although a misguided one I admit.

Also his caption, "here I am wearing Hugo Boss" might be interpreted as an indictment of human nature. IE: Hugo Boss, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Pfizer, etc are all German companies and individuals who used slave labor and supported the Nazi machine, however at wars end instead of these folk being held responsible for their crimes the world instead embraced their products as if nothing criminal had happened. We have academy award wining actors & actresses, Presidents and Prime Ministers all wearing Hugo Boss and driving their Mercedes while pumping themselves full of drugs supplied by the very same German pharma companies which funded such luminaries as Dr. Josph Mengele.

Who knows, artists think in artistic terms and frequently ignore the obvious implications in search for higher meaning. I guess in the end only Jimmy knows for sure what his intention and meaning were that night.

[SteveAJones]

I guess in the end only Jimmy knows for sure what his intention and meaning were that night.

Yes, and it's amazing to see so many people refuse to accept HIS explanation at face value.

[SteveAJones]

This from ANONYMOUS:

I’m With the Band, Pamela Des Barres, page 239

Pamela Des Barres:“We saw a lot of Zeppelin and they were not aging gracefully… Jimmy wore a Third Reich costume, made the “Heil Hitler” gesture…”

Rock Bottom, Pamela Des Barres, page 46

Linda Alderetti (Rainbow Bar& Grill employee, companion of Bonham's): “Jimmy was in his Nazi uniform spending half his time in drag bars ”

Led Zeppelin - Photographs by Neal Preston, page 146

Neal Preston: “No, I mean he wore it more than one night. He only wore it on stage one night.”

Trampled Under Foot, Barry Hoskyns, page 327

Jake Rivera (Artist Manager/Co-Founder Stiff Records): “Jimmy and Robert came to see The Damned. I was at the door when they arrived. I remember it because Jimmy was wearing his fucking Luftwaffe outfit.”

Trampled Under Foot, Barry Hoskyns, page 378

Jack Calmes (Co-founder, Showco): “I showed up on the third date at the start of the (Chicago, April 6, 1977) tour… Jimmy was prancing around in his storm trooper uniform backstage, goose stepping and stuff. It didn’t go down too well with Steve Weiss.” (He wore it on stage April 7, 1977.)

Trampled Under Foot, Barry Hoskyns, page 380

Sam Aizer (Swan Song employee): “I saw him in the storm trooper outfit after a Bad Company show in Forth Worth. I said to myself, “What the fuck is that?”

[SteveAJones]

Jimmy as a storm trooper? It's a cool look but it not all that unique...

Mick Jagger wearing the Nazi symbol on his t-shirt as a fashion statement...Keith wearing Nazi jacket for a television appearance:

http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,1911959,page=1

Keith Richards wore the SS uniform to Mick & Bianca's wedding. I've seen it written about in many accounts. Here's one:

In May 1971, Mick Jagger married Bianca, at a small, whitewashed chapel on a hillside above St. Tropez. The British blues singer Terry Reid remembers having later gone to a room in the nearby Hotel Byblos where he and other Jagger guests could change before the reception.

“By and by we could hear a clanking noise growing ever louder,” Reid said. “It was coming down the corridor towards us. Clanking and rattling; very weird. All of a sudden it stopped right outside. The door swung open, and everyone did a double take.

“A man stood on the threshold. He was in full Nazi uniform. He seemed to be standing to attention, all SS tunic, with an Iron Cross or two dangling round his neck, and black jackboots. It was Keith.”

---------------

Richards had rented Nellcôte for its privacy — huge palm trees and a woodland preserve keep it free from prying eyes —and because he was amused that the place had been used as the local Gestapo headquarters during the Nazi occupation of France in World War II. The metal grates for the heating vents of the villa still bore swastika emblems.

http://nicebrighton.wordpress.com/2011/02/05/villa-nellcote-villefranche-birthplace-of-exile-in-main-street/

In Keith's case it could have more to do with his girlfriend, Anita Pallenberg. When they were still a couple she had considered producing a film on the life of Leni Reifenstahl, the official government photographer during the Third Reich. Prior to her relationship with Keith, she was dating Brian Jones, and she persuaded Brian on one occasion to pose for the cover of a German magazine wearing a Nazi SS uniform while crushing a doll underfoot.