Jimmy Page the master composer of his era

[sweetjellyroll]

I consider this statement to be true.Listen to the acoustics thruout Zepp IV.

Who would have thought to put Bonzo's drum kit in the hallway and mount multiple mikes

up the staircase to give that incredible drum sound famously heard on When the levee breaks.

Sampled by many.

The Eastern tones on Kashmir

The incredible guitar mixes on Achilles last stand.

But most of all his incredible improvisation skills,the twists and turns thruout Dazed and confused

at the live performances,like a composer he dictated the pace and having Bonzo and Jonesy, who knew the drill,the end result was nothing short of breathtaking.

I remember Steve Tyler at Hall of fame speech saying he sat watching Dazed and Confused and Fuckin' cried.

The Mozart of the 20th Century,without doubt.

[GetTheLedOut]

Look, he was good, but it's a lot easier to write a five minute song than a real symphony. Frankly, I don't think the two music styles are comparable as they are built on two different kinds of ideas.

[sweetjellyroll]

I take your point and its valid.To me it doesn't matter how long a piece of music is.

What matters is the feeling inside it creates.

[GetTheLedOut]

I take your point and its valid.To me it doesn't matter how long a piece of music is.

What matters is the feeling inside it creates.

My argument is not that the length of the music makes the difference, but rock music is a different kind of music than classical.

Rock by nature is a minimalistic style. Even elaborate compositions by groups like Zep and Floyd, hell even the Who's operas for example are minimalistic by nature when compared to the classical style. When you reduce the amount of instrumentation down to just a few people it will be minimalistic, which is what rock music does (numbers of players in a group is usually between 2 to 6). Classical music by comparison does work with vast orchestras, and it's not just that you have more people playing, you have many more different pieces playing over each other. There is way more going on in classical music than in rock music with few exceptions, and because of that the styles just aren't comparable. Rock music will never be able to create the same sweeping soundscapes of classical, and classical will never be as catchy and emotionally charged as rock music.

[sweetjellyroll]

Yes, the musical styles are worlds apart.To say it is minimalistic,maybe.

But i dont see mozart concerts selling out arenas night after night.

And i don't call 300 million album sales minimalistic.

The music holds up today as back in the 70's and probably they will still be for centuries.

Maybe this is a silly comparison,but the fever this reunion has created says it all for me.

[Ramci]

But i dont see mozart concerts selling out arenas night after night.

And i don't call 300 million album sales minimalistic.

... which tells nothing about Page's composing abilities, sorry.

Robin Williams sells well, how about that.

[Tea41]

I kinda agree, Page was at least the Paganini of the 70's. He had more talent than anyone else overall and wrote the most effective, memorable pieces, at least in the rock/acoustic genre.

[sweetjellyroll]

I agree there are artists out there who sell millions,TODAY.

Tomorrow is a different story,when u consistantly appeal to generations.

Thats the difference between great composers and Here today,gone tomorrow performers.

[Led Zeppelin Fan00]

Plant called him the 'Maestro', for many good reasons...

[sweetjellyroll]

His contribution to rock music has been unequaled in my view.

I know a comparison to a famous composer as Mozart may not hold water with some on this site.

Yes the music is worlds apart,but why do Zepp have such universal appeal.

Why do my girls prefer to listen to Zepp than bands of their own era.

The music of today is lame in comparison,thats the reason.

Kids today are looking for the next spark to ignite a frenzy.

How come this band is the catalyst,How come so many of you visit this site.

If it was out there already,we wouldn't be here.

He is a genious and deserves adulation for creating what IS rock music in all its forms.

The light,dark,soft,heavy which touches people in ways no other music can.

[GetTheLedOut]

I agree there are artists out there who sell millions,TODAY.

Tomorrow is a different story,when u consistantly appeal to generations.

Thats the difference between great composers and Here today,gone tomorrow performers.

That still doesn't make Page a composer in the same sense that Mozart was. There really is no connection.

[GetTheLedOut]

I kinda agree, Page was at least the Paganini of the 70's. He had more talent than anyone else overall and wrote the most effective, memorable pieces, at least in the rock/acoustic genre.

I don't agree with that. There were several people on the same level as Page. I know we all love Page and Zeppelin here, but they weren't the only ones who knew how to write, rock, etc.

[sweetjellyroll]

Name me a band in the last 50 years which has created a fenzy on this scale.

You may think this argument between classical and rock as non valid.

But how else can a comparison between true great composers be made.

Led Zeppelin are the biggest rock group to set foot on American soil.

Often hounded by critics in my own country,who have totally lost the plot.

Their persona,attitude and most of all their appreciation of their audience

makes them true greats.

[GetTheLedOut]

Name me a band in the last 50 years which has created a fenzy on this scale.

You may think this argument between classical and rock as non valid.

But how else can a comparison between true great composers be made.

Led Zeppelin are the biggest rock group to set foot on American soil.

Often hounded by critics in my own country,who have totally lost the plot.

Their persona,attitude and most of all their appreciation of their audience

makes them true greats.

Well that's all very nice, but that still has nothing to do with compositional ability. Sorry, move on.

[GetTheLedOut]

Name me a band in the last 50 years which has created a fenzy on this scale.

You may think this argument between classical and rock as non valid.

But how else can a comparison between true great composers be made.

Led Zeppelin are the biggest rock group to set foot on American soil.

Often hounded by critics in my own country,who have totally lost the plot.

Their persona,attitude and most of all their appreciation of their audience

makes them true greats.

Oh and btw, have you heard of the Beatles? I like Zeppelin more but they created a frenzy like none other.

[SteveAJones]

Name me a band in the last 50 years which has created a frenzy on this scale.

The impact of The Beatles on society, while at times overstated, far surpasses

that of Led Zeppelin. (Putting my flame suit on now).

[GetTheLedOut]

The impact of The Beatles on society, while at times overstated, far surpasses

that of Led Zeppelin. (Putting my flame suit on now).

Look, I like Led Zeppelin more than the Beatles, but to say that Zeppelin has had a greater impact is just naive and incorrect.

[sweetjellyroll]

I think you are missing the point here.Lennon annd macartney are composers as is Jimmy Page as is Mozart.

What i am trying to say if you read my original post is ERA ,not one is better than the other.

The style of production and sound of Zepp appeals.That is the point i am trying to make.

What makes people want to spend stupid amounts of money,why are they held in such high acclaim.

[GetTheLedOut]

I think you are missing the point here.Lennon annd macartney are composers as is Jimmy Page as is Mozart.

Ah, no. Mozart is in a class above the rest of those you have listed.

[sweetjellyroll]

In his own style of music agreed.

[GetTheLedOut]

In his own style of music agreed.

Uh, no. Period.

I'm not really one to make comparisons like this where those being compared are so far removed from each other in both type of music and time, but if you're going to do it, there's no competition. I don't think Jimmy Page would even try to argue otherwise.

[Ramci]

Ah, no. Mozart is in a class above the rest of those you have listed.

I COULD be different about this with you but then again, there are limits to my relevatism.

I see this is a pretty doomed conversation but uh, try to understand the difference in magnitude. Page really have done pretty good accoustic work, plenty of good riffs here'n'there, it's all cool. But Mozart has specially composed music for songs requiring more than 10 instruments.

Besides, Page plagariarized a lot and wasn't musically really that genious than let's say Percey or JPJ. Both has shown much more diversity and substance in their music than Page has during his solo career.

The best thing i have heard so far of Page: Jimmy Page was (and is?) an master craftsman when it comes down on thinking effective, appalling riffs and song structures.

But really, you can't really say that Page is master composer just because billion people just happen to buy his album ((protip: STH)).

That is like saying, Robin Williams is the Chopin of our era - because his albums sells well.

QED.

[GetTheLedOut]

I COULD be different about this with you but then again, there are limits to my relevatism.

I see this is a pretty doomed conversation but uh, try to understand the difference in magnitude. Page really have done pretty good accoustic work, plenty of good riffs here'n'there, it's all cool. But Mozart has specially composed music for songs requiring more than 10 instruments.

Besides, Page plagariarized a lot and wasn't musically really that genious than let's say Percey or JPJ. Both has shown much more diversity and substance in their music than Page has during his solo career.

The best thing i have heard so far of Page: Jimmy Page was (and is?) an master craftsman when it comes down on thinking effective, appalling riffs and song structures.

But really, you can't really say that Page is master composer just because billion people just happen to buy his album ((protip: STH)).

That is like saying, Robin Williams is the Chopin of our era - because his albums sells well.

QED.

Well I don't think you give enough credit to Page, he certainly was the most important member of Zeppelin. But otherwise, yes, we're in agreement.

And neither of us is trying to put Page or Zeppelin down, it's just not the same as Mozart. That's all.

[Reggie1971]

The impact of The Beatles on society, while at times overstated, far surpasses

that of Led Zeppelin. (Putting my flame suit on now).

I actually agree. The Beatles did have a greater socio-political impact. But, I think that reveals to a great degree the reason why a lot of rock critics with social agendas had disdain for Zep. The band didn't concern itself much with changing the culture, or aligning itself outwardly with this political cause or that. They were strictly about producing great music.

[Ramci]

Well I don't think you give enough credit to Page, he certainly was the most important member of Zeppelin. But otherwise, yes, we're in agreement.

And neither of us is trying to put Page or Zeppelin down, it's just not the same as Mozart. That's all.

Yeah, maybe i don't... i reliaze that now. Maybe i am too blinded by his unsuccesfulness in solo career then.

Admitetingly, i sound harsher than i intented. I wasn't definitely trying to put Page or Zeppelin down but uh, you know, you kind of might react very anti-thesisingly on comments like "Page.... pure genius *beer circles*".