Walter Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I was under the impression this thread was about Page as a composer, not Zeppelin as a band composing. Zeppelin the band can't hold a candle to Black Sabbath, nor can Page to Iommi, I was thinking that would be common sense. I was actually thinking of many other superior composers from that era. Welcome back. Such as who, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Don't feed the troll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstel Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Zeppelin the band can't hold a candle to Black Sabbath, nor can Page to Iommi, Your delusional! I suggest you put the drugs down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Don't feed the troll! Troll? Why? For speaking a language your in disagreement with. Respectful answers from both The Chase and The Dark Lord, although Zeppelin is far from being as talented as Black Sabbath. To amuse, a short list to name only a few. Iommi , Butler , Ward , Dio , Blackmore , Lord , Gilmour , Waters , Barrett , Santana , Squire , Howe , White , Wakeman , Lee , Lifeson , Peart , Ian Anderson , John Williams , Cage , Cowell , Glass , Reich , Milton Babbitt , Carter , Boulez , Nono , Stockhousen , MacMillan , Monty Alexander , Duke , Mandrill , to name a few. Page and now with us shifting to Zeppelin, to my ears can be at times very unoriginal , borrowed , contrived , repeating , whiney , as opposed to something very original , fresh and creative as Iommi or Black Sabbath. Zeppelin has there moments of goodness, Carouselambra a nice touch, it's no The Writ, but an attempt at something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 So why do you hang out on a Zeppelin board, under various names, if you feel that way? Oh yeah...Don't feed the troll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 So why do you hang out on a Zeppelin board, under various names, if you feel that way? Oh yeah... To check on an old friend. My first time ever on this board was yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Oh, ok.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 All Black sabbath songs are the same, similar riffs, far from being as different or colourful as Zeppelin, same guitar tone, same instruments, no variety, same themes, far worse vocalist and other band members! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Interesting that you hear it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Example of the opposite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Bottom half of post #80 should point you in the correct direction. If not, then everything from both sides will represent a perfect example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The Writ?! You must be joking! It might sound like an iferior(less inventive riffs, especially when compared to Black dog, the Ocean, Hots on for nowhere) version of Dazed or Communication breakdown, but compared to Ten years gone, Stairway, Kashmir or All my love, it's just really totally inferior and that bright part at the end changes nothing, it just makes it a bit brighter, but idea wise, it's not really worth mentioning! And the vocal is laughable compared to Plant's! Sorry for sounding arrogant, but that's how it is! And once you have heard Jonesy's classical piano solos, you just know, it's uncomparable! It's not rock and roll against rock and roll! Its true musical genius, against a dark metal band, that would be cabare musicians, if electricity and records would not exist yet! I know music is no competition, but truth has to be said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathington Willoughby Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The Writ?! You must be joking! It might sound like an iferior(less inventive riffs, especially when compared to Black dog, the Ocean, Hots on for nowhere) version of Dazed or Communication breakdown, but compared to Ten years gone, Stairway, Kashmir or All my love, it's just really totally inferior and that bright part at the end changes nothing, it just makes it a bit brighter, but idea wise, it's not really worth mentioning! And the vocal is laughable compared to Plant's! Sorry for sounding arrogant, but that's how it is! And once you have heard Jonesy's classical piano solos, you just know, it's uncomparable! It's not rock and roll against rock and roll! Its true musical genius, against a dark metal band, that would be cabare musicians, if electricity and records would not exist yet! I know music is no competition, but truth has to be said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Sabbath is a good band, no doubt, but they really do not have the light & shade akin to Zeppelin. The overall writing and composing is better for Zeppelin IMO but to each their own. I would say, to my ears, the best track Sabbath ever did was Megalomania, that was the pinnacle of their creative force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Okay, I'll bite. Who do you like better, Sabbath? Why? I'm not Sabbath but I agree with him. During Page's tenure with Led Zeppelin he wasn't so much composer as he was a sonic architect. This isn't a knock against Mr. Page, by the way. His ability to design and layer Led Zeppelin's music accounts for much of its staying power. It's a different gift than that of say Paul McCartney or Neil Young but it's no less awe inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The Writ?! You must be joking! It might sound like an iferior(less inventive riffs, especially when compared to Black dog, the Ocean, Hots on for nowhere) version of Dazed or Communication breakdown, but compared to Ten years gone, Stairway, Kashmir or All my love, it's just really totally inferior and that bright part at the end changes nothing, it just makes it a bit brighter, but idea wise, it's not really worth mentioning! And the vocal is laughable compared to Plant's! Sorry for sounding arrogant, but that's how it is! And once you have heard Jonesy's classical piano solos, you just know, it's uncomparable! It's not rock and roll against rock and roll! Its true musical genius, against a dark metal band, that would be cabare musicians, if electricity and records would not exist yet! I know music is no competition, but truth has to be said! Lmao! The statement about Plant is just plain halirious Don't be sorry at all, it's np. You don't sound arrogant, maybe a bit naive, but that's ok. I do believe that you believe the post you put together to be accurate, so please don't let my words stand in the way of your enjoyment of good, not great in any sense of the imagination, but good music. I set my standards high, when it comes to what I like to hear. Old friend, I'm here to make you smile, let me know when you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Egads, what a headache of a thread. I'm glad I missed it the first time around, for it is exactly the type of "apples vs. oranges" debate that serves no purpose. I will say this (even though the poster "producergal" is apparently long gone)...if the only way you can make a case for Jimmy Page is by tearing down Mozart, then that suggests you have very little case at all. I don't care how many musical degrees you possess, reducing Mozart's music to a series of curlicues and devoid of emotion proves only that you either haven't listened to much Mozart beyond "Eine Kliene Nachtmusik" or you have an axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Well, on the plus side, Zeppelin and Sabbath are my two favorite bands. As much as I really hate the polarization that occurs in these discussions, it's hard not to Smile at the passion that people have for wonderful music. I feel privileged to love both bands, and to truly respect the fact that these two groups were so mind bogglingly instrumental in broadening the soundscape of rock and roll. As much as we might argue amongst ourselves, Ozzy has repeatedly stated that Led Zeppelin 1 and 2 were influential on Black Sabbath's sound. And, Led Zeppelin were very fond of Black Sabbath as well. Bill Ward and John Bonham were pals, and Tony Iommi and John Bonham were best friends. Bonham was Tony's best man at his wedding. Can't we all just get along like they did? It's okay for both bands to be great. All the superiority claims in the world are purely subjective, as music is a very personal experience. Peace and love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Lmao! The statement about Plant is just plain halirious Don't be sorry at all, it's np. You don't sound arrogant, maybe a bit naive, but that's ok. I do believe that you believe the post you put together to be accurate, so please don't let my words stand in the way of your enjoyment of good, not great in any sense of the imagination, but good music. I set my standards high, when it comes to what I like to hear. Old friend, I'm here to make you smile, let me know when you do. You haven't really said anything, pretty much like the two people that posted after you! Thanks Sathington! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'm not Sabbath but I agree with him. During Page's tenure with Led Zeppelin he wasn't so much composer as he was a sonic architect. This isn't a knock against Mr. Page, by the way. His ability to design and layer Led Zeppelin's music accounts for much of its staying power. It's a different gift than that of say Paul McCartney or Neil Young but it's no less awe inspiring. Ofcourse he was a composer, he just didn't write many vocal melodies and lyrics, like Mccartney did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Sabbath is a good band, no doubt, but they really do not have the light & shade akin to Zeppelin. The overall writing and composing is better for Zeppelin IMO but to each their own. I would say, to my ears, the best track Sabbath ever did was Megalomania, that was the pinnacle of their creative force. Megalomania?! It's even worse then The Writ!' There are no riffs in it, no good ideas, the same thing for eight minutes, no real musicality , creativity or good ideas! And the lyrics are the precursor to all those stupid, negative metal lyrics, that are just so negative and evil and when they try to say something critical about society or religion, they just totally fail! One thing is being against religion to be cool, another is really understanding the problems of it! If you want that, listen to Zappa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Megalomania?! It's even worse then The Writ!' There are no riffs in it, no good ideas, the same thing for eight minutes, no real musicality , creativity or good ideas! And the lyrics are the precursor to all those stupid, negative metal lyrics, that are just so negative and evil and when they try to say something critical about society or religion, they just totally fail! One thing is being against religion to be cool, another is really understanding the problems of it! If you want that, listen to Zappa! What makes my time here rewarding, is reading a thought process, that includes Zappa as a way to prove a point, and then believing you had. No disrespect, just very funny I can understand your obvious anger toward Sabbath, they are the pinnacle your love has never achieved, I get that. But why all the anger over all bud, everything's ok. I wasn't even talking about Sabbath being everything Zeppelin could have only hoped to be, someone else came to that obvious conclusion. I was just stating Page is nothing more then a good composer, and to use the word great when describing the mans music, is very misleading. Your description of Megalomania, has shown your lack of understanding of musicianship, that's not an insult to you, just an understanding that now makes everything else you said, make perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Obviously you don't know many Zappa songs and he is just a part of the argument, not the basis! I don't feel any anger against Black Sabbath, Why would I?! Anger? I'm not like them and I wish them all the best, but it's just not particulary good music, I told you why, you said nothing! You were talking Sabbath are better then Zeppelin, which they are obviously not and you didn't write one good argument and if you say words 'great composer' are misleading, you gonna have to do better then list a few descriptions, that are unbacked and have no ground in reality! Borrowed , contrived , repeating , whiney ? Whiney? What? Borrowed? Rarely!! Repeating? Why are you a Black Sabbath fan then!? Contrived!? What? With all that change from album to album?! You gonna have to do better then that! Atleast back these descriptions better, if you have no better ones! Lack of understanding of musicianship? What musicianship?! Nothing really happens in that song! Except that a singer sings a melody and some poor lyrics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 And hey, let's be friendly, I think every music fan deserves some respect and every music has the right to exist and I wish you enjoying Black Sabbath as much as you can!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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