Ronnie Wood

[mpgunn]

I've been reading Ronnie Woods autobiography. He claims that while he was playing bass in the Jeff Beck Group, their manager, Peter Grant asked Ronnie to be the guitar player in a new group he was putting together. So apparently he goes to Peter Grants office and meets with John Bonham, John Paul Jones and Robert Plant. According to him things didn't click so Peter ends up"hiring" Jimmy Page instead......Now I've been a Zeppelin fan-atic since I was a wee lad and I never ever heard this story before....The story I know is that the Yardbirds broke up, Jimmy inherited the name, found the players, played some shows as the New Yardbirds until Keith Moon told Jimmy that they were going to go down like a Lead Zeppelin....The rest is history..........Has anybody else ever heard this Ron Wood story or is he completely dillusional???

[snapper]

Its widely known that JPJ answered an add that was posted by Jimmy Page who was putting together a band after the demise of the Yardbirds.

Having done session work together in the past, Jones readily replied to 'Jimmy'.

Then Page found Plant, via Terry Reid, and Plant then turned Jimmy on to Bonham.

Woods brain must be toast by now, either that or he's just plain crazy.

[ADOC]

Its widely known that JPJ answered an add that was posted by Jimmy Page who was putting together a band after the demise of the Yardbirds.

Having done session work together in the past, Jones readily replied to 'Jimmy'.

Then Page found Plant, via Terry Reid, and Plant then turned Jimmy on to Bonham.

Woods brain must be toast by now, either that or he's just plain crazy.

Just plain crazy is good answer. Or he forgot what planet hes on.

[SteveAJones]

I've been reading Ronnie Woods autobiography. He claims that while he was playing bass in the Jeff Beck Group, their manager, Peter Grant asked Ronnie to be the guitar player in a new group he was putting together. So apparently he goes to Peter Grants office and meets with John Bonham, John Paul Jones and Robert Plant. According to him things didn't click so Peter ends up"hiring" Jimmy Page instead......Now I've been a Zeppelin fan-atic since I was a wee lad and I never ever heard this story before....The story I know is that the Yardbirds broke up, Jimmy inherited the name, found the players, played some shows as the New Yardbirds until Keith Moon told Jimmy that they were going to go down like a Lead Zeppelin....The rest is history..........Has anybody else ever heard this Ron Wood story or is he completely dillusional???

It never happened. For one thing, Peter Grant's bond with Jimmy Page preceeded Led

Zeppelin's formation by two years. Secondly, it was Page who told Grant towards the

end of the Yardbirds he was thinking of what sort of band he wanted to put together.

Thirdly, Grant and Page met Robert Plant for the first time on the same night. If the

story Ronnie has told here were true it would mean this meeting happened afterward.

This takes us back full circle to the loyalty bond established between Grant and Page

two years prior.

Insofar as Page was "hired" I do beg to differ. It was Jimmy Page who retained the management services of Peter Grant following the demise of The Yardbirds. It was

Jimmy Page who was contacted by JPJ concerning his new band. It was Robert and

John Bonham who were initially brought in on salary to complete Jimmy's new lineup.

Ronnie must have had his tongue firmly in cheek when telling this outrageous story.

[SteveAJones]

Then Peter says that he thought they must have known that he already knew Jimmy.

Sure, Peter would have known Jimmy as he and Big Jim Sullivan were London's premier session guitarists and Peter had gotten into the music business even before then.

He had invested his earnings from his film ventures into his own entertainment transport business (two-mini buses) around 1960. In '61 or '62 he was hired to transport The Shadows to their gigs, and in '63 Don Arden (father of Ozzy Osbourne's wife Sharon)hired Grant as tour manager for Bo Diddley The Everly Brothers, Little Richard, Brian Hyland, and Chuck Berry. He was then hired by Arden as the tour manager for Eddie Cochran, Gene Vincent, and The Animals.

Eventually, Grant went into independent management, taking The New Vaudeville Band on an American tour of the caberet circuit…they played Las Vegas and Reno among others. He also independently managed Jeff Beck's early tours and Terry Reid.

Finally, Grant put together The Jeff Beck Group and produced their 'Truth' album…there was a studio session for the instrumental 'Beck's Bolero', a song involving Page. In 1966 Simon Napier-Bell asked Grant to take over management of The Yardbirds upon Mickie Most's recommendation and Grant accepted. Jimmy had joined The Yardbirds that June.

[beatbo]

Just plain crazy is good answer. Or he forgot what planet hes on.

crack is not only bad for the budget, it makes them subtle details hard to pin down accurately...

[swandown]

There may be some truth to Wood's story, although he is certainly misremembering the details. It's quite possible that Grant contacted him without Jimmy's knowledge, just as Grant did with drummer Clem Cattini. It's also possible that Jimmy discussed the possibility of having Wood join as a 2nd guitarist (as he supposedly did with Top Topham in early 1969).

Furthermore, it's possible that Wood was contacted by Mickie Most (Grant's business partner) about joining a totally different band altogether....

[beatbo]

There may be some truth to Wood's story, although he is certainly misremembering the details. It's quite possible that Grant contacted him without Jimmy's knowledge, just as Grant did with drummer Clem Cattini. It's also possible that Jimmy discussed the possibility of having Wood join as a 2nd guitarist (as he supposedly did with Top Topham in early 1969).

Furthermore, it's possible that Wood was contacted by Mickie Most (Grant's business partner) about joining a totally different band altogether....

well, what is the real timeline between page putting out feelers for marriot and seeing robert for the first time? was marriot managed by most? with wood freshly esconsed in the jeff beck group, marriot was with humble pie, right?

my brain hurts...

[swandown]

well, what is the real timeline between page putting out feelers for marriot and seeing robert for the first time? was marriot managed by most? with wood freshly esconsed in the jeff beck group, marriot was with humble pie, right?

The Steve Marriott incident was in 1966 (although his name may have come up again in 1968). It was Terry Reid who was approached in mid-July 1968, only to be forced by his manager (Mickie Most) to turn down the offer.

Ron Wood quit the Jeff Beck Group for a time in 1968 (April through June, I believe), so it's certainly possible that he spoke with Jimmy or Peter Grant during that time. And even after he rejoined the Jeff Beck Group, it was a tumultuous arrangement (Wood quit again in June 1969).

[SteveAJones]

Whatever happened I must say I don't think it happened the way Ronnie tells it. No way.

[Gegenschein]

The Steve Marriott incident was in 1966 (although his name may have come up again in 1968). It was Terry Reid who was approached in mid-July 1968, only to be forced by his manager (Mickie Most) to turn down the offer.

Though it's true that the contract with Most prevented him from recording with anyone else, I believe Terry could have at least played live with JP and his new band. However another contract prevented that as well: "Page, an old friend, told Reid that he was looking for a vocalist. "I said, 'Yeah, I'd love to give it a shot. But I've just got to pop off for a minute to do this Stones tour and I don't want to be the one to tell Keith I'm not going: you'll have to call him."" (from Independent, Jul 3, 2007) I'd love to know if the suggested call took place... but that is the question for Trivia or Mysteries, so I'll take it there.

[eternal light]

Has anybody else ever heard this Ron Wood story or is he completely dillusional???

Day after day on the road, our homesickness increased. It was terrible and everyone got depressed. I found myself in charge of keeping up morale, which usually meant more red vermouth. We had no money to run home with, which is exactly how our manager Peter Grant had it worked out. We'd complain, try to get money out of him and he'd bark, 'You ain't going nowhere!'

Although Peter didn't treat the rest of us as well as he treated Jeff and himself, he did in the early days offer me the chance of being in a band other than the Jeff Beck Group. He told me that a bunch of blokes were putting a band together and intended to call themselves the New Yardbirds. Peter said, 'They want you as their guitar player.'

Well, I'd met a few of them up at his office, including the rude drummer John Bonham who reminded me of a farmer, bassist John Paul Jones and the harmless enough Robert Plant, and I told Peter, 'No, I'm happy where I am thanks.'

He insisted, 'This is an offer you really must consider.'

I considered it for two seconds, and then told him again, 'No way.' The New Yardbirds hired Jimmy Page instead and changed their name to Led Zeppelin.

www.ronniewood.com

[Gegenschein]

Wow. I don't see how you can get more delusional than that. His knowledge of LZ formation history is inferior to any part-time LZ fan's to say nothing of hard core ones...

[Aquamarine]

He seems to have got it more or less backwards, starting with "the New Yardbirds hired Jimmy Page."

[eternal light]

Even so, the album came nowhere near realising the pure amazement of their live gigs during 1968.

Towards the end of the year, Nicky Hopkins decided to go out on the road with a band, and chose Beck's in preference to Led Zeppelin who had apparently offered him more money. Then almost a day before another American tour in February 1969, Beck fired Wood and Waller claiming their playing had deteriorated.

www.rodstewartfanclub.com

[ZeppFanForever]

It never happened. For one thing, Peter Grant's bond with Jimmy Page preceeded Led

Zeppelin's formation by two years. Secondly, it was Page who told Grant towards the

end of the Yardbirds he was thinking of what sort of band he wanted to put together.

Thirdly, Grant and Page met Robert Plant for the first time on the same night. If the

story Ronnie has told here were true it would mean this meeting happened afterward.

This takes us back full circle to the loyalty bond established between Grant and Page

two years prior.

Insofar as Page was "hired" I do beg to differ. It was Jimmy Page who retained the management services of Peter Grant following the demise of The Yardbirds. It was

Jimmy Page who was contacted by JPJ concerning his new band. It was Robert and

John Bonham who were initially brought in on salary to complete Jimmy's new lineup.

Ronnie must have had his tongue firmly in cheek when telling this outrageous story.

I've never heard this story either. I know that Ronnie would later join The Faces with Rod Stewart. Where this story came from, we'll never know. ROCK ON!

[eternal light]

"I do remember through my own lawyer just remind Peter that I had in no way given up moral rights to the name itself whether I was a photographer or dentist or whatever. I certainly didn't hand it over to Jimmy Page," Dreja said. "I wasn't going to give up the moral rights to my status and what the band was. And through my lawyer I informed them of that. It was nothing heavy, but it's interesting they became Led Zeppelin fairly quickly."

When Chris Dreja found out that manager Peter Grant was sending the group out to tour England (October 18-19) under the name, the ex-Yardbird informed Page and Grant that he did not want them to use said name. The name change was announced in the October 19, 1968 issue of "Disc" magazine. Dreja's request caused the name change - Page has never owned it.

Around this time, the new group had entered the studio to record their first album (boxes containing the master tapes are marked "Yardbirds"). Soon, they adopted their new name, which would grace their eponymous debut. Amusingly enough, the name Led Zeppelin itself wasn't devised by any member of the band.

In May 1966, Jeff Beck was growing disenchanted with the Yardbirds. He and Jimmy Page entered the studio to record a number of tracks along with John Paul Jones and the Who's great drummer, Keith Moon. Moon's bandmate, John Entwistle, was also involved in some capacity. Apocryphal legend says the recording session went so well that the four musicians discussed forming a band. Moon and Entwistle were dissatisfied with Pete Townshend's increasing dictatorial grip on the Who. They were quite keen on the idea as were Page and Beck. They bantered back and forth over what would be a fitting epithet for the band. Someone said they would "go over like a lead balloon." Entwistle's rejoinder was to the affect that the band should be called "lead zeppelin." Moon brayed with delight. Page filed the name away in that steel trap that serves as a brain. One of the songs recorded at this session, "Beck's Bolero," figures into the scheme of things at a later point.

*****************************************************************

Jeff Beck in the meantime had formed his first solo band. The Jeff Beck Group took the Yardbirds' formula to its logical conclusion, i.e. loud and hard psychedelic blues mutating into what we now call heavy metal. This crackerjack unit was comprised of Beck on lead guitar, Steampacket's Rod Stewart on vocals, Birds' guitarist Ron Wood on bass and Mick Waller on drums. They recorded the very first heavy metal album, "Truth." Released in August 1968, Jimmy Page was to use his ex-bandmate's album as a veritable blueprint for Led Zeppelin's debut.

www.furious.com

Grant's interests were not entirely philanthropic though, as he was keenly interested in managing his own band. Having been to the States as tour manager for The New Vaudeville Band, he was well aware of a new Concert and Album trend developing in the U.S., where a band could be launched through concerts - without a hit single. Beck's outfit was made to order for this new market. And so he tried - repeatedly, desperately, and in vain to buy Beck's contract from Mickey Most. And although Most had lost interest in Beck, he stubbornly refused to sell. Grant however, wasn't beaten, and in early '68, he arranged a six week U.S. tour for the band. It was their last chance... Dunbar had left to play 'straight blues', being replaced briefly by Roy Cook and then eventually by Micky Waller, and according to Beck, they were down to "literally one clothing change!!" ...The gamble payed off - they took the States by storm... The response was phenominal, and Grant used their reviews (most notably The New York Times) to secure a contract with Epic records for a U.S. release. Luckily, upon return to the U.K., Most was still disinterested, and spent very little time supervising the album sessions, basically leaving the project in the hands of the band and a young, budding genius engineer/producer, Ken Scott, who had worked with The Beatles, and was soon to produce all of David Bowie and The Spiders From Mars records... The result was "Truth", to this day considered a 'touchstone' to many musicians, and a seminal influence on all 'Hard Blues','Hard Rock', and 'Heavy Metal' music that was to follow, (via Led Zeppelin), often sighted as usurpers of Beck's act, and largely (behind the scenes) responsible for its breakup. Micky (Mickey) Waller, who was born on September 6, 1941 is a veteran drummer who has played with many of the biggest names on the UK rock and blues scene since he first went professional in 1960. ... Ken Scott (born April 20, 1947 in London) is an influential English record producer and engineer. ... The White Album, see The Beatles (album). ... David Bowie (IPA: []) (born David Robert Jones on 8 January 1947) is an English singer, songwriter, actor, multi-instrumentalist, producer, arranger and audio engineer. ... Led Zeppelin were an English rock band that formed in September 1968. ...

This four piece lineup then toured the U.S. to coincide with the release of 'Truth' in early/mid 1968. The tour was another huge success, and they were being touted as the obvious replacement to Cream. The album climbed to number 15 on the Billboard charts and at Peter Grant's insistence, Jimmy Page was present for most of the second tours shows - apparently studying the band, their audience and material. Many insiders claim that Grant and Page were plotting to form a similar group, which they quickly did; trying to snag the 'gravel-sounding' vocal stylings of Steve Marriott, Terry Reid, and Paul Rodgers among others, before settling on Robert Plant temporarily.

*********************************************************************

Late in the year, well-known session keyboardist Nicky Hopkins accepted an offer to tour with The Beck Group, although offered more money to tour with Led Zeppelin. This lineup (Beck, Stewart, Wood, Waller and Hopkins), is considered by many to be one of the finest in rock history. But they would ultimately suffer from internal stuggles, jealousies and firings (reportedly from 'he said,'she said' rumours, whispered into Beck and Stewart's ears by Grant himself). Ron Wood was fired at least twice, and in 1969 Micky Waller was replaced by drummer Tony Newman, who stayed with the group until they disbanded. It really must be said that this was definitely a 'live' band. Their list of gigs from 1967 to 1969 is staggering... Through most of 1967 they played the club circuit up and down England, as well as short tours to Europe and Scandinavia. 1968 and 1969 saw them playing an almost unbelievable amount of shows, mostly in the U.S., but again in Europe as well. www.nationmaster.com

But Jimmy Page was not in the same location to be able to attend the 2nd Jeff Beck Tour during October-December 1968. So that inaccuracy remains in some accounts, and there is usually an argument that follows.

[swandown]

Dreja's request caused the name change

Not true. George Hardie had already been contacted to provide artwork for the first Led Zeppelin album, proving that the name change was in the works long before Dreja's (alleged) complaint.

Furthermore, if Dreja's complaint (allegedly lodged on 10/14) was so successful, why was the band able to continue using the "Yardbirds" name on 10/15, 10/18, 10/19, 10/25, and 11/9?

[eternal light]

Not true. George Hardie had already been contacted to provide artwork for the first Led Zeppelin album, proving that the name change was in the works long before Dreja's (alleged) complaint.

Furthermore, if Dreja's complaint (allegedly lodged on 10/14) was so successful, why was the band able to continue using the "Yardbirds" name on 10/15, 10/18, 10/19, 10/25, and 11/9?

Dreja apparently argued "moral rights" through his attorney. One way to prevent arguing the matter in court is to simply drop the old name so there could be no cause for action.

Also, Jimmy Page may have had some contractual obligations under the Yardbirds name where it became necessary to fulfill those dates in October-November. Once those obligations were fulfilled it was time to change the name.

Jimmy Page reportedly first got the idea for "Lead Zeppelin" when Keith Moon remarked about a "lead zeppelin" at a recording session for "Beck's Bolero" in May 1966. Chris Dreja's complaint may have acted somewhat as a catalyst in a process that was already in progress.

[swandown]

This four piece lineup then toured the U.S. to coincide with the release of 'Truth' in early/mid 1968. The tour was another huge success, and they were being touted as the obvious replacement to Cream. The album climbed to number 15 on the Billboard charts and at Peter Grant's insistence, Jimmy Page was present for most of the second tours shows - apparently studying the band, their audience and material. Many insiders claim that Grant and Page were plotting to form a similar group, which they quickly did

Just one little problem with this claim: the Jeff Beck Group's 2nd U.S. tour took place from October 11, 1968 through December 12, 1968, AFTER Led Zeppelin had formed.

Now, it's certainly possible that Jimmy attended some of the shows on the JBB's first U.S. tour (which was June 14 to August 4, NOT "early/mid 1968" as the article claims), but he mostly certainly could not have seen "most" of the 40+ shows on that tour.

[swandown]

Dreja apparently argued "moral rights" through his attorney.

If that were true, then why didn't Dreja mention this in ANY interview prior to 1999?

Why wasn't it mentioned in the press?

Why would Dreja be able to argue "moral rights" to something that he lost the rights to in September 1968?

And why would Jimmy hire Dreja to take the back cover photo if Dreja had just threatened a lawsuit?

[SteveAJones]

Now, it's certainly possible that Jimmy attended some of the shows on the JBB's first U.S. tour (which was June 24 to August 4, NOT "early/mid 1968" as the article claims), but he mostly certainly could not have seen "most" of the 40+ shows on that tour.

At most Jimmy may have seen one or both of Jeff's Fillmore East gigs in mid-June '68, having flown up to New York following the end of The Yardbirds final tour to conduct press interviews. Peter Grant almost certainly attended both, seeing as he was also the Jeff Beck Group's manager. I know your aware of this -- I'm posting here for the benefit of others.

[SteveAJones]

If that were true, then why didn't Dreja mention this in ANY interview prior to 1999?

Why wasn't it mentioned in the press?

Why would Dreja be able to argue "moral rights" to something that he lost the rights to in September 1968?

And why would Jimmy hire Dreja to take the back cover photo if Dreja had just threatened a lawsuit?

Personally, I don't believe Jimmy came away with ownership of the name as so far as I know Chris has never had to ask his permission to use it.

I think Peter Grant's comments have been taken out of context over the years and what he meant was Jimmy had rights to use the name for the Scandanavian tour (only). I don't see anything wrong with Dreja's lawyer "reminding them", it's merely a prudent business decision. However, I believe others have taken Dreja's comments out of context to prove a theory that a cease and desist order compelled them to change their name.

Insofar as the band being billed as The New Yardbirds etc. upon their return to England

I put that down to promoters and club owners billing this new act in a manner in which

they felt would draw a crowd as opposed to billing them properly as the then unknown

"Led Zeppelin".

[eternal light]

If that were true, then why didn't Dreja mention this in ANY interview prior to 1999?

Why wasn't it mentioned in the press?

Why would Dreja be able to argue "moral rights" to something that he lost the rights to in September 1968?

And why would Jimmy hire Dreja to take the back cover photo if Dreja had just threatened a lawsuit?

It may have been mentioned in the press during the transitional period when the Yardbirds evolved into Led Zeppelin. This subject has come up before.

"Moral rights" are in the eye of the beholder. If someone believes they have moral rights and they want to argue, then they will.

Dreja would not have to threaten a lawsuit for it to be apparent to someone that one sure way to take the wind out of the argument would be to follow through on the name change.

Jimmy allows Ross Halfin to photograph him, so there's a history of Page being tolerant with photographers, I guess.

Just one little problem with this claim: the Jeff Beck Group's 2nd U.S. tour took place from October 11, 1968 through December 12, 1968, AFTER Led Zeppelin had formed.

Now, it's certainly possible that Jimmy attended some of the shows on the JBB's first U.S. tour (which was June 24 to August 4, NOT "early/mid 1968" as the article claims), but he mostly certainly could not have seen "most" of the 40+ shows on that tour.

It would depend on whether dates, locations and people coincided or not.

During October-December 1968, the Jeff Beck Group reportedly toured Sweden, Denmark, the United States and Canada including Chicago, IL, Alma, MI, Cleveland, OH, Fillmore East, NY, Boston, MA, Philadelphia, PA, Toronto, Canada, Los Angeles, CA, Detroit, MI, Houston, TX, Dallas, TX, Independence Auditorium, Baton Rouge, LA, Miami, FL, Seattle, WA, S.M.U., TX, Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA, then returned to England to London, and after that recorded sessions for the TV program "Smothers Brothers".

www31.ocn.ne.jp/~jeffbeck/bio

During October 1968, the Yardbirds toured England, and were billed as Led Zeppelin from Sunday, 10/20/68 on.

From October 20-December 30, 1968, Led Zeppelin toured England, the United States and Canada, including Denver, Colorado; Seattle, Washington; Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada; Portland, Oregon, and Spokane, Washington.

www.argenteumastrum.com

But Jimmy Page, left with both the rights to the band's name and a touring commitment yet unfulfilled in Scandinavia, was compelled to put a new lineup together. Terry Reid was asked to join the new group, but he turned down the offer because of his new recording contract, instead recommending a then-unknown Midlands singer by the name of Robert Plant. Plant, in turn, recommended his childhood friend John Bonham on drums. Dreja bowed out to pursue a career as a rock photographer; enter bassist/keyboardist/arranger Jones, who had reportedly inquired about forming a band with Page as early as 1967. They made the tour, found themselves clicking, and repaired home to England to produce, in a very short time, a landmark debut album. Interestingly, what was to become Led Zeppelin was still being billed as "Yard Birds" or "The Yardbirds Featuring Jimmy Page" as late as October 1968; indeed, some early studio tapes from the Led Zeppelin album were marked as being performed by "The Yardbirds." One report recently indicated that it was a legal threat from Dreja (who claimed he also shared rights to the Yardbirds name) that hastened the name change, finally closing the books on the Yardbirds for the rest of the century. The term "Led Zeppelin" had originally been popularized by The Who's Keith Moon in 1966 as a tongue-in-cheek name for a proposed "supergroup" that would've comprised himself, John Entwistle, Beck and Page. By spring 1969, it was synonymous with a band that would revolutionize rock over the next decade.

www.experiencefestival.com

[SteveAJones]

It would depend on whether dates, locations and people coincided or not.

They don't as Jimmy already had his own tour to do with The Yardbirds thru June 5th 1968. Like I said, he may have caught one or both of Jeff's Fillmore East gigs before flying back to England a week or so after the tour ended.