SteveAJones Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 If anyone is presenting this as WHAT IS I'm right there with you, but to present this as equal to or better than WHAT WAS? To me, that's revisionist and beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpgfaker Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 geez who says a new drummer will ruin a band...when RUSH took neil peart it wasnt a mistake was it? besides if they dont record a new album with this lineup how can anyone make a comparison, live shows are nothing more than rehashed songs to a bunch of people on drugs or booze (who seen led zeppelin sober back in the day?), but new studio material would be the only way this debate could be resolved then later on down the line we could all go yea that jason bonham really kicks ass eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 geez who says a new drummer will ruin a band...when RUSH took neil peart it wasnt a mistake was it? besides if they dont record a new album with this lineup how can anyone make a comparison, live shows are nothing more than rehashed songs to a bunch of people on drugs or booze (who seen led zeppelin sober back in the day?), but new studio material would be the only way this debate could be resolved then later on down the line we could all go yea that jason bonham really kicks ass eh? Rush has a completely different dynamic. Hell, Neil Peart wrote most of their best songs. The legacy of Led Zeppelin is built on their live performances. Three hours of lunacy, and sometimes four on a good night. Take five shows from 1971 and every one is different because of the improvision. Take five shows from 1998 and the differences are far more subtle. They reached their creative and artistic zenith over 30 years ago. If I've got it right, the argument being made is somehow Jason Bonham has shamanistic powers to turn back the clock and restore them to original glory. He's good, but that good? Honestly? Jimmy Page in 2007 is the same gunslinger he was in 1973? Really? Honestly? JPJ's albums have shown flashes of dormant brilliance? Really?Robert Plant is a better singer in 2007 than at any point in his career? Well, yeah on that point I'd have to say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChild Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Sorry, I guess I've just missed the boat. None of them can deliver the goods the way they did from 1968-1980. IMHO! Maybe not. But - maybe so. It's not unheard of for musicians to improve with age. Heck, it may depend on whether a band and an audience that aren't nearly as high as they used to be can still groove the same way. I just have a really good feeling about this, and think appreciation for the good old days shouldn't necessarily diminish what may be to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Well, each of you has made some great points and given me a lot to think about. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea41 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Jason is not his father, he is not as good, this is obvious (he even said he doesn't have the right foot of the old man). But no one is as good, we're talking about Bonzo, the best drummer in rock history, not some average skin-basher. So that skews the playing field, tough shoes to fill. What we have to rely on now is hope that there is a decent chemistry and vibe, not copying someone's triplets per say. But that's not to say in all their old age, maturity, and experience in music they can't attempt for a different dynamic. Will it be the same? Of course not, but they will try to make up for it by being tight and rehearsed in a Page/Plant '98 kind of way (they were incredible live but in a different way than Zeppelin). That'll be fine for me, I'm realistic, just be as good as Page/Plant in '98 and all will be good, as Michael Lee fit them perfectly live. The addition of JPJ is another great extra factor. It's gonna be interesting that's for sure. And also, for the record, Neil Peart did NOT write Rush's best songs. Lee/Lifeson write ALL of the music and Peart writes ALL of the lyrics. Also Bonzo was 32 when he died, not 38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Jason is not his father, he is not as good, this is obvious (he even said he doesn't have the right foot of the old man). But no one is as good, we're talking about Bonzo, the best drummer in rock history, not some average skin-basher. So that skews the playing field, tough shoes to fill. What we have to rely on now is hope that there is a decent chemistry and vibe, not copying someone's triplets per say. But that's not to say in all their old age, maturity, and experience in music they can't attempt for a different dynamic. Will it be the same? Of course not, but they will try to make up for it by being tight and rehearsed in a Page/Plant '98 kind of way (they were incredible live but in a different way than Zeppelin). That'll be fine for me, I'm realistic, just be as good as Page/Plant in '98 and all will be good, as Michael Lee fit them perfectly live. The addition of JPJ is another great extra factor. It's gonna be interesting that's for sure. And also, for the record, Neil Peart did NOT write Rush's best songs. Lee/Lifeson write ALL of the music and Peart writes ALL of the lyrics. Also Bonzo was 32 when he died, not 38. We're in agreement then. Your putting everything in terms of what is and the promise the future holds as opposed to looking back and suggesting they're equal to or better than the original. My reference to Neil Peart was meant to mean the lyrics; thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea41 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 We're in agreement then. Your putting everything in terms of what is and the promise the future holds as opposed to looking back and suggesting they're equal to or better than the original. My reference to Neil Peart was meant to mean the lyrics; thanks for the clarification. Well said, I love Rush (2nd only to Zeppelin in my book), seen them 19 times, that's another band that defies the odds, 32 years with the same three guys, talk about top-notch pro's! Anyway, regarding Zep and Jason we'll find out in 9 days, it's getting close to show time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 What I find most intriguing is just setting aside how they incorporate him into the line-up psychologically, and asking how do they incorporate him into the line-up in the court of public opinion? Most of the cover stories, for example, exclude him. Now I know that has more to do with editors just going with what they think will sell, but at some point IF this goes beyond a one-off fair consideration should be given to this aspect of the reunion. Full-fledged member, thereby rewriting the course of history, or "key contributor"? It's the Ronnie Wood paradox; how many years, how much contribution until yes, your one of us through and through? Thoughts from the board please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madison Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 yeh dna remains the same..the acorn doesn't fall far from the mighty oak \..i think Jason is goin' to be with LZ for awhile...wow,,,two full time jobs...(w/foreigner) that is if LZ do tour. oh,,,,i love that part and alway back up and watch again on Song Remains the same when Jason is playing on a scaled down drums with dad looking on...and he was twirling his drumsticks and so confident. now 12.10 it was meant to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep.nyc Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 ...... 5) I actually had a tix for Philly '80 that sadly went unused. Zep is the only major band I've never seen. So yes, they're doing it for me (blushing) and the rest of the fans. It would've been cold hearted or sacri-religious to tour quickly after Bonzo's death. 27 years is a long enough for a tribute. Page is 63, they need to get their butt's on the road and give their fans what we want. ---------------------------------------------- Therein lies your motivation: it's what YOU want, reality be damned. ---------------------------------------------- Those are just my views; I do respect yours. Steve - I totally respect your views, and there is no question that there is truth to everything you say. That's the beauty of this forum, we can debate our views and still be pumped for a reunited Zep for 1 night, or many more to come. Btw, you nailed it on point 5, except for the "reality be damned" part, LOL. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpgfaker Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Rush has a completely different dynamic. Hell, Neil Peart wrote most of their best songs. The legacy of Led Zeppelin is built on their live performances. Three hours of lunacy, and sometimes four on a good night. Take five shows from 1971 and every one is different because of the improvision. Take five shows from 1998 and the differences are far more subtle. They reached their creative and artistic zenith over 30 years ago. If I've got it right, the argument being made is somehow Jason Bonham has shamanistic powers to turn back the clock and restore them to original glory. He's good, but that good? Honestly? Jimmy Page in 2007 is the same gunslinger he was in 1973? Really? Honestly? JPJ's albums have shown flashes of dormant brilliance? Really?Robert Plant is a better singer in 2007 than at any point in his career? Well, yeah on that point I'd have to say yes. i agree that the original band was the best improvisation band ever(but damn that band yes could do it great too). jason bonham is a new drummer and being a guitarist myself ive seen plenty of drummers and no two sound alike. so they cant sound like 30 years ago (its just not gonna happen), and john bonham had some say in what they were doing (will they give that kind of freedom to jason if new material is coming in this concert?) if zep sounds even 3/4 as good as say circa 70 (i believe the most creative era) then that's better than 95% of the bands on tour today. a drummer being replaced isnt like replacing a singer (which drastically alters a bands sound, where you hope for a rare ac/dc case and not a bad company case). i think the only differance between the new lineup and the old is age and a couple drum rolls and if we all enjoyed unledded that didnt even feature jpj or j bonham, then this one off concert should at least blow that out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 if we all enjoyed unledded that didnt even feature jpj or j bonham, then this one off concert should at least blow that out of the water. I hope they do band introductions and the roof comes off when Robert says "on bass, mandolin and women with whiskers, John Paul Jones". He's been left out for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpgfaker Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I hope they do band introductions and the roof comes off when Robert says "on bass, mandolin and women with whiskers, John Paul Jones". He's been left out for too long. yeah seems like robert always had great introductions for jpj (at no quarter, or when he brought out that three necked monstrosity) lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChild Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 What I find most intriguing is just setting aside how they incorporate him into the line-up psychologically, and asking how do they incorporate him into the line-up in the court of public opinion? Most of the cover stories, for example, exclude him. Now I know that has more to do with editors just going with what they think will sell, but at some point IF this goes beyond a one-off fair consideration should be given to this aspect of the reunion. Full-fledged member, thereby rewriting the course of history, or "key contributor"? It's the Ronnie Wood paradox; how many years, how much contribution until yes, your one of us through and through? Thoughts from the board please. This is the question, for sure. I have actually been wondering why Jason isn't on the covers, but, if is just a one-off, then he's a guest drummer, and the three of them should be the focus. If it turns into a working band, well, he can't ever have the same cachet of having been there at the beginning, although there isn't any one who could come closer, is there? But he absolutely can be new blood, shape it a different way. Given his dad's impact on the band, he has to be a major contributor, or it won't work, IMHO. So it won't be a Ronnie Wood sort of thing (poor Ronnie Wood, LOL!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChild Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I hope they do band introductions and the roof comes off when Robert says "on bass, mandolin and women with whiskers, John Paul Jones". He's been left out for too long. That's another reason this may work out... Robert doesn't have to do most of the heavy lifting as the front man, let Jimmy and John Paul and Jason do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOJO Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I had some guy in another topic say I would not be seeing Led Zeppelin if they toured. I assume he thinks Janson doesn't count or something. Well I disagree with him. If Led Zep toured with Janson I think it would be Led Zeppelin. I was wondering what you guys and gals thought about that. I believe The Song Remains The Same. In the Led Zeppelin movie, The Song Remains The Same, Jason can be seen playing a scaled-down drum kit for a very proud father, John Bonham, the legendary drummer of Led Zeppelin. Jason was five years old. The Song Remains The Same is what I say, BD P.S. I had a dream. Crazy dream - That Led Zeppelin would tour one more time. i had that dream also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamyKnight Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 That's the same as saying Jason Bonham is equal to or even better than his father on drums! You guys can waterboard me all week long, I'll never agree with this. Talk about revising history. Has everyone gone nuts? Ahhh but dear grasshopper! That is the mystery of the quotient. It is the duty and age old story that the adept surpass the master. For that is when and only when the adept becomes a master. If the world worked in your way of thinking, we would all still be walking on dirt lined roads, as no one would have bothered picking up where their ancestors left off. We wouldn't learn crapolla! Can't replace an origional, we all know that. But ya can take the origional works into the next era and you can improve on it as well-thats pretty much what Zeppelin did. It's the same, but different. That's like saying "You shook me" sucked because it was so different from its origional. "You shook me" was a foot note until Zeppelin did it. Most all of Zeppelins early works were re-workings of earlier versions by other artists. Same premus, never know....Jason just might surpass his pops. That's what every father wants. Kinda reminds me of the very ending of the Godzilla movie..... I personally have no problem with them calling the group Led Zeppelin with Jason on drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamyKnight Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 i had that dream also The only thing that will prevent any of us seeing zep if they tour again...is galactic ticket prices. That is if we can even get em. Stones on their last tour was $400 for decent seats, Striesand and Poveratti $800 retail.... Zep....my stomach gets queezy just thinking about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamyKnight Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Thanks BD. Being simpatico with Page, and vice-versa, is huge. Here's another topic with a video of JPJ talking about Jason having grown up with Zeppelin more than anyone else. Whats a Nettle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamyKnight Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I echo the sentiment of this thread - what could be better than a son stepping into the shoes of his father after he's passed on? This is Plant, Page, Jones & BONHAM. That was Zep in the 70/80's, and it is Zeppelin today. ---------------------------------------------- But that was JOHN Bonham, not JASON. --------------------------------------------- 1) Jason has truly dedicated his life to living in the name of his father. He misses his dad, loves his dad, and was trained to be a drummer by his father. --------------------------------------------- In his own words, he received minimal instruction. --------------------------------------------- 2) Their is a very recent precedent for this type of replacement having an overwhelming acceptance from the hardcore fanbase - THE WHO! Yes there are many Who fans who say Keith Moon can never be replaced and that the original Who is not what the 2002 - 2007 version is. Well I am a huge Who fan, saw them in the 70's and 80's, and have seen them multiple times in 02/07. Zak Starkey cannot replace the spirit of Keith Moon, but from a technical drumming perspective his performance is beyond outstanding. Moonie played "lead" drums, Zak lays down and outrageously tight rhythm section. The mix with the new Who is outstanding and besides Pete and Roger, Zak is the star of the show. But here's the main point - Keith Moon never had a son, Zak was his god son. Zak brings out the spirit of Keith Moon to each Who show he plays. And best of all, Keith did train Zak to play the drums. So who would be better to replace Keith in the Who, no one other than Zak. There is an emotional bond to Who fans every time Zak takes the stage. Seeing Zak play is a reminder of how life passes and the human spirit moves on. It is quite different than Kenny Jones or a session drummer. --------------------------------------------- It's disengenuous for them to tour as The Who. Even the Ox is gone. --------------------------------------------- When Jason Bonham plays his drum solo (or can you imagine Moby Dick) people will be in tears in the audience. -------------------------------------------- As a one-off that's great. But night after night? -------------------------------------------- 3) Jason is 41 and he has played in Foreigner, UFO and his own band(s) for many years. As he has not had the success of his father his ego is in check and this is truly the opportunity of a lifetime for him. Btw, wasn't Bonzo 38 when he died? Jason is actually older than John! Their is no question that technically and emotionally he can fit the bill. --------------------------------------------- Age brings wisdom; it does not bolster drum skills --------------------------------------------- 4) It's what Bonzo would have wanted... --------------------------------------------- Now you presume to speak for him... --------------------------------------------- Yes not a session drummer, his son who he loved more than anything. Maintaining his legacy, providing for his family (and his grandchildren), and finding his own success. I have 3 sons, and god forbid something happened to me I couldn't think of anything more appropriate than of my sons following in my footsteps and helping keep my memory alive. People, the media, and the world will be in tears with the emotion of Zep truly re-uniting after 27 years. ---------------------------------------------- You cannot "truly reunite" when one fourth is gone! ---------------------------------------------- 5) I actually had a tix for Philly '80 that sadly went unused. Zep is the only major band I've never seen. So yes, they're doing it for me (blushing) and the rest of the fans. It would've been cold hearted or sacri-religious to tour quickly after Bonzo's death. 27 years is a long enough for a tribute. Page is 63, they need to get their butt's on the road and give their fans what we want. ---------------------------------------------- Therein lies your motivation: it's what YOU want, reality be damned. ---------------------------------------------- Those are just my views; I do respect yours. Don't worry brother, John Bonham will never be forgotten!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamyKnight Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 What I find most intriguing is just setting aside how they incorporate him into the line-up psychologically, and asking how do they incorporate him into the line-up in the court of public opinion? Most of the cover stories, for example, exclude him. Now I know that has more to do with editors just going with what they think will sell, but at some point IF this goes beyond a one-off fair consideration should be given to this aspect of the reunion. Full-fledged member, thereby rewriting the course of history, or "key contributor"? It's the Ronnie Wood paradox; how many years, how much contribution until yes, your one of us through and through? Thoughts from the board please. My pops has a saying.....throw it on the table and let the cats lick it up. They should just play the music as they will and screw anyone else that thinks they have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJD Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 My pops has a saying.....throw it on the table and let the cats lick it up. They should just play the music as they will and screw anyone else that thinks they have an opinion. Well said. Plus nobody could be worse than Michael Lee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinaryDeath Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 I had some guy in another topic say I would not be seeing Led Zeppelin if they toured. I assume he thinks Janson doesn't count or something. Well I disagree with him. If Led Zep toured with Janson I think it would be Led Zeppelin. I was wondering what you guys and gals thought about that. I believe The Song Remains The Same. In the Led Zeppelin movie, The Song Remains The Same, Jason can be seen playing a scaled-down drum kit for a very proud father, John Bonham, the legendary drummer of Led Zeppelin. Jason was five years old. The Song Remains The Same is what I say, BD P.S. I had a dream. Crazy dream - That Led Zeppelin would tour one more time. After seeing the videos of o2 I have to say Jason is as good if not better than Dad. The DNA does remain the same! BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinaryDeath Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 I had some guy in another topic say I would not be seeing Led Zeppelin if they toured. I assume he thinks Janson doesn't count or something. Well I disagree with him. If Led Zep toured with Janson I think it would be Led Zeppelin. I was wondering what you guys and gals thought about that. I believe The Song Remains The Same. In the Led Zeppelin movie, The Song Remains The Same, Jason can be seen playing a scaled-down drum kit for a very proud father, John Bonham, the legendary drummer of Led Zeppelin. Jason was five years old. The Song Remains The Same is what I say, BD P.S. I had a dream. Crazy dream - That Led Zeppelin would tour one more time. After seeing the videos of o2 I have to say Jason is as good if not better than Dad. The DNA does remain the same! BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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