manderlyh Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Speaking of...we had a class discussion today about this. Very interesting to hear 8th graders talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I think that it wouldn't go against the Hippocratic oath if the person was going to die no matter what. (think: dying cancer patients who are obviously losing their battle) BUT, even though euthanasia would reduce the pain and suffering of a person who is already dying, I cannot say I'm for human euthanasia. I must say that hospice is the best way to go. Even though I KNOW that many people just want to die once they're at this point, it's the safest option for all of the health care professionals involved--liability speaking. The nurses and doctors give the patients as much pain medicine as the patient needs to be comfortable, and they are able to spend time at home before it happens. My boyfriend's step dad passed away at the end of June this year. He was in hospice care and he died at home. One issue I have is that he was so drugged up that many side effects of the pain medicines made it seem that he was not himself. In this manner, the drugs affecting who you are really affects your quality of life--especially when it comes to hallucinations and other opiate-linked side effects. My family just put our 17-year old dog down. Not that putting an animal down is comparable to putting a human down at all, but I had a tough enough time putting him down, knowing that it was truly for the best. I can't imagine making that decision because a sick family member isn't going to live much longer. Sorry to disagree but, Hippocratic oath "I swear by Apollo, Asclepius,Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath. To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art. I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone. To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death. But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts. I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art. In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves. All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal. If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot." Although i totally agree with your sentiments 'manderlyh' a Doctor should not go against his/her teachings, but i know that they do when they leave aborted feotuses to die, its the world we live in today. How can a Christian, Jew or Muslim or any religion that has a God that tells its congregetion Murder or Suicide is a Mortal Sin punishable by living all eternity in Hell, take or assist in taking a life? If its Gods will that you suffer, then you suffer, if you cant live with that then you ought to leave that religion that you say you belong too and go your own way. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Sorry to disagree but, Hippocratic oath "I swear by Apollo, Asclepius,Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath. To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art. I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone. To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death. But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts. I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art. In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves. All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal. If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot." Although i totally agree with your sentiments 'manderlyh' a Doctor should not go against his/her teachings, but i know that they do when they leave aborted feotuses to die, its the world we live in today. How can a Christian, Jew or Muslim or any religion that has a God that tells its congregetion Murder or Suicide is a Mortal Sin punishable by living all eternity in Hell, take or assist in taking a life? If its Gods will that you suffer, then you suffer, if you cant live with that then you ought to leave that religion that you say you belong too and go your own way. Regards, Danny Danny. Have you had the experience yet ? I think maybe not. Sincerely hope that you don't. It's a life altering moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Danny. Have you had the experience yet ? I think maybe not. Sincerely hope that you don't. It's a life altering moment Hi Ally, Please explain, if you want to post direct to me feel free, what experiance are we talking here. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorer714 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 My mother once told us that if she was ever in a vegatative state that we'd better call Jack Kevorkian or she'd haunt us the rest of our lives She had a massive stroke in the hospital and ended up in a vegatative state and we chose the Hospice thing.She only lasted a couple of days and it was probably more painful for us to watch than it was for her.I know she knew that we did the best that we could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Derigable Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Change the oath or create a whole new category of euthanasia doctors who swear another oath (as PB said)? I have no idea what they would do...or what they could do We should have death doctors. (no kidding) they will be the ones allowed to perform abortions and assisted suicide. You will have to go in front of a board of three doctors (MD) and they will have to come to the conclusion that you are in gods hands now. (less than 10% chance of living) which is what Insurance companies use to cut off funds to people. now you get into the thick of things, how do you decide if a person is still capable to make this decision about themselves, when the face a life threatening state. Most likely most of these people will have limited brain function or on drugs. Can people who stand to get money from somebody demise make that decision for them. and who? Family only or attorneys included. Do people who decide to end it, lose out on insurance money too. Many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 For abortions, maybe. But I don't ever believe in "assissted suicide". Unless the person is a vegetable, letting them die is never an option, IMO anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I've lost a friend to suicide. Not assisted suicide, but regular old blow your brains out suicide. I was there after it happened, I had to see the end result......I still carry those scars many years later. It'll never go away. That being said, if my parents or my grandmother were in constant pain at the ends of their lives due to illness and there was no way that pain would ever be lessened, not even temporarily, I could not live with myself if I let them keep living just for me to say they're still alive. Seeing them like that every day would kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I've lost a friend to suicide. Not assisted suicide, but regular old blow your brains out suicide. I was there after it happened, I had to see the end result......I still carry those scars many years later. It'll never go away. That being said, if my parents or my grandmother were in constant pain at the ends of their lives due to illness and there was no way that pain would ever be lessened, not even temporarily, I could not live with myself if I let them keep living just for me to say they're still alive. Seeing them like that every day would kill me. Amen to that 'Electrophile' But it would not be you who did the deed, it would be a doctor. Could you actualy kill someone in cold blood? even if it would put them out of their misery? i dont know if i could. And i'm so sorry to hear about your friend and what you must have gone through afterwards, even to this day i know you still feel the pain, i can feel it in your writing sometimes. I know we are mostly good people on here so if you need to talk off line there will be someone who understands what you have gone through. Most people find death too much to cope with, i have found a way that works for me to cope with it, if you want to know how then post direct to me. Kind regards,Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Could you actualy kill someone in cold blood? Absolutely. Depending on who...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Absolutely. Depending on who...... Wasnt asking you though. And i meant someone that you either loved or they meant something too you not some slimebag who had just tried to rob or kill you, in cold blood not when you are seeing red, this makes a real big difference in my book. To take a loved ones life to save them from further pain in probably the ultimate that you can do in loving that person, IMHO. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Wasnt asking you though. My sincerest apologies...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 My sincerest apologies...... Dont mention it my fine chap, my fault for no posting this just joshing with you, no insult intended. Anyway this is an open battleground, i mean forum, and we are all entitled to our views, i think. Anyway nice to meat you '59LesPaul' Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Dont mention it my fine chap, my fault for no posting this just joshing with you, no insult intended. Anyway this is an open battleground, i mean forum, and we are all entitled to our views, i think. Anyway nice to meat you '59LesPaul' Regards, Danny None taken,that was my way of bowing out diplomatically... Pleased to meet you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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