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Everything posted by Mithril46

  1. Mithril46

    The Trouble with Bonham. 1978-80

    The key here is more Robert as far as any substantial time off, than anything else. Besides Jimmy's comments, I really think noone said much about the future, because Robert as well didn't want to do the 80' US Tour pt.1. And Robert had had it with Zep's somewhat gangsterish atmosphere and Jimmy's almost shocking decline in physical health and playing skill due at least in part to the addiction(s)' taking over. About 6,7 years into Robert's solo career, in various interviews he would mention in a veiled manner how late Zep was heavily compromised by the addictions and lack of practice which to him hurt the live shows.
  2. Mithril46


    That's very interesting, I also think a key reboot may sound close to the "Outrider" period.I must confess I find the O2 show overall to be very good, but I can never listen to more than 45 mintutes at a time, the key change thing is so disconcerting at times, they aren't just dropping a half step like Ozzie or Rod Stewart, or the many older rockers etc. who still want to get out there. Actually, I'm a guitarist, and figuring out some of Jimmy's amazing licks from the WIC tour, even there some songs are a bit detuned, but nothing like 02 and even then those shows are from broadcasts where subtle detuning may create a much fatter bottom end. I think Robert is still great, he could still find a "way", but despite his own sometimes silly reasonings, and him still playing some Zep in his solo shows, I really think he would feel very demeaned doing the thrash-metal rumble tunings AND auto tune trying to get thru Zep sets. Jimmy's old, but don't forget that one finger wasn't still well by showtime, and by his Tower House affairs and other indications, like his rather animated manner at almost 75. So seemingly retired, unfortunately for now. Wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy just thinks he doesn't look anything like a rock star anymore, and that's that. I hope I get 5,000 replies to refute this idea.
  3. Yeah, every show had some points where there was some sort of massive geometric explosion of energy, if even for a few seconds, not infrequently brought on by one member's slight or radical departure from a "set" part. As mentioned even the final 07' show, and those public announcements, "The American Return of Led Zeppelin"(75'), Ha Ha, made it seem that the band's imminent return to live work was crucial to retaining the cosmic order. Which it was.....how so much energy could be created by 4 mega talented musicians is still something magical.
  4. Well, I see all the examples pretty well. For me , though, the 5/22 version of ALS, has quite a few totally sublime or blistering moments. Now, I am talking about close to the original recordings, not the cleaned up versions which although they aren't close to clipping and have better "EQ", just don't convey the original onslaught. This version has first of all probably the closest to thrash metal drumming Bonzo has ever done, and Page as well detours into many whiplash rhythm slams, and Jimmy's solo is just total frenzy and a totally schizophrenic mix of precise speed and sticky fingers. Again, you won't hear this from recent(even from a while ago)cleaned up versions. No other version of ALS is anything like this, there are many totally way over the top "Ancient battlefield" moments, although some may regard the version as too far from "proper".
  5. This is interesting, but Townsend and Harrison are so far apart stylistically. To me, Harrison was not really known for stadium shakxing power chords or reckless rock energy, whereas Townsend was a master at blowing the roof off whatever venue he was playing at. Harrison was far more adept at playing subtle solos with an interesting melange of influences, and adding interesting detail work to whatever band/guitarist he would be playing with. But a cranking rock guitarist, no. Townsend was a king of rock solid rhythm guitar, and a very good fingerpicker. Harrison was a damn good fingerpicker as well. I guess Townsend would have a slight edge, as I would argue that Townsend has likely had much more inflluence on guitarists. But I must mention that getting Harrison's skill set would be difficult, so many techniques and influences crashing together. Quite difficult comparison, almost two different worlds.
  6. What I find unfortunate is that it seems very apparent that Plant and Jones likely beyond those first box sets and remasters (early 90's) have given Jimmy a free hand in almost all future releases. I can't Imagine JPJ, steady and mellow as he is,accepting those almost criminal cuts in NQ . And Plant may have heard some of those lopsided changes to his voice in the movie/soundtrack, but I'm not sure Robert feels it's worthwhile to go wrestle with Jimmy . Zep has become a gigantic pyramid in music, but especially since that 2007 TSRTS release, Jimmy has cheapened the Zep Gold Standard, where every release really meant something and was very worthwhile.
  7. Mithril46

    Best live version of The Rain Song

    The challenge here is with minor exceptions Jimmy and Bonzo are pretty much staying with a script, the usual improvisation would not advance the song, Of course this is the mark of master musicians. On the other hand, Plant has more leeway, but even his "ad-limbs" fit and add more depth to the song. And JPJ, with the keys, mellotron, and later synths, probably had the most freedom with changing the arrangement....although just a bit. My fave is the TSRTS 7/28 one, although I've never heard a bad version. Interesting that even the 80' Europe tour had damn good renditions of this song.
  8. Mithril46

    Tower House

    Well, there persists the notion that Jimmy was some kind of forceful mastermind in Zeppelin. Early on in the launch, yes, but also Peter Grant right behind him. There are very few Zep stories with Jimmy or any other member stalking away in anger because their "vision" was being corrupted or diluted etc.. Probably 75% + of all successful groups in the 70's and 80's were quite volatile behind the scenes. In Zep, all the musicians were so talented that they played for the song, not obvious ego gratification. Well, after Bonzo's death, Jimmy knew what had been lost, and Jimmy just isn't a natural leader, so you had the Firm, with Paul Rodgers actually playing guitar( not too bad, but kind of generic) on various tracks. Robert is Jimmy's security blanket, and some fans don't realize that Jimmy can tie himself into knots with anxiety about many things. If Robert caved, I'm not sure Jimmy couldn't handle a big tour, he's old, but adrenaline has always carried him thru. And Jimmy wants only the 20,000 seat arenas, too bad.
  9. Mithril46

    The Trouble with Bonham. 1978-80

    Well I think the touring, back then it wasn't so easy to find good vegetarian food except in the largest cities, and not sure Jimmy would ante up all the delivery costs and hassles involved. I do remember reading that Jimmy was stuck many times with room service, and usually that was hamburgers and fries. Jimmy was vain, but I can't really see him watching his weight, unless you mean avoiding underweight, which of course would affect his playing. Even the Heroin, don't know if the weight loss was 100% drug related. Perhaps a stupid explanation, but when Zep started in with all the accidents and "bad luck", there are a few mentions that Jimmy was pretty unnerved and psychologically affected pretty negatively by all the bad events and vibes surr ounding the band starting somewhere about 75'. .???
  10. Mithril46

    The Trouble with Bonham. 1978-80

    Well Steve A. would know best but Jimmy was shipped off to a "health farm" once or twice in the mid to late seventies with some member of management( I think Phil Carson). However it was to fatten Jimmy up, some fans still don't know that Jimmy had a very sensitive stomach even before Zep. Overall heavy touring seemed to really aggravate his stomach trouble. Also there is speculation that Jimmy totally changed his blood before going to play in the U.S. ARMS shows, not sure if his previous U.K drug convictions mandated this. Or if that made withdrawal symptoms easier from heroin. Formal rehab, don't think so.
  11. I wouldn't get too excited about any of this. Remember that Jimmy has not really held up the "Zep Gold Standard" the last few releases, and I'm not sure Robert even cares much about what is and what should never be released. I can't even picture Robert calling Jimmy to argue about his future Zep release plans. Hope I'm wrong, but Robert has not shown much interest in this realm.
  12. Mithril46

    Wow! It finally happened!!!

    Yeah. I never listen to "Classic Rock Radio". The last time during regular programming you would hear "In The Light" or "Tea For One" was in the very early eighties at best. Although when the first box-sets and remasters came out, the situation did improve somewhat for a year or two. Actually "Fool In The Rain" is actually I'm told played a lot. My two cents is that I started to listen to FM rock stations about 1977, about 40 miles from NYC. So there were the local independent stations and a few city ones, and 4 or 5 of those often played for 30 or 45 minutes no commercial breaks, and played EVERY Zep song from all the studio albums released up to that point. Then the corporations..........
  13. Mithril46

    MOVIE QUESTIONS: The Song Remains The Same

    What about Jimmy apparently getting totally pissed off because some of the Shepperton shots showed he had gotten a little potbelly ? Or is this a cooked up scenario, although Richard Cole ( to believe or not to believe!?!??) had often said Page was quite vain.
  14. Mithril46

    Consoling Plant.

    Well not to shoot off, but Jimmy had for awhile before the 77' disasters started to be looked upon by Robert as a man headed for the abyss. So from my view( Not Robert's), I would hardly want a ghost of a person(Jimmy) attending something as serious and somber as a funeral. In theory it sounds good if Jimmy had attended, but junkies have only one master.
  15. Mithril46

    The Trouble with Bonham. 1978-80

    Well to me Bonzo was still capable of greatness in 77', overall played well at Knebworth, but a good portion of the 80' tour Bonzo just was not himself. IMO, he had an almost steeper decline than Jimmy. I have all the 80' shows and a good portion of the time Bonham is just keeping time, all of the skill set Bonzo usually had wasn't on display much. Obviously alcohol and being quite overweight hurt his stamina, apparently.
  16. Well some of Yes/Genesis stuff Jimmy could only play if he was constantly playing or practicing, which he clearly wasn't from about 75' on, if not earlier. The whole timing thing with Black Dog, actually in the main riff there is a dotted eighth note among the other eighth notes. If you miss that, yes, everything collapses.In the studio track Page mainly sticks locked in in the end solo, live Jimmy would often fight the beat and only occasionally play "along" with JPJ and Bonzo. Live, yes Bonzo would very noticeably be behind the beat, and vary on that as well. Which would be a major headache if you tried a live version with your band.
  17. First "absolute genius" was ALS. I had heard about 6 or 7 Zep tracks and I thought Page was great, but ALS had that amazing guitar architecture and the guitar solo which had these radical EQ shifts which are impossible live. Also the opening section and the end, sound like some ancient civilization which was very advanced but has been lost or forgotten. Whatever, the song is just truly exotic for me, Page in particular.
  18. Mithril46

    Cause of plant/JPJ friction

    Not to generalize, but Brits seem to be "allowed" to make certain comments or jokes about someone else that would look rude or hammer blunt to us here in the states. I've watched some pretty funny Brit series or soap operas, and right alongside the formal manners are rather naked and very pointed barbs which are not taken in great offense. I think it's "Taking the Piss Out of Someone", a English quirk for sure. Don't know what to make of Plant and Jones, somewhat convoluted.
  19. Well, let's see what would happen if Robert failed to sell 1000+ tickets in a bunch of those 2000 or whatever capacity theaters he tends to play at. Some thoughts about Zep's legacy: it took a good 10-15 yrs or more after Zep's end, but particularly from 77 on live, quite a few even moderate Zep fans noticed the band deteriorating , yet has that really struck the band down ?? I've put on some actually decent 77' boots at parties, and 75% of the time by NFBM, heavy complaints start coming in. Not advocating a reunion, but what the band did studio and live up to about 77' or so, was so unique and magical I'm not sure if anything could wipe that out. Think about Floyd, after the WALL , so much astounding music had been created that their greatness was carved in stone, later feeble releases almost didn't matter. But the ABBA situation has little in common with new Zep songs. But also trying to get the remaining Zep's together, could be as tricky as trying to reboot an old love interest, emotion rules.
  20. Mithril46

    Gibson files for bankruptcy protection

    PRS is getting weaker on the QC, but not yet in the Gibson range. I bought a Santana SE( first non U.S. guitar, made in Korea) in 2001, $549 with exc soft case, great guitar, a serious instrument. You can spend the same now, but not with the "free" substantial soft case, and the fretwork, fit, and finish, can vary a bit within the same non U.S.model. But still almost always on par with Fender at that price point and almost always superior to Epiphone. U.S.PRS prices have increased, but my U.S. 2014 custom 22 semi-hollow body( 2-day promotional demo model, A+, $1,050 ebay) is far superior to any Gibson at that price, although fully new at the time, $1,400, still a Gibson killer. Although now new the guitar is $1,800, the value factor is narrowing, some arrogance seems to be evident. Many feel that PRS has been superior to Gibson to a degree for a long time as far as guitar ergonomics, tuning stability, tonal versatility and overall quality, but only recently has it seemed that the cheaper U.S. models have started to approach the "personality" of great Gibson pickups. I remember trying out in 2000 or 2001 some U.S. PRS models, only the $2200 McCarty had the "rainbow" magic of great Gibson pickups.Ah, whatever, it's all debatable.
  21. Mithril46

    Gibson files for bankruptcy protection

    Perhaps another issue is that Gibson Jr.( Epiphone) really makes awful guitars in general, although for some reason the acoustics, semi-hollows and jazz boxes above $500-$600 tend to be fair to pretty good. Below that, you have dried out necks, dead frets, fret buzzing unless the action is set unacceptably high, although some of the pickups are actually good. But Fender and PRS can build almost professional instruments for less than $500, just trying a few to get a winner. I have sometimes tried 3 or 4 $1500+ Gibsons in a row, and even allowing for drifting setups and such, most of the guitars were maybe 20% better at most than $500 various offshore brand versions. What's happening now is online and retail quite a few Gibsons' are being discounted unlike anytime before, so I would wait a little more, regardless of a takeover or restructure, you could get a great deal, not just good. I have a 71' Les Paul that sounds great and almost magically needs almost no attention to work fine, and the same for my 02' ES-446. These guitars don't need constant adjustments, daily nut lubes, or retuning every song, etc.. There is a reason Gibson is a legend: hope they find they're way back !!
  22. Mithril46

    Filmed concerts

    Yes it was filmed, and evidence points to a much better audio source than previous. But a lot of this is still unclear....never heard a band member make a definitive statement, although maybe Peter Grant ??? may have in some interview. This whole topic drives many Zep fans crazy. There is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that on the 77' tour many venues had full-show footage from the large video screens, but also evidence Peter Grant wiped all footage, or somehow blah blah disabled any recording ?!?!?!?. Whatever the case, there are always new snatches of shows appearing, but it does appear unlikely more than even a HANDFUL of full filmed shows even exist. Film, particularly, Video , may have been on closed-circuit cable, never recorded in the first place. Steve A. Would know best.
  23. No, No, just the main example is in the Ocean. You can clearly hear the two guitars particularly in the end "coda" section, and the solo is not the same as any of those two dates in the boots. There are other examples, and fixing mistakes here and there, okay, but I grow cold with two guitars. Actually Jimmy did that in live WIAWSNB, (BBC), but only over the solo, and the overdub is a bit sloppy, so what. If you aren't a musician, you may have to listen a bit more closely, but it's really not hard to hear. Another gross violation is the HTWWW video version of ALS at Knebworth, where Page has added in a second guitar harmonizing with the first, not heard on any boot I have, although that same harmonizer may have been used during the 77' noise solo and NFBM. No big deal for any other band, but the band has always prided itself on not using "outside help". But sure, cutting and pasting parts, replacing a few notes. Two guitars live I draw the line, a student asked me to figure that live "Ocean" part live, I then realized there were two guitars playing different parts.
  24. What Steve said is quite true. Also, I think Jimmy wants every release to be a grand event, not a low key steady trickle like other groups. And by now even the general public may have heard portions of good quality boots that are 5 times as amazing as most of TSRTS, etc., so if Jimmy decided to set up a Stones or King Crimson easy access (whatever)sbd or boot enterprise, the weak , poor quality, or mediocre performances would hardly make a dent in Zep's musical significance. You don't need Aleister Crowley or a deck of tarot cards to experience magic. A legendary Zep show is real magic. In fact I make it a point to only listen to Zep live at least 3 hrs before bed, they are a perpetual energy machine
  25. Well I'm the first responder, ha, ha. Reason # 1 Jimmy Page. It's very clear from the serious whitewashing of TSRTS and HTWWW that Jimmy can't accept letting his mistakes rest, he has to put his sticky fingers in, although the latest BBC stuff was so well played that serious corrections weren't necessary and the stuff was pro recorded anyway. But I find Jimmy's attitude silly, as even if one solo live didn't quite work, often the next song would have an excellent solo. Now there is some possible gray area with Zep playing covers live and some copyright issues. One of the best examples is the WLL oldies medley, but I have no idea if there was trouble with that on TSRTS. Reason# 2 The remaining Zep's, I've never heard any enthusiasm EVER for cleaning up boots or having large numbers of live stuff put out. Jimmy as I understand it can basically call the shots himself, but again Robert and John Paul simply don't care. A possible third reason is that it's not entirely clear that this gambit would make much money, although obviously it would be great for huge Zep fans.