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Everything posted by Mithril46

  1. Sorry, forgot to mention all the trickery in the "Ocean". The solo is different than any of the boots(even the tone doesn't sound anything like 72'). And at the end "Coda" there are very clearly 2 or more guitars. Now actually they don't sound bad, but isn't the Zep supposed to be live without a net ?? Forget the excuses that every band dramatically alters their live releases. Part of Zep legend is the huge sound created by four pieces.
  2. Sounds good, but 6/25 and 6/27 have many more weak spots than the rest of that run, despite being very good shows regardless. Page would have his sticky fingers in there, as always. I find this so irritating, hasn't anybody ever mentioned to Jimmy that real fans know there will be some dips, but also usually many spectacular spikes and unpredictable detours from the album versions. I mean on HTWWW Jimmy actually has a second guitar on parts AND a heavily altered solo from the boot. Whatever, something would be better than nothing. Funny how the Forum dates are the same in 72' and 77'.
  3. Find it puzzling about the slide solo. So Page should have played it on the 6 string ? The version posted Page has excellent intonation(on slide, bad intonation would produce nasty, sour notes). Anyway, I think there is something to Relf's widow's claim, thought I read that somewhere. But Jimmy himself said HE wrote the song after a breakup, etc. Maybe Steve A. would know what the deal is.
  4. Well correct me if wrong, but the missing RAH stuff audio and video is supposedly too chopped up and not really syncable into a coherent whole. This thing about the rights with the medley's, not a lawyer but as mentioned scores of groups have done these and possibly as the songs are in a medley and not standing alone complete versions, legal action may be problematical. ??? As far as releasing boots in their virgin state, I like others are pretty irritated. Everyone knows Zep made mistakes live(Jimmy more so), but one of the best qualities of Zep was maybe one song would be a bit weak, but the next song could very well be one of the best live versions ever.
  5. My Latest Keyboard

    Ha Ha. Just wondering what the tuning situation is, if some keys are dead, or did you luck out with a piece pretty much ready to go ??
  6. Tom Petty Died of drug overdose

    Some musicians don't feel alive unless they hit the road often enough. Just like many musicians need to touch and play their instrument often. This isn't an excuse to recklessly party, but in the Vietnam war, for example, many soldiers took morphine for injuries or just to cope, yet in fact when most of the non-injured soldiers came home, most may have had mild withdrawal or little difficulty stopping use. Many don't realize for some ailments there is no satisfactory substitute for opiates, addicts with intractable pain conditions go into and out of rehab, and no pain relief means a miserable existence. What a shame about Petty, I thought he had periods of some drinking a while back and some pot here and there. I don't condone opiates, but some people think you can change your diet, get acupuncture, meditate, change your thinking, etc., and eliminate 3/4 of the pain. Sometimes, but this is an overly simplistic view of things. Just like Jimmy Page, although there certainly is a partying aspect there, But Jimmy was never really consistently healthy looking, and even before the 77' and forward skeleton, Jimmy on the same tour would often get a slight belly yet 2 weeks later have it vanish. Jimmy couldn't eat solid food often, and perhaps used coke partially because he may well have needed it to get thru live shows. Speculation, who knows for sure.
  7. ITTOD

    Well it's great that some Zep fans can look upon ITTOD as not that far off in quality and execution as the rest of their studio albums. I consider it interesting but lacking in the passion of earlier albums. I just have to mention the Knebworth dates, as they are inseparable from the soon to be released ITTOD. Being a guitarist, the opening TSRTS on both dates is awful. Page actually sounds more sour than most of the 77' debacles. I have heard different versions of the shows, but have not found a great performance version. What's recommended ? I totally salute the second Copenhagen show, to me it's far superior to either Knebworth dates. Also at Knebworth on the HTWWW DVD, all the songs including the ITTOD songs the audio is heavily processed.
  8. Yes, both versions. But it seems to me that Jimmy started going off the cliff with the Mothership/"Complete" Song Remains The Same. You can complain about even the whitewash of the LA HTWWW, but after that butchered NQ, most Zep releases after did not show IMO Jimmy using his best judgement, and that's all the way up to the companions nonsense. I don't know about EC.... overall great shows, but there are plenty of rough spots and mistakes Jimmy could stick his hands into. A lot of this is so stupid, a great majority of Zep fans accept Jimmy's mistakes, and still regard him as one of the best live guitarists ever. A so-so solo in one song can be followed by a absolute barn burner in the next, and true artists can't fake much.
  9. ITTOD

    Concerning ITTOD I am schizophrenic, day to day. On one hand Jimmy plays some different stuff, as always, not repeating himself. But much of the album has a Steely Dan spic an span production. There is much variety about, but it's not of the far more intense variety of HOTH. I think Carouselambra is interesting in parts but hardly comparable to exotic epics like Kashmir or Achilles. Although many label ITTOD as Zep's weakest, it is very misleading because even the "filler" ( HD, SBS, AML ?!?!?) is hardly brutal on the ears. Initxially I was not totally satisfied with the album, but after awhile I realized the album was quite interesting and Zep is always attempting new things.

    It would be interesting to have all the studio output in 5:1. However , Floyd, Crimson and bands like that, particularly Floyd, they were messing with unique and innovative sound scapes technically even live. I think with Zep, 1), as mentioned many of the masters etc. are in bad shape anyway, and 2), this project would be very arduous for Jimmy, and in fact the albums could not artistically be compared to the originals, as now there would be overdubs and who knows what bouncing all over the place. Maybe I am going overboard, but we aren't talking AC/DC here, where everything would sound the same but simply much more dimensional.
  11. Damn. In NYC, I remember about 2-3 years ago some theater had a midnight showing. I don't speak for anyone else, but on the large screen, believe me , there are details and aspects of the movie you can't see even on a 60" home tv. In various spots Jimmy is playing so fast his hands are actually a blur. Long live Midnight Movies !! Viewers cheering as the symbols appear with each member's name. Those were the days!!.
  12. Cinematic Blunders: The Song Remains The Same

    Also wasn't the movie meant to be played in theaters with quadraphonic sound, which was only in place in a few big city theaters ? Also I thought(read) that the movie didn't stay around for long, and the soundtrack was their lowest selling album up to that point ? I am puzzled about the film/soundtrack being so profitable, perhaps some of my Zep books are in error. Explanation ?
  13. Cinematic Blunders: The Song Remains The Same

    Part of the problem with Grant and even Jimmy may have been that they could have wanted too much control over the filming even though that is not their skill. Most really good directors/film makers may have their own ideas or suggestions. Not sure Grant or Jimmy would go for that.
  14. Cinematic Blunders: The Song Remains The Same

    Well, no matter how slipshod the movie is at times, it still touches on the wonder and power of Zep at points. And in the 70's, unless you were there, Rock'n'Roll was almost a religion. Sometime in the mid-to late 80's the whole idea of concert films interspersed with whatever else coming out in regular theaters just died. By 1990, even the midnight movie phenomena had pretty much disappeared. TSRTS loses much on the small screen, although the band fantasies aren't really made better by the big screen. I also wonder how much drugs may have deluded the band into a state of invincibility, as Page and Grant had started upon the opium highway somewhere around 75'.
  15. Cinematic Blunders: The Song Remains The Same

    Jones did have some hair and wardrobe issues, but I myself watching a fully filmed Zep show, If the music was top notch, I think this would fade fast. Remember how in 70' RAH Zep was really ho-hum about the dress aspect, but the performance blew away any care about fashion. It is indeed a minor tragedy that more Zep wasn't filmed and especially full length shows in 35mm. However, there is something not mentioned....Even at their best, most great shows, there were always some dead spots or uninspired passages. Especially from 75' on. The real nonstop onslaughts for me would be like Dallas 69', Fillmore West 4/27, etc. But then some would argue as amazing as those shows were, especially filmed, Zep was still developing as a band, subtlety would take some time. Now Seattle 77' is not the best example as Jimmy is sick, and at best the show is just a bit above average for 77'. Even so, there are noticeable dips but also some spikes, even within the same song. This would happen, although to a lesser extent, even in the better/excellent shows. Actually the EC shows are a great example, the isustained roar of the past is slowly breaking up. Just saying that of course 3 73' Garden shows would probably work great, but again Zep never really stayed at the same energy or intensity.

    Only distinction is all three collaborating, but that in itself is good. On all the remastered re masters, companions, etc., I would not be surprised if Robert and JPJ gave Jimmy full authority on content without actually physically speaking to him. That sounds extreme, but I'd bet that's how it went. And this time Jimmy will outdo himself and charge $100 for a lottery to win a signed(actually stamped) book of 666 copies, with no winners obviously duped.
  17. Presence

    It's very interesting that a mention was made about Presence's great anxiety. The whole group became tax exiles, and Robert and Jimmy have both mentioned that the situation the band was in felt unhinged and rootless. Jimmy being likely the most nervous of the group, much of the music is frenetic, tense and pounding. Many of the tracks just couldn't be done live, Jimmy was throwing in all sorts of tags and counterpoint in the studio arrangements.
  18. Jimmy will be seen playing, but in the studio adding second guitars to live tracks and/or replacing funky notes in solos. What I find amusing but also sad is that Plant and Jones probably just gave Jimmy the thumb's up, put out whatever you want. If Plant and Jones WERE involved, probably the re-re-re-companions blah-blah may have been a lot better.. Page has to have much more studio + live stuff. I find it preposterous that Jimmy would just throw out real alt versions of songs and experiments with his guitar orchestra's to be used in songs. Well the complete BBC sessions came out good, Page at least being subtle with his sonic surgery.. Live would be great, but realize what happend with HTWWW, and live NQ from 73'. I'm not sure fans would love a box for the EC shows, because unless you make it at most a comp of 3 shows, the multi-track glory would sound very annoying. What ?? I don't remember the guitar cutting thru in that section ?? Or, wasn't Plant a lot more ragged in the 5/24 "Woodstock" section of D&C Well, I admit I'd love to get an official EC box regardless.
  19. WGG is great, but not sure about Plant singing high like at RAH. A sleeper track, with Page strutting around with the funky beat, HOFN.. Then cut short, leading into NFBM. The second half of HOFN has too many overdubs and EQ trickery to convince live.
  20. Well the Wanton Song, but the performances were not up to speed. Later on with P/P, this song really cranked
  21. Black Dog in film TSRTS

    Yup, sure, the splicing was to a degree necessary. And Dancing Days, very few versions convince, some of the studio version just didn't translate live, too many EQ guitar shifts for which there wasn't really a pedal for that , even now. Again, I have some 73' Stairway's which IMO are even a bit better than the TSRTS version. And boots, no alterations. So true though, back then to film and record a almost complete show, and make all match , very difficult.
  22. Black Dog in film TSRTS

    Pretty sure Over the Hills was there as well, but the Ip man is usually right. Dancing Days was played on that tour as well, but seemed to get phased out close to the "Garden Tapes". Still don't get why Page didn't leave the original NQ in; Many consider this a all time live classic, even with some splicing and studio trickery. The thing is, Zep played so many amazing versions of songs on boots with no trickery in 73', does it really matter that Page always stuck his hands in things that basically blew away 95% of other bands out there ? Heartreaker, the original ommission, wasn't legendary but IMO very good to excellent., again the odd ommisson, Page's soloing is pretty far up there.
  23. Presence Success

    Yeah, I've even read/heard that a lot of the album( Well, maybe not TFO) Jimmy had a harsh guitar tone for most of the album. The solos in Achilles and HOFN, you can really hear a boosted midrange and a surely super boosted treble EQ wise. In fact, unless you're talking about the 60''s and earlier recording tech, I've never heard anything in the Zep days that has such creative and obviously artfully applied screeching treble than the ALS solo. I noticed this stuff even before I was a musician. Page hadn't really used these extreme EQ sounds before Presence, and not after. PG and ITTOD of course have their dissonant moments, but nothing like Presence. Some fans may have been turned off by the rather harsh guitar sounds in many of the songs.
  24. Presence Success

    ITTOD sold like crazy in 79', so not so sure punk had pushed the band into a corner.. I think some of Presence Jimmy may have gone over some fans' heads with all the bouncing and dancing guitar parts. I think the album may have appealed more to musicians, as some of the elaborate arrangements were not really comparable to anything else out there.
  25. Presence

    What's interesting about Presence is at least where I live, It was the first Zep album to be discounted. Of course Coda quickly was discounted as well. I think that live because Zep only played Achilles and NFBM, that may have limited it's exposure.