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Everything posted by Mithril46

  1. Presence Success

    Yeah, I've even read/heard that a lot of the album( Well, maybe not TFO) Jimmy had a harsh guitar tone for most of the album. The solos in Achilles and HOFN, you can really hear a boosted midrange and a surely super boosted treble EQ wise. In fact, unless you're talking about the 60''s and earlier recording tech, I've never heard anything in the Zep days that has such creative and obviously artfully applied screeching treble than the ALS solo. I noticed this stuff even before I was a musician. Page hadn't really used these extreme EQ sounds before Presence, and not after. PG and ITTOD of course have their dissonant moments, but nothing like Presence. Some fans may have been turned off by the rather harsh guitar sounds in many of the songs.
  2. Presence Success

    ITTOD sold like crazy in 79', so not so sure punk had pushed the band into a corner.. I think some of Presence Jimmy may have gone over some fans' heads with all the bouncing and dancing guitar parts. I think the album may have appealed more to musicians, as some of the elaborate arrangements were not really comparable to anything else out there.
  3. Presence

    What's interesting about Presence is at least where I live, It was the first Zep album to be discounted. Of course Coda quickly was discounted as well. I think that live because Zep only played Achilles and NFBM, that may have limited it's exposure.
  4. Presence

    Yeah, that opening riff is something in itself. I think the band could have come back to it, or play a variation of it later in the song.. Maybe some don't like TFO because it is mainly a brooding song. SIBLY is slow blues too but there is much more emotional variation in it or moods. TFO is basically I'm stuck here in this situation, I just have to deal with it, nowhere to run or hide.. But that is my view on the music and lyrics, others opinions may differ. Overall great album, at the time Jimmy really was gold standard as far as imaginative guitar wizards go.
  5. I remember hearing the "full length" version of HHWCID on the radio before Coda. The full length version ends with the various stringed instruments all colliding together, and all the sound being cut off entirely, no fade out at all. However, for public release Jimmy probably thought that original ending was too abrupt and chaotic. Also all or a lot of TRB had guitar overdubs , or at least some version had it.
  6. Parents Comments About Zeppelin

    My father hated 85% of rock but did like some songs which were classically influenced, like BIGLY. Believe it or not, but in my area when TSRTS was playing in the midnight movie circuit, In the theaters, the review said that the movie had much onstage lewd behavior and sex gyrations not suitable for teens, even preteens. My area is pretty liberal, this seemed way overboard, ridiculous. My mother didn't like their presentation or music, but saw no reason to ban it or anything. I think that much Blues simply uses different scales in matter foreign to Euro -classical players, and that's one big reason why the two styles may clash considerably.
  7. Ha Ha. I actually know some people whose description totally matches the scenario that lies been described. Who will actually get murderously angry if their lack of job dilemma is mentioned. Oh, Oh,....politics and Zep forum, no good.
  8. Chris Squire Rumours

    What a thread. As some mentioned, Squire himself actually was somewhat of a party animal. In fact I'm pretty sure from what I read and saw online, Chris gained a not small amount of weight from drinking. Plus, no one read the article where Chris talks about XYZ, how he and Jimmy took a lot of drugs at those sessions ?? It is true that Chris never allowed any habits he had to compromise his playing. And Alan White(Yes drummer) said the XYZ project wasn't a lark, it was a real attempt to forming a new band. Some of Jimmy's XYZ solos sound much more energetic and interesting than the Firm. Not to be rude, but this thing with JPJ going to keys, getting another new member to play bass, this must have been something that was overheard by a non-member (Grant too) in a pub or something. Jimmy in particular, he wouldn't ever want every song to have keys. This is in the Hoskins book ? What page ?
  9. Zeppelin's official live recordings

    Jimmy being cheap, absolutely. Jimmy was probably cheap in the studio as well,probably taping over alternative arrangements . For a guitarist like Jimmy who is a guitar orchestrator, ,I found the companions really bare. Anyway the lack of pro official live Zep is unfortunate. However, when Jimmy cleans up the live stuff(mainly HTWWW) despite great performances, Jimmy IMO does so much sonic surgery that the end result is neither fish nor fowl. TSRTS is not too bad, but that's also because for example on that tour, Jimmy at times played solos that were even better than anything in the movie, so for all the awareness of the soundtrack being patched together, again Jimmy played stuff much better than what's in the movie. In that case, it doesn't matter, there was amazing music going on anyway.
  10. Presence

    Yeah, and much of what was commented showed how Jimmy was being expressionalistic and artichectural often in the same song. Jimmy is a sound sculptor, not just a riff machine. There are Zep songs which are almost mathematical in their structure, and songs which have a sort of amoeba like element. Like Achillies is pretty mathematical in its precision, yet there are quite a few parts that have a fluid and bleeding quality as well. So many rock guitarists never get even close to what Page was doing in the 70's and Presence. Jimmy was trying IMHO to evoke music which had such strong moods or layers of symetries which went way beyond just riffs.
  11. What next? AGAIN

    Those are great ideas, but Plant and Page have moved so far apart, just like the companions, Robert didn't do much and just said he trusted Jimmy's instincts. Half true on trusting Jimmy, But I really think Robert didn't really want to be around Jimmy anymore in the first place. No way I could now see some comprehensive career retrospective with sincere good humor and reminiscing with the remaining 3 Zep's. For example I, It's been learned in the last 5-10 years that JPJ actually created a very substantial amount of Zep's material. Not something Jimmy wants to acknowledge. About the computer "fixing" up uneven sound or harsh texture etc., Jimmy actually did do that with HTWWW, and although it is ( the 2 nights) excellent playing and overall performance, Jimmy messed up. Many fans including myself felt that Jimmy went way overboard tweaking whatever he deemed sloppy or a bit compromised audio wise. The problem is that it is extremely obvious where his he's sticking his fingers in, so parts of HTWWW end up sounding like the most bizarre (albeit clear) boot you've ever heard. That's why , great, more official live stuff, someone must put the brakes on Jimmy's constant meddling.
  12. What next? AGAIN

    I understand totally the idea that particularly studio wise there is nothing left. I kid you not, but this was entirely the case believed and stated by band members when CODA came out. Somebody posted that Zep most of the time in the studio wanted to bang out songs quickly and be as spontaneous as possible. Definetly to a certain extent, but Jimmy's guitar orchestrations are something which must be poured over, to see which overdubs work best for a certain part or song. Jimmy does not have JPJ''s arranging or orchestrating skills..Of course Jimmy is likely hearing certain possibilities of layering the guitar parts. But in Jimmy's case, there probably are quite a few times when he has to lay these ideas down on tape, so there has to be at least some songs which have quite different or at least noticeably different guitar parts. Jimmy was the master guitar orchestrator of the 70's. I find it incredible to believe that Jimmy just played over other guitar possibilities, thus erasing what he played before. Or that Jimmy just discarded different versions of songs. Hopefully this can be understood, although it may be a lot of work for Jimmy. And that may be reason why Jimmy might pull his hair out thinking what version of a song should be released. Again, unless you understand that Jimmy had to experiment with different guitar parts , and having to evaluate how it all works out in a song, there has to be more studio stuff.
  13. Presence

    Well I think Jimmy was doing some unusual EQ settings on parts and whole songs. HOFN has so many overdubs and sudden EQ spikes, even today I have not really heard almost any guitarist do that live., to suddenly ramp up the midrange,dip the bass, and at the same time have high notes suddenly go from muted to shrill, and back. There is no pedal for this. NFBM has none of this, or very little, so there isn't much challenge to do the song live. RO certainly could be done, but even this song has sudden EQ shifts so some of the song would have to be adapted for live. Actually, Dancing Days is probably a clearer example of what I mean to say; live certain parts were just not easily replicated, probably why the song was only done in 72'-73'. For Your Love was cool at 07', but even this song Jimmy couldn't mix all the guitars together. Presence is high up there for me as well, at that time no one was doing the guitar orchestra's like Jimmy.
  14. What next? AGAIN

    Well this is a private argument, but there are quite a few Zep tunes which are quite far from what most would call "rock", and rarelygot played even a long time ago. At the same time, "rock" has become a meaningless term. The Doors were a mainly rock group ? Most of Floyd rock ? Even the Stones ?( watch it now, the Stones have a jambalaya stew of styles on most albums, not just "Satisfaction"). But no comment on Plant's comments. But Kashmir takes the cake, it is a bit psychedelic, totally exotic and unique, it is just called rock for easy reference. There are so many brilliant elements colliding in Kashmir, it is unlableable..
  15. What next? AGAIN

    I actually, no kidding, just accepted Zep's final statement in 80', no more Bonzo, no more Zep. I have certainly followed and seen many good/ great shows by the various solo projects and P/P half Zep, but I never confused it with the original Zep. This is probably very hard to understand if you weren't old enough or into Zep when the crashing halt came. I am prejudiced however not only by it being impossible to replace Bonzo, but the fact that it took a very long time for Jimmy to be rehabbed both musically and substance wise. So to me Jimmy wasn't really "back" till Outrider, and it would be a sad sight for the band to continue with a further debilitated PAGE.
  16. Yeah, it's true, no actual promoter was mentioned specifically for some of these likely musically and personally taxing tours. However, pretty sure the Eagles first comeback was at least 100 G's, not sure about how the money split up. Back to Plant's dilemma with Stairway, many good points. Although Page up till the solo IMO was very good even in 77', I agree 77' on many, many solos were disjointed and had little of the cohesive power and beauty of most of 73'. In a way it's as if the Eagles ignored the also famous solo for Hotel California. I wouldn't be surprised if Plant actually saw the cracks widening even in 75'. I remember earlier in Zep Page had said you should give your all on stage, play a while, and realize fans may be coming from far away.. Well, Zep played very long shows in 77', but I'm sure that Robert was internally cringing at many of Jimmy's at times sub-professional performances. This could be why as Robert's solo career went on, he became a control freak. I think Robert liked Jimmy's "tight but loose" comments about Zep, but after Zep Robert made many indirect comments about the shambles that Zep could be, probably aimed at Jimmy. STH, true, without at least a good solo, loses focus and momentum. But Jimmy at least somewhat always had this problem, where the live solo kills the studio, or the live solo is nowhere near the studio, from show to show even.
  17. That's a good point but promoters have offered Zep and a complete Floyd a 1/4 billion to tour yet they don't. I think sometimes fans may not understand that regardless of the money, and most of the desired bands are already quite rich., it's just not worth the compromises and enormous tensions between some members.
  18. Actually I'm pretty sure STH 95' was like 15 seconds long, just a prank or something. For some reason I myself have never gotten sick of the studio version first heard in eigth grade. For some reason the song has seemed incredibly epic and dramatic for me. Almost as if the song has some obscured cosmic truth which the band is in touch with, along with other Zep tunes.. Live there are incredible versions and terrible versions. I don't blame anyone for never wanting to hear the song again, just like Freebird, Satisfaction, anything from Pink Floyd The Wall, etc. I think Plant noticed that regardless of how a live version went, fans ate it up. Many artists have wrestled with this dilemna as well.
  19. Live better than Studio

    Some versions of Thank You lack the studio "mood", but there are many versions which are pretty epic and have across the board superlative improv and are barn burners. I always thought studio WLL had a focus and primal energy which the live versions didn't really have., although the Rockabilly and other sections after Jimmy's solo set up a totally party atmosphere which is great, it really sounds like a celebration. I thought also besides an occasional great solo by Jimmy, NFBM never really did much more than the studio track. Also, early on versions of BIGLY, Jimmy for some odd reason was very sloppy on the fingerpicking for this song. The rest of the song was powerful, more than studio, but it was incredibly raw, not much subtlety there. Although at that time Zep's main aim was to blow up anywhere they played.
  20. Yeah, not a bad interview, but nothing a heavy Zep fan hadn't known before. Jimmy certainly looks old, but older people who are not healthy tend to have rather "dead" eyes. Jimmy's eyes still dance about, and he retains animation not that common in someone that old. Unfortunately, this means little for the future output Zep or new material.
  21. Thanks to fans, Final concert

    Unfortunately this thread, no debate. For all those companion discs, live "COMPLETE" this or that, Plant just handed the keys to Jimmy. Not just trust, but also I don't think Robert wants to be in the same room alone with Jimmy.
  22. Thanks to fans, Final concert

    The main premise, to have one concert now, even Jimmy wouldn't do it. Same as the 07'. Much rehearsal, anticipation, do a good gig, then nothing. Jimmy tore his hair out once about this, no go unless it's a full tour. Too many hard feelings between Jimmy and Robert now anyway.
  23. Bootlegs

    I just would rather pipe in like some others that if ANY band was supposed to be bootlegged, and many concerts taped even illegally, you simply couldn't find a better band to bootleg. Many fans including myself look upon many shows almost as the Crown Jewels of R'nRoll., and unlike some who think Zep will be slowly and eventually forgotten, I totally disagree. With all their flaws, Led Zep live was often magical and mythological, and you can't manufacture or can what they did. Again, bootlegging is illegal, but not having all the live stuff we have now , that would be a far worse crime or state of affairs.
  24. I kind of like HTWWW a bit, but prefer the boots. Page actually overdubbed/ redid parts of solos, and even added a second guitar to sections of The Ocean. I was teaching guitar when the release came out, and a student was puzzled about how to play a certain part of the Ocean. Well, Jimmy had added a second guitar......TSRTS has it's trickery as well, but Zep is not the Eagles or Fleetwould Mac, the band is meant to be live without a net. That's also why I'm not too confident about future live official releases.
  25. The Rain Song

    Awesome song. And that ending, where Page sounds like he's playing a dulcimer or some other obscure very old English/ Irish instrument, is brilliant. I am in fact amazed this song didn't have a thread; Is it sure maybe a few years ago it did ? The song by most fans is considered a classic, not just very good, etc.. Maybe it was mentioned as the most beautiful Zep song, and other threads, never a dedicated thread.