gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Such aspirations are a noble ideal, however they demonstrate complete ignorance of the nature of the Chinese regime, the tyranny which exists and the scale and horrors of human rights atrocities operating in communist China. It's an innocent hope to dream that music can moderate the cultural genocide, censorship, forced labor camps, oppression and violations that is such a feature of China's draconian regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glicine Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Yeah, so cut off every chance of communication is the only right way . Nice try, indeed. Whatever, why don't you fly to London and sit in front of Jimmy Page's house and pull his legs when he makes his way to Beijing? Much more effective than making posts here and arguing with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Such aspirations are a noble ideal, however they demonstrate complete ignorance of the nature of the Chinese regime, the tyranny which exists and the scale and horrors of human rights atrocities operating in communist China. It's an innocent hope to dream that music can moderate the cultural genocide, censorship, forced labor camps, oppression and violations that is such a feature of China's draconian regime. It's just plain common sense. BTW I'm not ignorant, on the contrary I am very much aware of what is going on in the world and have been for over 50 years. I have witnessed many things over the years some brilliant and some inhumane. Pointing the finger and criticising is not conducive to bringing about change. Leading by example is. How soon we forget that western regimes have been and in some cases still are, guilty of the atrocities you mentioned. I suppose the Chinese people might not prefer a day of music as opposed to the normal humdrum of the apparent oppressed life they normally lead. Shall we deny what some of us here take for granted in the form of a music event? I would hope not, regardless of our politics or ideologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The problem is that appeasing China, or collaborating with propaganda events, will not result in any reduction in the violent oppression and abuses. As known by the English Government Beijing is contemptuously indifferent to any attempt to moderate or even crticize its appalling record. This event has only one purpose, to present a glossy and human mask, to conceal the brutalities and suppresion in China. It is a staged deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 "Within totalitarian China and the occupied territories of Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia and Manchuria there is no genuine peace, only oppression and state violence. While environmental destruction and pollution is a widespread issue across China. Tibetans and Uyghurs are brutally denied the very rights this event is purportedly promoting. In light of China’s appalling record on human rights it is an obscenity that anyone would consider staging such an event there, it would be like organizing a concert for peace in Cambodia under the tyranny of Khymer Rouge!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Appeasement? Are you serious? We all know the problems and what's your solution? Oh, that's right boycott a concert. That'll do it and everything will be rosy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Actually the appeal was for Jimmy not too associate ewith this event for the reasons detailed. The issue of changing China was not proposed my me, clearly that objective cannot be realized by playing chords in the key of appeasement and collaboration. Actvely supporting and participating in this event cleary demands colloboration and endorese the very regime which is inflicting such violatiomns and oppression in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Okay so we just turn our back on the people who need our help the most just to spite the regime and to be seen as non collaborators? The past cannot be changed but we are talking about the future and it starts here and now. I suppose the Olympic movement is guilty of supporting oppression too? I know they "allegedly" dispossesed homeless people to build the venues and no doubt trundled them off to concentration camps or executed them or even used them as forced labour to build them. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigzepfan Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 If we want China to change then we shouldn't assist in denying their opportunity to do so. They are not going to do it overnight and this appears to be a first step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 China has been inflicting atrocities since 1949, no change no moderation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The list of atrocities, oppression is long indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I suppose the Olympic movement is guilty of supporting oppression too? Yes, actually but then again the aims remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 There's a long list of artists other than Jimmy Page who have the audacity to perform at this event. I suggest visiting their websites and chastising them and enlightening their fans on what is right and wrong in this world of ours. There is more work to be done, but not here, we get it, 'China's bad, don't play there' or the 'enviro/socialist agenda'. See, I've been taught well, thank you so much. Now, here's a list of just a few of the artists performing, feel free to spend copious amounts of time teaching them and their fans on the ways of the world, as you see it: Wyclef, Prince, Jay-Z, Cold Play, Gwen Stefani, Christina Aguilera, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Maroon 5, Kanye West, Lady GaGa, Rob Thomas, Seal, Alicia Keyes, Black Eyed Peas, Depeche Mode, Green Day etc.etc... yes, there's alot more. Spread the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Indeed there are other artists named as playing at this troubling event, not that their seeming involvement absolves the ethical concerns of association with such a regime as China's. My comments here are due to a lifetime appreciation of Led Zeppelin, and Jimmy's guitar playing in particular. However, some things are just plain wrong, however much our attachment and loyalties may obscure our ability to see things in a detached and objective way. Associating, in such a high profile and influential manner, with a concert that is simply a disguised propaganda event for the world's most oppresive regime is not good. No matter how many excuses or rationalizations fans may employ to see Jimmy performing in a project funded, organized, sanctioned and manipulated by the Chinese Communist Party, the same thugs who cold-bloodedly executed the English guy, is not a comfortable prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glicine Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Why have you left out the fact that the english guy smuggled 4 kilos of heroin into China? You might hate China, but don't let your hate twist the standard understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 There are countless numbers of Tibetans, Uyghurs and Chinese tortured, brutalized ad killed by the Chinese Regime that Jimmy should reconsider associating his involvement with, that were entirely innocent, Such is the nature of communist China. As to that English guy no matter what the circumstances his heartless killing cannot be excused or left uncondemned, unless of course one has pro-Chinese sympathies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Why have you left out the fact that the english guy smuggled 4 kilos of heroin into China? You might hate China, but don't let your hate twist the standard understanding. What is really pathetic is that your post has turned into a platform for peoples political views. When did ledzeppelin.com turn into a cable news program? That's not what I visit this forum for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glicine Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Eyyy, I give up. I'm alreay eating my own words by discussing political stuff here, and I'm making a huge mistake, trying talk to someone who has absolutely no intention of communicating. Whatever, if you think your posts can stop Jimmy from going to China, keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonzoLikeDrumer Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The striking difference between post-Mao China and Russia or Germany in the 1930s is due to the difference between the geostrategy as conceived by Stalin or Hitler in the 1930s and as understood by the Chinese rulers today. In the 1930s the great leader, a man of genius, a superman, was to lead his army into battle, while his militarized country was to produce for him the biggest army possible. Every soldier or civilian was to be indoctrinated in a single faith, and dissenters were traitors. Today China has no need for the great leader to lead his army into battle. During the next world war, which may be over in minutes, the Chinese government are to watch it as a scientific experiment is watched today from an observation center. The rulers will be as impersonal as the scientists. Events such as "Show for Peace" help persuade those who aren't particularly sensitive to an absence of political freedom to feel themselves in China as in a free society - open, tolerant, diverse, dynamic, intensely alive, vibrant, comfortable, financially rewarding, enjoyable, scientifically and culturally stimulating. This is exactly why we have not and may never have a 3rd world war (not counting the war on terror), there is no way to win a world war as we have found out in the first two that we conducted. As silly as it may seem to us now there was at one time the need to have a leader and to need to be lead by the one who can give a good speech and have charisma to be a so called righteous person above all, it was the way to win the heart's and mind's, no mater what you wanted to do. Now that the world is much more educated (over all) and we have had a taste of the biggest kid's on the block getting a black eye, the USA in the war in Vietnam and the USSR with the fall of the Berlin wall and also in Afghanistan. We all can see that the law's of "Survival of the fittest" is not always the true path. Yes, Germany and Japan did do a quickie on there proclaimed enemy's, but, they both had those high and mighty leader's that where considered in there time to be, ruthless. Not nearly as bad as the king's and emperor's of long ago, but still, they where quite mean and nasty to some of the people they where against. Now a day's the countries are staying in there own little spot's of the world and are just taking over with industry and their other economical corporations. At least we are not killing each other as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glicine Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 What is really pathetic is that your post has turned into a platform for peoples political views. When did ledzeppelin.com turn into a cable news program? That's not what I visit this forum for. You're right snapper, I tried to ask people to move the political discussion to the Ramble On section, without success. And now, as I've stated in my last post, I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Now, here's a list of just a few of the artists performing, feel free to spend copious amounts of time teaching them and their fans on the ways of the world, as you see it: Wyclef, Prince, Jay-Z, Cold Play, Gwen Stefani, Christina Aguilera, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Maroon 5, Kanye West, Lady GaGa, Rob Thomas, Seal, Alicia Keyes, Black Eyed Peas, Depeche Mode, Green Day etc.etc... yes, there's alot more. Hold up! X-tina is playing China?! Hey, she'll probably wear red. I think I'm going to have to attend this concert after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 This is exactly why we have not and may never have a 3rd world war (not counting the war on terror), there is no way to win a world war as we have found out in the first two that we conducted. As silly as it may seem to us now there was at one time the need to have a leader and to need to be lead by the one who can give a good speech and have charisma to be a so called righteous person above all, was the way to win the heart's and mind's, no mater what you wanted to do. Now that the world is much more educated (over all) and we have had a taste of the biggest kid's on the block getting a black eye, the USA in the war in Vietnam and the USSR with the fall of the Berlin wall and also in Afghanistan. We all can see that the law's of "Survival of the fittest" is not always the true path. Yes, Germany and Japan did do a quickie on there proclaimed enemy's, but, they both had those high and mighty leader's that where considered in there time to be, ruthless. Not nearly as bad as the king's and emperor's of long ago, but still, they where quite mean and nasty to some of the people they where against. Now a day's the countries are staying in there own little spot's of the world and are just taking over with industry and their other economical corporations. At least we are not killing each other as much. There's a lot presented in this post I'd like to respond to but it would be off-topic. Suffice to say it is the battle between capitalism and communism shaping events today and well into the future. For this reason China is such a paradox, for they want rock concerts and Levis but do not want political freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Folks, we can polish this anyway we choose, which is what appears to be happening, but the truth is that participating in such an event, organized by a regime which has the blood of Tibetans, Uygurs amd Chinese upon its hands, sends a clear signal to the Chinese leadership (and beyond) that the artist in not concerned with either human rigths or freedom enought to take a stand of principle, to say no to such an obvious public relations exercise by China, to express solidarity with those who suffer at the hands of this brutal authority. Jimmy is an honourable and compasioante guy, whose efforts in Brazil reveals that he cares about the oppressed and cherishes basic human values, so his agreement to perform, at an event engineered by the world's most oppressive state, is both puzzling and uncomfortable. The reality is that no amount of 'cultural exchange', softly-softly diplomacy has lessened to any degree the suppression and state violence in China. It's foolishly innocent to try and convince the conscience that this event, and Jimmy's role, is part of such a process. Beijing's bully-boys are using Jimmy and others for their own dark purposes, the object being to create an exciting and glamorous illusion to the world that China cares and values peace and the environment. Yes, and the world is flat after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 There's a lot presented in this post I'd like to respond to but it would be off-topic. Yes, to be "off-topic" would be very wrong. You wouldn't dare think of doing that! Anwyays, lets get back on topic, ie: your political views, continue....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gseehq Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 There may, in-part, be such motivations behind the event, it clearly is designed to paint a positive gloss over the corrupt and viscious reality which exists inside China. Moreover, whatever illusion of 'freedom' it may present the atrocities will continue, beyond the steel and glass of that stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.