Destroyer

[downtime672]

I was Just listening to destroyer and the most recent version I have has no robert talking between songs or should i say plantations.Am i crazy or are there other versions with the plantations.If there is can some one tell me witch one to acquire.

[beetleron]

certainly the early lp versions have some plantations between songs.....i've noticed some do vary though.....or should a say some are omitted

[Nutrocker]

I was Just listening to destroyer and the most recent version I have has no robert talking between songs or should i say plantations.Am i crazy or are there other versions with the plantations.If there is can some one tell me witch one to acquire.

Interesting...you're sure this version is the soundboard from April 27 and NOT the audience from April 28? 'Cos that April 28 recording is cut between the songs so there aren't really any Plantations. I don't think I've heard of a version of the classic Destroyer boot having the Plantations cut (is there one?)

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

I have to ask, what is such the big deal about Destroyer? Tbh, I haven't really listened to it so maybe thats why but I just see people on the forum and elsewhere talking about the show.

[downtime672]

I definitly Have the soundboard from april 27 Song remains the same fades in to start it off.There is no introduction of any songs and also i just realized rock and roll and trampled under foot is missing.I did just see a version called maximum destroyer EVSD maybe ill have better luck with that.

[beetleron]

that rambleonzep site has great info on what could/should be there

[downtime672]

that rambleonzep site has great info on what could/should be there

Hey Thanks

[weedwacker]

I have to ask, what is such the big deal about Destroyer? Tbh, I haven't really listened to it so maybe thats why but I just see people on the forum and elsewhere talking about the show.

You must be new to the whole world of live zeppelin recordings so here is the main reason why. For the longest time the recording for 4/27/77 known as Destroyer was the only board recording for 77 available period and also was one of the 1st board recordings to surface period (making it's first appearance on vinyl in the late 70's). Unlike today with a glut of soundboard recordings you had very little at that time and most everything unofficial that was what you called a soundboard recording was sourced from FM broadcasts like the BBC stuff, Vancouver 70 and the 4/27/69 San Francisco recording (which original copies came from a KSAN or KSJO broadcast). It is a historically significant recording in the annals of led zeppelin live recordings for collectors for this reason. It is easy to look at the recording and go what is the big deal when not taken in context of the bigger picture.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

You must be new to the whole world of live zeppelin recordings so here is the main reason why. For the longest time the recording for 4/27/77 known as Destroyer was the only board recording for 77 available period and also was one of the 1st board recordings to surface period (making it's first appearance on vinyl in the late 70's). Unlike today with a glut of soundboard recordings you had very little at that time and most everything unofficial that was what you called a soundboard recording was sourced from FM broadcasts like the BBC stuff, Vancouver 70 and the 4/27/69 San Francisco recording (which original copies came from a KSAN or KSJO broadcast). It is a historically significant recording in the annals of led zeppelin live recordings for collectors for this reason. It is easy to look at the recording and go what is the big deal when not taken in context of the bigger picture.

no I'm not actually; I have a very wide collection mostly ranging from 1972-1977. I have just never bother to look for it. But thanks for the clarification.

[downtime672]

My problem is solved I had the swingin pig records version.All is well I found the complete show .When I was looking for that show I happened to see a show Called Tulsa symphony Ode To Joy Tulsa Oklahoma 70 Can anybody give me a review?

[zep_head]

I have an lp from that show called "Sweet Jelly Roll". It was released by Rock Solid Records in the mid eighties. To the best of my recollection( it has been a while since I've heard it) there are no Plantations between songs on this version. It too has the cut in to the beginning of TSRTS.

I'll check & confirm later.

[Tea for Tanja]

I was never very interested in the " Destroyer" .Sound and performance is not so good.I like the" Badgeholders" much more.

[SuperDave]

The other night in Cleveland is so much better. Sounds fresh, as well as being a better performance. Nutrocker is worth it overall (if you were to buy it just for this, not that you need to this these days with torrents etc.) The other show even though, being a soundboard sounds quite stale and the audience seems quite removed from the performance.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

I was never very interested in the " Destroyer" .Sound and performance is not so good.I like the" Badgeholders" much more.

I think I heard one song and didn't thing it was the greatest either. I do concur that "Badgeholders" is fantastic!

[Nutrocker]

I think I heard one song and didn't thing it was the greatest either. I do concur that "Badgeholders" is fantastic!

"Badgeholders" is all the '77 one really needs IMO (says the sadomasochistic freak who has all the available '77 shows and listens to them on a fairly regular basis )

Regarding the two Cleveland shows...why do I get the feeling that, if the situation were reversed and it was the 27th that was an audience recording and the 28th was the soundboard, we'd all be knocking the 28th and praising the 27th? 1977 is best appreciated through the audience tapes...the handful of '77 soundboards we got... the multitude of mistakes, etc come through with a bit too much clarity on the SDBs. YMMV.

The April 27th show gets a bad rap, sure, but I've always enjoyed it; I love Robert's impassioned screams on IMTOD, the guitar solo in NQ is pretty decent (too bad the piano solo and boogie section are cut...I reckon the April 27th boogie section jam was along the lines of the Atlanta or Cincinatti boogies) and, for my money, it's my favourite live version of "Ten Years Gone" period. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best one, necessarily (though I may have stated that elsewhere in these discussions) but Jimmy played it well that night. Considering how often he totally blew the TYG solos, April 27 isn't that bad a'tall.

"Destroyer" may be a generally average performance (I won't go so far as to call it mediocre) but compared to the previous gig in Louisville it might as well be the "Badgeholders" show IMO! Sure, it was cool that the dude found his old Louisville recording in his garage a few years back and shared it out, but considering how much of trainwreck the performance was he probably could have kept it under wraps and we wouldn't be missing much of anything...although as with Tempe you don't hear the punters booing on the Louisville recording. Still one of the worst '77 shows IMO.

That said, Atlanta and the second Cleveland show get my vote as the best of the first leg of '77.

[Tea for Tanja]

Does anybody know ,why the shows of the 77 tour turned out to be so very diffrent ?

[Walter]

for my money, it's my favourite live version of "Ten Years Gone" period. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best one, necessarily (though I may have stated that elsewhere in these discussions) but Jimmy played it well that night. Considering how often he totally blew the TYG solos, April 27 isn't that bad a'tall.

I completely agree with your assessment of TYG. I do enjoy the "Plantations" before the song and also leading up to the acoustic set as well. From TYG through Kashmir, I think the show is not bad at all (with the usual exception of WS/BMS). I really enjoy the mix on Kashmir and Robert's wail - which is a major determining factor of how well I rate Kashmir - are both very good. I may have to dust that one off and give it a listen over the weekend.

I always enjoy your takes on the '77 tour.

Peace.

[Nutrocker]

Does anybody know ,why the shows of the 77 tour turned out to be so very diffrent ?

(disclaimer: somebody who actually attended one of these shows should add a word or two here as well- I was nine at the time )

One way or another, Zeppelin was trying to do something different in 1977. They completely shook up their set list, as it were, for the first time in about four years. The main problem from the outset seemed to be they just didn't quite have the stamina to pull it off like in the old days. (I've played in bands myself and even two hours or so can be heavy- never mind the fucking three an a half hour marathons Led Zeppelin used to play.) And the pacing of the songs looked pretty good on paper- but on a few of the tapes of the shows at least you can hear the boredom set in during Page, Jones or Bonham's solos (the oft mentioned "We've had of the guitar lesson!" on Listen To This Eddie, etc). Some nights were just off- really off, even for Zeppelin's normal standards. Most nights, though, seemed to work in the end. Even some of the sloppier shows -such as that June 7 MSG show in retrospect- are still pretty good shows. Others, like Tempe (shit, what they played of the third leg in general) are pretty shocking in places. Mind you, they spent the bucks on putting on a damn good concert as well, laser pyramids and such...so even some of the musical whoopsies manage to come off.

Of course, you have to say, "What would it have been like if they were a bit less schwacked out and crazy?"...well, the drugs showed, yes, but some of that was already kicking in earlier. Some nights were worse than others. I think Jimmy's thing in Chicago (hey, he could have been on a bender from the beginning of the tour and it all caught up with him, who knows? ) was a wake up call as far as limitations went IMO. And we of course also know from the Seattle video that Page wasn't just standing there during the opening numbers every show, as some of the 8mm clips that have popped up illustrate. The ironic thing in the end is that, the main idea behind the flow of the performance was based on Robert Plant's ability to do his thing post accident. Arguably Plant comes off best in '77, closely followed by Bonham, who some nights indeed steals the show. I love Jonesy, and I love the 8 string, but again IMO he really should have left the Alembics at home...that old Fender Jazz ('62?) just sounded better live. Some nights Page's worries about JPJ drowning him out were warranted.

Still, it was the biggest tour anybody had ever put on, at that point in time- only stadiums could top the indoor attendance records at some of these shows. In hindsight, though there were at least a couple of close calls, they were lucky not to experience the kind of thing that happened to The Who in Cincinatti two years later. Tampa being the obvious exception, but again even Peter Grant admitted that if they'd been in their right minds at the time they'd have caught the ticket mixup. I've said before, yeah, maybe their eyes were a little bit too big for their stomachs in '77 but some of those concerts are still the best anybody has ever put on. And ultimately that's what makes the 1977 tour special for me, at least...the best of the tour just captures everything I like about Led Zeppelin perfectly.

[beetleron]

i really like the destroyer show......don't know why it gets a bad rap......great SIBLEY, great 77 trampled....nice acoustic set..

overall better than most 77 shows i've heard

course it has been around for a long time so it was the only thing out there for a while (as previously stated)

[weedwacker]

(disclaimer: somebody who actually attended one of these shows should add a word or two here as well- I was nine at the time )

Still, it was the biggest tour anybody had ever put on, at that point in time

Incorrect E.L.P.'s 77 orchestra tour was larger and more ambitious than Zep's grandest attempt at touring excess. It was also a collossal financial failure almost bankrupting the band and forcing them to drop the full orchestra from the tour after a handful of shows.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

(disclaimer: somebody who actually attended one of these shows should add a word or two here as well- I was nine at the time )

One way or another, Zeppelin was trying to do something different in 1977. They completely shook up their set list, as it were, for the first time in about four years. The main problem from the outset seemed to be they just didn't quite have the stamina to pull it off like in the old days. (I've played in bands myself and even two hours or so can be heavy- never mind the fucking three an a half hour marathons Led Zeppelin used to play.) And the pacing of the songs looked pretty good on paper- but on a few of the tapes of the shows at least you can hear the boredom set in during Page, Jones or Bonham's solos (the oft mentioned "We've had of the guitar lesson!" on Listen To This Eddie, etc). Some nights were just off- really off, even for Zeppelin's normal standards. Most nights, though, seemed to work in the end. Even some of the sloppier shows -such as that June 7 MSG show in retrospect- are still pretty good shows. Others, like Tempe (shit, what they played of the third leg in general) are pretty shocking in places. Mind you, they spent the bucks on putting on a damn good concert as well, laser pyramids and such...so even some of the musical whoopsies manage to come off.

Of course, you have to say, "What would it have been like if they were a bit less schwacked out and crazy?"...well, the drugs showed, yes, but some of that was already kicking in earlier. Some nights were worse than others. I think Jimmy's thing in Chicago (hey, he could have been on a bender from the beginning of the tour and it all caught up with him, who knows? ) was a wake up call as far as limitations went IMO. And we of course also know from the Seattle video that Page wasn't just standing there during the opening numbers every show, as some of the 8mm clips that have popped up illustrate. The ironic thing in the end is that, the main idea behind the flow of the performance was based on Robert Plant's ability to do his thing post accident. Arguably Plant comes off best in '77, closely followed by Bonham, who some nights indeed steals the show. I love Jonesy, and I love the 8 string, but again IMO he really should have left the Alembics at home...that old Fender Jazz ('62?) just sounded better live. Some nights Page's worries about JPJ drowning him out were warranted.

Still, it was the biggest tour anybody had ever put on, at that point in time- only stadiums could top the indoor attendance records at some of these shows. In hindsight, though there were at least a couple of close calls, they were lucky not to experience the kind of thing that happened to The Who in Cincinatti two years later. Tampa being the obvious exception, but again even Peter Grant admitted that if they'd been in their right minds at the time they'd have caught the ticket mixup. I've said before, yeah, maybe their eyes were a little bit too big for their stomachs in '77 but some of those concerts are still the best anybody has ever put on. And ultimately that's what makes the 1977 tour special for me, at least...the best of the tour just captures everything I like about Led Zeppelin perfectly.

Holy shit dude. I just read this whole thing and it totally puts the 1977 tour in perspective for me. I know what you mean by playing for a couple of hours, two and a half hours and it's exhausting. My band plays just completely gonzo and I feel that our creativity becomes heightened.

I have really been getting into '77; my band has been playing a handful of tunes from the tour (we all love Zeppelin and predominately play it) such as "Achilles Last Stand," which we have pretty much finally gotten down and professionally recorded. I also love how they reintroduced the acoustic set and switched it up. I felt they pulled "Battle of evermore" quite well and my band is going to try it.

Yes, the tour had its downfalls and its ups but I think that as far as adventurous jams and songs go, it was the best. I think that if a band has the talent and ability to make songs longer and can jam for a good amount of time, they should do it. It doesn't sound the same every night which is the best part.

As far as band members go, I disagree. I would have to rate the band, 1 being the worst and 5 being top notch, the best; it would look like this:

Jimmy - 3-5. Depending on how fucked up Jimmy was (since he rarely slept and had a horrible diet IMO on that tour), he was really good or sloppy as fuck. He was hit and miss. Examples, 6/27/77. It is clearly a slower night. Jimmy clearly messes up in "Achilles Last Stand." The jams are slower, more mistakes made I feel. Compared to Badgeholders or Listen to This Eddie.

Bonzo - 3-5. Again, much like Jimmy he was very inconsistent and out of shape. He skipped his drum solo in San Diego 6/19/77.

Jonesy - 5. I think he did the best. He was never off, always had ideas to take a jam in a different direction. He also sang Sandy Denny's parts in "Battle of Evermore." His solo in "No Quarter" in Badgeholders is superb. He got a triple neck just to have the option of playing "Ten Years Gone" and the acoustic jams at his finger tips. He always kept Zeppelin flying high on nights that if they didn't have him, they would have crashed.

Robert - 4.5-5. Sometimes I feel his voice is a little off but touring does that to you. I don't have and specific exampled but any one he can bounce around on stage after breaking an ankle like it was nothing is very impressive. He really bounced back on that tour that compared to 1975. I love the '75 tour but some shows I listen to seem hard for Robert since he was sick and his voice wasn't at its best.

[badgeholder]

My problem is solved I had the swingin pig records version.All is well I found the complete show .When I was looking for that show I happened to see a show Called Tulsa symphony Ode To Joy Tulsa Oklahoma 70 Can anybody give me a review?

The Tulsa recording is just 'okay', but the performance is smokin'. Best Heartbreaker ever. 1970 tour totally rocks

[Nutrocker]

Incorrect E.L.P.'s 77 orchestra tour was larger and more ambitious than Zep's grandest attempt at touring excess. It was also a collossal financial failure almost bankrupting the band and forcing them to drop the full orchestra from the tour after a handful of shows.

What I was actually driving at was the financial end of things, you're right...sure, ELP damn near went broke but I bet up until Zeppelin had to pull the plug they were doing alright with the bucks. Look at the ticket sales...I'm not much into ELP but did they sell out six nights at Madison Square Garden? (maybe they did, I don't know). I know the CSNY tour in '74 was conceived as the biggest thing- but those shows were mainly outdoor stadium shows, and they didn't play anywhere near the dates Zeppelin did in '77. And, of course, after expenses, Graham Nash figured the four of them only made about $200000 or so each when it was all said and done.

...Mind ya, they're all pretty tame tours compared to the spectacles U2 or the Stones put on nowadays. And, if Led Zeppelin were around and playing these days I really couldn't see them going for all that stadium pizzazz. They were always about the music, first and foremost, even on bad nights.

[tom kid]

Holy shit dude. I just read this whole thing and it totally puts the 1977 tour in perspective for me. I know what you mean by playing for a couple of hours, two and a half hours and it's exhausting. My band plays just completely gonzo and I feel that our creativity becomes heightened.

I have really been getting into '77; my band has been playing a handful of tunes from the tour (we all love Zeppelin and predominately play it) such as "Achilles Last Stand," which we have pretty much finally gotten down and professionally recorded. I also love how they reintroduced the acoustic set and switched it up. I felt they pulled "Battle of evermore" quite well and my band is going to try it.

Yes, the tour had its downfalls and its ups but I think that as far as adventurous jams and songs go, it was the best. I think that if a band has the talent and ability to make songs longer and can jam for a good amount of time, they should do it. It doesn't sound the same every night which is the best part.

As far as band members go, I disagree. I would have to rate the band, 1 being the worst and 5 being top notch, the best; it would look like this:

Jimmy - 3-5. Depending on how fucked up Jimmy was (since he rarely slept and had a horrible diet IMO on that tour), he was really good or sloppy as fuck. He was hit and miss. Examples, 6/27/77. It is clearly a slower night. Jimmy clearly messes up in "Achilles Last Stand." The jams are slower, more mistakes made I feel. Compared to Badgeholders or Listen to This Eddie.

Bonzo - 3-5. Again, much like Jimmy he was very inconsistent and out of shape. He skipped his drum solo in San Diego 6/19/77.

Jonesy - 5. I think he did the best. He was never off, always had ideas to take a jam in a different direction. He also sang Sandy Denny's parts in "Battle of Evermore." His solo in "No Quarter" in Badgeholders is superb. He got a triple neck just to have the option of playing "Ten Years Gone" and the acoustic jams at his finger tips. He always kept Zeppelin flying high on nights that if they didn't have him, they would have crashed.

Robert - 4.5-5. Sometimes I feel his voice is a little off but touring does that to you. I don't have and specific exampled but any one he can bounce around on stage after breaking an ankle like it was nothing is very impressive. He really bounced back on that tour that compared to 1975. I love the '75 tour but some shows I listen to seem hard for Robert since he was sick and his voice wasn't at its best.

Bonzo wasn't inconsistent at all really, Jimmy was much more inconsistent and wasted than Bonzo was, although I imagine Bonzo would have had his fair share of certain substances during the tour. San Diego is really his only off night, apparently he had some sort of food poisoning, although much like the case of the 9/4 show in Chicago I find that hard to believe. The Kingdome show could have been much worse if Bonzo wasn't on top of his game, he held that one together imo.