Brad Hamilton Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 This week President Obama dropped a bit of a political bomb on the Arab / Israeli peace process suggesting that Israel needs to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders. Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded that "it will never happen'. Is President Obama asking for too much from Israel given their concerns about security? What do you think will happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Hi all, It won't. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGun Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Yes, he is. If israel will withdraw to 67 borders there will not pass much time until there will be no israel at all. we are already threatend by Hammas, Egypt (islamic brothers), hizballa, iran and syria. giving away our territory wil be a suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Yes, he is. If israel will withdraw to 67 borders there will not pass much time until there will be no israel at all. we are already threatend by Hammas, Egypt (islamic brothers), hizballa, iran and syria. giving away our territory wil be a suicide. It's unbelievable what you and your fellow citizens of Israel have had to deal with over the years. From suicide bombings, missles being launched at your country, terrorist organizations such as Hammas and the PLO (they're a terrorist organization in my book) and the threats from neighboring middle eastern countries who would like to conduct or at minimum lend their support for the complete destruction of Israel. Now, Obama throws a wrench into the whole situation that may make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Hi all, How about this: The Arab/Muslim agree that the state/democracy of Israel has a right to exist?(Nope,never happen) KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I agree Steve, great post. It would be almost suicidal for Israel to even consider it given the past history, and the current history of violence. I find it somewhat disapointing as well that President Obama should unilaterally decided to make this suggestion on behalf of the American people. All I see happening now is this causing a violent reaction by radical Palestinian groups because of Israel's firm stand to not submit to this reckless suggestion. I think Clinton made a similar error near the end of his term which ended up sparking more violence. Have faith that not all Americans agree with this idea my friend. Obviously we want to see Arabs and Israelis at peace, but that can't happen until the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist, and then demonstrate through no more acts of violence that they are willing to live in peace. From what I have seen, there has never been any ability to control Palestinian terrorism within the Palestinian areas. So why should Israel ever concede to give up that much territory when they have never received peace in return yet? Great post Brad! There are too many politics involved with this and I wish are government and those in the Middle East had the rationale that you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGun Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 How about that -a guy in Israel posted a reply. This forum never ceases to amaze me. The power of zeppelin is strong here too, my friend. t's unbelievable what you and your fellow citizens of Israel have had to deal with over the years. From suicide bombings, missles being launched at your country, terrorist organizations such as Hammas and the PLO (they're a terrorist organization in my book) and the threats from neighboring middle eastern countries who would like to conduct or at minimum lend their support for the complete destruction of Israel. Now, Obama throws a wrench into the whole situation that may make it worse. It is. But i must tell you this: palestinian ppl are suffring too from this situation. the voice of hammas or other terror organaztions is not the voice of the majority of palestinian ppl, or i hope it to be that way. what amazes me most is when a palestinian child is killed (with no intention too, our forces always aim at potential-risk targets,) the world makes israel the devil. when a whole family is being killed by a man that his intention was to kill innocent ppl with no militry-army targets nobody cares. Obama is certinly not helping to the situation, i knew it from the very beginning. moreover, i wish we had peace, there is nothing in the world i want more than that but it will never happen. i hate seeing innocent palestinians get kiiled or israeli ppl get killed as a result of fundamentalism and stupidity. Have faith that not all Americans agree with this idea my friend. Obviously we want to see Arabs and Israelis at peace, but that can't happen until the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist, and then demonstrate through no more acts of violence that they are willing to live in peace. From what I have seen, there has never been any ability to control Palestinian terrorism within the Palestinian areas. So why should Israel ever concede to give up that much territory when they have never received peace in return yet? I know that. and you are absolutly correct. lets make it clear, My israeli leaders is not a paragon of virtue, they have mistaken too and they arnt doing whatever they can to accomplish peace. but, and its a big BUT - no one can expect from israel to not be recognized. i want peace for peace not peace for lands. cause i know for sure, at the moment we give away our territory to those ppl our existans will be no more. long story short: Obama isnt helping us. our image in the world is bad as hell, and him making this stupid unreasonable offer makes us more diabolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Rider Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Yes, he is. If israel will withdraw to 67 borders there will not pass much time until there will be no israel at all. we are already threatend by Hammas, Egypt (islamic brothers), hizballa, iran and syria. giving away our territory wil be a suicide. Decide which ones among them (Hammas, Egypt (islamic brothers), hizballa, iran and syria) that are most agreeable, if any. Sometimes one emerges with whom you can agree. Otherwise you must take measures of self-defense and reasonable defense of all those around you who are at risk. Be as tolerant of your enemy as you can; it gives him less reason to hate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Hi all, >Be as tolerant of your enemy as you can; it gives him less reason to hate you. < Your numb. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Great post JimmyGun. It's amazing what kind of spin the media puts on the situation over in your land. Unfortunately, a lot of times they make Israel as the bad guy which is not true. Not everyone in the U.S. sees things the way our media and left wing do and points fingers at Israel and not Palestine and the other Middle Eastern countries. Just wish things could be resolved, but I don't think they ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGun Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Decide which ones among them (Hammas, Egypt (islamic brothers), hizballa, iran and syria) that are most agreeable, if any. Sometimes one emerges with whom you can agree. Otherwise you must take measures of self-defense and reasonable defense of all those around you who are at risk. Be as tolerant of your enemy as you can; it gives him less reason to hate you. Egypt, no doubt about that. we have a Peace treaty with them. although in certin times this peace treaty will have no validity. I forgot about jordan, we have a Peace treaty with jordan too, but i believe they are less deangerous to us, for now. All of israel south area is under a possible missle attack (for many years, somtimes now israel is under this kind of attack like that. our conter-attacks are very diffcult cause the damnd terrorists hide in schools and innocent ppl's homes). now, according to reports hammas have the ability to reach Tel-Aviv (central area of israel). out north we have Hizballa (Lebanon), they can lunch missels almost to entire israel central-north territory. north-east we have syria, Last week citizens of syria was tresspassing the bored cause of the nakbah, instend of protesting in the boreds of democracy. they tresspassed the bored, 130 ppl of them. then the world blames Israel for defending its rightfull borederlines. Generally speaking, i dont see anymore tolarent goverment than our goverment. America invaded Iraq and the world is speechless, Russia was bombing Georgia with no reason the world was still, speechless, but when Israel defends its civils it is a crime against humanity. When Israel have law-maker like haneen zoabi that is pro-terrorism against israel like in the gaza flotilla raid, when the flotilla tolled to stop for militery cheking and attacked our soliders that had only rubbr-bullet guns and this horrible haneen zoabi was participating in this attack agains her own-country soliders, that was thrown off bored. She was there, she, a law-maker in israel parlament was attacking the soliders that guard her home from a missle strike for so long time. than you have a real problem. I believe you all saw that, but for the ones who didnt: Sorry for the long post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I think President Obama is a fucking son of a bitch for even suggesting it! meh.....he said it cause he had to say it. I mean we've invaded the countries on both sides of Iran, have military bases all over the arab world, and swooped into Pakistan like they didnt matter to take out Bin Laden. Might as well throw a bone out there thats BS to pretend we're impartial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 meh.....he said it cause he had to say it. I mean we've invaded the countries on both sides of Iran, have military bases all over the arab world, and swooped into Pakistan like they didnt matter to take out Bin Laden. Might as well throw a bone out there thats BS to pretend we're impartial. Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Rider Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Egypt, no doubt about that. we have a Peace treaty with them. although in certin times this peace treaty will have no validity. I forgot about jordan, we have a Peace treaty with jordan too, but i believe they are less deangerous to us, for now. All of israel south area is under a possible missle attack (for many years, somtimes now israel is under this kind of attack like that. our conter-attacks are very diffcult cause the damnd terrorists hide in schools and innocent ppl's homes). now, according to reports hammas have the ability to reach Tel-Aviv (central area of israel). out north we have Hizballa (Lebanon), they can lunch missels almost to entire israel central-north territory. north-east we have syria, Last week citizens of syria was tresspassing the bored cause of the nakbah, instend of protesting in the boreds of democracy. then the world blames Israel for defending its rightfull borederlines. Generally speaking, i dont see anymore tolarent goverment than our goverment. America invaded Iraq and the world is speechless, Russia was bombing Georgia with no reason the world was still, speechless, but when Israel defends its civils it is a crime against humanity. When Israel have law-maker like haneen zoabi that is pro-terrorism against israel like in the gaza flotilla raid, when the flotilla tolled to stop for militery cheking and attacked our soliders that had only rubbr-bullet guns and this horrible haneen zoabi was participating in this attack agains her own-country soliders, that was thrown off bored. She was there, she, a law-maker in israel parlament was attacking the soliders that guard her home from a missle strike for so long time. than you have a real problem. Sorry for the long post Ah, yeah, it makes no sense. Send in Sgt. 1st Class Zach to establish order. Israel has survived much over the centuries. Destroy the enemy when you must, but reduce the chaos whenever possible. Treat everyone as well as you can under the circumstances. Many of them have loved ones who know a different side of them. Even Osama Bin Laden had a loving, young wife. Your best friend is the one who doesn't kill you, regardless of where he or she comes from. You do whatever keeps you in a state of grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Ah, yeah, it makes no sense. Send in Sgt. 1st Class Zach to establish order. Israel has survived much over the centuries. Destroy the enemy when you must, but reduce the chaos whenever possible. Treat everyone as well as you can under the circumstances. Many of them have loved ones who know a different side of them. Even Osama Bin Laden had a loving, young wife. Your best friend is the one who doesn't kill you, regardless of where he or she comes from. Comfortably numb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabe Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I think President Obama is a fucking son of a bitch for even suggesting it! One of the goals of radical Palestinian organizations (like the PLO) has been a return to pre-'67 lines specifically for the tactical advantages they'd have, as per Arafat and others. That's tactical advantages towards the ultimate objective - the annihilation of Israel. Whether or not Obama gets Israel to agree to this (and he almost certainly will not), it will be seen as support for the PLO's position. Surrendering land for peace will never bring peace to the region. If there was peace there would not have been the Six Day War in 1967 to take control of this land. What next, give Texas back to Mexico?! Excellent post, Mr. Jones. Hard for me to fathom a POTUS would suggest this. What a total crock of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Your best friend is the one who doesn't kill you, regardless of where he or she comes from. You do whatever keeps you in a state of grace. Are you high or just insipid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 "Surrendering land for peace will never bring peace to the region. If there was peace there would not have been the Six Day War in 1967 to take control of this land." Taking more land won't bring peace either, but just make things worse Concluding from responses that I did read here both parties are equally frightened that one will run the other underfoot. The thing you have in common that most people there just want the bloodshed to end, caused by militant imbeciles on BOTH sides What the fuck are you people there doing to one another, and how long are you wanna continue it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandu Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 If Obama wants to have peace in exchange for land he will have to suggest going back to the pre 1948 borders - because that is all that will satisfy the current palestinian leadership. Whether they do it through land clawbacks or a right of return, they are seemingly committed to making Israel disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Rider Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 If Obama wants to have peace in exchange for land he will have to suggest going back to the pre 1948 borders - because that is all that will satisfy the current palestinian leadership. Whether they do it through land clawbacks or a right of return, they are seemingly committed to making Israel disappear. And how many centuries has Israel continued? True, there was a carrying away to Babylon, but a lot of people in Israel are very nice. There is no need to over-react to the transgressions of a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandu Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 And how many centuries has Israel continued? True, there was a carrying away to Babylon, but a lot of people in Israel are very nice. There is no need to over-react to the transgressions of a few. I am not sure I understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Rider Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I am not sure I understand your point. They haven't destroyed Israel yet in all of these centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walesdad Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Israel will never surrender land it currently possesses,besides if it did it would make no difference.Their enemies want to destroy them,full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Rider Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Israel will never surrender land it currently possesses,besides if it did it would make no difference.Their enemies want to destroy them,full stop. Good point! So it's all about better relationships with the neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandu Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 They haven't destroyed Israel yet in all of these centuries. Israel has only been around for about 63 years and has been attacked relentlessly by it's enemies. If you meant to say they haven't destroyed the Jews in all of these centuries, I fear you are not setting the bar high enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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