Electrophile Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Alright, I am sorry that you think that you do not need salvation. Everyone does...I guess salvation wasn't stressed as much in your family as it is in mine. You will see soon that your life isn't as happy as you wish it could be. Everyone doesn't "need" salvation. Those that want it should seek it. It shouldn't be thrust upon anyone, much the same as the opposite shouldn't be thrust upon anyone either. Is my life perfect? No, because no one's life is perfect. Is my life not perfect because I don't believe in God? No. However, I am happy, I am healthy, I have friends and family who love me, I have money in the bank....my life is better than some. I'm grateful for what I have. I don't believe that being religious will suddenly change my quality of life, or make me more happy than I am now. So I don't think it's fair for you to assume it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Actually, salvation is for the people who aren't perfect. Whether you think you need it or not, you always do. See, if you don't believe in life after death, than this doesn't matter to you. If you believe it or not it still applies to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 By the way, I'd really like to apologize for this thread getting jacked so far away from where it should be. Interesting debates and conversations were had, but still. No, it's not the physical I am talking about it is the spiritual. Your body may be peaceful but your spirit will not. Spirits/souls/essence....that really isn't tied to religion. I believe my spirit will be at peace when my friends and family are at peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Unfortunately, this is what Christmas has become or at least it's nearly all we see in the media as the shopping days begin as Christmas day approaches. My family still gathers on Christmas day but it really doesn't have anything to do with celebrating the birth of Christ. It's about just getting together with each other to exchange gifts and have a big meal. In a lot of ways I prefer Thanksgiving as it isn't nearly as commercialized and since there's no exchanging of gifts, people don't tend to get their feelings hurt. It's more about family and just being together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Spirits/souls/essence....that really isn't tied to religion. I believe my spirit will be at peace when my friends and family are at peace. It is, religion is not just a way you live your life, it is much more than that (I don't have to be telling you) it has everything to do with your soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 What is that picture of?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I wonder if Christians realize just how condescending they are being when someone says that they don't believe in God and they say, "I will pray for you"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) What is that picture of?! A police officer subduing a shopper at a Walmart in Alabama last year on Black Friday after the officer shot him with a stun gun. FLORENCE, Ala. (AP) - Authorities say a shopper was subdued with a stun gun at an Alabama Walmart store as shoppers gathered for Black Friday sales. WAFF-TV reports police said they used a stun gun twice to gain control of 22-year-old Christopher Blake Pyron before arresting him at a Walmart in Florence. A phone listing for Pyron could not be located Friday by The Associated Press. Authorities said he is charged with public intoxication, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. Police said they made the arrest around 11 p.m. Thursday, about an hour after the Walmart opened its doors for late-night and early-morning shopping. Edited August 1, 2012 by Jahfin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe (Liverpool) Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Something I never say, when people have serious problems or illness I will say my thoughts are with you, as I'm a non believer and I do not pray. But I do mean it when I say it, I don't like people suffering unnecassarily. (Apart from paedophiles, murderers etc)......In response to #160 Edited August 1, 2012 by joe (Liverpool) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I wonder if Christians realize just how condescending they are being when someone says that they don't believe in God and they say, "I will pray for you"? Imagine how they'd feel if someone who didn't believe in God told them they should change their mind. That's about how it feels to be on the receiving end of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betteremily Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Imagine how they'd feel if someone who didn't believe in God told them they should change their mind. That's about how it feels to be on the receiving end of that. I know how it feels to believe in God and reject religion. And I also know how it feels to be an athiest for a period of my life. It doesn't really matter because the same thing religious people claim to love about God are the same things athiests claim to love about life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I do believe in God but what you are saying is that your religion doesn't apply to other people. See, if you really believe in Catholicism/Christianity than you would believe that it also applies to other people as well, because that is what it teaches us. Where the hell did I ever say my religion does not apply to other people? You are spinning words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe (Liverpool) Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Being brought up a Roman Catholic taught me many things; On a Monday morning, first thing we would be asked if we attended mass on the Sunday, if we said no we were given the cane if we said yes we were quizzed unmercilessly on the contents of the mass, originally they would just ask what colour the preists robes were, so I would just peek in through the back door and on Monday morning I would duly tell them. Unfortunately they got wise to this, they then started asking questions on the text, when myself (and many others) were unable to tell them. Then they decided to punish us twice, they caned us and then they stopped us from going swimming with the rest of the class, or prevented us from doing our sports lessons. This was over religion for fucks sake....... and who were "they", Nuns, and how old were we? between 5 and 11 years old. We had to learn the catechism, and if we got a question wrong we were caned. The Catechism started off with "Who made you?, to which the answer was god made me, then the second one was "Why did god make you?....and it went on. I was actually given the cane one day just as I was about to leave the school and go to Grammar School (Non denomination), because I had the audacity to ask a priest (they used to take lessons every Friday afternoon), how this "god" was born on the same day every year i.e. 25 December, yet he died on a different day EVERY year, he went on to spout some bullshit about times of that period, but I wasn't having any of it so I was caned for my trouble. So when bible bashers knock at my door I ask them the same question, if they try and tell me the same as the priest I ask them if they were so specific about the date of his alleged birth why can't they do the same about his death. Also if jehovas witnesse come calling I show them my blood donors card, and ask them why? if their religion is so good and true, do they have to canvass door to door. For me you can stick your religion and when yopu die you are either burnt to a crisp or are buried six foot underground and eaten by the worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 About this idea of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, there is also evidence of cannibalism and rape in animals but that doesn't mean it's right for humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe (Liverpool) Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 This is very true. There is also a saying......Please yourself dogs do!!!!!, And I am not in favour of cannibalism or rape, nor am I a Homosexual, but I have nothing against it, some of my friends are Gay(male and female) that doesn't make them any less of a friend. If that is your argument then how are animals in the wild going to survive, it is called the food chain and it must be respected. Now cannabalism amongst humans is taught to be morally wrong. We don't know the extremes some people have to endure before they would eat parts of a human body, aeroplane crashes in the wilderness etc. So until it happens to us we cannot judge. Apart from say a muderer eating the corpse of the person they have just killed. It all depends on education. Live and let live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 About this idea of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, there is also evidence of cannibalism and rape in animals but that doesn't mean it's right for humans. Human beings possess the ability to understand that cannibalism and rape are wrong, animals do not. That's why we have decided through our laws that cannibalism and rape are illegal, and should be punished. Animals are not subject to laws that man has created to govern themselves. They also don't possess the same brains that humans do. While we share some traits with the animal kingdom, we don't share them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe (Liverpool) Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Human beings possess the ability to understand that cannibalism and rape are wrong, animals do not. That's why we have decided through our laws that cannibalism and rape are illegal, and should be punished. Animals are not subject to laws that man has created to govern themselves. They also don't possess the same brains that humans do. While we share some traits with the animal kingdom, we don't share them all. We cannot speculate as to what makes one human eat another humans flesh, until we are pushed to the extremes of endurance who can say? If you were in the middle of nowhere with a group of people some of whom had died. What do you do die or eat? Until it happens to us we cannot comprehend, regardless of peer pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Human beings possess the ability to understand that cannibalism and rape are wrong, animals do not. That's why we have decided through our laws that cannibalism and rape are illegal, and should be punished. Animals are not subject to laws that man has created to govern themselves. They also don't possess the same brains that humans do. While we share some traits with the animal kingdom, we don't share them all. Some people feel the same way about homosexuality. Homosexual behavior in animals does not justify homosexual humans IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 Human beings possess the ability to understand that cannibalism and rape are wrong, animals do not. That's why we have decided through our laws that cannibalism and rape are illegal, and should be punished. Animals are not subject to laws that man has created to govern themselves. They also don't possess the same brains that humans do. While we share some traits with the animal kingdom, we don't share them all. In fairness then can it not be said that animals also do not understand that homosexuality is wrong? I don't see how you can remove the fact that animals eat and rape each other and at the same time uphold the argument that animals engaging in same sex relations shows that it is natural and therefor okay for humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Where the hell did I ever say my religion does not apply to other people? You are spinning words. That is what I thought you meant, sorry for the misunderstanding. Thank you for correcting me. (: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 People are in fact, born gay. People are not born gay, they are born with a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 People are not born gay, they are born with a choice. Science says you're wrong, and if my options are believing what religion says or believing what science says, I'm going with science because science doesn't rely on fear-mongering and superstition. I didn't choose to be heterosexual. I didn't wake up one morning and say, "Hmm, I think I like guys instead of girls. Other girls are yucky!" That didn't happen. It didn't happen because sexual orientation is not like a light switch you can flip on and off, depending on your mood. That's not how it works. Repeating yourself over and over again isn't going to change conclusions that the scientific community have come to. It just isn't. Especially not when said conclusions rely on genetics and chromosomal studies, neither of which were even remotely conceived of in the Bronze Age when the Bible was written. That's the last I'm even discussing this issue with you, because continuing this fruitless endeavor would be a pointless waste of everyone's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Science says you're wrong, and if my options are believing what religion says or believing what science says, I'm going with science because science doesn't rely on fear-mongering and superstition. I didn't choose to be heterosexual. I didn't wake up one morning and say, "Hmm, I think I like guys instead of girls. Other girls are yucky!" That didn't happen. It didn't happen because sexual orientation is not like a light switch you can flip on and off, depending on your mood. That's not how it works. Repeating yourself over and over again isn't going to change conclusions that the scientific community have come to. It just isn't. Especially not when said conclusions rely on genetics and chromosomal studies, neither of which were even remotely conceived of in the Bronze Age when the Bible was written. That's the last I'm even discussing this issue with you, because continuing this fruitless endeavor would be a pointless waste of everyone's time. Science doesn't prove anything. There are people out there that thought they were born gay but have changed. That doesn't sound to me like it was hard-wired into their DNA. There is nothing to prove that homosexuality is hard-wired into DNA because you can not test it. You can't just grab some person's DNA and say "This person is gay because I this section here says they are." Nothing so far can prove people are born gay. And if we are following logic here I believe you are the one that is supposed to prove to me that people are born gay. But, because you "don't want to" I guess this will also be my last response to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandu Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I think the animal kingdom comparison is both silly and unnecessary as is the debate about whether or not people are "born that way". Both issues are beside the point. The simple fact is that in our society is based upon the principle that by and large consenting adults should be allowed to engage in whatever activities they choose so long as those activities do not impinge upon the rights and enjoyment of others. And that everyone should also be given equal protection and recognition under the law and not discriminated against. Whether homosexuality is natural or not and whether people are born a certain way is really of no moment. Some people think gambling is immoral, or drinking, or sex out of wedlock. We do not discriminate against people who do those things and we shouldn't. If you believe homosexuality is a sin and immoral that is your right, but you don't have the right to discriminate against people who don't share your views, any more than they have the right to discriminate against you for your religious beliefs. I find it interesting that people who are usually so "pro constitution" tend to forget its basic principles on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 If I say I don't want to debate the issue anymore, that means don't continue the debate. It doesn't mean to continue to engage me in the debate. Learn to walk away. I think the animal kingdom comparison is both silly and unnecessary as is the debate about whether or not people are "born that way". Both issues are beside the point. The simple fact is that in our society is based upon the principle that by and large consenting adults should be allowed to engage in whatever activities they choose so long as those activities do not impinge upon the rights and enjoyment of others. And that everyone should also be given equal protection and recognition under the law and not discriminated against. Whether homosexuality is natural or not and whether people are born a certain way is really of no moment. Some people think gambling is immoral, or drinking, or sex out of wedlock. We do not discriminate against people who do those things and we shouldn't. If you believe homosexuality is a sin and immoral that is your right, but you don't have the right to discriminate against people who don't share your views, any more than they have the right to discriminate against you for your religious beliefs. I find it interesting that people who are usually so "pro constitution" tend to forget its basic principles on this issue. When they have the Bible backing them up, they think their views justify nearly anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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