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LedZeppfan77

Facebook and issues that come with it

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14 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

As long as it's not based on discrimination, your employer should be able to make whatever decision suits them. Kindergarten teachers can't also work a strip club on the weekend. Jesus, does that really need clarifying?

Edit..

Edited by JTM

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14 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

You obviously don't understand how the Constitution or the law works, my friend.

Oh, please. 

3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Kindergarten teachers can't also work a strip club on the weekend. Jesus, does that really need clarifying?

If there is a moral turpitude clause in their contract with the school that would likely be upheld.

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2 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Oh, please

Oh please is right. The fact that you brought up the first amendment in that context shows you don't have a clue what it actually means. I'll give you a hint; You can't be imprisoned for criticizing the government. However, it does not protect you from the repercussions of acting like an ignorant asshole.

So yeah, of course you can "say whatever you wish", but good luck keeping your job. 

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20 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

No, that's not true. How you act outside of work should affect how your employer treats you. Even if you're not on the clock, you are still a representation of your place of employment. This has been the case since..forever. It's called code of conduct. A kindergarten teacher who runs a cam show on the weekend shouldn't be a kindergarten teacher. And if they're dumb enough to post an advertisement of their show on social media then they deserve to lose their job. 

One thing you have to realize about social media; it's you choosing to put your personal life on display. It's not any type of privacy invasion for other people to look at it (even an employer). Personal responsibility is a real thing. Don't blame others for your stupid actions.

Sorry, I could not disagree more as I did not know slavery was still a thing. Your employer does not own you and as long as you do not bring attention to your place of business in a negative manner, it is not their business. Also, I noticed how you completely ignored the validity of employers running credit checks to ensure the employee they select is also financially on the hook as well. You believe that should be allowed? Again, I know two HR directors and the companies they work for will not hire any employee who is debt free unless that person brings something to the table which no other person can. After all, heaven forbid a human being be able to tell their boss and company, no thank you, that is not in my job description, and walk.

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1 hour ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Your employer does not own you 

No, your employer employs you. And it's their right to tell you to fuck off if they suspect you're making them look bad by association.

 

1 hour ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

I noticed how you completely ignored the validity of employers running credit checks to ensure the employee they select is also financially on the hook as well

I don't know enough about that to comment.

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6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Oh please is right. The fact that you brought up the first amendment in that context shows you don't have a clue what it actually means. I'll give you a hint; You can't be imprisoned for criticizing the government. However, it does not protect you from the repercussions of acting like an ignorant asshole.

So yeah, of course you can "say whatever you wish", but good luck keeping your job. 

You still don't get it.

3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I don't know enough about that to comment.

That's never stopped you before.

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1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

You still don't get it.

That's never stopped you before.

Ok, what don't I get? You called my remark about not deserving a job based on saying and doing questionable things "fascist" and said the first amendment means you can say whatever you want. First, law is law. A private institution can and most likely will fire you for doing something in your private life that could make them look bad. In the context of social media, what you air out in public can be used against you. The Constitution DOES NOT protect you from that. That's not fascism, that's law. 

Edit: here it is below. Nothing about that is a "fascist social justice" statement. It's a basic, common sense fact. Your inability to understand context never ceases to blow my mind. If your employer sees you making racist remarks on a social platform, they have the right, BY LAW, to terminate your employment. The Constitution can't do a damned thing for ya.

 

Make racist or sexist remarks on a social network? Then you don't deserve a job.

…but fascist social justice declarations such as that one are acceptable? The First Amendment of the United States Constitution establishes an American citizen's rights to say whatever they wish!

Edited by gibsonfan159

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56 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

If your employer sees you making racist remarks on a social platform, they have the right, BY LAW, to terminate your employment. 

One man's racist statement is another man's truth is another man's micro-aggression so by which law? 

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8 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

One man's racist statement is another man's truth is another man's micro-aggression so by which law? 

Semantics. And the law I'm referring to is a private employer's freedom to hire and fire on their own discretion. But yeah, I see what you're saying. If I did a background check and saw that someone believed in magical sky people I'd think twice about hiring them due to their mental state. Though some just call that being religious.

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1 hour ago, cryingbluerain said:

Because personal opinions and ideas mean so much more than proficiency, skills, and abilities..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo

You're missing the point. Those personal opinions and ideas can (and often do) dictate a person's motives and moral character on the job.

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11 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Semantics. And the law I'm referring to is a private employer's freedom to hire and fire on their own discretion. But yeah, I see what you're saying. If I did a background check and saw that someone believed in magical sky people I'd think twice about hiring them due to their mental state. Though some just call that being religious.

Yep, that's your prerogative as an employer. Do bear in mind you're guilty of unlawful hiring practices.

3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

You're missing the point. Those personal opinions and ideas can (and often do) dictate a person's motives and moral character on the job.

If you can accurately deduce any person's "motives" and "moral character" in any situation, let alone on the job, you're a better man than I. 

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On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 2:56 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

No, your employer employs you. And it's their right to tell you to fuck off if they suspect you're making them look bad by association.

 

I don't know enough about that to comment.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, to a point, with what you say. What I do not agree with is the extent and degree of power you give employers over their employee. You see, by your own stated definition, it is up to the employer to determine what is detrimental to their business which is quite nebulous. The litmus test for me is when someone does something off of company time which directly brings negative attention to your employer. In such a case I agree, the employer has the right to terminate. However, if the person is say, as you mentioned, hosting a web based sex cam for some extra cash on the side but there is no media or social media exposure which either links or names the employer, or, neither of those outlets report such activity to the general public then it is none of your employers business. As Steve pointed out doing such would be a violation of the law in several states and possibly a violation of federal law depending on circumstance.

As a business owner my Pepsi test is quite simple: as long as my employee does not deposit a metaphorical steaming pile of crap at my doorstep, what he / she does while not working is none of my business.

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On 1/24/2019 at 7:14 PM, SteveAJones said:

If you can accurately deduce any person's "motives" and "moral character" in any situation, let alone on the job, you're a better man than I. 

But it doesn't have to be "accurate". If a person who serves the public (medical, police, teacher) gets on Facebook and says "Man, I really despise black people", that puts their moral integrity into question and that's enough. Even though it's quite possible that they treat black people with just as much integrity on their job as anyone else, it still arouses enough suspicion to not take a chance with the person. So basically, if you have an opinion that others might find negative, keep it to yourself. Don't air it out in public and expect it to go without consequence. Common sense.

 

On 1/25/2019 at 5:47 PM, PeaceFrogYum said:

if the person is say, as you mentioned, hosting a web based sex cam for some extra cash on the side but there is no media or social media exposure which either links or names the employer, or, neither of those outlets report such activity to the general public then it is none of your employers business. As Steve pointed out doing such would be a violation of the law in several states and possibly a violation of federal law depending on circumstance.

Your employer's business is what they want it to be and no, it's not necessarily against the law for them to fire you for anything outside of discrimination. That's ultimately up to the courts if you want to challenge it, but most employers set their rules of conduct when you get hired and can terminate you on their own terms. If you don't like it then you can just go full time on your webcam. 

Personal responsibility isn't hard to figure out- Do stupid shit and suffer the consequences. No part of the Constitution can protect you from that, but if you want to ratify it so that it's acceptable that kindergarten teachers can be prostitutes on the weekend, then get to the polls and vote lol. Or move to Russia, that sounds like their moral standpoint.

Edited by gibsonfan159

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15 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

But it doesn't have to be "accurate". If a person who serves the public (medical, police, teacher) gets on Facebook and says "Man, I really despise black people", that puts their moral integrity into question and that's enough. Even though it's quite possible that they treat black people with just as much integrity on their job as anyone else, it still arouses enough suspicion to not take a chance with the person. So basically, if you have an opinion that others might find negative, keep it to yourself. Don't air it out in public and expect it to go without consequence. Common sense.

 

Your employer's business is what they want it to be and no, it's not necessarily against the law for them to fire you for anything outside of discrimination. That's ultimately up to the courts if you want to challenge it, but most employers set their rules of conduct when you get hired and can terminate you on their own terms. If you don't like it then you can just go full time on your webcam. 

Personal responsibility isn't hard to figure out- Do stupid shit and suffer the consequences. No part of the Constitution can protect you from that, but if you want to ratify it so that it's acceptable that kindergarten teachers can be prostitutes on the weekend, then get to the polls and vote lol. Or move to Russia, that sounds like their moral standpoint.

By that logic if your employer sees a post on your Facebook which is negative against say Trump or Pelosi, and he / she happens to take offense and fire you, to damn bad?

Give me a break!

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9 minutes ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

By that logic if your employer sees a post on your Facebook which is negative against say Trump or Pelosi, and he / she happens to take offense and fire you, to damn bad?

Give me a break!

That's not the logic at all and I'm sorry you can't comprehend. There's no hope for you so just make of it what you will. I'm merely stating the reality of the situation. It's up to you to accept it or live in willful ignorance.

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1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

But it doesn't have to be "accurate". If a person who serves the public (medical, police, teacher) gets on Facebook and says "Man, I really despise black people", that puts their moral integrity into question and that's enough. Even though it's quite possible that they treat black people with just as much integrity on their job as anyone else, it still arouses enough suspicion to not take a chance with the person. So basically, if you have an opinion that others might find negative, keep it to yourself. Don't air it out in public and expect it to go without consequence. Common sense.

Your employer's business is what they want it to be and no, it's not necessarily against the law for them to fire you for anything outside of discrimination. That's ultimately up to the courts if you want to challenge it, but most employers set their rules of conduct when you get hired and can terminate you on their own terms. If you don't like it then you can just go full time on your webcam. 

Personal responsibility isn't hard to figure out- Do stupid shit and suffer the consequences. No part of the Constitution can protect you from that, but if you want to ratify it so that it's acceptable that kindergarten teachers can be prostitutes on the weekend, then get to the polls and vote lol. Or move to Russia, that sounds like their moral standpoint.

The irony here is your support for your own logic results in your own logic being used against you on a daily basis. For example, by virtue of being white you are a racist and (blah blah blah). Hey, what matters here is your moral integrity is brought into question and that's enough. It's doesn't have to be accurate. That's what you said.

Anyway, it's no surprise to see you completely support censorship, prosecution and punishment of "thought crime". 

 

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5 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

The irony here is your support for your own logic results in your own logic being used against you on a daily basis. For example, by virtue of being white you are a racist and (blah blah blah). Hey, what matters here is your moral integrity is brought into question and that's enough. It's doesn't have to be accurate. That's what you said.

Anyway, it's no surprise to see you completely support censorship, prosecution and punishment of "thought crime". 

 

The master at sidestepping putting his prowess on display, dragging any discussion out so thinly that it becomes unrecognizable and beyond effort to refute. The last ditch effort of card table flipping is justifying why the table needed to be flipped. 

Bottom line- Do stupid shit, suffer the consequences. If you think making blatant racist comments on a social platform can't/shouldn't warrant action from an employer, then you must be working at the KKK home office. Or on a different fucking planet. Everyone else says you're wrong. The last word is yours, for I can't put the facts of common sense and social repercussion into more elementary terms.

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2 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

The master at sidestepping putting his prowess on display, dragging any discussion out so thinly that it becomes unrecognizable and beyond effort to refute. The last ditch effort of card table flipping is justifying why the table needed to be flipped. 

Bottom line- Do stupid shit, suffer the consequences. If you think making blatant racist comments on a social platform can't/shouldn't warrant action from an employer, then you must be working at the KKK home office. Or on a different fucking planet. Everyone else says you're wrong. The last word is yours, for I can't put the facts of common sense and social repercussion into more elementary terms.

I've merely taken what YOU have said and applied it. Additionally, it is only now that you are adding qualifiers to what you said. For example, that it's "blatant racist comments" as opposed to unpopular opinions. Regardless, I stand by the essential truth of what I have said and that is people have the right to express their views & opinions in a free society without fear of employer retaliation. Whether that right is respected or not is a separate issue.   

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3 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

People have the right to express their views & opinions in a free society without fear of employer retaliation. Whether that right is respected or not is a separate issue.   

This idea is similar to my companies policy as a part of employee behaviours. I'll offer this real life example - I am free to attend protests of ANY kind (for or against "white power" or anything contentious - either side) as long as I don't wear my company polo shirt, or in any way associate my activity or view with my company. Same with liking a controversial post or joining a controversial group on social media. As long as the employee does NOT associate themselves with the company. It is none of their (the company) business and they don't want it to be their business. This isn't without qualification. As with practically everything, there are limitations. Like gibsonfan159 says, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

My Co. actively refines defining and separating the employee from the private citizen as best they can and the entire policy seems reasonable to me. It has to be as it is quite a large company and I'm sure they just don't want the hassle - or room for employees who are a bit shit to exploit anything through lack of policy.

I think things are much different with smaller employees like a coffee shop or whatever. There, the employee/employer is a completely different dynamic. Since you could have a asshole employee or an asshole employer, and it's a very small/close working environment where personalities can/will clash, I imagine it is very difficult indeed to legislate to protect everyone against assholes.

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 11:07 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

That's not the logic at all and I'm sorry you can't comprehend. There's no hope for you so just make of it what you will. I'm merely stating the reality of the situation. It's up to you to accept it or live in willful ignorance.

It's obvious you and I do not see eye to eye on this issue and there is nothing wrong with that, however, you don't need to be rude. Not everyone is going to agree with your opinion, or even my opinion, no need to get nasty. The name is Peace...Mr. Frog if yo nasty :D

That being said I still love your insight on the Nitpicking Page thread, you make some interesting observations. Keep up the good work.

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2 hours ago, zepscoda said:

Typical of Facebook's standard operating procedures -- it doesn't matter if what we're doing is ethical, it only matters that it's technically legal.

I fucking hate Facebook. It's arguably become the biggest waste of time in the world today. 

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11 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Typical of Facebook's standard operating procedures -- it doesn't matter if what we're doing is ethical, it only matters that it's technically legal.

I fucking hate Facebook. It's arguably become the biggest waste of time in the world today. 

+1 

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On 3/13/2019 at 9:37 PM, SteveAJones said:

Typical of Facebook's standard operating procedures -- it doesn't matter if what we're doing is ethical, it only matters that it's technically legal.

I fucking hate Facebook. It's arguably become the biggest waste of time in the world today. 

I agree... if it weren't a such a good platform  to keep in touch with friends and family spread out across the country, I would drop it. I hate to censor stuff, but the political trash on my timeline from both sides of the fence makes me sick. I just try to ignore, but some of the obvious bullshit on both sides my friends get caught up in would be funny if it weren't so sad.

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