Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[SteveAJones]

John Bonham was very much alive in 1970...

My original post has been edited with full details provided.

[SteveAJones]

No, always just passing through. Robert, Jimmy and Lynn Collins spent a day together

near Mill Valley, presumably touring what is known today at the Muir Woods National Monument. This most probably occured in April '69 during their four-day stint in San Francisco.

Sorry to quote myself, but I just wanted to post this photo from that Mill Valley trip:

[jabe]

Ten Years Gone

In a 1975 Rolling Stone interview, Robert Plant said the lyrics came from a relationship he’d been in years before joining Zeppelin. His girlfriend, whom he really loved, told him he had to choose between a life with her or “his fans.”

As he told Cameron Crowe, “She’s quite content these days, I imagine. . . . We wouldn’t have anything to say anymore. . . .ten years gone, I’m afraid.”

Ah,the reason I posed my query to you in post 1766 in your thread.When Led Zeppelin played Birmingham in 1977,Plant ,best as I recall,introduced this as song about a love who "got away."At the end of Ten Years Gone,he says something to the effect,"And when you see this love..."Plant goes into a two or three sentence summation.I had a copy of this concert from the source back in '78 or '79.I have no clue what the hell I did with it.I guess other Birmingham boots would substantiate as much.

Still, the mystery to me,do we know who the subject of the song is?Where is she now?And ,does this invade the privacy of an individual,who wishes to remain anonymous ,in which case,it's none of our damn business?

Lastly,should we care who she is?By my own admission,I'm pretty damn curious.

[RiotHouse]

Ah,the reason I posed my query to you in post 1766 in your thread.When Led Zeppelin played Birmingham in 1977,Plant ,best as I recall,introduced this as song about a love who "got away."At the end of Ten Years Gone,he says something to the effect,"And when you see this love..."Plant goes into a two or three sentence summation.I had a copy of this concert from the source back in '78 or '79.I have no clue what the hell I did with it.I guess other Birmingham boots would substantiate as much.

Still, the mystery to me,do we know who the subject of the song is?Where is she now?And ,does this invade the privacy of an individual,who wishes to remain anonymous ,in which case,it's none of our damn business?

Lastly,should we care who she is?By my own admission,I'm pretty damn curious.

http://familyzepp.piczo.com/?g=33936571&cr=3

[SteveAJones]

Still, the mystery to me, do we know who the subject of the song is? Where is she now? And,does this invade the privacy of an individual who wishes to remain anonymous, in which case it's none of our damn business? Lastly, should we care who she is? By my own admission I'm pretty damn curious.

I personally do not know her name, nor am I particularly curious to find out, because

by witholding her actual identity Robert allows her to symbolically become every man's "one that got away". The song would not be nearly as poignant if we all knew who the gal in question really was and her precise whereabouts now. IMHO, she needs to be further away than a google search...she needs to remain firmly cloaked in the mists of time.

[SteveAJones]

http://familyzepp.piczo.com/?g=33936571&cr=3

I doubt very much it was Shirley Wilson, for my own reasons, but views may vary.

[zepyep]

Hi Steve,all,

I doubt very much it was Shirley Wilson, for my own reasons, but views may vary.

No matter! Merry Christmas my friend!

KB(and to all a good night!)

Edited December 23, 2008 by zepyep

[RiotHouse]

Jackie DeShannon, the inspiration behind "Tangerine"...

In 1964, Jackie's career got a big kick when she was chosen to be the supporting act for the Beatles' first U.S. tour. Spawning a close, but short, relationship between herself and John Lennon on the road (she even went as far as to call him her 'soulmate'). After ending the tour, nationally known, Jackie was then asked out by the King of Rock and Roll, Elvis (to which she turned down out of disinterest of his 'entourage'). A year later in 1965, while in England, she met a then unknown, though prolific, guitarist named Jimmy Page, and sparked a new partnership (professionally and personally). Beginning with creating the song Come Stay with Me for Marianne Faithfull, the two would be together for the rest of the year (and even tour together in America). When Jackie decided to leave the country to be with her label's executive chief Bud Dain, Jimmy (now a Yardbird) began creating a melody out of longing for her. The melody would turn into the song Tangerine for his band Led Zeppelin's third album a decade later.

http://community.livejournal.com/vintagegroupies/80933.html

[Fortuna]

It was John Bonham (only) who joined Skid Row (Noel Bridgeman(drums), Brush Shiels(bass/vocals), Gary Moore(guitar/vocals)) for the last two songs of their Whiskey a Go Go gig in Los Angeles on August 5, 1970 (date unconfirmed).

A 74 minute audience recording exists, and it contains: Slow Down, Benedict's Cherry Wine, Mr De-Luxe, Ramblin' On My Mind, Goin' Up The Country, Mad Dog Woman, Girl Called Winter, Honky Tonk Woman, Whole Lotta Love/Got My Mojo Working*, Slow Down* (reprise))

Royal Albert Hall (Paul Rodgers concert with support from Deborah Bonham)

Left to Right: Roger Fisher; Deborah Bonham (Bonzo's beautiful younger sister); Gary Moore, Kurtis Dengler (Paul Rodgers' guitarist); Lynn Sorensen; Howard Leese; Ryan Hoyle (Paul Rodgers' drummer).

Thank you for the information and photo Steve.

[jabe]

I personally do not know her name, nor am I particularly curious to find out, because

by witholding her actual identity Robert allows her to symbolically become every man's "one that got away". The song would not be nearly as poignant if we all knew who the gal in question really was and her precise whereabouts now. IMHO, she needs to be further away than a google search...she needs to remain firmly cloaked in the mists of time.

I've had a long held belief that the song is about a girlfriend of Plant's when he was 16 or 17.The kind that smacks you silly when you're coming of age.

No matter.You swayed my opinion and said it all too well,"she needs to remain firmly cloaked in the mists of time."

Let this one remain a mystery.

[bonzo1026]

My original post has been edited with full details provided.

In your defense I thought the same thing when I read the story. I had no idea there was a Skid Row prior to the one I believe we were thinking of.

Great work though!

[Fortuna]

In your defense I thought the same thing when I read the story. I had no idea there was a Skid Row prior to the one I believe we were thinking of.

Great work though!

And I had no idea there was another band called Skid Row until I read yesterday that Gary Moore had sold the name. Thanks again for researching the information for me Steve.

I still like the story though!

[SteveAJones]

I've had a long held belief that the song is about a girlfriend of Plant's when he was 16 or 17.The kind that smacks you silly when you're coming of age. No matter.You swayed my opinion and said it all too well,"she needs to remain firmly cloaked in the mists of time." Let this one remain a mystery.

He'd met the Wilson sisters in late '66 at the age of 18, so whomever she was he'd known before then (assuming it wasn't one of them)...

[SteveAJones]

In your defense I thought the same thing when I read the story. I had no idea there was a Skid Row prior to the one I believe we were thinking of.

Great work though!

Thanks. Yeah, I posted a knee jerk response thinking the original poster must have meant the Skid Row lineup featuring Sebastian Bach...who worked with Jason Bonham a few years ago in Las Vegas (ten to fourteen days of filming for VH1 reality show 'Super Group' at a mansion...Jason, Sebastian Bach, Scott Ian, Evan Seinfeld of Biohazard and Ted Nugent)...and Jason toured with Vinne Moore in UFO. Then I went

back and thought to myself, hang on a minute, there may be something to this. Glad

to be of some help.

[SteveAJones]

And I had no idea there was another band called Skid Row until I read yesterday that Gary Moore had sold the name. Thanks again for researching the information for me Steve. I still like the story though!

I'm intrigued by the apparent date of the event: August 5, 1970. Led Zeppelin had cancelled a series of concerts during this time to allow JPJ to remain with his dying father in England. So it would seem Bonham (and almost certainly Page, Plant and Cole and/or Grant) flew to the West Coast waiting for the tour to start on the East Coast about ten days later. I also know Jimmy purchased a classic Cord 810 automobile in L.A. around this time, but that may have been the last time they were in town --Mar '70.

[SteveAJones]

Jackie DeShannon, the inspiration behind "Tangerine"...

FWIW, here's a dissenting opinion from notorious anti-Page author Will Shade:

Led Zeppelin III found Page still rummaging through his suitcase of Yardbirds castoffs. An album track, "Tangerine," was one Page had worked on with the Yardbirds in the spring of 1968. At that time, it was called "Knowing That I'm Losing You." The two arrangemens are identical. The Yardbirds had never copyrighted the piece, which made it easy for Page to usurp it in its entirety. The song was attributed solely to Jimmy Page with no mention being made of Keith Relf, who had written a significant chunk of the lyrics that appeared in Led Zeppelin's version.

"He [Keith Relf] should really be given a credit for that one," Jim McCarty said, referring specifically to the second verse's lyrics in "Knowing That I'm Losing You," which appear intact as the first verse in "Tangerine."

This author conducted interviews with McCarty, Dreja and Keith Relf's sister, Jane, in the autumn of 2001 for a story on the Page era Yardbirds, which appeared in the 2002 edition of Ugly Things magazine. Lest readers think plagiarism is a victimless crime, Jane Relf's reaction to information on the "Knowing That I'm Losing You" and "Tangerine" situation should give cause for pause.

"My brother plucked that session man out of obscurity and gave him a job and that's how he repaid him?" Jane Relf mused. "My brother was not well-off at the end of his life and the royalties for that song could have helped out considerably."

She was refering to Keith Relf's financial straits at the time of his death in 1976. As for "Knowing That I'm Losing You" and "Tangerine." both feature a steel guitar courtesy of Page. Once again, the Yardbirds' unreleased version is superior. Relf's vocals are heartbreaking and McCarty's drums much lighter and better suited to the song's fragility. Their take has a prominent Morricone touch and the massed vocals at the end take it to new heights. Led Zeppelin's version simply pales in comparison. Page, though, had the good sense to realize the song's appeal and it has since gone onto be one of Zeppelin's most beloved songs, free as it is of Plant's insipid cliches that pass themselves off as lyrics. Page claimed authorship of the entire song, including the lyrics. The Yardbirds had never copyrighted the piece, which made it easy for Page to usurp it in its entirety. The flower-child verses smack of Keith Relf, though.

Edited December 24, 2008 by SteveAJones

[Fortuna]

I'm intrigued by the apparent date of the event: August 5, 1970. Led Zeppelin had cancelled a series of concerts during this time to allow JPJ to remain with his dying father in England. So it would seem Bonham (and almost certainly Page, Plant and Cole and/or Grant) flew to the West Coast waiting for the tour to start on the East Coast about ten days later. I also know Jimmy purchased a classic Cord 810 automobile in L.A. around this time, but that may have been the last time they were in town --Mar '70.

The Gary Moore interview(when he mentioned the incident) may have been on the Irish Late Late Show many years ago. There is probably a story there somewhere that has been embellished along the way.

Anyway, here's 'Paddy McGinty's Goat' by Val Doonican, 1967, for those who were curious as to what the comment meant.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=3x76tT_oCeI

[SteveAJones]

Mystery Photo:

Possibilities:

3/23/91 China Club New York City

Jam session with local band The Reputations for half an hour including 'Further On Up The Road'

5/29/91 Crystal Bay Club Crystal Bay, NV

80 minute impromptu jam session with Solid Ground

12/7/91 86 St. Music Hall Vancouver

Jam session with Long John Baldry for 30-minute blues set which includes 'Got My Mojo Working' …he'd been hanging out and talked with Baldry's guitarist Tony for about 15 mins

2/19/93 Muddy Waters Club New Orleans

Jam with Mason Ruffner

2/21/93 Howlin' Wolf Club New Orleans

Jam with Mason Ruffner

I suspect the photograph was taken during one of the two jams with Mason (Jimmy's good friend and an opening act for The Firm in '86) but have yet to find a photo of Mason from '93 to confirm. Can anyone in New Orleans (Alwizard ?) confirm that the interior of either club matches that in the photo above?

Edited December 24, 2008 by SteveAJones

[marmorek]

Sorry to quote myself, but I just wanted to post this photo from that Mill Valley trip:

Hmm ... Knebby posted that pic in another thread but said it was Keats Island, BC (near Vancouver).

Edited December 24, 2008 by marmorek

[SteveAJones]

Hmm ... Knebby posted that pic in another thread but said it was Keats Island, BC (near Vancouver).

Unfortunately, I don't have my copy Richard Cole's book 'Stairway to Heaven - Led Zeppelin Uncensored" in front of me at the moment, but I'm almost certain it was captioned "Mill Valley" when published there. Regardless, thanks for the clarification.

[swandown]

At that time, it was called "Knowing That I'm Losing You." The two arrangemens are identical.

I bet when Will Shade wrote this, he was assuming that the original song would never see the light of day. Because now that it has been proven that the two arrangements are not identical, he looks like the bitter Jimmy Page hater that we always knew he was.

The song was attributed solely to Jimmy Page with no mention being made of Keith Relf, who had written a significant chunk of the lyrics that appeared in Led Zeppelin's version.

There's no evidence to support this claim, aside from a quote (30 years after the fact) from Jim McCarty. But there's also a quote from Jimmy Page who says he wrote the original song himself. Just because one person says something, that doesn't make it true. That's not how the world works.

"My brother plucked that session man out of obscurity and gave him a job and that's how he repaid him?" Jane Relf mused. "My brother was not well-off at the end of his life and the royalties for that song could have helped out considerably."

*shrug* If only he'd copyrighted the song or had some other evidence that he actually wrote the song, then he wouldn't have needed Jimmy to help him out.

Once again, the Yardbirds' unreleased version is superior. Relf's vocals are heartbreaking

Maybe, but his vocals are also out of tune and his voice was in such bad shape that he needed the other Yardbirds to cover for him on the high notes. Again, I think Will Shade assumed that no one else would ever hear the song so he felt free to exaggerate as much as he wanted.

it has since gone onto be one of Zeppelin's most beloved songs, free as it is of Plant's insipid cliches that pass themselves off as lyrics. The flower-child verses smack of Keith Relf, though.

Yeah, because neither Page nor Plant ever wrote flower-child lyrics.

Edited December 24, 2008 by swandown

[SteveAJones]

Mystery Photo:

New Possibility:

This from Devon-based singer/guitarist Martin Weller's site:

Q. You've worked with some of music's well-respected acts such as Led Zeppelin, Peter Frampton, Dean Friedman, Frampton-Weller, Captain Sensible, UK Subs, Counterfeit Stones and T-Rextasy, etc.... Who have you enjoyed working with the most and why?

A. The experience of playing with one's music 'heroes' is unbelievable and all Weller's dreams came true in 1990 when he sang lead vocals with Zeppelin's Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones along -with AC/DC's Chris Slade on drums.

---------------------------------

Venue, city and date remain unconfirmed. Any help would be most appreciated...

Edited December 25, 2008 by SteveAJones

[jabe]

Note the ever humble John Paul Jones.Seemingly content to be in the background,out of the spotlight.Some things never change...except in this case,he's on the opposite side of the drum kit.

[bonzo1026]

Mystery Photo:

Possibilities:

3/23/91 China Club New York City

Jam session with local band The Reputations for half an hour including 'Further On Up The Road'

5/29/91 Crystal Bay Club Crystal Bay, NV

80 minute impromptu jam session with Solid Ground

12/7/91 86 St. Music Hall Vancouver

Jam session with Long John Baldry for 30-minute blues set which includes 'Got My Mojo Working' …he'd been hanging out and talked with Baldry's guitarist Tony for about 15 mins

2/19/93 Muddy Waters Club New Orleans

Jam with Mason Ruffner

2/21/93 Howlin' Wolf Club New Orleans

Jam with Mason Ruffner

I suspect the photograph was taken during one of the two jams with Mason (Jimmy's good friend and an opening act for The Firm in '86) but have yet to find a photo of Mason from '93 to confirm. Can anyone in New Orleans (Alwizard ?) confirm that the interior of either club matches that in the photo above?

Steve,

I hope this helps. I had a boot of Jimmy playing with Solid Ground and I believe they had a female singer. Also, the drummer looks to have hair so I would say that isn't Chris Slade.

[bonzo1026]

It's funny you should mention the jam with Solid Ground, as I've never seen any

photos from that one. I have the recording, and that lineup had a male as well as a female singer. I've been to the Crystal Bay Club myself so at least I have photos of

the venue.

Unfortunately my copy has since vanished but I recall a pic being on the front of the CD. I'm not aware of any others that exist beyond that.