Oil now $144 a barrel

[TheHunter1188]

There is plenty of oil in the U.S. The enviro wacko's are the problem.

The U.S. contains 3% of the worlds oil reserve while we consume 25% of the worlds oil. It doesn't add up. We can not drill ourselves out of this problem. Free Energy is real and is out their.

[Electrophile]

Some of you need to quit using the word "flip-flop" as much as you are. It's becoming devoid of all meaning. Not every time a politician decides a better course is the way to go is it a "flip-flop". You're basically accusing every politican who has ever changed their minds of doing this, including the candidate YOU support. So you're kicking yourself in the shins in the process.

Beat a new drum.

[TheHunter1188]

Kermit, did you miss this latest flip flop at Obama's own web site?? A poster posted this at another thread, but I thought maybe you missed it, and realized how much you would enjoy it.

If you only new what Barack Obama represents and is really fighting against John McCain is in the pockets and controlled by the Global "Banksters" (Rocketfeller's, Rothchilds, Illuminati) while Barack Obama is not. visit tbrnews.org.

[Electrophile]

If you only new what Barack Obama represents and is really fighting against John McCain is in the pockets and controlled by the Global "Banksters" (Rocketfeller's, Rothchilds, Illuminati) while Barack Obama is not. visit tbrnews.org.

I hope no one takes you as seriously as you take yourself.

[TheHunter1188]

I hope no one takes you as seriously as you take yourself.

?

[Electrophile]

You actually accused John McCain of being in the pocket of the Illuminati. Next thing you'll tell us, aliens were on the grassy knoll. What a crackpot.

[TheHunter1188]

You actually accused John McCain of being in the pocket of the Illuminati. Next thing you'll tell us, aliens were on the grassy knoll. What a crackpot.

lol, if making me out to be a "crack pot" is what makes you feel better then go for it. The information is out there , just follow the money.

p.s. aliens were not on the grassy knoll

[Electrophile]

lol, if making me out to be a "crack pot" is what makes you feel better then go for it. The information is out there , just follow the money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

Illuminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, "enlightened") is a name that refers to several groups, both real and fictitious. Historically, it refers specifically to the (Bavarian) Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1st, 1776, which was dedicated to the systematic and stealthy conquest of nations, one by one, and ultimately the entire world.^[1]In modern times it is also used to refer to a purported conspiratorial organization which acts as a shadowy power behind the throne, allegedly controlling world affairs through present day governments and corporations, usually as a modern incarnation or continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati. In this context, Illuminati is often used in reference to a New World Order (NWO). Many conspiracy theorists believe the Illuminati are the masterminds behind events that will lead to the establishment of such a New World Order. Confusing the issue further is the fact that there are also several modern fraternal groups which include the word "Illuminati" in their names.

New World Order? Conspiracy theorists? Dedicated to the systematic and stealthy conquest of nations? And we're supposed to think you're serious?

[TheHunter1188]

There is no point in arguing with you, whatever I say you will deny.

[Electrophile]

Because it's horsepuckey! I'd sooner believe John McCain was the reincarnated spirit of Jesus Christ than this mess.

[wanna be drummer]

If you only new what Barack Obama represents and is really fighting against John McCain is in the pockets and controlled by the Global "Banksters" (Rocketfeller's, Rothchilds, Illuminati) while Barack Obama is not. visit tbrnews.org.

Oh geez, the Illumnati

Haven't we disproved world-order conspiracy theories enough times to shut people up yet?

[TheHunter1188]

Oh geez, the Illumnati

Haven't we disproved world-order conspiracy theories enough times to shut people up yet?

Clearly you have not thoroughly researched the subject matter. The global elite have been running the show for well over 100 years. John McCain is in the pockets of the global elite; That is a fact;You can call it whatever name you want,it is real and in the midst of unraveling. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with a NWO or a one world government, I'm talking about the reality of secret societies and secret governments that are controlled by the bilderberg group, Rockefellers, and the Rothchilds that currently control the banking systems of the world and therefore our elected political leaders.

[Electrophile]

Secret societies and secret governments? What next, the Zionist Conspiracy? You all are entertaining, if nothing else.

[TheHunter1188]

Secret societies and secret governments? What next, the Zionist Conspiracy? You all are entertaining, if nothing else.

Zionist Conspiracy?? wow, you really have me painted all wrong. Oh well, at least I tried . Good night guys.

[Electrophile]

Zionist Conspiracy?? wow, you really have me painted all wrong. Oh well, at least I tried . Good night guys.

I don't know what you were trying to do, other than inject complete nonsense into the thread. What did you possibly think would happen upon saying that John McCain is in the pockets of the Illuminati? Someone to jump up and scream they have proof? We're smarter than that.

BTW, I wasn't specifically saying you believe in a Zionist Conspiracy, I was merely throwing out another ridiculous conspiracy theory I know people cling to. It was more for hilarity's sake than anything else. So relax.

[beatbo]

Oh geez, the Illumnati

hey, man.....i saw those cats, yeah......awesome band! man, they really know how to dig it, man.

like, the guitar player, man, was totally blowing my mind......

the illuminati...yeah......on buddah records, man....check it out!

[TypeO]

Oil would drop just on the announcement that our government had passed legislation authorizing domestic drilling of ANWR and offshore.

This is simply another indication of Obama's lack of understanding of the large-scale economics involved with running the country.

His inexperience is further exposed by his intended policies of initiating windfall profits taxes on the oil companies.

NO corporations pay taxes, least of all the oil companies.

Their end-users pay the taxes for them.

As their expenses (taxes) increase, so their prices increase to absorb the higher costs.

So all Obama's plan will do is cost us regular folks more at the pump.

Until you cite sources, TypeO, I take your predictions about OPEC as being nothing more than personal speculation and/or fantasy. And in that regard, I think the assessments and reports of the US federal government's Energy Information Administration [reports and assessments that are clearly non-partisan as (unlike many other govt agencies under the Bush regime) the EIA is not parroting the Bush-Cheney-Big Oil party line] carry a little more credibility than your personal predictions.

With all due respect, bro,.. show me the expert opinions!

Who needs opinions?

Let reality do the 'splaining

Bush lifts executive ban on offshore drilling, oil drops $16 in 3 days.

Is that immediate enough?

Wonder how much more it would drop if we followed through with a lift of the legislative ban?

But the Democratic controlled congress couldn't allow prices to go down and shed positive light on Bush and conservatives who are in favor of drilling, now could they?

Pelosi and Boxer want us to dip into the strategic reserve - how's that for short-term pandering?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381761,00.html

[Hickory Man]

Who needs opinions?

Let reality do the 'splaining

Bush lifts executive ban on offshore drilling, oil drops $16 in 3 days.

Is that immediate enough?Wonder how much more it would drop if we followed through with a lift of the legislative ban?

But the Democratic controlled congress couldn't allow prices to go down and shed positive light on Bush and conservatives who are in favor of drilling, now could they?

Pelosi and Boxer want us to dip into the strategic reserve - how's that for short-term pandering?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381761,00.html

Yes, and I love that when the price of a barrel goes up, the price at the pump can't change fast enough. Now that the oil has dropped, curiously my government hasn't seen to it that I quit taking it up the tailpipe at the local gas outlets.

[Hickory Man]

Obama said that the only problem was that it took gas to long to get to $4 a gallon. Give him a call and gripe.............but, I'm sure that he will be flip flopping on that too.

No, how bout we blame those that are...I don't know... actually in office.

[Reggie29]

Like everything else oil prices are about supply and demand.

The best way to to drive fuel prices down is to minimise the use of our cars and other fossil fuel dependencies.

Since the peak of $146 a barrel, people have been forced to be more economical with their fuel consumption.

The fact oil has dropped $16 over the last few days is no coincidence and not just because of anything to do with Bush or new off shore drilling.

If they don't sell it (OPEC countries certainly can't drink it), prices would continue to fall.

If we all got off our arses and out of our cars for short trips (which use more fuel than

long journeys), we would all be beter off for it.

The planet benefits from reductions of pollution and so does peoples health just by walking or riding bikes etc.

It's all relative.

[Hermit_]

Who needs opinions?

Let reality do the 'splaining

Bush lifts executive ban on offshore drilling, oil drops $16 in 3 days.

Is that immediate enough?

Wonder how much more it would drop if we followed through with a lift of the legislative ban?

But the Democratic controlled congress couldn't allow prices to go down and shed positive light on Bush and conservatives who are in favor of drilling, now could they?

Pelosi and Boxer want us to dip into the strategic reserve - how's that for short-term pandering?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381761,00.html

Strange though, TypeO,.. the price at the pump hasn't gone down at all.

Could it be that the the oil companies are pocketing the $16/barrel

they're saving rather than passing the savings on to consumers?

Funny how it (always) seems to work that way with Big Oil, huh?

Oh, and since you mentioned "short term pandering":

-----------------

*The Campaign / McCain: Extend gas tax holiday*

07/18/2008 GRAND HAVEN, Mich. — John McCain said Thursday that his proposal to suspend the gasoline tax for three months this summer may need to be extended longer if high prices continue to take a toll on the economy. "I think we have to consider all options, but the fact is we need a gas tax holiday," he said. "We need it, we need it, we need it very badly. The Americans that are hurt the most are low-income Americans who are driving the oldest automobiles."

------------------

What is it we need, John?,.. an extended "psychological" boost?

------------------

"I think psychologically, a lot of our problems today are psychological — confidence, trust, uncertainty about our economic future, ability to keep our own home. [A gas-tax holiday] might give ‘em a little psychological boost. Let’s have some straight talk: it’s not a huge amount of money…. A little psychological boost. That’s what I think would help.”

*http://youtube.com/watch?v=cvCpFWzmP1Y*

------------------

Yeah,.. let's do have some straight talk,.. eh, John!

You're full of shit, you shameless pandering schmuck!

There ya go.. Straight talk.. expressed.

[speaking of schmucks.. what about those who buy into McCain's pander?

It's really sad hard to fathom how extremely gullible they are,.. isnt it? ]

[Reggie29]

Strange though, TypeO,.. the price at the pump hasn't gone down at all.

Could it be that the the oil companies are pocketing the $16/barrel

they're saving rather than passing the savings on to consumers?

Funny how it (always) seems to work that way with Big Oil, huh?

Yeah that happens here too.

The price of oil goes up today and petrol goes up immediately.

Oil goes down and you might see a slight decrease at the pump, if at all.

Our pump prices fluctuate almost daily with Tuesday usually up to .10c/litre cheaper.

Lately some service stations are posting "empty" notices on bowsers providing unleaded, funny how they always seem to have premium unleaded at the higher price available.

Someone tried the pump and lo and behold he got fuel.

Surprisingly the operator decllined to be interviewed by the media and the oil company said "it was an isolated incident."

An investigation is currently under way.

[TypeO]

Yes, and I love that when the price of a barrel goes up, the price at the pump can't change fast enough. Now that the oil has dropped, curiously my government hasn't seen to it that I quit taking it up the tailpipe at the local gas outlets.

Strange though, TypeO,.. the price at the pump hasn't gone down at all.

Could it be that the the oil companies are pocketing the $16/barrel

they're saving rather than passing the savings on to consumers?

Funny how it (always) seems to work that way with Big Oil, huh?

^^^ QFT ^^^

For the record - are you two suggesting that pump prices WILL NOT go down accordingly if oil stays or continues trending downward?

Just because the price drop isn't INSTANT doesn't make it invalid when it does drop.

"Oh sure it dropped - A WHOLE WEEK LATER!"

I believe the argument was it would take years for results at the pump from the announcement of our intentions to expand domestic drilling.

And Hermit, are you suggesting that "Big Oil" just pockets the extra money?

I know you're smarter than that, you've proven it.

That's just a fall-back statement to maintain your positions, and you know it.

I know you understand profit margin just as well as the average person doesn't understand profit margin, which is why statements like OBSCENE PROFITS get so much traction.

ANALOGY ALERT!!!

Hermit buys B.O. superhero posters for $1 each and sells them for $2 each making a nice profit of $1 for every dollar he spends.

His profit margin is 100%

He sells an average of 100 posters a day, making $100 profit a day.

Life is good.

Suddenly, the cost of B.O. superhero posters jumps from $1 to $4!

Oh No!

Now if Hermit charges $2 for a poster, he'll LOSE money.

So he has to raise his price accordingly.

In order to maintain his 100% profit margin - to continue to earn THE SAME dollar for every dollar spent - Hermit must now sell his B.O. superhero posters for $8.

Now, when he sells his 100 posters a day, he make $400 profit in a day.

HOLY SHIT!

Hermit used to make $100 a day, now he makes $400 a day!!!

RECORD PROFITS!

It's OBSCENE that he makes 4 times what he used to make.

But Hermit says FUCK that, I don't make A SINGLE CENT more than I used to make.

I still only make $1 profit for every dollar I spend.

The B.O. superhero poster business is good.

Guess what?

The oil industry isn't as profitable as the B.O. superhero poster industry.

Big Oil profit margins hover at 8%.

That's 8 CENTS PROFIT for every dollar spent.

AND THAT HASN'T CHANGED.

But the average American slept through economics class (who can blame them - what 16 year old thinks it actually matters? :lolo)

here's a little Washington Post analysis to put it in real terms

Point is Hermit, your suggestion that BIG OIL "just pockets" the $16 a barrel difference is so steeped in ignorance (the general public's, not yours) and partisan spin that it almost spins right off the page.

But that's why you framed it as a question to begin with, no?

Now, when is the Pelosi/Boxer machine gonna get on board with the rest of the general public who wants some relief from gas prices WHILE WE PURSUE ALTERNATE FORMS OF ENERGY?

And again, I'm not a huge fan of McCain.

I just think he's preferable to B.O.

I'd just hate for our country to be perceived as having B.O., know what I mean?

[Hermit_]

I hear where you're coming from, friend, and I do appreciate the that you're

presenting a thoughtful, intelligent pov.. a pov that I acknowledge is not without merit.

However,.. while the oil companies' 8% profit margins are not obscene in comparison to profit margins realized by other manufacturing industries [about 2% higher], per se,.. oil companies' overall profits are certainly, imho, obscene. When that 8% profit margin amounts to $41 billion in one year.. and the American people are struggling under the weight of $4.50 price per gallon gas,.. and oil company CEOs are earning $20 million annually.. then, yes, imho that 8% is obscene. Under the circumstances, a 2% profit margin ($10billion.. annually) should suffice, don't ya think? *wink*. Seriously though,.. why do oil companies make billions of dollars in profit each year? Because of the enormous volumes of sales involved; because consumers are dependent on their product (ie, their product is an absolute necessity to consumers); because the industry is controlled by just a handful of companies; and because those companies collude to manipulate the supply of refined oil to keep demand always exceeding supply. The oil companies buy crude oil at OPEC prices, but they manipulate cost of gas to consumers by manipulating the supply of refined oil (gas) available to consumers.

Rather than invest a percentage their profits in building more refineries.. which would increase the supply of gas available to consumers and thus lower the price consumers pay at the pump,.. they (the CEO's and board members) pocket their vast profits, build nicer office complexes, buy ever-fancier corporate jets, give themselves outrageous retirement packages, and "invest" in "donating" to political campaigns (ie, they finance lobbyists who then buy political support.. ie, a process of legalized bribery).

Lee Raymond, former Exxon Mobil CEO who retired in Jan 2006, earned $49 million in 2005 ($4 million in annual salary, the rest in bonuses, stock options, etc). He retired with a retirement package worth $8 million a year (he chose to accept a lump sum payment of $98 million instead). Rex Tillerson, current Exxon Mobil CEO, earned $16.7 million in 2007,.. (a 29% increase from his 2006 earnings) and will earn $27 million in 2008.[Exxon Mobil CEO income info complied from various web sources]

I don't care who earns it, or what job they perform to earn it,.. a $27 million annual salary is an obscene amount of money. Thats $2.25 million a month; approx $600,000 a week; approx $85,000 a day; and approx $8,500 per work hour (given a 10hr work day). "Hi, I'm Rex, and I earn $8,500 an hour.. that's more than most people make in 3 months. ".

ok, screw the greedy CEOs.. let's get back to looking at company earnings:

Exxon Mobil.. one company.. earned $41 billion in PROFIT in 2007.

The largest profit recorded in the history of the human race.

Chevron.. $19billion. Add in ConocPhilips and Shell.. and together the

four companies reaped in $100billion in profits.. in.. just.. one.. year.

Slice that however you want, but the bottom line is that those

four companies earned $100 billion more than they spent.

They may earned just 7.8% more than they spent, but the

bottom is that they profited $100 billion in one year.

[And that's their net annual earnings. Kinda makes ya

wonder what their gross earnings for the year are, huh? ]

The trend:

in 2003 Exxon Mobil earned $22 billion

in 2004 Exxon Mobil earned $25 billion

in 2005 Exxon Mobil earned $36 billion

in 2006 Exxon Mobil earned $39 billion

in 2007 Exxon Mobil earned $41 billion

[in the 1st quarter of 2008, Exxon Mobil earned $11 billion;

..the company is on pace to earn $44 billion for the year.]

At 2% profit margin instead of 8%, they'd still make $11 billion for the year.. annual

earnings that most business owners would consider a successful year, donch ya think?

The Perspective:

Exxon nation:If Exxon Mobil were a country, its 2007 profit would exceed the gross domestic product of nearly two thirds of the 183 nations in the World Bank's economic rankings. It would be right in there behind the likes of Angola and Qatar—two oil-producing nations, incidentally, where Exxon has major operations.

Ahead of the pack:Exxon Mobil's profits are 80 percent higher than those of General Electric, which used to be the largest U.S. company by market capitalization before Exxon left it in the dust in 2005. The new economy? Microsoft earns about a third as much money. And next to Exxon, the world's largest retailer, Wal-Mart, looks like a quaint boutique, with annual profits of about $11 billion.

On the margin: The oil industry urges people to look beyond its profits to its profit margin: about 7.6 percent of revenues late last year. That's not much higher than the 5.8 percent profit margin for all U.S. manufacturing, and if you exclude the financially troubled auto industry from that analysis, the oil industry actually appears less profitable than most manufacturers, which were earning 9.2 cents on every dollar of sales.

But unrivaled returns on equity:. However, profit margins across industries vary greatly based not on how well each business is doing but how capital- or labor-intensive it is. Oil is among the most capital-intensive. But look at the oil industry's profits compared with shareholder equity it has available for investment. The U.S. Energy Information Administration's most recent analysis of the oil industry's performance, released just last month, showed oil industry return on equity of 27 percent—about 10 points higher than that of other manufacturers. source

----------------

Anyway..

I appreciate your point, TypeO,.. but afaic,.. the oil companies are manipulating the market (by choosing to keep supply low despite their financial capability to increase supply and satisfy a constantly high demand) and as a result they are taking advantage of consumers who are dependent on their product and in doing so they are reaping (what I consider to be) obscene profits.

Now, when is the Pelosi/Boxer machine gonna get on board with the rest of the general public who wants some relief from gas prices WHILE WE PURSUE ALTERNATE FORMS OF ENERGY?

Pelosi and Boxer know that gas tax holidays and expanded offshore drilling will not bring relief to consumers,.. but rather will merely mean more money in the pockets of Big Oil.

Notwithstanding the fact that oil companies already have millions of acres of leased drilling sites that they are, by choice, not drilling on.. please show me the opinions of energy experts who think expanding offshore drilling will lead to significant (short term or long term) drop in prices paid by consumers at the pump.

[and to be clear,.. by "energy experts" I don't mean the likes of

Bill Kristol, Rush Limbaugh, Chuck Crackhammer, and Bill O'Reilly. ]

There are no short term solutions, there are no real short term relief measures. To believe in "short term relief" is to be self-deluded. I think we need to bite the bullet of these high gas prices and let our suffering serve to motivate us to wean ourselves from fossil fuel dependency once and for all. Further harming the environment (by way of more drilling and/or building more refineries) out of short term economic convenience is not the answer; its myopic. And its energy myopia that got us in the position in the first place. We blew it by waiting so long to start on the path toward independence from fossil fuels [aside: Thanks GWB. Al Gore would have had us well down (pun intended) the path toward energy independence by now]. We, as citizens, collectively made this bed, and now we gotta sleep in it.. until we build a new bed.. a greener bed.. the sooner the better.

The answer is in "changing" the paradigm altogether. The answer is in ending our dependence on.. our addiction to.. fossil fuels. The answer lies in an energy revolution that will bring about cleaner, safer, more affordable energy.

We landed a man on the moon in less than 10 years.. surely if we marshal our resources and the ingenuity of the brightest minds among us, we can come up with an alternate energy source in 10 years too. *T., Boone Pickens* seems to think we can do it.

[Pb Derigable]

^^^ QFT ^^^

For the record - are you two suggesting that pump prices WILL NOT go down accordingly if oil stays or continues trending downward?

Just because the price drop isn't INSTANT doesn't make it invalid when it does drop.

"Oh sure it dropped - A WHOLE WEEK LATER!"

I believe the argument was it would take years for results at the pump from the announcement of our intentions to expand domestic drilling.

And Hermit, are you suggesting that "Big Oil" just pockets the extra money?

I know you're smarter than that, you've proven it.

That's just a fall-back statement to maintain your positions, and you know it.

I know you understand profit margin just as well as the average person doesn't understand profit margin, which is why statements like OBSCENE PROFITS get so much traction.

ANALOGY ALERT!!!

Hermit buys B.O. superhero posters for $1 each and sells them for $2 each making a nice profit of $1 for every dollar he spends.

His profit margin is 100%

He sells an average of 100 posters a day, making $100 profit a day.

Life is good.

Suddenly, the cost of B.O. superhero posters jumps from $1 to $4!

Oh No!

Now if Hermit charges $2 for a poster, he'll LOSE money.

So he has to raise his price accordingly.

In order to maintain his 100% profit margin - to continue to earn THE SAME dollar for every dollar spent - Hermit must now sell his B.O. superhero posters for $8.

Now, when he sells his 100 posters a day, he make $400 profit in a day.

HOLY SHIT!

Hermit used to make $100 a day, now he makes $400 a day!!!

RECORD PROFITS!

It's OBSCENE that he makes 4 times what he used to make.

But Hermit says FUCK that, I don't make A SINGLE CENT more than I used to make.

I still only make $1 profit for every dollar I spend.

The B.O. superhero poster business is good.

Guess what?

The oil industry isn't as profitable as the B.O. superhero poster industry.

Big Oil profit margins hover at 8%.

That's 8 CENTS PROFIT for every dollar spent.

AND THAT HASN'T CHANGED.

But the average American slept through economics class (who can blame them - what 16 year old thinks it actually matters? :lolo)

here's a little Washington Post analysis to put it in real terms

Point is Hermit, your suggestion that BIG OIL "just pockets" the $16 a barrel difference is so steeped in ignorance (the general public's, not yours) and partisan spin that it almost spins right off the page.

But that's why you framed it as a question to begin with, no?

Now, when is the Pelosi/Boxer machine gonna get on board with the rest of the general public who wants some relief from gas prices WHILE WE PURSUE ALTERNATE FORMS OF ENERGY?

And again, I'm not a huge fan of McCain.

I just think he's preferable to B.O.

I'd just hate for our country to be perceived as having B.O., know what I mean?

Hell of a post, i always felt the same way.

My union pension is heavy into oil. Last week, the bussines manger said in a metting, if the oil companies were passing thier profits along to consumers, Every single pension fund will sue everbody on the board of directors of every single oil companines for them to be voted off the board.

Congress just brought some of these guys, who were doing thier job, in and question why they make 30 million a year, but gas prices are up.

Why don't these same assholes in congress ask why A-rod makes 30 million a year, when baseball tickets are high. Why should Tiger woods make 120 million a year, but a ceo of a fortune 500 compainies can't make 30 milion without question.

Yes, the oil campanies are making record profits, and they will continue making record profits if congress passes a profit cap tax, they will just pass it along to the consumers, the tax, not the profit.

Oil companies if you let them, will build 100 offshore rigs, 10 new refineris, and build pipelines to anwar, but congress and liberal wackos rather pay tbone pickens to build wind power, in which his profit records would make the oil comapanies profits look small and will take twice as long.

I don't get this we won't get oil in ten years from offshore, so lets pay somebody to do it in 20 years.

I truly think, the G.O.P. would rather Nancy Pelosi get her way again, becasue as soon as congress goes into reccess, they will bring up this issue and cry foul towards the Dems and thier superstar Obama.

Obama has no plan for gas prices and no plan for Iraq, do you really think he has a shot.

If gas is 1.25 on monday, GM is still going to invest in Hybrids, there will still be wind pwer devolped and there may be a shot of finding true alternative energy.

Saying we should bite the bullet is complete fucking stupid. china is biting no bullet and would you rather have them run the world economy