To bail or not to bail?

[Rock Action]

[bonzo1026]

Had they asked first, I'd say no but since they already bailed out those corporate thieving Wall Street sissy fuckheads, I say why not? What's another couple billion we don't fuckin' have?

HOPEFULLY they'll invest in making better cars than the goddamn ja..........asian market

Edited December 11, 2008 by bonzo1026

[Rock Action]

I hate to see the companies tank, because that means hundreds of thousands more workers out of jobs. But at the same time, they've asked for it. Shit vehicles at insane prices that hardly anyone can afford these days. Forget about all the silly fucking gadgets and just make something simple, practical, efficient, durable AND AFFORDABLE.

And it isn't just that people are now buying Asian cars. A lot of people are simply keeping what they have and repairing them rather than replacing them. Works for me.

[Electrophile]

We can't let the auto industry go under. We just can't. That is in no way, shape or form going to help this economy or help the American worker. We gave the fucking banks $700 billion dollars but we can't give a fraction of that to the auto industry? Both groups of people caused their own problems, but bailing out one but not the other would be phenomenally stupid. And I'm tired of this country looking phenomenally stupid.

[Rock Action]

I would agree to a bailout- under the conditions that the rest of us also benefit under the guidelines I mentioned in my earlier post. But to continue doing the same old shit afterwards just doesn't fly.

This would have never happened had the American auto makers kept our best interests and needs at the forefront, rather than just pushing "bling" at us at exorbitant prices.

[bonzo1026]

I hate to see the companies tank, because that means hundreds of thousands more workers out of jobs. But at the same time, they've asked for it. Shit vehicles at insane prices that hardly anyone can afford these days. Forget about all the silly fucking gadgets and just make something simple, practical, efficient, durable AND AFFORDABLE.

And it isn't just that people are now buying Asian cars. A lot of people are simply keeping what they have and repairing them rather than replacing them. Works for me.

Funny you say that. I just gave back my leased 2007 Chevy Impala to the dealer and bought a '79 Coupe DeVille from a private owner. No more ridiculous car payment and extortion...I mean sky high insurance rates.

Thank God the gas prices went down but at least I know where everything is under the hood should something go wrong; and with today's cars if I get in an accident, I'll win everytime!

[Rock Action]

Funny you say that. I just gave back my leased 2007 Chevy Impala to the dealer and bought a '79 Coupe DeVille from a private owner. No more ridiculous car payment and extortion...I mean sky high insurance rates.

Thank God the gas prices went down but at least I know where everything is under the hood should something go wrong; and with today's cars if I get in an accident, I'll win everytime!

I've got two Jeeps- one downsized 1992 Cherokee that gets great gas mileage but will go right through the snow around here. The other is a 1967 Wagoneer that my dad bought new and still looks /runs like new. Great for camping trips, hauling firewood, etc. And even IT gets decent mileage considering the size. Both are relatively easy to fix, insurance is reasonable, AND THEY'RE PAID FOR.

Why spend $35-40K for something that gets shitty mileage and is likely to crap out? Where I live I need a 4 wheel drive vehicle that will handle a reasonable amount of gear. A fucking Focus ain't gonna cut it.

[bonzo1026]

I would agree to a bailout- under the conditions that the rest of us also benefit under the guidelines I mentioned in my earlier post. But to continue doing the same old shit afterwards just doesn't fly.

This would have never happened had the American auto makers kept our best interests and needs at the forefront, rather than just pushing "bling" at us at exorbitant prices.

I agree. They should have more quality control and bring the damn jobs back to the U.S. I have more sympathy towards the auto industry though because we pretty much invented it and I hate to see what's become of it. However I have no sympathy for Corporate America. The reason they're all in trouble is because they're all selfish, and run by greedy sissy white collar assholes who preach ass-kissing and laziness(and golf prowess) in order to get ahead; not skill, hard work, or dedication.

I worked for AIG for 8 years and was laid off around this time last year( yes, Merry fuckin Xmas). When I heard what they did with the bailout money, I couldn't have been happier that I was no longer associated with such a gang of pompous shitheads. I think they should have to give every fuckin cent back and close their doors. Hey, they and the other companies had their 100+ years of doing business. They fucked up so I say close 'em and let the young upstarts have THEIR 100 years and do it right.

[Bong-Man]

I'm still trying to figure out how somebody making $14 bucks an hour is going to be expected to buy a Chevy Volt, which is supposed to cost $40,000 bucks.

Gotta love when a Senator/Congressman asks a car CEO why they were building all those SUVs and pick-ups all these years.....LOL, like they were all waiting in line for a little car.

Hey ! Loser Senator from Alabamy....How much federally generated tax dollars have been sucked off the Big 3, their employees, and the State of Michigan, and sent to your sorry little backwards village in the last 50-60 years ?

Between the Lions and the car companies, I'm pretty much tired of getting kicked in the shins. Screw you all ! I'll give up my V-8 American pick-up when they pry my fingers from the bloody steering wheel.

[Virginia]

I'm all over the place on this one. I can't believe the executives were allowed to let this happen (not just in the auto industry either); with their huge bonuses, golden parachutes etc. while so many working people are suffering right now.

We can't let the American workers down by not bailing them out. If the auto industry went down, the ripple effect would be disastrous.

I'm equally torn about stipulations/assurances. On the one hand, that goes against a free market/capitalism, but OTOH, the executives can't be allowed to repeat this. I just don't know what the right thing is; I'm not economics-savvy enough to figure that out. It has to make economic sense, and protect the working class.

It kills me though that so many mid level jobs have been outsourced overseas. I'm really questioning a lot of my beliefs right now.

[eternal light]

If the auto industry would keep its own house in order instead of asking the government for a handout then I would understand. But Congress has a right to ask those questions now.

[PennyLane]

Hey ! Loser Senator from Alabamy....

How did he ever get elected ?!

[Rock Action]

If the auto industry would keep its own house in order instead of asking the government for a handout then I would understand. But Congress has a right to ask those questions now.

Absolutely.

So far it looks like we'd be feeding the hands that bite us. Sad thing is, the huge majority of auto workers are not the criminals, and I'd hate to see them suffer. But somewhere, somehow, we have to take a stand and put an end to all this crap.

[eternal light]

Of necessity, the United States will be looking at better transportation solutions and more cost effective measures.

[Rock Action]

Of necessity, the United States will be looking at better transportation solutions and more cost effective measures.

Already happening.

But the auto industry can also survive by building cars that are safe, functional and economical in all aspects if they really want to. The technology and ability exists. But instead, we get a bunch of fancy, expensive and unneccessary toys peddled to the gullible public. Today's cars are outfitted with everything but an automatic ass-wiper. And I hear the 2010 models even have that. And that alone makes them unaffordable to most people. And the ones who say "well I got it financed"- how do you enjoy those $500 a month payments?

Not for me. Nope. I'm keeping what I have, and keeping them in good condition.

[Virginia]

Already happening.

But the auto industry can also survive by building cars that are safe, functional and economical in all aspects if they really want to. The technology and ability exists. But instead, we get a bunch of fancy, expensive and unneccessary toys peddled to the gullible public. Today's cars are outfitted with everything but an automatic ass-wiper. And I hear the 2010 models even have that. And that alone makes them unaffordable to most people. And the ones who say "well I got it financed"- how do you enjoy those $500 a month payments?

Not for me. Nope. I'm keeping what I have, and keeping them in good condition.

I know what you mean; we are about 14 months away from being free of car payments. I really need a 7-seater for carpooling, but right now I'd rather not have the car payment than to start up over again.

[ally]

From my vantage point north of the border, the whole bail out process seems to be flawed in the sense that the money doesn't seem to be getting to where it's supposed to go. I realize that a very short period of time has gone by and the full impact of the bail outs may not have had long enough to take effect but, I can't help but think that Congress is flying by the seat of it's pants. The auto industry can't be allowed to go under and because of that, I agree with helping them out but to me, Congress demands of a buisness plan are more about politics than anything else. If they were incapable of figuring that out with the banking bail out, what makes anyone think that they'll be able to monitor the auto industry with any degree of experience. I say this because I know at some point in Canada, we will be looking at an economic stimulus package and I have the exact same concerns about our governments ability to ear mark that package to the correct areas.

[Rock Action]

Good points.

I sure as hell don't want any more of our hard-earned money going to bail out companies that are simply going to continue screwing us. And I bet you anything that's exactly what WILL happen.

Again, I feel terrible for the workers. But this plan better be to the benefit of everyone.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Rock Action

[wanna be drummer]

If the bailout happens, let it go on the record that i say "It will not work."

They're just going to stay the course and maybe invest in some new technology,. Big fucking deal.That's not enough. They'll continue as they always have if they get this money. That would be incredibly unofrtunate and only delay the inevitable. Don't give them a "bailout". Let them fix themselves by dramatically altering they way they run themselves. Hell, it didn't help Chrysler back in the day did it? They're right back to where they were. if they don't correct their mistakes ON THEIR OWN, they'll never learn.

As Mitt Romney said, "Let Detroit Die"

[redrum]

File bankruptcy ya assholes!!

I'm glad the Republicans are stalling.

The union needs a foot in the ass too.

[Rock N' Rollin' Man]

Letting the big three automakers would send a fine message that the government will not reward losers, bankruptcy would let them restructure which they severely need to do, maybe copy the European model, small cars, affordable, etc. the majority of Americans did not want a bank bailout nor now with this bailout.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/econo...utomakers_poll/

[ally]

Good points.

I sure as hell don't want any more of our heard-earned money going to bail out companies that are simply going to continue screwing us. And I bet you anything that's exactly what WILL happen.

Again, I feel terrible for the workers. But this plan better be to the benefit of everyone.

It's a tough one. I suppose there are no guarantee's no matter what. I do think however that the auto industry needs it and it would be a disaster if the industry went down because it didn't get help.

A couple of things that I think all of America needs to remember,

1. The original Chrysler bail out worked and the country got it's money back plus interest.

2. There's just no denying that when shit hit's the fan, America leads. No other country has the capacity and the will to do it. I'm talking over and above the auto bail out plan. America has alway's stepped up to the plate when bad times have taken hold and I think it will be the case again. Not just your government, I mean you the people. In that, I have plenty of faith

[Rock Action]

Letting the big three automakers would send a fine message that the government will not reward losers, bankruptcy would let them restructure which they severely need to do, maybe copy the European model, small cars, affordable, etc. the majority of Americans did not want a bank bailout nor now with this bailout.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/econo...utomakers_poll/

Well, our cars already look 'European" and there's tons of small shit. No more Mr. Bean cars, please.

What we DO have is the technology to make ANY size vehicle more efficient. Why hasn't it been done? Big oil, of course! While driving a crackerbox is fine if you live in the city and/or have a very small family, there is a legitimate need for larger vehicles under certain circumstances. But I repeat-the technology to make them vastly more efficient is there. Let's work on THAT too.

Shit like Expeditions, Hummers and the like is ridiculous though. Nobody NEEDS those monsters.

[Rock N' Rollin' Man]

Well, our cars already look 'European" and there's tons of small shit. No more Mr. Bean cars, please.

What we DO have is the technology to make ANY size vehicle more efficient. Why hasn't it been done? Big oil, of course! While driving a crackerbox is fine if you live in the city and/or have a very small family, there is a legitimate need for larger vehicles under certain circumstances. But I repeat-the technology to make them vastly more efficient is there. Let's work on THAT too.

Shit like Expeditions, Hummers and the like is ridiculous though. Nobody NEEDS those monsters.

Well not the european model exactly just tone down on the hummers, I don't want the "bugs" back to significant numbers as well. We do have the technology but big oil companies are the predominant investor in this and they are taking baby steps in actually using it. They own the coal mines, wind farms, etc.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Rock N' Rollin' Man

[Rock Action]

Well not the european model exactly just tone down on the hummers, I don't want the "bugs" back to significant numbers as well. We do have the technology but oil is the predominant investor in this and they are taking baby steps in this. They own the coal mines, wind farms, etc.

We're on the same page then.

The oil industry has the car industry by the gonads. And they're both going down because of it. Serves 'em right.

Meanwhile, while they dawdle around with all this "new technology", there are already existing technologies that have been around since the 70's. But they're being suppressed. Granted, an alternate to gasoline is the ultimate goal, but in the meantime why not just use LESS gas? It's not rocket science. It will be decades before an alternative fuel car is practical and affordable. Face it, folks.