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SteveAJones

Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

5,602 posts in this topic

Sam G. contributes:

Hey there

this is fairly well known but interesting nevertheless. This article does not dispute the potency of Zeppelins music but perhaps some of their creative merit.

THE THIEVING MAGPIES:

Jimmy Page's Dubious Recording Legacy

Part 2

By Will Shade

In July 1968, the Yardbirds finally threw in the towel. Relf and McCarty made the fatal decision that heavy, guitar-dominated music was on the way out. They formed the art rock/progressive band, Renaissance. McCarty is still rueful, yet bemused, about the path he chose to follow. He has since reformed the Yardbirds several times. The latest configuration, with Chris Dreja, toured America and Europe in 2000. They do an incredible version of "Dazed and Confused," seguing straight from a note perfect "Still I'm Sad." It would seem that McCarty and Dreja feel some right to the song.

Relf and McCarty's foray into prog rock was short lived. They released only one album with Renaissance. A second Renaissance LP was half done before they packed it in and John Hawken took it upon himself to locate other musicians to finish it. Keith Relf apparently realized the error of his ways, forming a heavy metal band in the mid-70s. Their one and only album, the self-titled Armageddon, is one of the great lost classics. It easily stands cheek by jowl with his former bandmate's work in Led Zeppelin.

Chris Dreja was initially slated to be the bass player in Page's new lineup, but bowed out gracefully once a more enthusiastic replacement was found. Page obviously made the right choice. He walked away with a stockpile of songs, including heavy metal's nascent anthem, "Dazed and Confused."

The stalwart Jimmy Page soon assembled a new band, which still called itself the Yardbirds. Comprised of Page, fellow session man John Paul Jones on bass, drummer John Bonham and vocalist Robert Plant, they fulfilled the original band's final contractual obligations, touring Sweden in September 1968. Contrary to accepted facts, the band was not known as the New Yardbirds at the time. Scandinavian ads billed them as either the Yardbirds or Yardbirds featuring Jimmy Page.

Now back to the name "Yardbirds" itself. Chris Dreja recently revealed an incredible fact to Yardbirds historian Greg Russo. The document McCarty and Relf signed was to authorize Page and Dreja to fill out a Yardbirds group to satisfy the Scandinavian dates only. Page and Dreja had the name, even when Dreja left the band.

When Chris Dreja found out that manager Peter Grant was sending the group out to tour England (October 18-19) under the name, the ex-Yardbird filed a "cease and desist" order against Page and Grant to stop them from using said name. The name change was announced in the October 19, 1968 issue of DISC Magazine. Dreja's order caused the name change! Page has never owned the name.

Back in England, the band finally dropped the old moniker and entered the studio to record their eponymous debut album.

Amusingly enough, the name Led Zeppelin itself was not an original one. In May 1966, Jeff Beck was growing disenchanted with the Yardbirds. He and Jimmy Page entered the studio to record a number of tracks along with John Paul Jones and the Who's great drummer, Keith Moon. Moon's bandmate, John Entwistle, was also involved in some capacity. Apocryphal legend says the recording session went so well that the four musicians discussed forming a band. Moon and Entwistle were dissatisfied with Pete Townshend's increasing dictatorial grip on the Who. They were quite keen on the idea as were Page and Beck. They bantered back and forth over what would be a fitting epithet for the band. Someone said they would "go over like a lead balloon." Entwistle's rejoinder was to the affect that the band should be called "lead zeppelin." Moon brayed with delight. Page filed the name away in that steel trap that serves as a brain. One of the songs recorded at this session, "Beck's Bolero," figures into the scheme of things at a later point.

Exhilarated by the experience, Page realized the unit would need a dynamic vocalist. One of those approached was the Small Face's diminutive, yet powerful singer, Steve Marriott. Page was quickly rebuffed by the Small Faces' management, which had shady underworld connections. Jimmy Page was asked if he could "play guitar with broken fingers" or words to that affect. Needless to say, Page never contacted Marriott. Marriott's work with the Small Faces would figure into the Led Zeppelin saga, though.

Page returned to the Yardbirds until the summer of 1968. As already documented, he formed a new unit, which became known as Led Zeppelin. Once the tour of Scandinavia was over, the band entered the studio to record their first LP in the fall of 1968. Led Zeppelin's self-titled debut was recorded in under thirty hours and it shows in the lack of originality.

Jeff Beck in the mean time had formed his first solo band. The Jeff Beck Group took the Yardbirds' formula to its logical conclusion, i.e. loud and hard psychedelic blues mutating into what we now call heavy metal. This crackerjack unit was comprised of Beck on lead guitar, Steampacket's Rod Stewart on vocals, Birds' guitarist Ron Wood on bass and Mick Waller on drums. They recorded what is arguably the very first heavy metal album, Truth. Released in August 1968, Jimmy Page was to use his ex-bandmate's album as a veritable blueprint for Led Zeppelin's debut.

A track-by-track comparison of Truth and Led Zeppelin I is an intriguing process. Both albums had a reworking of a Yardbirds' song. The Beck album opened with a roaring, albeit less effective, version of "Shapes of Things." Led Zeppelin also used a Yardbirds' song, "Dazed and Confused." Page at this point rewrote the lyrics yet again, but he stuck strictly to the arrangement he and Yardbirds drummer Jim McCarty devised. The Led Zeppelin version is solely credited to Jimmy Page, with no mention being made of Jake Holmes. Years later, Holmes heard Led Zeppelin's version but he decided not to pursue any legal action.

Both albums also contained a traditional English folk song. Beck's LP had a lovely acoustic arrangement of "Greensleeves." He didn't take any credit for the song. Page, on the other hand, showcased his companion piece to "White Summer." The song was called "Black Mountainside." It is credited solely to Page, yet humorously enough it is a centuries old tune. He probably picked it up from Bert Jansch, who is one of Page's primary acoustic influences. Further, Jansch had been playing the song for years, using its original title, "Black Waterside." He never took credit for the song. Jimmy Page, however, boldly stamped his name on the tune. As a side note, Davey Graham probably devised the D-A-D-G-A-D tuning used on "Black Waterside" and on "White Summer." Annie Briggs, another influence on Page, was also known to do a version of "Black Waterside."

This contrasting of heavy songs with light acoustic numbers was to become Led Zeppelin's trademark. Yet the Jeff Beck Group did it first and to better affect. Beck is as dazzling a guitar player as Jimmy Page, yet he is far more precise and capable of restraint. Interestingly, Jeff Beck's solo debut contained a rock 'n roll interpretation of Ravel's "Bolero." Entitled "Beck's Bolero," the piece came from the aborted 1966 supergroup session that had found Beck, Page, John Paul Jones and Keith Moon collaborating. Page provided some propulsive acoustic rhythm work upon which Jeff Beck overlaid stinging lead guitar. The song is once again credited only to Jimmy Page. Beck and Page have feuded over the songwriting rights in numerous interviews. To this day, Beck insists he came up with the arrangement. After all, it wasn't called "Page's Bolero."

Strangely, this is what Jimmy Page himself had to say about the song in a Trouser Press article, (October 1977, number 22 "Paging the Yardbirds" part two of a three part interview with Dave Schulps):

"Keith Relf had a melody on tape and we used that as the main part of the song. I don't think that Beck actually came in on the backing tracks - he just did the overdubs and wrote the central section - the riffy bridge," Page said. It is left up to you, gentle reader, to make up your own mind as to where the origins of this song truly lie.

Truth also contained a version of the Muddy Waters classic, "You Shook Me." For some reason, Page also decided to include this song on Led Zeppelin's first album. While the song is properly accredited to its author, Willie Dixon, Jeff Beck was less than enthusiastic upon hearing Led Zeppelin's demo. With Truth still in the charts, he was unable to understand Page's decision to record the song for Led Zeppelin I. As recounted in the Led Zeppelin biography, Hammer of the Gods, Beck's eyes teared with rage as he demanded, "Jim, why?" Page just shrugged sheepishly, unable to explain why he wanted to upstage his former bandmate.

A rewrite of Eddie Cochran's rockabilly classic "Nervous Breakdown" appeared on Led Zeppelin's first album. Entitled "Communication Breakdown," this interpretation made no mention of Cochran, being credited to Bonham/Jones/Page.

Annie Briggs' fingerprints were all over another song on Led Zeppelin I. Her original, "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You," was appropriated by the foursome with the credits reading Bredon (her real name)/Page/Plant. Whether Page and Plant added anything to the song is debatable.

Led Zeppelin I closed with the ultimate pastiche. "How Many More Times" opens with a bass riff that came straight from the Yardbirds' reworking of "Smokestack Lightning." Lyrically it is comprised of Howlin' Wolf's "How Many More Years," Albert King's "The Hunter" and bits of Gary Farr and the T-Bones' "How Many More Times." Further, there was a direct quote of Jimmy Rodgers' pop hit, "Kisses Sweeter Than Wine." Page's solo is Jeff Beck's solo from the Yardbirds classic, "Shapes of Things," slowed down to a crawl.

A listen to the Yardbirds Last Rave-up in L.A. bootleg reveals an interesting fact. "Smokestack Lightning" has the bolero section from "Beck's Bolero." Page also used this on "How Many More Times." The only thing original about the song is Page's violin bowing. "How Many More Times" is credited to Bonham/Jones/Page, though.

During 1969, Led Zeppelin toured continually. They recorded their sophomore effort in various studios while they were on the road. The resulting album is uneven and shows less originality than its predecessor.

"Whole Lotta Love" opens Led Zeppelin II. As mentioned earlier, Steve Marriott and the Small Faces figure into the Led Zeppelin saga. That mod foursome were known for a killer live version of the Muddy Waters "You Need Love." The following paragraph is from "Small Faces: The Young Mods' Forgotten Story" by Paolo Hewitt (1995, Acid Jazz Books).

'A few years later, one of the LP's outstanding tracks, the Marriott/Lane 'You Need Loving,' cropped up again to create rock history, albeit in a different format. '"Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin was nicked off that album,' Marriott pointed out. 'Percy Plant was a big fan. He used to be at all The Small Faces gigs. We did a gig with The Yardbirds which he was at and Jimmy Page asked me what that number was we did. "'You Need Loving'," I said, "it's a Muddy Waters thing" which it really is, so they both knew it, and Percy used to come to the gigs whenever we played in Kidderminster or Stowbridge, where he came from. He was always saying he was going to get this group together. He was another nuisance. He kept coming into the dressing room, just another little Mod kid. We used to say, "That kid's here again." Anyway we used to play this number and it became a stock opener after that album. After we broke up they took it and revamped it. Good luck to them. It was only old Percy who'd had his eyes on it. He sang it the same, phrased it the same, even the stops at the end were the same, they just put a different rhythm to it.' He laughs. 'For years and years I would hear it come on the radio while driving in America, and I would think, "Go on, my son," until one day I thought, "Fucking hell, that's us, that is. The bastards!"'

"Whole Lotta Love" is obviously, as Steve Marriott pointed, a direct nick of the Small Faces take on "You Need Love." The lyrics are basically the same as the Muddy Waters version. Further, Robert Plant's vocal stylings are indeed modeled directly on Marriott's delivery. One listen to the Small Faces version will lay any doubt aside. Unfortunately, the Small Faces songwriting credits made no mention of Willie Dixon. Of course, neither did Led Zeppelin.

Interestingly enough, Willie Dixon's own daughter, Shirley, brought it to her father's attention. As reported in the October 8, 1994's edition of The Los Angeles Times by Steve Hochman, Shirley Dixon first heard Led Zeppelin's version when she was thirteen. She played it for her father, who agreed it was his song. Willie Dixon was receiving no royalties from it. In 1985, Dixon sued Led Zeppelin for royalties to "Whole Lotta Love." The case was settled out of court two years later, with a generous settlement to Willie Dixon. Today, Shirley Dixon heads the Blues Heaven Foundation (established by her father), which helps blues artists recover their royalties and rights.

Another blues classic on Led Zeppelin II became famous as "The Lemon Song." Derived directly from Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor," there is also the infamous quote about squeezing lemons that comes from Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues." Chester Burnett, a.k.a. Howlin' Wolf, received no credit for "The Lemon Song." In the early '70s, Arc Music sued Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement. The suit was settled out of court.

The album closed with a song credited to Page/Plant, "Bring It On Home." Discerning listeners realized it was the old Sonny Boy Williamson song of the same name, albeit with a furious Page solo. Once again, the song's author, Willie Dixon, won a settlement.

Led Zeppelin III found Page still delving into his bag of Yardbirds leftovers. An album track, "Tangerine," was one Page had worked on with the Yardbirds in the spring of 1968. Page claimed authorship of the entire song, including the lyrics. The Yardbirds had never copyrighted the piece, which made it easy for Page to usurp it in its entirety. The flower-child verses smack of Keith Relf, though. "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" is basically an original song with Jones/Page/Plant being listed as the song's authors. However, the intro is lifted from "The Waggoner's Tale" by Bert Jansch.

1971's Led Zeppelin IV showed the band to be up to their old tricks. The drum intro to "Rock 'n Roll" was a direct lift from Little Richard's "Keep A-Knocking." One listen to that early nugget will prove the point. Further, elements of the solo from the old Yardbirds warhorse "Train Kept A-Rollin" show up in "Rock 'n Roll."

But it is that holiest of Holy Grails, "Stairway To Heaven," that will shock the faithful. On one of Led Zeppelin's early tours, they had opened for the California art-rock group, Spirit. In the liner notes to the reissue of Spirit's 1968 eponymous debut, the band's guitarist Randy California mentions the fact that Jimmy Page took special interest in an original entitled "Taurus." There is no doubt that Page appropriated the opening guitar lines note for note on "Stairway To Heaven." Further, the chord progression in "Stairway To Heaven" is incredibly similar to a song by the Chocolate Watch Band, "And She's Lonely." The Yardbirds played with the Chocolate Watch Band during Page's tenure. It would be quite ironic if he did indeed lift the chords from the Chocolate Watch Band. The Chocolate Watch Band, to those in the know, was the ultimate Yardbirds clone. Wouldn't it be fitting that a former Yardbirds guitarist ripped off something from a band that based an entire career around sounding like that famed quintet?

Led Zeppelin IV also found the band tackling a Memphis Minnie original, "When The Levee Breaks." In this case, Memphis Minnie is credited, but so are the four members of Led Zeppelin. What they contributed to the song is once again debatable.

Led Zeppelin continued to appropriate songs throughout the rest of their career, albeit with less frequency. For the most part, the songs examined in this article are the most notorious cases of Led Zeppelin lifting others artistic works.

Is this hair-splitting? Isn't rock and roll all about taking influences, warping and twisting them until they come out sounding new? Yes and no. Rock and roll's great idiot savant, Elvis Presley, married blues to country, creating the 20th century's most popular form of music. And while his first single at Sun Studios, a breath-taking version of Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup's "That's All Right Mama," doesn't sound anything like the sluggish original it is still properly credited to the rightful author. Same goes for all three of the Beatles covers of Carl Perkins songs. Taking a stray riff is one thing. Appropriating an entire song's music and lyrics while listing yourself as the author is quite another.

________________________________

In the summer of 2000, two Yardbirds CD's from the Jimmy Page era were released. The first release was a limited edition of the famed Live Yardbirds Featuring Jimmy Page issued by Mooreland Street Records. Contrary to rumors, Jim McCarty and Chris Dreja are quite content with the quality of the show as is Keith Relf's family. Page had this album surpressed twice before in the '70's.

The CDs sold out quickly. Apparently Mooreland Street Records had dealings with Page's representatives. Russ Garrett, head of the company, also runs a Yardbirds fan forum on the Internet. He has alluded to legal scuffling with "800-pound gorillas in buisness suits" on the website. Garrett would not respond to repeated requests for an interview.

The other recent Yardbirds release was issued by New Millenium. It contains the legendary final studio sessions from New York City in April 1968. Called Cumular Limit, the CD had fans salivating. This was especially true, because McCarty hinted in a interview from the spring of 2000, that a take on "Tangerine" would be included. The Yardbirds version was called "Knowing That I'm Losing You." However, that track does not appear on the new release. "I was advised that one of the members wasn't exactly delirious with the album," Carlton Sandercock at New Millenium said. Considering that Keith Relf was tragically electrocuted in 1976 and that both McCarty and Dreja participated in the CD's liner notes, it doesn't take much detective work to figure out which member is unhappy with the release. Asked what happened to the inclusion of "Knowing That I'm Losing You on the CD, Sandercock would not go into details. "Unfortunately, one of the songs was not released," he simply said.

Cumular Limit also has a live version of "Dazed and Confused" from French television in the spring of '68. For once, the song is credited properly, reading Jake Holmes; arr. Yardbirds. "I would really like to release Jake Holmes' original album," Sandercock related. "We can't seem to find him, though." Re-issuing The Above Ground Sound of Jake Holmes would undoubtedly unsnarl a tangled web.

The evidence is laid out. It is up to you, gentle reader, to assess whether Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin deserve the prestige they have been accorded. Now, this may appear to be nothing but gratuitous Page-bashing. Far from it. To this day, Jimmy Page is unacknowledged as one of the two the greatest psychedelic guitar players ever. The other one is not Jimi Hendrix, but rather the aforementioned Syd Barrett. Page's criminally underrated work with the Yardbirds and on countless sessions (take note of his hypnotic work on Donovan's "Sunshine Superman") reveal him to have set the standard for lysergic discord par excellence.

Further, in light of the fact that Page played on 60% of everything released in Britian between 1963-66 and then adding his work with the Yardbirds and Led Zeppelin, he is undoubtedly the most recorded major guitarist ever. His fretwork itself is never in question. Even on the lightweight session material he appears on, Page's guitar playing itself is impeccable (which is amazing if you consider that the majority of those forgotten groups should not have been within ear-shot of a studio). But it his habit for putting his name on others materials that is being examined here, not his guitar sorcery.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Will Shade is and has always been anti-Page, anti-Zeppelin, but mostly anti-Page. If you read his words closely it is just a thinly-disguised character assasination. To hear him tell it, Jimmy Page never had an original thought pop into his head. In Shade's view, Jeff Beck is the world's most remarkable guitarist and The Yardbirds possess influence over the course of modern music they never attained in reality.

I'm highly familiar with author Greg Russo, having directly contributed to the concert chronology which appears in the worthwhile book 'Yardbirds -The Ultimate Rave-Up!' (3rd edition). I don't have anything negative to say about him in this forum.

Insofar as this so called cease and desist order that Chris Dreja alegedly claims to have filed against Jimmy Page, therby compelling him to change the name, be it known that

said document has never been entered as evidence in any public forum.

You can fool some of the people some of the time. You can't fool me. I've been to the mountaintop. Now I'm waving my magic wand at you.

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Solar replies:

(SteveAJones @ Dec 15 2007, 05:31 AM)

Insofar as this so called cease and desist order that Chris Dreja alegedly claims to have filed against Jimmy Page, therby compelling him to change the name, be it known that

said document has never been entered as evidence in any public forum.

Edited by SteveAJones

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No, no, no! Stay with me on this. For starters, here's the Scandanavian Tour:

September 7 1968 Sat Gladsaxe, Denmark Teen Club Box 45

Billed as "Yard Birds", support from Fourways and Bodies

September 7 1968 Sat Brondby, Denmark Brondby Pop Club Showtime 19:30

Billed with The Day Of Phoenix, The Eyes, Ham Norregards-Hallen

September 8 1968 Sun Roskilde, Denmark Fjordvilla Club Paramount Showtime 18:30;

Support from (Sweden's) The Ladybirds and Beauty Fools

September 8 1968 Sun Falster, Denmark Raventlow Parken Showtime 19:00;

Support from The Beatniks and (Sweden's) Ladybirds

September 9 1968 Mon Page is interviewed by the Danish newspaper 'Aktuelt'

September 12 1968 Thu Stockholm, Sweden Gronalund Tivoli

September 13 1968 Fri Stockholm, Sweden Inside Club

Support from Hep Stars

September 14 1968 Sat Knivsta, Uppsala, Sweden Angby Parkdans Show

Billed with Kenneth Staggs, Hayati Kafe

September 15 1968 Sun Gothenborg, Sweden Stjarnscenen Liseburg

September 17 1968 Tue Malmo, Sweden Klub Bongo

September 20 1968 Fri Stockholm, Sweden

September 21 1968 Sat Stockholm, Sweden

September 22 1968 Sun Bergen, Norway

September 23 1968 Mon Oslo, Norway

September 24 1968 Tue Oslo, Norway

--------------------

Are you still with me? Here's the rest of 1968 following the Scandanavian Tour:

October 4 1968 Fri Newcastle, England The Mayfair

Led Zeppelin UK date

October 10 1968 Thu St. John's Wood, London, England Abbey Road Studio

3 Abbey Road NW8 9AY

Page/Plant/Bonham/Jones lineup conducts its second album recording session…two takes of 'Tribute To Bert Burns'

October ?? 1968

Chris Dreja allegedly files a ceast and desist order against Page and Grant for using The Yardbirds name

October 18 1968 Fri London, England Marquee Club

Led Zeppelin UK date; billed incorrectly as "The British Debut of The Yardbirds", support from Sleepy

October 19 1968 Sat Liverpool, England Liverpool University

Reported in the press as last appearance of Yardbirds…Page will stay to form Led Zeppelin

October ?? - ?? 1968 Barnes, London, England Olympic Studios

'Led Zeppelin' album is recorded after a total of just 30 hours in the studio

October 25 1968 Fri Surrey, England Surrey University - Great Hall Battersea Park Road

Debut performance billed as Led Zeppelin

(but there IS a poster billing this event as New Yardbirds featuring Jimmy Page)

October 26 1968 Sat Bristol, England Bristol Boxing Club

Led Zeppelin UK date; Support from The Deviants

November 9 1968 Sat Camden, London, England Roundhouse

Chalk Farm Road N22

Led Zeppelin UK date; billed as "Yardbirds now known as Led Zeppelin"; John Lee Hooker, Deviants, John James, Tyres, & DJ Jeff Dexter

November 16 1968 Sat Manchester, England College of Science & Technology

Led Zeppelin UK date

November 23 1968 Sat Sheffield, England Sheffield University

Led Zeppelin UK date

November 29 1968 Fri Richmond, Surrey, England Athletic Club

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 10 1968 Tue London, England Marquee Led Zeppelin UK date; billed as "Led Zeppelin (nee The Yardbirds); support from Bakerloo Blues Line (performance contract signed November 27th 1968)

December 13 1968 Fri Canterbury, England Canterbury Bridge Club

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 16 1968 Mon Bath, England Pavilion

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 19 1968 Thu Exeter, England City Hall

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 20 1968 Fri Wood Green, London, England Fishmongers Arms

287 High Road N22

Led Zeppelin UK date; billed as "Led Zeppelin (formerly Yardbirds)"; support from Closed Cell Sponge

December 22 1968 Sun London, England Heathrow International Airport Flight departure to North America for Led Zeppelin's first tour

December 23 1968 Mon Los Angeles, CA USA Los Angeles International Airport

Flight arrival from London (Jones and his wife disembarked in Newark, NJ for a few days)

December 23 1968 Mon Los Angeles, CA USA

Page, Plant and Bonham enjoy an off day

December 24 1968 Tue Los Angeles, CA USA

Page, Plant and Bonham enjoy an off day

December 25 1968 Wed Los Angeles, CA USA

Page, Plant and Bonham enjoy an off day

December 26 1968 Thu Denver, CO USA Denver Auditorium

First North American Tour; opened for Vanilla Fudge, additional support from Spirit

December 27 1968 Fri Seattle, WA USA Seattle Center Coliseum

First North American Tour; non-billed opener for Vanilla Fudge

December 28 1968 Sat Vancouver, BC, Canada PNE - Argodome

First North American Tour; opened for Vanilla Fudge

December 29 1968 Tue Portland, OR USA Civic Auditorium

First North American Tour; non-billed opener for Vanilla Fudge

December 30 1968 Mon Spokane, WA USA Gonzaga University - JFK Pavillion First North American Tour; opened for Vanilla Fudge…performed on the basketball court in

the gymnasium

December 31 1968 Tue Seattle, WA USA Seattle Airport

Led Zeppelin travel through an all-night blizzard to reach the airport for their flight to Los Angeles only to find it is closed

Now hang on, because I'm going to educate you!

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Perhaps one day I'll post the ten page thread that was generated in a Yardbirds forum about seven years ago between myself and the Will Shade bridgade concerning if a ceast and desist order necessitated Jimmy Page to rename his band. For tonight, I

will simply cut to the chase:

October 18 1968 Fri London, England Marquee Club

This was Led Zeppelin's second UK date. They were billed INCORRECTLY as "The British Debut of The New Yardbirds".

You must understand the difference between what you are actually called and how you are billed. In 1968, you did not always have control over how you are billed, as you could not possibly ensure every promoter on the tour promoted his gigs correctly, and with integrity.

The Yardbirds were one of Britain's biggest bands, having toured extensively for eight

years and featuring Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page. If your a promoter, how

will you advertise, as the unheard of Led Zeppelin or the well-reknowned Yardbirds?

Before I go any further, I want to remind you we are simply examining if a cease and desist order necessitated Jimmy Page to change the name of his band.

It is a fact that graphic artist George Hardie met with Jimmy and Peter that afternoon at the Marquee prior to that night's performance to discuss JIMMY's concept for the cover of the first Led Zeppelin album. Jimmy showed George the famous image of the Hindenburg in flames, and explained how he'd like it stylized. George subsequently produced the cover image as it is known today.

Yardbirds bassist Chris Dreja, whom had accompanied Page and Grant to see Robert Plant perform in the Midlands, had already decided not to join Page's new lineup, but he was also a photographer and agreed to shoot the photos of the band which appear on the back cover.

Let's stop right here for a moment. Why in the hell would Jimmy Page wish to retain the

name Yardbirds or any variation there of when he has George Hardie working on first album cover graphics which depict a Zeppelin? If Chris Dreja had any legitimate legal

concerns pertaining to Jimmy's band why in the hell did he shoot the photos for the back cover?

As you continue onward, you'll see discrepancies between what the band name was, how they were billed and what the press was reporting. Peter Grant has said it was difficult in the early days to get promoters and the press to acknowledge the band's

new name. My bottom line is the assertion that Jimmy had to be compelled to change the name is ridiculous as clearly the artistic vision he had in mind for this group was completely different to what had gone before.

We can go on to debate who owns the name (please God, not tonight), but that is a separate point of contention. It all comes back to what I believe to be an imaginary

influence over the course of rock music, and Led Zeppelin in particular, which simply is not supported by the evidence.

October 19 1968 Sat Liverpool, England Liverpool University

Reported IN THE PRESS as last appearance of Yardbirds…Page will stay to form Led Zeppelin

October ?? - ?? 1968 Barnes, London, England Olympic Studios

'Led Zeppelin' album is recorded after a total of just 30 hours in the studio

October 25 1968 Fri Surrey, England Surrey University - Great Hall Battersea Park Road

BILLED in the press as Led Zeppelin

(BUT there IS a poster billing this event as New Yardbirds featuring Jimmy Page)

October 26 1968 Sat Bristol, England Bristol Boxing Club

Led Zeppelin UK date; Support from The Deviants

November 9 1968 Sat Camden, London, England Roundhouse

Chalk Farm Road N22

Led Zeppelin UK date; billed as "Yardbirds now known as Led Zeppelin"; John Lee Hooker, Deviants, John James, Tyres, & DJ Jeff Dexter

November 16 1968 Sat Manchester, England College of Science & Technology

Led Zeppelin UK date

November 23 1968 Sat Sheffield, England Sheffield University

Led Zeppelin UK date

November 29 1968 Fri Richmond, Surrey, England Athletic Club

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 10 1968 Tue London, England Marquee Led Zeppelin UK date; billed as "Led Zeppelin (nee The Yardbirds); support from Bakerloo Blues Line (performance contract signed November 27th 1968)

December 13 1968 Fri Canterbury, England Canterbury Bridge Club

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 16 1968 Mon Bath, England Pavilion

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 19 1968 Thu Exeter, England City Hall

Led Zeppelin UK date

December 20 1968 Fri Wood Green, London, England Fishmongers Arms

287 High Road N22

Led Zeppelin UK date; billed as "Led Zeppelin (formerly Yardbirds)"; support from Closed Cell Sponge

December 22 1968 Sun London, England Heathrow International Airport Flight departure to North America for Led Zeppelin's first tour

December 23 1968 Mon Los Angeles, CA USA Los Angeles International Airport

Flight arrival from London (Jones and his wife disembarked in Newark, NJ for a few days)

December 23 1968 Mon Los Angeles, CA USA

Page, Plant and Bonham enjoy an off day

December 24 1968 Tue Los Angeles, CA USA

Page, Plant and Bonham enjoy an off day

December 25 1968 Wed Los Angeles, CA USA

Page, Plant and Bonham enjoy an off day

December 26 1968 Thu Denver, CO USA Denver Auditorium

First North American Tour; opened for Vanilla Fudge, additional support from Spirit

December 27 1968 Fri Seattle, WA USA Seattle Center Coliseum

First North American Tour; non-billed opener for Vanilla Fudge

December 28 1968 Sat Vancouver, BC, Canada PNE - Argodome

First North American Tour; opened for Vanilla Fudge

December 29 1968 Tue Portland, OR USA Civic Auditorium

First North American Tour; non-billed opener for Vanilla Fudge

December 30 1968 Mon Spokane, WA USA Gonzaga University - JFK Pavillion First North American Tour; opened for Vanilla Fudge…performed on the basketball court in

the gymnasium

December 31 1968 Tue Seattle, WA USA Seattle Airport

Led Zeppelin travel through an all-night blizzard to reach the airport for their flight to Los Angeles only to find it is closed

If my post requires clarification I'll follow up. Right now I need to call it a night.

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(SamG @ Dec 15 2007, 05:44 AM)

But let's face that facts, all music is a direct lineage to something else, however I am sure that Jimmy Page took a few publishing liberties when it came to kick starting L.Z's career.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Insofar as this so called cease and desist order that Chris Dreja alegedly claims to have filed against Jimmy Page, therby compelling him to change the name, be it known that

said document has never been entered as evidence in any public forum.

Here's what cracks me up about the alleged "cease and desist order":

CHRIS DREJA HAD NO LEGAL AUTHORITY -- AND NO INCENTIVE -- TO FILE A LAWSUIT!!

1. Relf & McCarty gave permission to Page & Dreja to use the "Yardbirds" name through September 1968.

2. that agreement expired on September 30.

3. therefore, Dreja's rights to file a lawsuit also expired on September 30.

Why would Dreja file a lawsuit in October? He no longer had permission to use the Yardbirds name anyway!! That's like Pete Best filing lawsuits on behalf of The Beatles.

The only "entity" that could have sued Jimmy in October 1968 was "The Yardbirds" corporation.

Besides, if Dreja wanted to sue then he would have sued in August when he was kicked out of the band. Suing in October makes no sense at all, especially when you consider the fact that Dreja took the photo on the back of the first Zep album cover!! Do you really think Jimmy would have used that photo if Dreja had sued him???

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October 19 1968 Sat Liverpool, England Liverpool University

Reported IN THE PRESS as last appearance of Yardbirds…Page will stay to form Led Zeppelin

And that's another thing. If Dreja truly did file a successful cease-and-desist order, then why were they allowed to perform as The Yardbirds on October 19? Wouldn't the press report have stated something to the effect of "Due to legal action, tonight's concert will be billed as Led Zeppelin instead of The Yardbirds..."?

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And that's another thing. If Dreja truly did file a successful cease-and-desist order, then why were they allowed to perform as The Yardbirds on October 19? Wouldn't the press report have stated something to the effect of "Due to legal action, tonight's concert will be billed as Led Zeppelin instead of The Yardbirds..."?

I think Chris Dreja means well but I also think 40 years is a lot of water under the bridge. Sometimes people think they're recalling something correctly when in fact

they're not. They've had a contentious business relationship in the past with Jimmy concerning recordings and what not. If I've learned anything over the years, sometimes the pursuit of an agenda or response to a perceived wrong trumps better judgement.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Backwards Masking on Stairway to Heaven?

Coincidence, Imagination, Perception, Inscription or Fiction?

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i already posted this elsewhere but here goes:

(I have read the following online and have not tried to confirm its authenticity yet)

There was a case brought in the US...sometime in the '80s i think...against the bands or record companies of bands of one or two heavy metal bands, including Judas Priest. There had been a few teenagers who had been heavily into their music who had gone and committed suicide. Anyway the claim was that these bands had hidden backwards messages in some tracks urging the listener to commit suicide.

As part of the defense, one particular track (it may have been of a completely different band to those who were the defendants) was played backwards to the jury. Then, the jury were given a copy of some words that could supposedly be heard in the track, then the track was played again.

The point of this was to demonstrate that, once you have been told what message can be heard in a piece of music being played backwards, it is alot easier for you to hear that message, whereas listening to the tune backwards without knowing what you're looking for will not allow you to hear words, unless there really is a hidden message that has been backwards masked (as the beatles did in some of their tracks)

In short, i have listened to Stairway To Heaven backwards with a copy of the supposed entire song's worth of backwards-masked words that are supposed to be some kind of "black mass" or something. My personal opinion is that whilst there may be a short message hidden in there, i do not agree with there being an entire song's worth in there.

On a similar note, as i also mentioned in the other thread, i have personal experience of the effects of psychosis, a mental disorder that alters your perceptions, sometimes drastically. I'm sure there are many songs that, if you listened to them backwards in that state, you'd be able to make out words that seemed to make a certain sort of sense. This is what i think happened to produce the song's worth of supposedly backwards-masked words that can be heard. When i was somewhat worse than i am now (well on the mend, thankfully), i heard different words that still made sense when listening to songs FORWARDS, so i am sure if i'd have listened to them backwards it would have blown my mind...

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Steve...I remember reading somewhere that Peter Grant and Col. Parker had some sort of discussions were Zep and Elvis would headline together in Vegas....is this true ...and if so, when was it year wise AND how do you think it would that have worked with the vocals between Robert and Elvis....thanks!!!

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In August or September 1968 John Paul Jones was hired for a session with U.K. singer P.J. Proby who was recording an album at Landsdowne Studios in London. John got

the other three members of Zeppelin in on the session as it was good money to be made. From what I recall Robert Plant's voice does not appear on that album; he was simply there. I know it may not make sense for him to have been there if he wasn't going to sing but John said Robert was there.

Then of course there is the first Led Zeppelin album, recorded in October 1968.

You must mean live recordings, right? So far as I know the one to which you refer

remains the earliest known live recording but tapes continue to surface all the time.

There was a soundboard recording of Southampton 1973 which was recently made

available.

What I'd like to know is what lead the earliest tapers to want to bootleg Led Zeppelin? This was before the 1st album was out. Maybe they were really trying to tape the main act they were opening for?

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Backwards Masking on Stairway to Heaven?

Coincidence, Imagination, Perception, Inscription or Fiction?

I've already covered that ad nauseum in other threads. My bottom line: the scandal was little more than a political agenda to censor/label music releases in the US. There is no

scientific evidence the human mind can interpret backwards-masked passages.

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i heard different words that still made sense when listening to songs FORWARDS, so i am sure if i'd have listened to them backwards it would have blown my mind...

Whenever there is a suicide it's human nature to look for a cause or a reason. In lieu of

any obvious findings... Also, as I've said before, if one looks hard enough you'll find the

devil in anything. The only thing to be gained by playing Stairway to Heaven backwards

is the opportunity to hear Jimmy playing properly. :)

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What I'd like to know is what lead the earliest tapers to want to bootleg Led Zeppelin? This was before the 1st album was out. Maybe they were really trying to tape the main act they were opening for?

They opened for Vanilla Fudge and Alice Cooper among others within a month of hitting the US. Neither, so far as I know, enjoyed the level of bootlegging that, say, the Grateful Dead did.

My opinion is we have the good fortune of them having played several nights in Los Angeles and San Francisco in January 1969, both of which had a robust taping scene.

Word was spreading fast and when they played a nearly four hour show in Boston that same month, well the rest is history. By 1973, they were already the biggest band in

the world and the tapers in the audience were there almost nightly.

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Are we really sure that the MudShark Incident was video taped by a member of Vanilla Fudge?

And if the answer is yes, did he really burned them?

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Steve...I remember reading somewhere that Peter Grant and Col. Parker had some sort of discussions were Zep and Elvis would headline together in Vegas....is this true ...and if so, when was it year wise AND how do you think it would that have worked with the vocals between Robert and Elvis....thanks!!!

There's a misunderstanding. Long story short, Col Tom Parker could not take Elvis outside of the United States on account of Tom's checkered immigration history.

So Tom Parker contacted Peter Grant in the mid 70s to casusally inquire if HE would be willing and able to manage a tour of Europe for Elvis. Discussions never went beyond this and within two years Elvis died never having performed outside of the continental

United States, with the exception of Hawaii (a U.S. state) and some loose jam

sessions while stationed in Germany.

Read the fascinating book Elvis and The Colonel for more on why Elvis' manager

never allowed him to perform overseas. Fascinating stuff.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Hi Steve - thanks for the thread. My question is - can anyone here lip-read? If so, I'd love to know what it is that Bonzo is saying (to himself, presumably) in many of the shots on the 2003 DVD. It's the section where he's wearing a headband and a rather improbable sequinned T shirt (but it was the '70s after all)!

He looks to be effing and jeffing to himself, but I'm intrigued to know if anyone can tell what he's really saying!

Cheers!

Edited by Lilith

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In August or September 1968 John Paul Jones was hired for a session with U.K. singer P.J. Proby who was recording an album at Landsdowne Studios in London. John got

the other three members of Zeppelin in on the session as it was good money to be made. From what I recall Robert Plant's voice does not appear on that album; he was simply there. I know it may not make sense for him to have been there if he wasn't going to sing but John said Robert was there.

Robert played harmonica on one track, and he may have played percussion on other tracks. (Said Jones in a 2002 interview: "Someone said, 'Oh, you need a percussionist.' I said, 'Oh, I've got this guy.' Someone said, 'Oh, he doesn't look like a session tambourine player,' and I was like, 'Oh, no, don't worry. He's great. He's really good.' (laughs) That's what we did.")

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Post Zeppelin early 80's Jimmy played STH as an instrumental at the ARMS gigs, Ive seen very little of Roberts opinion of the versions. That must have been a conflict because at the time he was constructing his solo career and avoiding the past at all costs. When he first heard it and what was his reaction?

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Hi Steve - thanks for the thread. My question is - can anyone here lip-read? If so, I'd love to know what it is that Bonzo is saying (to himself, presumably) in many of the shots on the 2003 DVD. It's the section where he's wearing a headband and a rather improbable sequinned T shirt (but it was the '70s after all)!

He looks to be effing and jeffing to himself, but I'm intrigued to know if anyone can tell what he's really saying!

Cheers!

It could be anything, but yes, he did do this effing and jeffing as you call it. On the '77 tour he shouted "Canons!", for example.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Said Jones in a 2002 interview: "Someone said, 'Oh, you need a percussionist.' I said, 'Oh, I've got this guy.' Someone said, 'Oh, he doesn't look like a session tambourine player,' and I was like, 'Oh, no, don't worry. He's great. He's really good.' (laughs) That's what we did."

I've always taken that to be a reference to John Bonham, not Robert Plant. Hmm...

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A couple of "mysteries" for Steve A. Jones (and, no I don't know the answers)

1. When Zep were in NYC, where (name of restaurant/bar) did they dine in the East Village? In the late '60s - early '70s (pre-TSRTS era), one could see rockers there.

2. Where did Zep go when they went up to Harlem to go to the clubs?

Thanks.

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Post Zeppelin early 80's Jimmy played STH as an instrumental at the ARMS gigs, Ive seen very little of Roberts opinion of the versions. That must have been a conflict because at the time he was constructing his solo career and avoiding the past at all costs. When he first heard it and what was his reaction?

As outlined below, there were very few instrumental 'Stairway to Heaven' performances

during the ARMS Benefit concerts. Note the second performance in London was actually a benefit for The Prince's Trust, but featured the same performers as the previous night.

Robert did not attend either of Jimmy's performances in London London, as he was performing in Austin and Houston Texas on those nights. He did not attend any of his performances in the US as his tour had moved on from there to England.

However, he and Jimmy did reunite for a jam on 'Treat Her Right' during Robert's encore at the Hammersmith Odeon on December 13th 1983.

September 20 1983 London, England Royal Albert Hall Kensington Gore SW7 2AP

September 21 1983 London, England Royal Albert Hall Kensington Gore SW7 2AP

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 28 1983 Dallas, TX USA Reunion Arena 777 Sports Street 75207

November 29 1983 Dallas, TX USA Reunion Arena 777 Sports Street 75207

December 1 1983 Daly City, CA USA Cow Palace 2600 Geneva Avenue 94117

December 2 1983 Daly City, CA USA Cow Palace 2600 Geneva Avenue 94117

December 3 1983 Daly City, CA USA Cow Palace 2600 Geneva Avenue 94117

December 5 1983 Inglewood, CA USA The Forum 3900 Manchester Boulevard 90306

December 6 1983 Inglewood, CA USA The Forum 3900 Manchester Boulevard 90306

December 8 1983 New York, NY USA Madison Square Garden 2 Penn Plaza 10121

December 9 1983 New York, NY USA Madison Square Garden 2 Penn Plaza 10121

Edited by SteveAJones

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