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SteveAJones

Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

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And Steve,another issue...I've always thought that Robert's feelings about the band must have been hit hard when Jimmy and Jonesy didn't attend Karac's funeral(I think John Paul was incommunicado at the time,travelling across the states).Robert supposedly said to Bonzo that perhaps they(Page and jones)weren't as good friends with him as he had thought and that maybe they didn't respect him as much as he respected them.Any thoughts on this?

Richard Cole and John Bonham accompanied Robert on his flight home from New Orleans to the Midlands, with a brief layover in London. John Paul Jones did have his family with

him in the states for sightseeing. Peter Grant elected to remain in New Orleans to work

the cancellation of the tour's remaining dates.

Jimmy and JPJ did not attend Karac's funeral service and this is a highly sensitive topic. While I've never spoken to Robert concerning his thoughts on their absence; those who have discussed it with him told me he was deeply hurt by it.

It's inexplicable, really, for them not to have attended, as I've always believed the sudden loss of a child is one of life's cruelest tragedies. Certainly, Robert could have found some comfort in their support, however I realize everyone deals with grief of this magnitude in their own way. For whatever it's worth, bear in mind Jimmy and John Paul Jones seldom socialized with Robert and Bonzo, or between themselves, if off the road. Ultimately, in my opinion, neither excuses nor condemnations should be made.

In conclusion, note Jimmy and Peter Grant met in London soonafter and immediately put the band on indefinate hiatus to afford Robert an opportunity to grieve. More than a year passed before Led Zeppelin made a public appearance and resumed studio activity.

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Thanks for your information and insight.I wonder if Jimmy and Jonesy felt it would be inappropriate for them to attend,given the way they rarely socialized outside of recording and touring.They are both famously reticent,and English to boot.They may have genuinely thought that Robert would prefer having just his family and closest friends there,and not the whole of Led Zeppelin and the media circus which that might cause.Additionally,we know that Jimmy was in a mess by this time.Perhaps it felt like too much to deal with.In any event, given that it seems pretty certain that Robert wanted them there,it's very sad that they didn't go,and this matter seems to me to be a rarely mentioned "elephant in the living room" when the frictions that have arisen between them are discussed.

It is so heartening that in spite of all of this,on top of the whole "don't forget my phone number next time" episode,thousands of other things I'll never know about and a combined age of about 224 (including Jason),they've managed to stun the world again.

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It is so heartening that in spite of all of this,on top of the whole "don't forget my phone number next time" episode,thousands of other things I'll never know about and a combined age of about 224 (including Jason),they've managed to stun the world again.

Agreed. I think they performed to the absolute best of their abilities, with the exception

of Jimmy who was still hindered to some extent by his injured finger. Collectively, these guys have gone most everywhere and gotten the t-shirt about five thousand times yet

they still put their all into it.

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Jimmy refers to the thieves as "those two bitches" because they were two women who were staying as guests in his home at the time. They helped themselves to several of the 1980 soundboard tapes which were subsequently released by bootleggers.

Steve there was only one Bitch and her male partner and they stole many more tapes than the 1980 shows. Jimmy actually calls her the bootleg Queen.

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Here's a Led Zeppelin bit of trivia which really isn't a mystery but seems to follow along the lines of Steve's "mysteries" - I really don't care about the answer that much but it seems like it would be good to include in Steve's book or whatever he's planning.

During the Sabbath Heaven & Hell tour Ronnie James Dio once said that members of Zeppelin (at least Page & Bonham, but maybe Page, Plant & Bonham or even all four) came to their soundcheck or was backstage before Sabbath went on and Bonzo started playing Bill Wards drums. Ronnie said it was awesome. When did this happen?

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Steve there was only one Bitch and her male partner and they stole many more tapes than the 1980 shows. Jimmy actually calls her the bootleg Queen.

I'm sure he calls them a lot of names, and rightfully so, but in at least one retelling it was "those two bitches".

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I have always wondered if Jimmy would've recorded their first rehearsal. Imagine hearing the first notes Zep ever played together. My sneaking suspicion is yes, of course he did - why wouldn't he want to hear back later what they sounded like.

I recall in the Peter Grant book (too tired to dig it out now) his mentioning that he or Jimmy took live tapes of the band for them to listen to when they landed their record deal. It was either recordings of their first gigs or possibly rehearsals.....sidenote: obviously this was long before Gonzaga 12/68 so apparently Jimmy has earlier recordings then we do!

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I have always wondered if Jimmy would've recorded their first rehearsal. Imagine hearing the first notes Zep ever played together. My sneaking suspicion is yes, of course he did - why wouldn't he want to hear back later what they sounded like.

I recall in the Peter Grant book (too tired to dig it out now) his mentioning that he or Jimmy took live tapes of the band for them to listen to when they landed their record deal. It was either recordings of their first gigs or possibly rehearsals.....sidenote: obviously this was long before Gonzaga 12/68 so apparently Jimmy has earlier recordings then we do!

Their first studio session for 'Led Zeppelin' was held Sept 27th 1968 at Abbey Road Studios. They recorded 'Babe I'm Gonna Leave You' & 'You Shook Me'. Their second

session was October 10 1968...two takes of 'Tribute to Bert Burns', among others.

The album sessions were completed by the end of the month, and Jimmy paid the

studio's billing for 30 hours.

I don't have the Grant book in front of me at the moment either, but it would seem

to me he would have taken the 'Led Zeppelin' album masters with him to secure the

deal with Atlantic. Live album recordings were generally frowned upon at the time,

not to mention the hassle of having to capture the live environment. Why bother

with all that when you have the album you intend to release already in the can.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Here's a Led Zeppelin bit of trivia which really isn't a mystery but seems to follow along the lines of Steve's "mysteries" - I really don't care about the answer that much but it seems like it would be good to include in Steve's book or whatever he's planning.

During the Sabbath Heaven & Hell tour Ronnie James Dio once said that members of Zeppelin (at least Page & Bonham, but maybe Page, Plant & Bonham or even all four) came to their soundcheck or was backstage before Sabbath went on and Bonzo started playing Bill Wards drums. Ronnie said it was awesome. When did this happen?

Bill Ward claims to have been on good terms with Bonzo. I think the hard separation between LZ and "heavy metal" bands is a little artificial and frankly, snobbish. In reality a lot of these guys grew up in the same area and had the same musical influences.

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Here's a Led Zeppelin bit of trivia which really isn't a mystery but seems to follow along the lines of Steve's "mysteries" - I really don't care about the answer that much but it seems like it would be good to include in Steve's book or whatever he's planning.

During the Sabbath Heaven & Hell tour Ronnie James Dio once said that members of Zeppelin (at least Page & Bonham, but maybe Page, Plant & Bonham or even all four) came to their soundcheck or was backstage before Sabbath went on and Bonzo started playing Bill Wards drums. Ronnie said it was awesome. When did this happen?

Thanks for the inquiry! If I had to guess I would say it was at the Hammersmith Odeon

on May 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th 1980, as Led Zeppelin was rehearsing down the road at the New Victoria Theater from May 5th-12th. Here's a link to the 1980 Black Sabbath Heaven and Hell tour:

http://www.black-sabbath.com/tourdates/1980.html

Note Black Sabbath's German dates were cancelled, ruling out a possible meeting while Zep toured Europe.

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Their first studio session for 'Led Zeppelin' was held Sept 27th 1968 at Abbey Road Studios. They recorded 'Babe I'm Gonna Leave You' & 'You Shook Me'. Their second

session was October 10 1968...two takes of 'Tribute to Bert Burns', among others.

The album sessions were completed by the end of the month, and Jimmy paid the

studio's billing for 30 hours.

I don't have the Grant book in front of me at the moment either, but it would seem

to me he would have taken the 'Led Zeppelin' album masters with him to secure the

deal with Atlantic. Live album recordings were generally frowned upon at the time,

not to mention the hassle of having to capture the live environment. Why bother

with all that when you have the album you intend to release already in the can.

Here is one quote from Welch's book on Grant:

"...on December 19 their manager was enroute to America clutching the tapes for the first Led Zeppelin album together with the completed artwork and some live recordings from gigs." (p.67)

For some reason I'm thinking of another quote directly from Grant though that made me scratch my head because it didn't seem to be referring to their first album sessions. Guess it's not too crazy to think that Jimmy has recordings from their early shows. No doubt in my mind he would. Also no doubt that WE will never hear them either...unfortunately.

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Here is one quote from Welch's book on Grant:

"...on December 19 their manager was enroute to America clutching the tapes for the first Led Zeppelin album together with the completed artwork and some live recordings from gigs." (p.67)

For some reason I'm thinking of another quote directly from Grant though that made me scratch my head because it didn't seem to be referring to their first album sessions. Guess it's not too crazy to think that Jimmy has recordings from their early shows. No doubt in my mind he would. Also no doubt that WE will never hear them either...unfortunately.

How intriguing. If I had to guess I would say they were the November 9th gig at the Roundhouse and the December 10th gig at the Marquee, the same date which Jimmy

explained to George Hardie his concept for the first album's cover. I choose those two

dates simply because they were both performed in London but more importantly prior to each they had at least one week off, which would allow for setting up to record them.

I'm sure if we start digging we'd find some comments alluding to which performances

they actually recorded.

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What ever became of the 2 unreleased tracks from IV ? "Lost in Space" and "St. Tristan's Sword" ?

Wow! I've not heard of these until now! Where've I been? :lol:

Have you any more on this bro?? :beer:

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What ever became of the 2 unreleased tracks from IV ? "Lost in Space" and "St. Tristan's Sword" ?

Frank (?), what in the hell are you talking about? :)

Edit: Such songs have NEVER been released and I for one am skeptical of their existence at all. If you can provide substantiation to the contrary, please do!

Edited by SteveAJones

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Frank (?), what in the hell are you talking about? :)

Edit: Such songs have NEVER been released and I for one am skeptical of their existence at all. If you can provide substantiation to the contrary, please do!

Ross Halfin mentioned "Lost In Space" in his diary....but knowing Ross he could have just been joking around. "St. Tristan's Sword" is mentioned in one of Dave Lewis' books. Neither is confirmed to be a 4th album outtake, however.

Neither song has surfaced among collectors, though.

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Jimmy refers to the thieves as "those two bitches" because they were two women who were staying as guests in his home at the time. They helped themselves to several of the 1980 soundboard tapes which were subsequently released by bootleggers.

They weren't two women - they were a man and a woman, and they were baby-sitting for Scarlet. They also took far more than that - that's where all the studio out-take tapes first came from, and LOADS more.

Edited by Knebby

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Steve there was only one Bitch and her male partner and they stole many more tapes than the 1980 shows. Jimmy actually calls her the bootleg Queen.

Sorry WW - I missed this - spot on as usual. :beer:

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They weren't two women - they were a man and a woman, and they were baby-sitting for Scarlet. They also took far more than that - that's where all the studio out-take tapes first came from, and LOADS more.

Clearly, I've mistaken "two bitches" to have meant two women. In jolly old England it apparently can be applied to blokes as well. It's rather like "he's a queen" I imagine.

Knebby, thanks so much for providing additional insight into how they gained access in the first place. What a betrayal of his trust on their part.

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Couldn't really be much worse could it? Little wonder he was so angry AND hurt by it.

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Couldn't really be much worse could it? Little wonder he was so angry AND hurt by it.

Still talks about it Knebby and as you know he got a lot of his stuff back in May 1999.

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Ross Halfin mentioned "Lost In Space" in his diary....but knowing Ross he could have just been joking around. "St. Tristan's Sword" is mentioned in one of Dave Lewis' books. Neither is confirmed to be a 4th album outtake, however.

Neither song has surfaced among collectors, though.

Which Dave Lewis book ?? and is Ross halfin a bit of a joker then ???

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and is Ross halfin a bit of a joker then ???

Some would say a jaded joker, but then he's earned the right to be.

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Steve/Evster,

Sorry I can't provide any more than that both tracks were mentioned in one of Dave Lewis' books.-which is what prompted my question. IIRC,Mr Lewis states matter of factly that these tracks were recorded. Zero mention of them before or since. I don't get the impression Lost in Space was mentioned as a joke but I could be mistaken. I'm quite certain they're both mentioned in Dave's last book. Quite an enigma,fellas.

Wish I could provide more info.

The game is afoot !

Edited by fsmith9095

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I don't get the impression Lost in Space was mentioned as a joke but I could be mistaken. I'm quite certain they're both mentioned in Dave's last book. Quite an enigma,fellas.

Sure enough, it's very much a mystery at the moment. I can see them writing something titled "St Tristan's Sword". The Arthurian connection and all that. I

cannot see how "Lost In Space" fits into the context of their fourth album. It's

just Ross Halfin having a laugh. (Then again, perhaps not :) )

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