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Mr_K

Page vs Millard

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I can only wonder if Page has ever heard this side of the story. It's hard to understand his attitude; you might think the latter day gigs

might be embarrassing with the drug thing , but Page himself often mentioned the "tight but loose" approach and the risk taking

approach of the band live even with songs lacking free form sections.

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Old topic, but hey I wasn't going to start a new thread.

Did Mike ever have a chance to meet any members of the band? There seems to be a lot of
unknown about a guy so infamous when it comes to Led Zeppelin. All I know about him is he's
from SoCal, frequented Zep concerts and was able to get unbelievable audience recordings of
the band by bringing a wheel chair in as prop to hide his gear. And then he past away in '90, but
supposedly destroyed a good portion of his stuff. Not all though.

How does anybody even know he destroyed it? There's so much mystery about who Mike Millard
was. It's like trying to find out who the Santa Claus of Led Zeppelin live recordings is

Has Jimmy ever tried to get in touch with somebody who possibly has some of his original recordings
in their possession. Anybody in the underground bootleg world that knew him. His mother? The friends
who helped him pull this off?


 

Edited by KellyGirl

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And therein lies the problem. When it comes to compiling live releases Page is not the best judge for his own work. He needs a pair of objective outside ears in order to do the job right. There's no need to rewrite history here, and that is how Jimmy approaches these kinds of projects.

IMO most intelligent thing I've heard regarding this subject. Also, I couldn't agree more. Jimmy should have released a box set of 6/25/72 and 6/27/72 complete. Not even a scratch of an edit, unless he wants to fix the feedback squeals. I agree. I have seen too many great bands release warts and all recordings from every month they toured, ever, and 3 or 4 soundboard (not multi) official releases from each month. If ANY band is going to release a warts and all live release series, it needs to be mother f**king ZEPPELIN! Jesus. They couldn't do wrong on stage. Their worst nights are lightyears better than some of the "archival" releases I've seen. Cough Doors Stones Dead etc

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And Mike Millards tapes will be officially released by Led Zeppelin, or down the road by the estate. Mark my words. Only a matter of time. Unless a better soundboard/monitor mix tape surfaces, they will be the best representation of 1977's live stuff. Hopefully there are tapes from the board though. But agree Mike Millard made the ultimate "tune in, drop out and be there live" recordings for the band. The '75 and '77 stuff he recording, via headphones, gives me goosebumps every time.

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It's amazing what someone who knows what they are doing can do with a remaster. Liriodendron somehow made Frankfurt sound like a multi...I don't even know how that's possible.

Nutrocker mentioned in another thread that the exceptional quality of the 27 April 1977 at Cleveland might be because the lineage is a rip directly from master soundboard reels.  If anyone has their hands on those masters, it's gotta be either the label or one of the members.  Take one of those and use the Millard to make a matrix...that's a show I'd like to hear.

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IMO most intelligent thing I've heard regarding this subject.

Well, it's true, isn't it? Jimmy Page has no objectivity when it comes to archival tapes, which is why if they were ever to start issuing such a thing Jimmy needs to stay as far away from the fucking studio as possible! 

And Mike Millards tapes will be officially released by Led Zeppelin, or down the road by the estate. Mark my words. Only a matter of time. Unless a better soundboard/monitor mix tape surfaces, they will be the best representation of 1977's live stuff. Hopefully there are tapes from the board though. But agree Mike Millard made the ultimate "tune in, drop out and be there live" recordings for the band. The '75 and '77 stuff he recording, via headphones, gives me goosebumps every time.

I believe it was Millard's mum who claimed he destroyed all his tapes before he topped himself, so I'm afraid the 1st gen copies that circulated a couple years back are as good as yer gonna get there. 

Soundboards for the LA '77 (or '75) shows can't compete with Mike's tapes. 

Nutrocker mentioned in another thread that the exceptional quality of the 27 April 1977 at Cleveland might be because the lineage is a rip directly from master soundboard reels.  If anyone has their hands on those masters, it's gotta be either the label or one of the members.  Take one of those and use the Millard to make a matrix...that's a show I'd like to hear.

I think the master SBD reels circulate from the April 27 show because those were used as reference tapes for lighting cues and whatnot. It was probably one of the sound guys who let the masters circulate years -decades- after the fact.

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I think the master SBD reels circulate from the April 27 show because those were used as reference tapes for lighting cues and whatnot. It was probably one of the sound guys who let the masters circulate years -decades- after the fact.

For that show, yeah, but my comment was referring to the rest of those master reels (like 28 April).  Unless someone threw them out, they got to be out there somewhere.

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I happen to think that a lot of this is about 'ownership' of a live performance. Page, quite rightly, sees it as 'his' music and is at liberty to do what he likes with whatever he has. If it means sitting on unreleased soundboards etc, then as the creator/originator/owner it is entirely his right. As it is to decide what he releases to be heard and what he decides to cut and alter-as the creative force, it is his right. To use a helpful; analogy, no-one would tell Picasso or Rembrandt what to paint, or tell them what to restore or remove from finished paintings. However, fans, of course, see that very differently, especially fan-collectors who have an urge to hear and collect everything warts and all-as they have an exaggerated sense of ownership of the work-almost a feeling of having a right to hear stuff/own stuff and, of course rate and discuss stuff. This can then lead to a bit of a blurring-eg a fan-collector will see Page as a block on owning some of the sounds, and/or then criticise his choices because a 'better' version is available-despite the fan-collector being completely outside the creative processes loop. Or you end up with a conspiracy theory where Page is somehow either facilitating or blocking bootlegs. As a fan-collector (something like 300 Zep boots and rising) I am forever trying to stop myself over-engaging in 'ownership' issues-I am just delighted when a new boot turns up, or an official recording turns up.

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So the Los Angeles shows that i've heard on you tube were recorded by this guy Millard?  I've heard the 1975 shows from there and also 2 shows form 1977.  They sound like you are sitting in the audience.  I like that feel and hearing the people talk, explosions going off, and all.  Thanks y'all.  I'm new to their live unofficial stuff.  I like those shows better than The Song Remains The Same and the BBC releases.  They sound so flat and quiet from the audience.  Almost like they were studio songs that had an audience added on after.  I know they weren't, but those Los Angeles shows have so much more life to them.  That's just me.  Thanks again y'all.  

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3/11/75, 3/12/75 (end), 3/24/75, 3/25/75, 3/27/75, 6/19/77, 6/21/77, 6/23/77, 6/25/77, 6/27/77 are all confirmed Millard tapes. His sources of all those shows are the best source, save 3/11/75 which has a soundboard (which arguably is no better than the Millard tape from that night). ALL of those are blisteringly hot & tight shows, except for 6/19/77. So Millard was not only a great taper, but incredibly lucky to have been at the right shows, probably in a near-front seat (different stories about how he got so close to the stage at every show, but IDK), some of the best played by the band. SEEK THEE THE TAPES! The are masterpieces, really.

Edited by Dirty Work

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I can't understand why the official releases are butchered by edits.  Hardly any talk between numbers and removing sections of songs. Reading the garden tapes opened my eyes to a lot and explained what I was listening to.  Listened to the Paris Olympia official release once. The removal of most of the solo from heartbreaker summed it up and it was clear that how many more times had been chopped up as well.  What is the point in doing it - what is the point in listening to it? Looked forward to the release and was ultimately disappointed.

Based on that approach i doubt that we will see warts and all releases. Risks were taken, some vocals and guitar parts weren't perfect and won't/can't be overdubbed.

If we did have some releases I assume the butchers knife would come out leaving many preferring a lower quality but uncut version.

The official live releases aren't made for the 1% of obsessives (and I mean that in a positive way) that have heard the bootlegs and pore over every last detail, they were made for the broad listening audience at large... and Jimmy as producer sees it as such.  He evidently has his producer's hat on with these releases and wants to keep things tight and flowing, hence some improvisational sections being trimmed, and some renditions of old blues and rockabilly standards being cut because of rights issue probably.

if HTWWW  had included 'Thank You', 'Tangerine', and 'Communication Breakdown', if the 2007 TSRTS  had kept 'The Ocean' in it's proper place as the final encore, and both albums had retained the full dynamic range of the original recordings instead of compression and brickwalling. there's not a thing I would have to complain about either... not a thing.

But that's just me, I believe rock n roll should be experienced not analyzed...and the Zep are no exception to that rule.

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They sound like you are sitting in the audience. 

I'm convinced that's the key to a great live album.  All of the best ever (Cheap Trick at Baduken, Wings Over America, Frampton Comes Alive) kept the audience noise high in the mix.

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My ultimate bucket list item? a 5.1 mix done by Page and Kramer, with Millards 6/21, 23, 25, 27th recordings mixed with (future technology, hopefully, or the best we have today) the raw '77 standard soundboard. With a little luck, this would be the epic masterpiece that gave the '77 tour a good name. Imagine the SOUND this beast would have? Imagine a board, along the lines of the sound quality of the newer 5/30/77 board, mixed with a Millard audience recording (6/21/77 first hopefully) that sounded as good as any live album, EVER?

I do think this is possible. Some tricks and edits may have to be pulled, but I hope that it's so great that the 3% of us nuts forgive the editing. Nothing would beat the vibe of a well thought '77 live release. The material is there. The performance quality is there. The recordings are there (assuming the 6/23 NOISE sbd snippet didn't fall out of the sun that burns the ground). Why not. Bring on the LA '77 release.

 

edit: 5.1, or a natural sounding stereo version, without the sound of a matrix. Four Blocks in the Snow showed us that it is possible. B)

Edited by Dirty Work

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2015 at 4:01 AM, Nutrocker said:

 

 Millard's tapes are still the Gold Fucking Standard for audience recordings as far as I'm concerned. Hence why the goddamn bootleg is called "Listen To This Eddie"- no, it's not a dig at Eddie Van Halen as supposed, but rather Eddie Kramer, the king of recording engineers (well, one of them, anyway).

 

I fully agree. As I sit here listening to the "Eddie" show, I am amazed at the sound quality.

It would be nice if some of his '75 shows would surface....

Millard.jpg

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TBH I don't give a rats ass if Page takes Millard's recordings and edits out any mistakes to release something more "acceptable" to his ears or just puts out a warts and all version...Just put out the damn shows already, one way or another.

Potatoes or asparagus, who cares, we are starving for chrissakes and indecision on the side dishes has delayed the meal.

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On 12/3/2015 at 0:58 PM, Dirty Work said:

3/11/75, 3/12/75 (end), 3/24/75, 3/25/75, 3/27/75, 6/19/77, 6/21/77, 6/23/77, 6/25/77, 6/27/77

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

On 3/30/2017 at 9:27 AM, ZosoAddict said:

I fully agree. As I sit here listening to the "Eddie" show, I am amazed at the sound quality.

It would be nice if some of his '75 shows would surface...

 

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If theres ever a '77 official release, i think it should be either a doctored '77 release of the LA soundbboards, who cares if they switch from night to night, it worked in '72 when they had 2 shows, here there are 6 in the 77 run. Unfortunately i think it will be a while before Zeppelin releases an audience recording on it own, but maybe mixed with a decent soundboard as a pro matrix. That makes most of 4 gigs usable, 21st, 23rd, 25th, 27th. On second thought, every Millard recording sounds better (even the ones butchered by poor sounding bootlegs) sounds better than that Zeppelin 1 companion disc. Barf. Great performance, quality kills it. Sounds like Pagey went out for a smoke FOR THE WHOLE RECORDING. :rolleyes:

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On 1/29/2015 at 9:51 PM, Sue Dounim said:

I'll never let go of my pipe dream that someday Pontiac 1977 will be officially released on DVD, SD-blu ray, and CD.

Theres another fellow '77 lover. Pontiac sounds like such a well played gig. I strain my ears trying to see how well Jimmy and Robert are doing, and every time I think they may be playing better than LA. Which was also the end of a leg, which they seemed to have a knack for finishing strong. (example 3/21, 3/25-27/75, 6/21-27/77)

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2 hours ago, Dirty Work said:

On second thought, every Millard recording sounds better (even the ones butchered by poor sounding bootlegs) sounds better than that Zeppelin 1 companion disc. Barf. Great performance, quality kills it. Sounds like Pagey went out for a smoke FOR THE WHOLE RECORDING. :rolleyes:

You can not blame Jimmy for the lame Paris' Olympia 69 audio fidelity. The  Radio France engineer was simply not prepared for the band's volume. With the possible exception of the BBC techs, most continental radio technicians were only used to capture acoustic  Jazz combo's or classical orchestra's for broadcast, not loud Marshal amps. The poor chap was clearly clueless how to balance the venue's acoustics with Zep's sonic assault. Given the limitations of the two track reel to reel tapes, the only touch ups Jimmy could apply was some EQ ing and compressing. But you're right, sound quality is Sh*te, Texas Pop or the April Fillmore shows  would have been much  better quality companion discs.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, duckman said:

You can not blame Jimmy for the lame Paris' Olympia 69 audio fidelity. The  Radio France engineer was simply not prepared for the band's volume. With the possible exception of the BBC techs, most continental radio technicians were only used to capture acoustic  Jazz combo's or classical orchestra's for broadcast, not loud Marshal amps. The poor chap was clearly clueless how to balance the venue's acoustics with Zep's sonic assault. Given the limitations of the two track reel to reel tapes, the only touch ups Jimmy could apply was some EQ ing and compressing. But you're right, sound quality is Sh*te, Texas Pop or the April Fillmore shows  would have been much  better quality companion discs.

Amen...And why didn't Jimmy use the more live era appropriate companion material for the subsequent reissues? Strange that the 1st companion disc was all that fairly poorly recorded show then , nothing else live.  It would've been so great to have a smattering of live versions of songs from each album. Even just a handful. Spilt milk but...Just sayin. 

Edited by porgie66

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21 hours ago, Dirty Work said:

If theres ever a '77 official release, i think it should be either a doctored '77 release of the LA soundbboards, who cares if they switch from night to night, it worked in '72 when they had 2 shows, here there are 6 in the 77 run. Unfortunately i think it will be a while before Zeppelin releases an audience recording on it own, but maybe mixed with a decent soundboard as a pro matrix. That makes most of 4 gigs usable, 21st, 23rd, 25th, 27th. On second thought, every Millard recording sounds better (even the ones butchered by poor sounding bootlegs) sounds better than that Zeppelin 1 companion disc. Barf. Great performance, quality kills it. Sounds like Pagey went out for a smoke FOR THE WHOLE RECORDING. :rolleyes:

Nutrocker posted a great an idea for a great LA 77 compilation.

 

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^ TY. I think it could be done with the Landover run too, even 5/28 has its strong points. All those boards sound identical, minus 5/28 which it lacking in high ends, but Jimmy is high in the mix and not doing bad at all. The TSRTS and SIBLY from the 28th are strong, as well as Sick Again.

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Posted (edited)

If I could rename this thread, it would be as follows:

JIMMY, nobody caught Zeppelin on tape better than Mike Millard. In '75, '77, and possibly '73 (idk, who knows though). Officially release them because they would make great ones. Didn't the Stones release a Millard tape officially or semi-officially?

Nobody caught them on tape better, besides the microphones on the stage. RIP. :wub:

I think I've heard a DAMN good Pink Floyd gig he recorded on the west coast, I don't have it though. I remember it sounded killer.

Edit: 

If that doesn't sound like a Millard recording idk what does. Pretty sure its a Millard.

Edited by Dirty Work

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