Best Federal Marijuana legislation ever

[Hotplant]

It's about time!

[BIGDAN]

That's what the police is for. Other than that, it's up to personal responsibility. The goervnment should not replace responsibility. The Police are the enforcers of Government policy so I was right in the first place, the Government are there to keep us in order because we cannot do it ourselves, thats proven by looking at any major Town/City in Americia- Europe-Africia-Asia-Australasia, enough said.

Of course it's different, but the standards should be the same. Agree.

Why? Because Government has made Religion nonexistant in the running of a Country, it has taken away the morality that Religion had given us for thousands of years but has replaced it with nothing substantial, therefore I think that Government should act on behalf of the People as the People cannot or willnot behave in a moral or civilised manner without either a Strict Religious Code or a Strong Government imposing it in the place of Religious State.

So if we were in 1850, I'd be arguing that all men have inalienable rights and for this reason, slaves should be freed. All the while you'd be arguing that they have no rights since the law/government says they do not? That's disturbing. Your missing my point again, your rights were given too you by your then Government in 1787, since then your Constitution had been changed with 27 ammendments. http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html My point is this, if a Government can say "These are your rights" another Government can change them, so your "Rights" are no longer "Rights" they are Government whims, in my opinion. And at least you in the US have a Constitution, here in England we dont have one.

All men have inalienable rights. Period. Not in my opinion, history will bear me out on this one. Go tell that to the Red Indian, The Jew, The Palestinian, The Chineese, The Kurd, even The Taliban has no "inalienable rights" do they?

I never said the government should sell drugs. That's fpor the private sector. Agree.

As for prositution, you can legalize it, but you'd just have to keep tight reins on security for the girls and STD prevention, lest we have a breakout. Agree.

We are not India. Go to downtown Detroit or Boston or New York or LA or etc. It's not drugs killing the people, it's poverty. Poverty, in the richest country in the world, dont make me laugh, its all about greed in your country (and mine) then if poverty does exists, where it should not exist. Proves again that capitalism doesnt work for the poor, doesnt it? It proves my point again that Government doesnt give a dam about its Peoples lives, it should be more concerned in creating Jobs for these areas and making "Drugs" Harder and Harder to get hold of, not easier like you are suggesting, and if you have to Terminate the Dealers-Pushers-Suppliers-Trafficers-Mr Bigs then so what? Make society a better place by ridding it of the Scum-Slime-Parasites that are bringing it down. And by the way, you could learn a lot about Poverty by going to see India for yourself, you would see that it is not riddled with "Drug Crime" like the US and Europe, where with all our wealth, we are.

Gee while we're at it, why don't we just cut out the eyes of minors who watch porn? Or paralyze those that run from the cops? Right on brother, i'm with you there.

What you are arguing is seriously disgusting...I'm not kidding I'm not argueing, i'm just stating fact, there are other options at hand, but the Governments in the West are too worried about not getting re-elected to bring in things that would work. It works in other countries, has done for thousands of years, it could work in our countries but we have not the backbone to do anything about it. So must we live in a state of fear and let the untouchable criminals go about there business, in many cases with Police support, and the Government run Courts give out sentences that a child could serve with no problem, thats what you propose is it not, well at least some of us still have a burning fire in our bellies and are not so quick to lie down and die. When I hear the lines of "The Immigrant Song" I know my ancestors came from Viking stock, because like me, the Vikings would not have let their society become so vile and debased, and you my friend?

When ahs that ever happened? Every Friday and Saturday night in every Village-Town-City in the UK, Alcohol fuelled violence and distruction. And have you never seen the mayhem of what Alcohol can do to People who go to Sporting events, i've seen it kick off many times in both mine and your countries, either personaly or via news real or "utube", havent you?

No, but the private sector would significantly lower prices. Also, you can make these thigns less addictive, but it will take study that only the private sector can do. Thats all we need, cheaper Hard Drugs, cheaper Soft Drugs, cheaper Alcohol, more profit for the Government in Taxes and Duties, what your proposing is to continue to take our society down hill in to the abbys that we call Hell on Earth, well thanks very much but no thanks mate, i'll continue to fight against this all the way.

Really? You think governments are responsible for the major breakthroughs of the scientific world? Think again. No i dont, and I cant think why you would ask me that question as I have no intimated in my posts that I do, apart from the fact you seem to be hell bent proving you are right and i'm wrong, I dont know why but you seem to keep wanting to make your posts in to a personal attack on me, why?

Edited March 3, 2009 by BIGDAN

[redrum]

Potheads....untie....er..umm.....utine.....what??....Oh yeah....Unite!!

[wanna be drummer]

The Police are the enforcers of Government policy so I was right in the first place, the Government are there to keep us in order because we cannot do it ourselves, thats proven by looking at any major Town/City in Americia- Europe-Africia-Asia-Australasia, enough said.

Are you implying you're right and I'm wrong? This goes with exactly what I said. The police does exactly what the government is supposed to do. They protect people from having their rights violated. It proves MY point

Because Government has made Religion nonexistant in the running of a Country, it has taken away the morality that Religion had given us for thousands of years but has replaced it with nothing substantial, therefore I think that Government should act on behalf of the People as the People cannot or willnot behave in a moral or civilised manner without either a Strict Religious Code or a Strong Government imposing it in the place of Religious State.

If people themselves will not voluntarily accept religious values, then that's their problem. But you nor I have the right to force them to obey our religion simply because we say so. Are you Muslim Danny? I don't think you are. Let's say that Sharia Law was put in place of the English government. We are now ruled by whatever the Koran says is fit. This is exactly what you're emphasizing government do. The only difference is, you have a different religion. I'm a very Catholic man my good sir,. but I would never force others to bend to my religions will just because I say so.

And if you truly don't believe people can behave without a super-government, then how, pray tell, do you think the Native Americans survived? They did not have a mighty government above them, nor do we.

Nor should we. Strong governments have only created bad (see China)

Your missing my point again, your rights were given too you by your then Government in 1787, since then your Constitution had been changed with 27 ammendments. http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html My point is this, if a Government can say "These are your rights" another Government can change them, so your "Rights" are no longer "Rights" they are Government whims, in my opinion. And at least you in the US have a Constitution, here in England we dont have one.

I got your point the first time. My government does not "give me my rights", it simply acknowledges that we as a race have "inalienable rights" as first suggested by John Locke.

Not in my opinion, history will bear me out on this one. Go tell that to the Red Indian, The Jew, The Palestinian, The Chineese, The Kurd, even The Taliban has no "inalienable rights" do they?

Yes they did. Everyone has rights, every last person on the planet. Their rights, however, were squashed because the big government you proposed you said that "Well we don't care about your rights, we'll still break you."

Rights are inherent, but they aren't an invisibile shield. I will ALWAYS have my right to free speech. Whether or not soemone acts to shut me up is another story.

Proves again that capitalism doesnt work for the poor, doesnt it?

If what you think America has is free market or true capitalism, then you sir, are very naive no offense.

It proves my point again that Government doesnt give a dam about its Peoples lives, it should be more concerned in creating Jobs for these areas and making "Drugs" Harder and Harder to get hold of, not easier like you are suggesting, and if you have to Terminate the Dealers-Pushers-Suppliers-Trafficers-Mr Bigs then so what?

What dod rugs have to do with a country's economic woes? And how does that prove the government doesn't care about its people? You just connected three topics with completely irrelevant "data"

Make society a better place by ridding it of the Scum-Slime-Parasites that are bringing it down. And by the way, you could learn a lot about Poverty by going to see India for yourself, you would see that it is not riddled with "Drug Crime" like the US and Europe, where with all our wealth, we are.

What is a scum-slime-parasite? I know a drug daelaer or two, and they are some of the coolest most down to earth people I've ever met. Others are...well exactly what you see in the movies, but that's to be expected. I am not arguing that all drug-user/sellers are good, but i'm not going to be retarded and suggest that they are the scum of the Earth simply because they smoke an herb to relax on the weekend as you seem to be.

Or paralyze those that run from the cops? Right on brother, i'm with you there.

I'm actually considering not responding to you anymore...it's quite apparent you have a disgusting sense of right and wrong and do not understand the phrase "cruel and unusual punishment".

I'm not kidding in the slightest either...especially when i say you may need to seek mental help...once again, not an ounce of me is joking here.

Edited March 4, 2009 by wanna be drummer

[wanna be drummer]

I'm not argueing, i'm just stating fact, there are other options at hand, but the Governments in the West are too worried about not getting re-elected to bring in things that would work. It works in other countries, has done for thousands of years, it could work in our countries but we have not the backbone to do anything about it. So must we live in a state of fear and let the untouchable criminals go about there business, in many cases with Police support, and the Government run Courts give out sentences that a child could serve with no problem, thats what you propose is it not, well at least some of us still have a burning fire in our bellies and are not so quick to lie down and die. When I hear the lines of "The Immigrant Song" I know my ancestors came from Viking stock, because like me, the Vikings would not have let their society become so vile and debased, and you my friend?

First off, the Vikings themselves were vile and debased so that's already proving you wrong.

Also, strong government does not stop crime, stop drug use, etc. As seen in China and Cuba and North Korea and most of Africa, crime is still incredibly high, despite all the big government. You cannot stop people from acting out. It's impossible. No matter what the punishment may be, people will risk it. You and I do it everyday, whether it's me drinking underage or it's the both of us speeding, no one can ever follow all the rules, nor is it even near logical to believe an entire country can.

When ahs that ever happened? Every Friday and Saturday night in every Village-Town-City in the UK, Alcohol fuelled violence and distruction. And have you never seen the mayhem of what Alcohol can do to People who go to Sporting events, i've seen it kick off many times in both mine and your countries, either personaly or via news real or "utube", havent you?

You really think that's just alcohol talking? Jesus, please get a grip on reality! Even the most sober of people commit the gruesome of acts!

Thats all we need, cheaper Hard Drugs, cheaper Soft Drugs, cheaper Alcohol, more profit for the Government in Taxes and Duties, what your proposing is to continue to take our society down hill in to the abbys that we call Hell on Earth, well thanks very much but no thanks mate, i'll continue to fight against this all the way.

Hell on Earth? Right, so the PhDs of the world that smoke pot once in a while are leading the world to hell on Earth? While you may fight for more regulations, all you are truly doing is increasing the price of drugs and making it easier for gangs and drug lords to make a shit ton of profit. The hgiher the price, the more people have to spend, the more they have to steal and rob to get the cash for their habit. If you want to solve the problem, then make them legal so prices will drop enormously to the point where people can spend their own money to fuel their habit, and perhaps come to realize that they need help. If they can't do that, then they'll end up in jail anyways. Tough shit.

Just because something's legal does not mean people will do it. Studies have shown that most people who don't smoke pot now won't smoke pot if it's legal. You seem to believe otherwise

No i dont, and I cant think why you would ask me that question as I have no intimated in my posts that I do, apart from the fact you seem to be hell bent proving you are right and i'm wrong, I dont know why but you seem to keep wanting to make your posts in to a personal attack on me, why?

I said and I quote "That's how the free market works. It makes thigns better and safer." then you argued that it makes things worse and less safe. So which is it? Does the free market or the government make individual products safer or better? Take my laptop for example. Back in the day, the amount of power this baby generates could generate a fire, but the private sector wanted to stop that fom happening so more people would buy them. Private technological research made it possible for my laptop to function without burning down my dorm room. The government did not help in doing that. The only science the government seems to focus on is the stars through NASA. The rest is up to individual people at private companies.

Would you like to prove me wrong?

Oh, and I have not once used a personal attack on you dude. But you are personally attacking every single member of the forum that uses drugs (like weed) or drinks every time you say that they're the scum of the Earth..

Edited March 4, 2009 by wanna be drummer

[Tejanablonde]

Considering all of the trouble going on our border in Mexico with the cartels, do you think they really want to end it? It's a pretty scary situation down there and it's getting closer. It's not like the borders are heavily guarded. Something needs to be done and soon.

You know, if the feds legalized m.j., the need for cartels would be minimized No profit- no business. I believe the only reason it's illegal is the government can't figure a method to tax it. So, here's how you do it boys- gather the quality stuff, limit it and tax it. Cut out the middle man. Geez

Actually, I'm personally tired of hearing about shootouts/kidnappings more than 50 miles from the Texas/Mexico border then running for the border to Mexico afterward.

[Dzldoc]

You know, if the feds legalized m.j., the need for cartels would be minimized No profit- no business. I believe the only reason it's illegal is the government can't figure a method to tax it. So, here's how you do it boys- gather the quality stuff, limit it and tax it. Cut out the middle man. Geez

Actually, I'm personally tired of hearing about shootouts/kidnappings more than 50 miles from the Texas/Mexico border then running for the border to Mexico afterward.

It would probably free up a lot of space in prisons taken up by non violent offenders.

It was originally a campaign by the textile industries against hemp back in the 30's

Ala "Reefer Madness" remember "Cotton is King"

[wanna be drummer]

It would probably free up a lot of space in prisons taken up by non violent offenders.

It was originally a campaign by the textile industries against hemp back in the 30's

Ala "Reefer Madness" remember "Cotton is King"

Damn right. We spend far too much on criminals as it is. At least decriminalize it, save the taxpayers some money eh?

[Dzldoc]

Damn right. We spend far too much on criminals as it is. At least decriminalize it, save the taxpayers some money eh?

Especially here in Louisiana, we have the largest prison population per capita in the US

65 per 100,000 people I always refered to LA as cop land

[wanna be drummer]

Especially here in Louisiana, we have the largest prison population per capita in the US

65 per 100,000 people I always refered to LA as cop land

If everybody voted a straight Libertarian ticket, I can assure you that wouldn't be true anymore

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

If everybody voted a straight Libertarian ticket, I can assure you that wouldn't be true anymore

yea right

[BIGDAN]

Are you implying you're right and I'm wrong? Yes! and no.

This goes with exactly what I said. The police does exactly what the government is supposed to do. They protect people from having their rights violated. Bullshit! Its the Police and Government that violate Peoples "Rights" the most.

It proves MY point No, wrong again.

If people themselves will not voluntarily accept religious values, then that's their problem.

No, its society's problem in the end.

But you nor I have the right to force them to obey our religion simply because we say so. Agree.

Are you Muslim Danny? Shalom!

I don't think you are. Correct.

Let's say that Sharia Law was put in place of the English government. One day this will happen.

We are now ruled by whatever the Koran says is fit. This is exactly what you're emphasizing government do. The only difference is, you have a different religion. I'm a very Catholic man my good sir,. but I would never force others to bend to my religions will just because I say so.

The Koran is a good book, we could learn a lot of good moral values from it if we would only try a little harder.

And if you truly don't believe people can behave without a super-government, then how, pray tell, do you think the Native Americans survived? They did not have a mighty government above them, nor do we. They survived because they stayed in small communities where being anti-social was not tollerated. When you move on to Town/City sizes you need stronger law enforcement because anti-social types can hide within the masses. Both our countries have laws that are too weak and are not enforced strictly enough, too weak to deter these anti-social types, i'm only suggesting that there are other ways to act on these anti-social types, but as i have said before our Governments are too weak or have not the stomach to do what is needed to make the anti-social types either stop their bad behavior or go away for good. And this is for the good of society as a whole not for the personal pleasures of the individual. In my opinion .

Nor should we. Strong governments have only created bad (see China)

And weak Governments have only created worse, evil. (see US-GB)

I got your point the first time. My government does not "give me my rights", it simply acknowledges that we as a race have "inalienable rights" as first suggested by John Locke. OK.

Yes they did. Everyone has rights, every last person on the planet. Their rights, however, were squashed because the big government you proposed you said that "Well we don't care about your rights, we'll still break you." I get your point.

Rights are inherent, but they aren't an invisibile shield. I will ALWAYS have my right to free speech. Whether or not soemone acts to shut me up is another story. Agreed.

If what you think America has is free market or true capitalism, then you sir, are very naive no offense. You have lost me here!

What dod rugs have to do with a country's economic woes? The money to deal with Drug related offences and the Treatment of these people and the clear up of their mess, its all adds up to a large chunk of cash that could be spent better elseware.

And how does that prove the government doesn't care about its people?

If as a Parent I knowingly allow my child to abuse Drugs/Alcohol then I would be the first to admit that I didnt care about my child, I apply the same rules too my Government about its citizens.

You just connected three topics with completely irrelevant "data" Have I?

What is a scum-slime-parasite? Not you I might add, or People who take Alcohol or for that matter Drugs in General. But the ones who commit crime either as a result of them taking any of the above or to steal/rob to get the money to fund their habbit.

I know a drug daelaer or two, Me too, and they are some of the coolest most down to earth people I've ever met. In your opinion not mine, and not in the eyes of the law or society in general.

Others are...well exactly what you see in the movies, but that's to be expected. And they are the ones i'm talking about, OK.

I am not arguing that all drug-user/sellers are good, thats a step in the right direction, but i'm not going to be retarded and suggest that they are the scum of the Earth simply because they smoke an herb to relax on the weekend as you seem to be. Wrong again, but keep on smoking the "DOPE" and you might find out one day that you are retarded.

I'm actually considering not responding to you anymore...Good for you, it's quite apparent you have a disgusting sense of right and wrong and do not understand the phrase "cruel and unusual punishment". I have a very good sense of right and wrong, what I dont have is an addled mind because of Alcohol or Drug overuse as you seem to have. I also have a wicked sense of humor that seems to go right over your head, gotcha.

I'm not kidding in the slightest either...especially when i say you may need to seek mental help...once again, not an ounce of me is joking here. I've no doubt you think that way, thats because of your youth and inexperiance, when you have seen more of the world and not through the rose tinted glasses that you wear now your view of the world may change.

Untill then, Regards, Danny

Always a pleasure Mr Drummer.

Edited March 5, 2009 by BIGDAN

[BIGDAN]

First off, the Vikings themselves were vile and debased so that's already proving you wrong.

But excelent material for a Film or Song, AHAHAHHHHHHH AH, would you not agree?

Also, strong government does not stop crime, stop drug use, etc. As seen in China and Cuba and North Korea and most of Africa, crime is still incredibly high, despite all the big government. You cannot stop people from acting out. It's impossible. No matter what the punishment may be, people will risk it. You and I do it everyday, whether it's me drinking underage or it's the both of us speeding, no one can ever follow all the rules, nor is it even near logical to believe an entire country can. I didnt know you were an underaged drinker, you really have shocked me, do your parents know? How ashamed they must be, and you a devout Catholic, how do you think Jesus feels now knowing that one of his flock is a Drinker? A law breaked, and you have the cheak to have a go at me, your going to Hell you know?

You really think that's just alcohol talking? Jesus, please get a grip on reality! Even the most sober of people commit the gruesome of acts! No not just drinkers, but drinking is the fuel of the Friday/Saturday night mayhem, you have a real problem when someone proves a point dont you, your immaturity really show up when you lose an arguement I would say.

Hell on Earth? Right, so the PhDs of the world that smoke pot once in a while are leading the world to hell on Earth? While you may fight for more regulations, all you are truly doing is increasing the price of drugs and making it easier for gangs and drug lords to make a shit ton of profit. The hgiher the price, the more people have to spend, the more they have to steal and rob to get the cash for their habit. If you want to solve the problem, then make them legal so prices will drop enormously to the point where people can spend their own money to fuel their habit, and perhaps come to realize that they need help. If they can't do that, then they'll end up in jail anyways. Tough shit. So we do what you say eh? We lower the price, or give it too the addicts for free and let everyone who wants too get shitfaced all day forever.

Just because something's legal does not mean people will do it. Studies have shown that most people who don't smoke pot now won't smoke pot if it's legal. You seem to believe otherwise Where did I say that? Are you getting a little too spaced out, you seem to be halosinating, are you self medicating again?

I said and I quote "That's how the free market works. It makes thigns better and safer." then you argued that it makes things worse and less safe. So which is it? We were talking about Drugs. If you make them cheaper then people will be able to buy more, if you make them safer then people will take more to get the same effect therefore creating more Drug related overdoses which will result in either damage to their body or death. So its worse and less safe, it does not take a person with a PhD to work that one out, you self medicating again?

Does the free market or the government make individual products safer or better?

The Government makes products safer through legislation, products are made better by the free market to sell more items and so create more profit, and so fulfil their criteria of worshiping their God, Mamon.

Take my laptop for example. Back in the day, the amount of power this baby generates could generate a fire, but the private sector wanted to stop that fom happening so more people would buy them. Private technological research made it possible for my laptop to function without burning down my dorm room. The government did not help in doing that. Not even through legislation? Just asking!!! The only science the government seems to focus on is the stars through NASA. The rest is up to individual people at private companies. I think you might have to go and do a little bit more research on this one, but I see your point.

Would you like to prove me wrong? Heaven forbid I could do that!!!!!

Oh, and I have not once used a personal attack on you dude. But you are personally attacking every single member of the forum that uses drugs (like weed) or drinks every time you say that they're the scum of the Earth.. Wrong again, if you think I am attacking you or anyone else on here, then it is because you or they have a conflict of concience. You musy think you are doing wrong in the first place, my only attack is on the Dealers-Suppliers-Peddelers of Drugs and the misuse of Alcohol. If you want to chill out with a "Bud" or a "Joint" then i'm not your enemy, but if that leads you on to commit crime or to become anti-social, to make thinks worse for society, then i'm 100% attacking you and anybody else that does that, are we OK on that one now.

Until we meet again, Regards, Danny

PS. Have one, or two, on me, but no more.

One

Two

Three

Too Many

You'll need some of this

Or this

Edited March 5, 2009 by BIGDAN

[wanna be drummer]

Bullshit! Its the Police and Government that violate Peoples "Rights" the most.

It proves MY point No, wrong again.

Police for the msot part protect our rights. I'm with you on government. That's why I don't vote for big government, the less power they have, the less they can infringe on our rights.

No, its societys problem in the end.

Then society will backlash the offenders and put them in jail. But you cannot put someone in jail unless they violate your rights or someone else's. Just becuase you yourself believe weed makes you a crazy person does not make it true.

The Koran is a good book, we could learn a lot of good moral values from it if we would only try a little harder.

To an extent, I agree. But just because it has good morals does not mean the government should live by it, as shown by Iran and Saudi Arabia. The Bible is a good book as well, but you cannot rule by it. You can teach through it and by all means I advise everyone in the world to read the New testament and learn from it, but I cannot conscientiously force them to obey its every word. Thats unethical.

They survived because they stayed in small communities where being anti-social was not tollerated. When you move on to Town/City sizes you need stronger law enforcement because anti-social types can hide within the masses. Both our countries have laws that are too weak and are not enforced strictly enough, too weak to deter these anti-social types, i'm only suggesting that there are other ways to act on these anti-social types, but as i have said before our Governments are too weak or have not the stomach to do what is needed to make the anti-social types either stop their bad behavior or go away for good. And this is for the good of society as a whole not for the personal pleasures of the individual. In my opinion .

What are anti-social types to you? This is where you start hitting gray areas and yet you are painting them black and white. I have a friend who has a near severe case of agoraphobia. He doesn't like to be in public long, doesn't like being surrounded by groups of people, etc. Most would call him "anti-social" because all he does all day is sit in his room and read about electronics and listen to music. Seriously, that's what he does 90% of his day. He doesn't drink or smoke under any circumstance. Is this anti-social enough for you that you'd through him in jail?

And weak Governments have only created worse, evil. (see US-GB)

The West also gives more to charity than anything else on the planet and that's a fact.

In any case, what this shows is that governments as a whole simply commit atrocities, so why you'd argue to make them stronger is beyond me.

You have lost me here!

There's far too many regulations and government intervention to consider our economy "free market".

The money to deal with Drug related offences and the Treatment of these people and the clear up of their mess, its all adds up to a large chunk of cash that could be spent better elseware.

So what? It's their money, let them spend it as they will as long as they arebn't hurting anyone. Buying a brand-new Plasma TV instead of a regular old one that works also adds up to a large chunk of cash that could be spent elsewhere. But neither of these examples is even near a direct reason we are facing the crisis that we are now.

[wanna be drummer]

If as a Parent I knowingly allow my child to abuse Drugs/Alcohol then I would be the first to admit that I didnt care about my child, I apply the same rules too my Government about its citizens.

Yes, you as a parent should definitely teach your kids to not abuse drugs or alcohol. But you should also teach them not to have orgies every night, which is perfectly legal but immoral if you ask me. Should the government ban multiple-people sex as well? Just becuase YOU believe weed is wrong or beer is wrong that does not give the government the right to just ban everything you see fit when there are many out there who see it as a means of chilling out after a long days work.

Have I?

Yes

Not you I might add, or People who take Alcohol or for that matter Drugs in General. But the ones who commit crime either as a result of them taking any of the above or to steal/rob to get the money to fund their habbit.

Well no kidding, I agree with you. But that applies to anyone who steals or robs for any purpose period. Just because a few drug users steal for their habit does not mean everyone does. We all drive cars which is legal but we all speed too. Should cars be illegal now? That would eliminate the source of the problem would it not?

Shades of gray: exactly why you can't fight the source.

In your opinion not mine, and not in the eyes of the law or society in general.

You've never met them, how the hell would you know?

And they are the ones i'm talking about, OK.

Again, how many do you know, pray tell? If you legalized drugs, you wouldn't have these fucktards running drugs anymore, you'd have a laid off Wal-Mart salesman doing it legally. Sounds more friendly does it not?

Wrong again, but keep on smoking the "DOPE" and you might find out one day that you are retarded.

I only smoke ocne in a really long while and only after a really tough day. Where's the harm in that? It doesn't decrease my intelligence so how I would I become stupider? You just made a claim based on nothing. No scientific evidence, nothing. Weed is not addictive, it doesn't kill anyone. Why should it be allowed to be illegal but beer perfectly acceptable?

I have a very good sense of right and wrong, what I dont have is an addled mind because of Alcohol or Drug overuse has you seem to have. I also have a wicked sense of humor that seems to go right over your head, gotcha.

I have never overused drugs, period. Not a single time. I've smoked weed maybe 10 times in my whole life. Yes, I drink at parties but I never get super-waster because I'm generally a calm, collected guy. You just made an insulting judgement of me based on NOTHING once again.

As far as a sense of humor goes, save it for elsewhere.

I've no doubt you think that way, thats because of your youth and inexperiance, when you have seen more of the world and not through the rose tinted glasses that you wear now your view of the world may change.

rose-tinted glasses? I am one of the most pessimistic people I know, where did I once in this wholoe conversation show signs of rose-tinted optimism??

[wanna be drummer]

I didnt know you were an underaged drinker, you really have shocked me, do your parents know? How ashamed they must be, and you a devout Catholic, how do you think Jesus feels now knowing that one of his flock is a Drinker? A law breaked, and you have the cheak to have a go at me, your going to Hell you know?

Where in the Bible does it say that drinking is a sin and why would my parents be mad? They know full well I drink and as long as it doesn't get out of control or effect my life they don't care. See, they're udnerstanding.

And sarcasm...really?

No not just drinkers, but drinking in the fuel of the Friday/Saturday night mayhem, you have a real problem when someone proves a point dont you, your immaturity really show up when you lose an arguement I would say.

You didn't prove a point to me. All you did was say that every Friday and Saturday, you think people unleash their problems on everyone else in an alcohol-fueled attack. How about some proof?

So we do what you say eh? We lower the price, or give it too the addicts for free and let everyone who wants too get shitfaced all day forever.

Yes I do. Social Darwinism. If all you want to do is get high and/or drunk all day, a stupid banning of drugs isn't going to stop you. Might as well collect some taxes on the habit and allow some people to make a legitimate profit off it.

Where did I say that? Are you getting a little too spaced out, you seem to be halosinating, are you self medicating again?

You don't have to say it. But based on your posts, you seem to believe that if we legalize drugs, everyone is going to want to start doing it.

So which is it? We were talking about Drugs. If you make them cheaper then people will be able to buy more, if you make them safer then people will take more to get the same effect therefore creating more Drug related overdoses which will result in either damage to their body or death. So its worse and less safe, it does not take a person with a PhD to work that one out, you self medicating again?

Same thing with alcohol. It's relatively cheap. Legalizing drugs would be the same as alcohol right now. it's the same damn thing. Some will get out of control, most will be perfectly fine.

The Government makes products safer through legislation, products are made better by the free market to sell more items and so create more profit, and so fulfil their criteria of worshiping their God, Mamon.

It's not in the market's best interest to make things unsafe. It's hard to advertise a product that people die using so the market regulates itself. The government rarely makes anything "more safe". What, they make companies put a label on the side of a soup can? Who actually reads those? In most cases, it's the private enterprises that make themselves better. One of the reasons foreign cars outsell American cars; ours are shit while theirs are great. Self-regulation > Gov't reg.

Not even through legislation? Just asking!!!

No not at all. What can the government pass as law to protect consumers in that situation? "You can't make things blow up?" Hell, we still make phones that can light on fire if you charge them the wrong way. There's no way the government can regulate that. They can try, but they fail, as they always do.

Heaven forbid I could do that!!!!!

Heaven knows you're trying

Wrong again, if you think I am attacking you or anyone else on here, then it is because you or they have a conflict of concience. You musy think you are doing wrong in the first place, my only attack is on the Dealers-Suppliers-Peddelers of Drugs and the misuse of Alcohol. If you want to chill out with a "Bud" or a "Joint" then i'm not your enemy, but if that leads you on to commit crime or to become anti-social, to make thinks worse for society, then i'm 100% attacking you and anybody else that does that, are we OK on that one now.

You just told me I had a drug-addled brain...that's an insult based on no facts, no matter how you try and spin it.

[Hotplant]

Hmm. Amsterdam is a perfect example of what happens.

HAPPY people.

[BIGDAN]

Hi Mr Drummer

It does not matter what I say you seem to have a smart answer to it all, I have nothing personal against you at all, I wish you well, if you want a drink or a joint I wont get on your back for it, I would even buy you a beer if we ever meet.

We seem to disagree on a lot, you agree with the sale of Drugs and I dont, lets leave it at that, we aint gonna resolve this on here by going backwards and forwards as we have done.

Regards, Danny

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Please tell how any law is going to stop this?

KB

[BIGDAN]

Hi all,

Please tell how any law is going to stop this?

KB

Hi Kev, nice to see you.

Laws only work when they are enforced enough, so no law in the US or GB is gonna work, I know that. I was just giving Mr Drummer hypothetical options of how they could work if our Governments wanted to impliment them, thats all just hypothetical options, not what I would want our Governments to do you understand.

Regards, Danny

[bigzepfan]

I saw an interesting take on marijuana and it being a gateway drug. the theory is that many younger kids start with marijuana and it leads to harder and heavier drugs. Where do they buy the marijuana they smoke? from drug dealers. quite often i would imagine that the drug dealers let their marijuana buyers know about other drugs that are available that are also "cool", "awesome" and all those great adjectives. maybe coke, maybe speed, meth, heroin and I don't know the current names of the drugs out there.

If marijuana was legal they would be buying it in a store. they would not have to come into contact with drug dealers in order to purchase the drug, therefore reducing the chance that they are offered "heavier" drugs. That part of it really does make sense. As well as the drug would be regulated and probably nowhere near the potency of your or my favorite "chronic". (wouldn't that part suck!).

The other part is growing hemp(low grade) for fuels, merchandise, etc. with the cigarette companies growing less(hopefully anyway) they could "fill the void" by growing hemp which could be used for a variety of very good uses.

[Dzldoc]

Hmm. Amsterdam is a perfect example of what happens.

HAPPY people.

Excerpt from some blog I ran across.

Happy people that do nothing?

Amsterdam is what I expected. This country is very proud of being liberal and tolerant; at times during the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, the Netherlands was the only place where intellectual thought of any integrity was done. The sanctuary given to minds like Spinoza and Descartes only confers honor to the Dutch.

However, this distinguished tradition of political sanctuary in a religiously bigoted and oppressive world has turned into a kind of legal loophole for the members of fringe communities. Drugs, while technically illegal, are tolerated here in small amounts. Hence, there is a large drug culture (a vegatory drug culture) and there are supposedly bad addiction problems and the resultant crime. It is almost as if all the hard core druggies of Western Europe and the U.S. flock to Amsterdam where there are no hassles and other similarly minded drug groupies. Many of these people are destitute and wasted away. In the Red Light District, one is constantly harassed by drug dealers (almost all entirely black, for some reason) on the street, "Hash, coke, ecstasy?" Prostitution is legal, and when one walks down the famous Red Light District one sees women sitting in lingerie by windows and if one likes what one sees, there is a door right to the side of the window. The door opens and the drapes are drawn across the window and business is transacted. Of course, it would be a rarity that a beautiful or desirable woman would be found in this vice sink. Most of the women are black, fat, ugly and cheap looking in the usual garish prostitute fashion. There are also various theme areas: all oriental women to one side, sado-masochism on another, etc.

The whole thing is somewhat degrading - to the men whose naked lust necessitates a visit to a prostitute to the women who sleep with men for the money which they need to survive. As I write this, I am sitting on a park bench in this district where I have spent the last hour watching and writing while waiting for my clothes to be washed. A despondent black man going through some kind of hysterical delirium (drug withdrawal?) is writhing in pain on the bench next to me, being half consoled and half assaulted by a friend. I have measured the amount of time between when the men enter the door next to the prostitute to when they leave and the drapes are thrown wide open again and she is open for business again. It averages about 15 minutes; I guess they dispense with the foreplay! This whole scene disgusts me after having spent a whole afternoon in it. To be fair, there are many little bars and restaurants here that are legitimate. It is funny: this Red Light District is so well known that it is a tourist attraction and tourists clutter the streets and alleys! I guess it is inevitable that a tolerant and permissive situation like that of the Netherlands would ultimately come to be abused and the people irresponsible with their extraordinary freedom.

This experiment in permissiveness is interesting. There is a whole lot of prostitution, drugs, and vice in the American cities but it is not out in the open (at least not like it is here). I can admire the lack of hypocrisy in Amsterdam but the public acknowledgement of the legitimacy of vice seems to encourage and add to the vice itself. From a bastion of political and intellectual freedom, Amsterdam has become a refuge for drug addicts and drug culture. Incredibly, this has prompted the tolerant Dutch into cracking down with the police! I would imagine that the Amsterdam police have a strange and dangerous beat here but they are the only cops (outside N. Ireland, which is different) I have seen yet who look like they mean business. It seems, even where they are legal or tolerated, that drugs breed violence. It is poignant that my brother, who has had bitter and damaging problems with drugs and alcohol, is most adamantly against the legalization of drugs. Sometimes I think back in the States we should legalize drugs and let all the fools who are going to kill themselves do it and be done with it. It is like that laboratory rat that can give itself drugs by hitting a bar in front of him and proceeds to do so continuously until it dies. Essentially, addicts are no different. There are no free lunches or miracle cures in this world and the transient pleasure from drugs is usually paid for in one way or another. I have no pity for today's lotus eaters who are so blithe to embark upon their Faustian agreement (pleasure for your soul). I am so tired of the argument that chemical dependency is a "medical disease" which discounts so much personally responsibility. People know the stuff is dangerous in the beginning but eiither refuse to believe it or gravitate towards it for exactly that reason. It is sad that people are so prone to abuse the extraordinary freedom they have here. And it is precisely because so many of my generation have been so damaged by drugs and alcohol that I have so little pity for them. The Dutch youth seem comfortable and liberal. This plus the foreign drug-types gives Amsterdam a 60's counter-culture feel. There are people sitting around stoned, playing guitars and singing in groups, being "free," socially concerned, etc. I am not really sure why but this really bugs me. This species of "cleverness" and moral aloofness with its condescension, naivete, and youthful ebullience. I am living in "the" druggie hostel and am enjoying it, despite the seaminess of it. One thing you can say for druggies is that they are generally mellow, leave you alone, and are easy to mix with. Most of the people go across the street to the "Grasshopper" coffee shop all the time and then return to the hostel stoned until the buzz wears off which means another visit to the Grasshopper, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. Many of my roommates have been in Amsterdam for a week or more and have not deviated from this routine in the slightest and have not ventured out at all to see metropolitan Amsterdam.

[Gegenschein]

[tofeee]

with the cigarette companies growing less(hopefully anyway) they could "fill the void" by growing hemp which could be used for a variety of very good uses.

what do you smoke

tobacco companies profit's are growing since the ban

war on alcohol war on homos war on tobacco war on high calories war on drugs war even on chocolate

wars wars and wars and more wars

shall we just eat letuce and corn and brokoli just like cows and nothing left for us to feel better

Edited March 28, 2009 by tofeee

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

Marijuana is going to soon be legalized because of the economy. It is starting in California but this will be a great cash crop. Especially to get us out of debt.