Where's the outrage?

[TypeO]

You may not like having to paying for universal healthcare, but I'm willing to bet that if you didn't work, it suddenly wouldn't seem like such a bad idea. Especially as so many of us are out of work. It's the one thing I am guaranteed to have.

So as long as you aren't paying for it, it's great.

[longdistancewinner]

So as long as you aren't paying for it, it's great.

Yeah, because that was exactly what I said...

[longdistancewinner]

Guarenteed to have until it is rationed or taken away.

I prefer rugged individualism which mandates earning a living and paying as I go on my own terms.

It'll never be taken away. The Government aren't that stupid. And even with the threat of some Conservatives MP wanting it scrapped, it'll never happen. Voicing that opinion is political suicide, never mind going through with it. Besides, the comments made by the Tory MP have caused such a huge outcry over here, he's lucky he's still has a job. And his leader certainly doesn't agree with him.

At the end of the day, 'rugged individualism' when I was 5 wouldn't pay to have my hearing sorted. Without the NHS I don't know how much I would be able to hear. If I help someone get better, who the fuck cares? Someone else out there did the same for me. What a terrible, socialist country I live in

[MisterMcLov1n]

Show me someone under 30 who isn't liberal, I'll show you someone without a heart.

Show me someone 30+ who isn't conservative, I'll show you someone without a brain.

Typical.

Did anyone notice that Glenn Beck completely changed his opinion on healthcare when he left CNN and started to work for FOX? The boy has no spine. And sadly most of my family takes life lessons from him.

It's not really the conservative part that bothers me, but it's the fact that they let themselves be run by any member of the media, no matter the political affiliation.

[TypeO]

Yeah, because that was exactly what I said...

That's certainly how it sounded.

"You may not like paying for it, but if you lose your job (no longer paying for it) you'd think it was a good idea."

[longdistancewinner]

That's certainly how it sounded.

"You may not like paying for it, but if you lose your job (no longer paying for it) you'd think it was a good idea."

My argument wasn't that it's only good for people out of work. My argument is that it's good for everyone. Everyone pays in; everyone gets treatment back. You don't want to pay for universal healthcare, but when you're out of work, what'll happen when you're ill? You'll need treatment. A legitimate question - if you're out of work in the U.S, who will treat you? The NHS is here regardless of your occupational status. And when you don't have the money to pay for top notch healthcare, you're still getting the same treatment as someone with a job.

Now, can I ask why so many of you seem so scared by that idea?

[Electrophile]

My argument wasn't that it's only good for people out of work. My argument is that it's good for everyone. Everyone pays in; everyone gets treatment back. You don't want to pay for universal healthcare, but when you're out of work, what'll happen when you're ill? You'll need treatment. A legitimate question - if you're out of work in the U.S, who will treat you? The NHS is here regardless of your occupational status. And when you don't have the money to pay for top notch healthcare, you're still getting the same treatment as someone with a job.

Now, can I ask why so many of you seem so scared by that idea?

I believe it goes for both public and private, but hospitals by law can't turn anyone away. If you are taken to the ER of the hospital closest to where you live, regardless of where it gets its funding and no matter if you have health insurance or not, they can't send you back out into the streets. They have to treat you.

Now, public hospitals would pay for your care out of tax dollars given to them by the county/state budget. If taxes have to be raised in order to meet that budget, then that's what happens. Private hospitals will bill you, I believe. I could be wrong on that, so someone here who knows more about how private hospitals work can correct me if I made a misstatement.

Personally, I'm out of work right now and cannot find a job. I have been on about a hundred different interviews in the last year, sent my resume to countless companies and have gotten nothing back. Target and Wal-Mart wouldn't even call me back. Too many heads of households need work more than I do, so those jobs are going to them, not people like me. I don't have health care because I can't afford my own policy and I'm too old to be placed on either of my parents'. What will happen to them if something happens to me? We can't afford for me to get sick, break a bone, get cancer, anything. We'd literally be put onto the street because there is no money. I need health care.

[Evster2012]

Typical.

Did anyone notice that Glenn Beck completely changed his opinion on healthcare when he left CNN and started to work for FOX? The boy has no spine. And sadly most of my family takes life lessons from him.

Who gives a fuck about Glenn Beck? I read his book. I've seen his show. Tim Conway could better serve us.

Yes. THAT Tim Conway!

[MisterMcLov1n]

Who gives a fuck about Glenn Beck? I read his book. I've seen his show. Tim Conway could better serve us.

Yes. THAT Tim Conway!

Way too many people care about him. That's what bother me. It's worse than Michael Jackson.

[longdistancewinner]

I believe it goes for both public and private, but hospitals by law can't turn anyone away. If you are taken to the ER of the hospital closest to where you live, regardless of where it gets its funding and no matter if you have health insurance or not, they can't send you back out into the streets. They have to treat you.

Now, public hospitals would pay for your care out of tax dollars given to them by the county/state budget. If taxes have to be raised in order to meet that budget, then that's what happens. Private hospitals will bill you, I believe. I could be wrong on that, so someone here who knows more about how private hospitals work can correct me if I made a misstatement.

Personally, I'm out of work right now and cannot find a job. I have been on about a hundred different interviews in the last year, sent my resume to countless companies and have gotten nothing back. Target and Wal-Mart wouldn't even call me back. Too many heads of households need work more than I do, so those jobs are going to them, not people like me. I don't have health care because I can't afford my own policy and I'm too old to be placed on either of my parents'. What will happen to them if something happens to me? We can't afford for me to get sick, break a bone, get cancer, anything. We'd literally be put onto the street because there is no money. I need health care.

Thanks for answering. Would the same rule apply if you needed to see a doctor non-urgently at your local medical center? Would you be treated, or turned away?

Personally, your situation is not that uncommon over here. In fact, I'm in the same situation. I can't get a job right now. However, if I got sick, I'd go to my local GP (even if I'd never met them before) and get a free consultation. If it was serious, I'd get a referrel to my local hospital. If I had the means, I'd go private. If I didn't, the maximum wait would be for just longer than a week (at least that's how long it took one of my friends), and then I'd get see a consultant at an NHS hospital - free. The hospital would diagnose me - for free. Treat me - for free. Operations - free. If I had an excemption card, prescriptions would be free, too. And as it is they cost around £8 - that's about, what, $16? Not that I would wish it on anyone, but, here you can afford to be ill. You'll always get healthcare. Even the drunks that get bloodied up in a punch up on a Friday night.

I genuinely can't understand how this is seen as such a bad thing. The UK would be lost without the NHS.

[MisterMcLov1n]

Thanks for answering. Would the same rule apply if you needed to see a doctor non-urgently at your local medical center? Would you be treated, or turned away?

Personally, your situation is not that uncommon over here. In fact, I'm in the same situation. I can't get a job right now. However, if I got sick, I'd go to my local GP (even if I'd never met them before) and get a free consultation. If it was serious, I'd get a referrel to my local hospital. If I had the means, I'd go private. If I didn't, the maximum wait would be for just longer than a week (at least that's how long it took one of my friends), and then I'd get see a consultant at an NHS hospital - free. The hospital would diagnose me - for free. Treat me - for free. Operations - free. If I had an excemption card, prescriptions would be free, too. And as it is they cost around £8 - that's about, what, $16? Not that I would wish it on anyone, but, here you can afford to be ill. You'll always get healthcare. Even the drunks that get bloodied up in a punch up on a Friday night.

I genuinely can't understand how this is seen as such a bad thing. The UK would be lost without the NHS.

that's the point. Lots of conservatives are used to not being too dependant on the government to go about their lives. They don't want the country to be "lost" without the help of the government.

different upbringings.

[Electrophile]

Thanks for answering. Would the same rule apply if you needed to see a doctor non-urgently at your local medical center? Would you be treated, or turned away?

By local medical center do you mean like a walk-in clinic? We have several of those around here, but they're tied to the Forsyth Medical Center, which is one of the main hospitals in this area.

I honestly couldn't tell you though, I am not that familiar with how hospitals/clinics operate on non-urgent cases.

[longdistancewinner]

that's the point. Lots of conservatives are used to not being too dependant on the government to go about their lives. They don't want the country to be "lost" without the help of the government.

different upbringings.

So, why don't they argue about Police or Firefighters? Surely, the country would've been lost a long time ago, if that's the argument they're going on? This is what I don't get. In my country something that is for everyone - and is a right - is a God send. In your's, it's seen as something almost criminal. I hope to God I never get sick, but if I do, at least I don't need to worry about paying for it. And there's always the choice to go private. If they can; they will. But they can still opt to go to an NHS hospital if they so wish.

[longdistancewinner]

By local medical center do you mean like a walk-in clinic? We have several of those around here, but they're tied to the Forsyth Medical Center, which is one of the main hospitals in this area.

I honestly couldn't tell you though, I am not that familiar with how hospitals/clinics operate on non-urgent cases.

I meant a general doctors office. You make an appointment, go see them, then see what they prescribe you, etc. If you have no insurance, can you still make an appointment with one of them? All ours are NHS (I think). There's additionally NHS walk-in clinics, which you don't need to make an appointment for. You just turn up and get treated.

[Electrophile]

So, why don't they argue about Police or Firefighters?

Because Rush O'Hannity and Glenn Beck and Michael Savage and Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich and some of the more unhinged Congresscritters on the right are not telling people to get angry about that. No, they want you to get your knickers knotted over universal health care. I'm sure this has made the rounds in more than one forum recently, but it was posted on another board I frequent and I think it hits the spot.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Some people just do not get it. Not because they don't want to, but because they can't. Health care would be just one of the MANY MANY MANY things the government would be in charge of, but I don't hear anyone bitching about those other things.

[MisterMcLov1n]

So, why don't they argue about Police or Firefighters? Surely, the country would've been lost a long time ago, if that's the argument they're going on? This is what I don't get. In my country something that is for everyone - and is a right - is a God send. In your's, it's seen as something almost criminal. I hope to God I never get sick, but if I do, at least I don't need to worry about paying for it. And there's always the choice to go private. If they can; they will. But they can still opt to go to an NHS hospital if they so wish.

I don't think they've ever thought of it that way before. Those have always been public services, and healthcare has always been privatized. It's called conservatism for a reason.

and that's a great quote electrophile, lol.

[Electrophile]

I meant a general doctors office. You make an appointment, go see them, then see what they prescribe you, etc. If you have no insurance, can you still make an appointment with one of them? All ours are NHS (I think). There's additionally NHS walk-in clinics, which you don't need to make an appointment for. You just turn up and get treated.

Good Lord, I haven't seen a general doctor's office in years. Most doctors operate out of hospitals (pardon the pun) around here.

[longdistancewinner]

Good Lord, I haven't seen a general doctor's office in years. Most doctors operate out of hospitals (pardon the pun) around here.

Really? Well, we call them health centers, but still, something like that should be a necessity. With so many things are supposedly risking our health, you'd think they'd up the ante on health facilities.

I remember a friend of my mother's hurt her ankle on a trip to Florida and she had to pay in excess of around $600 just to see a doctor and be told to take some parcetamol. Obscene.

Love the quote, though

[TypeO]

Personally, I'm out of work right now and cannot find a job. I have been on about a hundred different interviews in the last year, sent my resume to countless companies and have gotten nothing back. Target and Wal-Mart wouldn't even call me back. Too many heads of households need work more than I do, so those jobs are going to them, not people like me. I don't have health care because I can't afford my own policy and I'm too old to be placed on either of my parents'. What will happen to them if something happens to me? We can't afford for me to get sick, break a bone, get cancer, anything. We'd literally be put onto the street because there is no money. I need health care.

I certainly understand the need for healthcare for those who can't get it.

And that needs to be addressed.

I just don't think changing the entire system for over 85% of Americans to accommodate the remaining 15% is the way to accomplish it.

There should be a system developed, much like unemployment, to cover these circumstances.

But it shouldn't be forced on everyone.

And private option WILL BE eliminated eventually if this plan is passed.

Another problem for me is your medical records becoming available to the government.

Just like having bad credit can keep you from getting a job, imagine if employers could run a "medical viability" profile on you and discover you were being treated for depression or anxiety, or that you had been treated for an overdose. Or had a melanoma removed.

Not to mention it just doesn't make sense to be considering this type of monumental budget expenditure when we're still trying to get our economy back on track.

A business doesn't redesign it's whole building, add a new wing and refinish all the floors when sales have dropped to all-time lows for the past year and they're laying people off.

First they need to get the stock market back into double-digits, and unemployment closer to 6 or 7% than 10%.

EDIT: I've been saying "public option" when I meant "private option" - d'oh!

[Nathan]

^You see, TypeO... that is all anyone's talking about: A Public OPTION for those who can't afford private health care. That's all anybody, Obama included, wants.

No one wants to get rid of the private option. Seriously. Where do you people get these ideas? When, exactly, has Obama, or any pro-health care reform person, talked about getting rid of Private Health Care? No one has. We are asking for a Public Option for those who can't afford the Private Option. Nothing more.

[TypeO]

No one wants to get rid of the private option. Seriously. Where do you people get these ideas? When, exactly, has Obama, or any pro-health care reform person, talked about getting rid of Private Health Care? No one has.

No one?

Really?

You should pay more attention.

[Uncle Bill]

No one?

Really?

You should pay more attention.

[SteveAJones]

Some people just do not get it. Health care would be just one of the MANY MANY MANY things the government would be in charge of, but I don't hear anyone bitching about those other things.

Once again, you have shown you don't know the difference between promote (regulate) and ensure ("in charge of").

[cryingbluerain]

Where is the outrage that our news media has become a thin veneer of supposed objectivity barely hiding what has become a practically state-run propaganda machine?

So again I ask, are liberals so shallow as to only care about these issues when they are used AGAINST them? But it's OK if you happen to agree with the ideologies?

Do liberals actually adhere to principles, or just simply ideologies?

The "press" and the "media" do not post the DAILY "death count" like they did when Bush was President...The "press" and the "media" DON'T tug at the heartstrings of the American people with regard to how many "mothers will be without their sons" due to WAR in Afghanistan, BECAUSE Obama is President and it's SO (ahem) "historic"...

[electricmage]

No, they could never take over the world.... too stupid. But they are doing a lot of damage.

Obama is the very socialist that I warned everyone about a year ago. He is an elitist who surrounds himself with other elitists, and he doesn't give one damn about what you or I or anyone else thinks is right. Obama is seeking to "change" things according to the "community organizer playbook" AKA: Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals.

And you think Bush gave a shit? Quite the hypocrite you are.